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Code question

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sleek98

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I have my permit application in for my electrical runs, and want to run by a couple questions as the desk person doesnt know much and the inspectors are hit and miss. When I did my basement at the last house one guy told me to read the code when I asked a specific question, the other one gave me a work around that he would accept.

Have a few questions that I need to figure out. It looks like we use the NEC 2011 version.

Detached Garage that has its own 200 amp panel that has been inspected and signed off when the builder did the house and garage.

Plan is to run romex through the studs in a 24" high section of the wall 48" to 72" off the floor. The boxes will be at the bottom of the section and then I will cover the romex with plywood or osb.

I am needing to add boxes for 3 220v 30 amp hanging heaters. My thoughts are to run 10/2 romex through the studs then have the romex go into a metal box through a 1/2" knock out, then switch to mc cable to wire into the heater through a flat cover with a knockout. I believe this will get me around needing a GFCI breaker or outlet on these runs since it will be hardwired in and that is the perferred method of the heater manufacture.

Edit: MC cable doesnt meet the physical damage so I will have to switch to emt. Well that *****.

Would also like to confirm that the outlets need a gfci breaker as the first one in each line even if its 48" off the floor? I plan on having 4 lines, one on the east and west wall, and then splitting the back south wall into 2 lines.

I have the ceiling outlets not on a gfci breaker. Its a 20 amp line through 3 switches that control bank A and bank B of lights and then 3 ceiling fans. Those do not need a GFCI breaker since the outlets are on the 12' ceiling.

Thanks
Chris
 
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eddieK

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sleek98 said:
I have my permit application in for my electrical runs, and want to run by a couple questions as the desk person doesnt know much and the inspectors are hit and miss. When I did my basement at the last house one guy told me to read the code when I asked a specific question, the other one gave me a work around that he would accept.

Have a few questions that I need to figure out. It looks like we use the NEC 2011 version.

Detached Garage that has its own 200 amp panel that has been inspected and signed off when the builder did the house and garage.

Plan is to run romex through the studs in a 24" high section of the wall 48" to 72" off the floor. The boxes will be at the bottom of the section and then I will cover the romex with plywood or osb.

I am needing to add boxes for 3 220v 30 amp hanging heaters. My thoughts are to run 10/2 romex through the studs then have the romex go into a metal box through a 1/2" knock out, then switch to mc cable to wire into the heater through a flat cover with a knockout. I believe this will get me around needing a GFCI breaker or outlet on these runs since it will be hardwired in and that is the perferred method of the heater manufacture.

Would also like to confirm that the outlets need a gfci breaker as the first one in each line even if its 48" off the floor? I plan on having 4 lines, one on the east and west wall, and then splitting the back south wall into 2 lines.

I have the ceiling outlets not on a gfci breaker. Its a 20 amp line through 3 switches that control bank A and bank B of lights and then 3 ceiling fans. Those do not need a GFCI breaker since the outlets are on the 12' ceiling.

Thanks
Chris
Click to expand...

Check the manufacturers specs. Most of today's rectifying ignition systems will not operate on a GFCI circuit.
 
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sleek98

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eddieK said:
Check the manufacturers specs. Most of today's rectifying ignition systems will not operate on a GFCI circuit.
Click to expand...

I think this is why the manufacture wants the heaters hardwired in, which would eliminate the GFCI requirement, IF I am reading that correctly.

But I guess my true question is are sub 50 amp 220 outlets required to be GFCI protected or would that only be apart of the 2017 code?
 
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alfredeneuman

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sleek98 said:
Those do not need a GFCI breaker since the outlets are on the 12' ceiling.
Click to expand...

All 15 and 20 amp outlets are required to have GFI protection, regardless of the ceiling height.

You could use either a GFI breaker or a "blank face" (without the outlet part) GFI .
The blank face GFI must be readily accessible so it can't go on the ceiling.

50A 240V receptacles are not required to have GFI protection in the 2017 or any previous Codes.
 
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sleek98

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alfredeneuman said:
All 15 and 20 amp outlets are required to have GFI protection, regardless of the ceiling height.

You could use either a GFI breaker or a "blank face" (without the outlet part) GFI .
The blank face GFI must be readily accessible so it can't go on the ceiling.

50A 240V receptacles are not required to have GFI protection in the 2017 or any previous Codes.
Click to expand...

"GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible, such as a ceiling-mounted receptacle for a garage door opener."

Thats what I was getting the ceiling outlets do not need a GFCI from, but the difference might be that I am using it for LED shop lights and not a garage door opener. However If I do have to do those I would spring for the breaker on that one as it would be easier.

What about sub 50 amp 220v? I am debating running the lifts (20 amp) and (30 amp) heaters off plugs vs hart wiring them. I guess I can just flip off the lifts breakers so that the kids dont mess with them when I am not around.
 
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pattenp

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There are no NEC exceptions on gfci outlet requirements in a garage based on access. All 120V outlets need gfci protection, even ones on ceilings.
 
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Norcal

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sleek98 said:
Man it’s hot out there. All three heaters are now mc cable into the metal box and tied to the romex.

Tomorrow is running the ceiling fan lines through the attic. Here’s to a fun night in 115* attic.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
Click to expand...

Metal Clad & NM cable "Romex®" both require protection from physical damage.
 
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signcrafter

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I'm not an electrician but I've seen mc cable used as "whips" to things like water heaters, furnaces, and other things like that before both in residential and commercial buildings. Maybe it wasn't done to code?
 
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Norcal

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signcrafter said:
I'm not an electrician but I've seen mc cable used as "whips" to things like water heaters, furnaces, and other things like that before both in residential and commercial buildings. Maybe it wasn't done to code?
Click to expand...

If the equipment is not going to be beat up, the whip is pretty safe.
 
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alfredeneuman

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signcrafter said:
but I've seen mc cable used as "whips" to things like water heaters, furnaces, and other things like that before both in residential and commercial buildings. Maybe it wasn't done to code?
Click to expand...

If they're subject to any physical damage at all then no, they aren't done to Code
 
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Gummi Bear

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Subject to physical damage should be defined by zone. (Some articles define this, others do not, I’m looking at 424.12(A) and I don’t see anything defining physical damage in a residential garage)

If it is a ground mounted heater, it could be easily damaged

If it is hung higher on a wall, or on a ceiling, it is not likely to be damaged.

I’d put in a call to the local inspector, and get his interpretation before making any changes.



Here’s a note about GFCI protection in a garage. There used to be exceptions for freezer and opener outlets to not require GFCI.

ac0f00449f4585766ae437c4831af846.jpg






I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau
 
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sleek98

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Gummi Bear said:
Subject to physical damage should be defined by zone. (Some articles define this, others do not, I’m looking at 424.12(A) and I don’t see anything defining physical damage in a residential garage)

If it is a ground mounted heater, it could be easily damaged

If it is hung higher on a wall, or on a ceiling, it is not likely to be damaged.

I’d put in a call to the local inspector, and get his interpretation before making any changes.



Here’s a note about GFCI protection in a garage. There used to be exceptions for freezer and opener outlets to not require GFCI.

ac0f00449f4585766ae437c4831af846.jpg






I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau
Click to expand...


Thank you, I grabbed a gfci breaker for the lights, all the outlets are used by led lights but still easier to put it in than deal with a fail for that.

As for the heaters. They are hung 6 feet off the ground. One I know wont pass as it is in a normal path for walking and is a good reason to swap it out for a mini-split. The other two are higher up over tool boxes. I am going to swing by and see what they say, if they will pass it if I move the heater and line farther up say 7-8' then I will do that.
 
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sleek98

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grounded-b said:
sleek98 said:
Would this pass instead of the mc cable?
Use flexible metallic conduit, aka: "Greenfield"

It's a raceway, so you pull your conductors through it.

1/2" trade size is what you want.

A grounding conductor ( green wire) is needed.

Steve
Click to expand...

I have moved the heaters up to where the bottom of the heater is at 7.5 feet off the ground and I am using a flexable metal conduit to run the wiring through, L1, L2 and a green. The wall box is now 10 foot high so that should be good, as I can still reach the on off switch on the heater and the wiring is up out of the way.

If the factory on off switch is too high I can add a switch on the wall for them.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...ble-Pole-Switch-White-R62-03032-2WS/100356941


grounded-b said:
Where are you quoting this from?

Not the LATEST NEC codebook.

Steve
Click to expand...

****, thats 2002. That is the problem when you use Google to check, it brings up really old code glad I asked you guys.

I ended up taking the gfci breaker back and just putting an outlet in with the switches. (had a three gang box and decided to only do 2 banks of lights). So now power comes in the box to the gfci outlet, then the outlet feeds the 2 switches. All good now, the lights all turn off when you test the outlet.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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bjcouche

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Nobody mentioned tamper resistant outlets yet.... I can't remember if the TR requirement went in in 2011 or after... I know I had to have them in my garage when it was built 5 years ago. Even the ones mounted on the ceiling had to be tamper proof. In the 2017 code there were some exceptions made for not requiring tamper proof for outlets not readily accessible.... My inspector checked every outlet to ensure it was a TR type... I swear at those TR outlets every time I plug something in and have to wiggle and jam the plug in extra hard.
 
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sleek98

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Interesting. They didn’t put tr outlets in the attached garage when the house was built last year but I can swap them out just in case.

The box I grabbed for the ceiling boxes were the tr ones and I didn’t realize it.


Edit they did do tr outlets and I just didn’t notice. Thanks for the heads up

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
 
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