Wtf happened to my kapex?

[Grant Gunderson]

Was cutting a cedar 2x4 today to make a platform to install a new latch on my fence gate and half way through the first board the Saw starts smoking! Looked like a blue flame inside the vents as well.

Pretty disappointed as the saw is only a few years old and for the price it should last a lifetime! Especially since I’m just a hobbiest.

 

[The Cobbler]

That's some pricey magic smoke there.
I thought festool was indestructible

 

[Stuey]

Have you contacted Festool yet?

Maybe... sorry, I have no idea what could do that in a corded tool. No 2x4 of any wood material is going to overheat the motor on the first cut. How does the blade look?

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Have you contacted Festool yet?

No. Just happened. Going to go chat with the local dealer in the am. I’ve spent a damn fortune in there on green tools so hopefully they can help me get it resolved. Really surprised as that saw should go threw cedar like butter!!

 

[AA/FC]

You let the smoke out.....

 

[Git]

Unfortunately, this is pretty common with the Kapex, and Festool appears to be completely ignoring the situation... I see you have already posted on their forum, while you are there you can look through all the other Kapex Failure posts. Unless it is still under warranty, I think you will find the costs to repair to be over $500

This thread has been active for a while

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/the-life-span/

 

[Musicinabottle]

I bet something metal went in to the vent, like a dime or something like that.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Not possible.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Well I guess I’ll second guess the Festool equipment.

 

[FMC1959]

Was the blade pretty dull?

Do you cut a lot of softwood, like cedar? Soft/wet woods can create pitch on a blade...and it will cut like a very dull blade.

In either case, it shouldn't smoke the saw but if the 4 x 4 was wet, and the blade was not very sharp, it can bog down the motor, and possibly overheat it.

I am not a Festool expert, owning just 1 sander, but my impression is they are more finesse than brute strength, and don't stand up well in less than ideal conditions.

 

[Wamsutta]

Awesome pictures!

 

[scooby074]

Festool is way over-rated and overpriced compared to the "big 4" like Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee and dewalt.. Other than their vacs, Ive yet to see a trade using their tools.

Unfortunately youve just "discovered" the well known flaw in the Kapex. Lots of them burned up. Curious if you were running it through a vac because that seems to be what might be killing them (undervoltage), although festool wont confirm anything about the cause of the problem.

I understand that they *might* have increased the warranty on the motor to 5 years but I dont know. Ive read where festool has sold people motor rotors and other parts for DIY repair because it costs a fortune to send the tool back to the festool repair depot.

I hope you get this fixed under warranty. For the price, all festool should be bulletproof but unfortunately they arent. Check AvE's teardown on a festool tracksaw.

Good luck. Post over on the FOG and see what happens. Festool runs the site and sometimes theyve been known to be particularly aggressive with controlling the brand image, including deleting threads and posts.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Was the blade pretty dull?

Do you cut a lot of softwood, like cedar? Soft/wet woods can create pitch on a blade...and it will cut like a very dull blade.

In either case, it shouldn't smoke the saw but if the 4 x 4 was wet, and the blade was not very sharp, it can bog down the motor, and possibly overheat it.

I am not a Festool expert, owning just 1 sander, but my impression is they are more finesse than brute strength, and don't stand up well in less than ideal conditions.

Blade is sharp just put a new one in a few months ago. Was cutting a dry cedar 2x4. The saw should go threw soft wood like that like butter, and did upuntil the last cut.

 

[Skin]

Festool is way over-rated and overpriced compared to the "big 4" like Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee and dewalt.. Other than their vacs, Ive yet to see a trade using their tools.

Unfortunately youve just "discovered" the well known flaw in the Kapex. Lots of them burned up. Curious if you were running it through a vac because that seems to be what might be killing them (undervoltage), although festool wont confirm anything about the cause of the problem.

I understand that they *might* have increased the warranty on the motor to 5 years but I dont know. Ive read where festool has sold people motor rotors and other parts for DIY repair because it costs a fortune to send the tool back to the festool repair depot.

I hope you get this fixed under warranty. For the price, all festool should be bulletproof but unfortunately they arent. Check AvE's teardown on a festool tracksaw.

Good luck. Post over on the FOG and see what happens. Festool runs the site and sometimes theyve been known to be particularly aggressive with controlling the brand image, including deleting threads and posts.

Festool is second to none in dust collection. If my living was doing work in peoples homes i'd give them a damned close look for that reason alone.

AvE doesn't know what hes talking about a lot of the time and that track saw tear down is a good example of his ignorance. Whines about Plugit which is a Festool feature that hes ignorant about. Whines about plastic melting at temperatures well over what the motor windings would cook at. Whines about a lubricated bushing when its been an industry standard for little things like cranks and transmissions for decades. His hack job of removing the motor rotor was also kind of funny and sad.

But he spouts goofy gibberish and has a lot of clicks so must be an internet certified expert.

 

[Carquest]

Main reason I don't own one unfortunately. I own, and absolutely love, their cordless drills ,track saws, and vacuum. But read way too many instances of motor issues over at the Festool Owners Group forum.

 

[Trey T]

Festool is way over-rated and overpriced compared to the "big 4" like Makita, Bosch, Milwaukee and dewalt.. Other than their vacs, Ive yet to see a trade using their tools.

Unfortunately youve just "discovered" the well known flaw in the Kapex. Lots of them burned up. Curious if you were running it through a vac because that seems to be what might be killing them (undervoltage), although festool wont confirm anything about the cause of the problem.

I understand that they *might* have increased the warranty on the motor to 5 years but I dont know. Ive read where festool has sold people motor rotors and other parts for DIY repair because it costs a fortune to send the tool back to the festool repair depot.

I hope you get this fixed under warranty. For the price, all festool should be bulletproof but unfortunately they arent. Check AvE's teardown on a festool tracksaw.

Good luck. Post over on the FOG and see what happens. Festool runs the site and sometimes theyve been known to be particularly aggressive with controlling the brand image, including deleting threads and posts.

Well, let's be fair, they were innovative with the miter saw. Today you have choice like the Makita LS1019L @ 1/3 of the Kapex price. The Makita is about 10lbs heavier though

 

[FMC1959]

Festool is second to none in dust collection. If my living was doing work in peoples homes i'd give them a damned close look for that reason alone.......

This may be true, there are many that talk about their excellent dust collection. There are many that speak of their innovation, finely engineered German tools as well as other accolades.

But at the same time when there are many that have Kapex motor problems, then Festool does have a problem.

Yes they are pricey, but my guess is that is not why contractors do not use them. Many contractors in other fields have some of the priciest tools available, because they stand up to the rigors.... Festool probably falls into the category of finely crafted, finely engineered, but not meant for heavy duty or commercial use

To add to the OP's problem, Festool is of the stiff upper lip German's, like the the crusty high society and royal Brit's, that do not like to admit failures and believe their products "look down" at everything else.

As a good customer who has spent a lot on Festool, I hope they do something for the OP.

 

[Trey T]

This may be true, there are many that talk about their excellent dust collection. There are many that speak of their innovation, finely engineered German tools as well as other accolades.

But at the same time when there are many that have Kapex motor problems, then Festool does have a problem.

Yes they are pricey, but my guess is that is not why contractors do not use them. Many contractors in other fields have some of the priciest tools available, because they stand up to the rigors.... Festool probably falls into the category of finely crafted, finely engineered, but not meant for heavy duty or commercial use

To add to the OP's problem, Festool is of the stiff upper lip German's, like the the crusty high society and royal Brit's, that do not like to admit failures and believe their products "look down" at everything else.

As a good customer who has spent a lot on Festool, I hope they do something for the OP.

WTF ... Lol ... too much, man .... just too much

 

[tarbellb]

Its a well know manufacture defect plaguing Kapex saws for years now.

Festool has yet to acknowledge this issue.

 

[Trey T]

^that's true but the failure rate is likely very low, right? like 20%? Porsche 911 has issue issue with their engine prior to 2009 but the failure rate was reported under 20%, but it was a well-known problem and they never had any TSB or recall.

When you buy low-mass production brands like Festool (or Porsche), it's easier for manufacturers to sweep the problems under the rug than addressing the problem. I highly doubt it's a German thing, it's universal thing.

 

[alinc100]

This may be true, there are many that talk about their excellent dust collection. There are many that speak of their innovation, finely engineered German tools as well as other accolades.

But at the same time when there are many that have Kapex motor problems, then Festool does have a problem.

Yes they are pricey, but my guess is that is not why contractors do not use them. Many contractors in other fields have some of the priciest tools available, because they stand up to the rigors.... Festool probably falls into the category of finely crafted, finely engineered, but not meant for heavy duty or commercial use

To add to the OP's problem, Festool is of the stiff upper lip German's, like the the crusty high society and royal Brit's, that do not like to admit failures and believe their products "look down" at everything else.

As a good customer who has spent a lot on Festool, I hope they do something for the OP.

So you believe Festool is marketed towards homeowners and hobbyists? That's some funny sh#t right there!!!

 

[fowldarr]

That's some scary stuff based on the price paid. I run an old Ryobi that I've had for probably 20 years, it cuts straight, has cut all kinds of wood (even some wet stuff when I had no choice), I keep it clean and replace the blade when needed, it's never even tried to overheat on me.

I hope that they make it right for you, I value customer service very highly and if they refuse it will likely impact my willingness to buy their tools in the future.

 

[rq375]

To add to the OP's problem, Festool is of the stiff upper lip German's, like the the crusty high society and royal Brit's, that do not like to admit failures and believe their products "look down" at everything else.

Festool, now with Lucas electronics...

 

[Git]

Festool is second to none in dust collection. If my living was doing work in peoples homes i'd give them a damned close look for that reason alone.

I would disagree with that

Just take a look at Mirka. Although I own several Festool Sanders, the Mirka Ceros is the best sander I have ever owned. AND, take a look at Mirka's sandpaper - Abranet. You don't have to fiddle around trying to line up holes, Abranet sandpaper is a mesh

Also, Bosch has come a long way and I would put my half sheet Bosch sander up against Festool any day. Festool was probably the first big company to stress dust collection, because here in the United States, nobody really cared at the time. Now they do

 

[Git]

I hope that they make it right for you, I value customer service very highly and if they refuse it will likely impact my willingness to buy their tools in the future.

Tell that to the guy that was using a Festool jigsaw to cut an opening in a wooden countertop for a sink. He accidentally hit a screw and trashed the jigsaw. He sent it in under warranty and they DECLINED to cover it because he was not using a Festool Jig Saw blade.... The cost of the repairs were more than what he paid for the jig saw to begin with

 

[dogdog]

This may be true, there are many that talk about their excellent dust collection. There are many that speak of their innovation, finely engineered German tools as well as other accolades.

But at the same time when there are many that have Kapex motor problems, then Festool does have a problem.

Yes they are pricey, but my guess is that is not why contractors do not use them. Many contractors in other fields have some of the priciest tools available, because they stand up to the rigors.... Festool probably falls into the category of finely crafted, finely engineered, but not meant for heavy duty or commercial use

To add to the OP's problem, Festool is of the stiff upper lip German's, like the the crusty high society and royal Brit's, that do not like to admit failures and believe their products "look down" at everything else.

As a good customer who has spent a lot on Festool, I hope they do something for the OP.

LOL.... ouch. tooth hurts.

Festool doesn't have a problem, the problem is you.....

 

[catron44]

I'll jump in here because I've had experience with the warranty process. Our local dealer is Woodcraft. We had a track saw that wouldn't turn on and it was almost 3 years old. The warranty on that saw and at the time (don't know what it is now) was 3 years. Woodcraft sent the saw off to Festool and we had it back in a week or so good as new. I wouldn't panic until you talk with your dealer.

I'm personally not a fan of the kapex because I prefer the D-handle Dewalt Chop saws.

 

[L.Cheapo]

Awesome pictures!

x2. It's rare to actually capture the exact moment of the magic smoke being let out, but there it is.

Bravo, OP!

 

[FMC1959]

So you believe Festool is marketed towards homeowners and hobbyists? That's some funny sh#t right there!!!

Not with their prices, no, they are marketed to the serious woodworker/cabinetmaker and even small professional woodworking shops.

When I think of general contractors where you have a team of 5-7 guys, as an example, where one guy is making cuts most of the day, I don't believe Festool can hang with Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch & Dewalt.

Will they outperform the big 4? In many aspects they have nice features which make them better, which is why many will pay the price for them.

Just my 2 cents, not a Festool lover or hater.

 

[FMC1959]

LOL.... ouch. tooth hurts.

Festool doesn't have a problem, the problem is you.....

Again, not a Festool expert, but your response to my comments would indicate you are a Festool expert, or a big fan of Festool...sorry to have hurt your feelings, just giving my opinion.

Festool, when compared to other tool companies, are more pompous and arrogant.

Every year they have their 10-15% price hike, they actually advertise to buy products before the "new" prices take effect.

They make many tools as proprietary as possible to have users only use their consumables.

And they have many particular clauses to void warranties that other companies do not have.

So compared to the others, I personally find they are a but "uppity".

Sorry if this offends you.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

x2. It's rare to actually capture the exact moment of the magic smoke being let out, but there it is.

Bravo, OP!

Well, I am a photographer by trade... you can check my "real" images out here: www.grantgunderson.com

 

[dogdog]

Again, not a Festool expert, but your response to my comments would indicate you are a Festool expert, or a big fan of Festool...sorry to have hurt your feelings, just giving my opinion.

Festool, when compared to other tool companies, are more pompous and arrogant.

Every year they have their 10-15% price hike, they actually advertise to buy products before the "new" prices take effect.

They make many tools as proprietary as possible to have users only use their consumables.

And they have many particular clauses to void warranties that other companies do not have.

So compared to the others, I personally find they are a but "uppity".

Sorry if this offends you.

I just use tools to do my job/work/task, I don't care about COO, just good tool/bad tool/and the right tool.... and I don't own any Festool.... I can't be **** hurt from you comment.

 

[dogdog]

Well, I am a photographer by trade... you can check my "real" images out here: www.grantgunderson.com

hmmmm how did you hide that midget smoking inside that cover ?

 

[scooby074]

Well, let's be fair, they were innovative with the miter saw. Today you have choice like the Makita LS1019L @ 1/3 of the Kapex price. The Makita is about 10lbs heavier though

Funny you mention the Makita. I still have my LS1013 from way back in like 2003. Used all the time. Still accurate. Still has the original smoke inside.

Everybody says how the kapex was a game changer but I dont see it?? Maybe it has better dust collection but thats about it. Ive demoed a kapex and frankly the dust collection is overrated. I still generated dust, maybe 2/3 as much as my Makita, but regardless its only sawdust! Youre going to be stuck cleaning up sawdust in the area of a mitresaw no matter what brand tool you use IMHO.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

hmmmm how did you hide that midget smoking inside that cover ?

A midget would be more fun.... that there was my crisp hard earned dollar bills going up in smoke!

 

[techieman33]

I put Festool in the same category as Dyson. A handful of features that the normal brands don't have, a whole lot of marketing ****, and a bigger price tag so you can brag to your friends about how much you paid for your cool new gizmo.

 

[Finky198]

Well, I am a photographer by trade... you can check my "real" images out here: www.grantgunderson.com

Impressive portfolio...

Love the skiing and mtn biking pics

 

[Git]

Here is a question

A Kapex currently cost about $1,500 and comes with a 3-year warranty

Let's say you purchased one about 2 1/2 years ago and you had this happen (which appears to be pretty common). You send the saw in for repairs, it is covered under warranty, yada yada yada and they send it back to you

Now, what do you do with it? Try to sell it while it is still in good condition or roll the dice and keep it - hoping the same thing doesn't happen 2 years down the road when it would definitely be out of warranty??? (The armature and coil usually need to be replaced along with some other parts)

 

[Stuey]

Well, I am a photographer by trade... you can check my "real" images out here: www.grantgunderson.com

Very nice work!!!

 

[sweet victory]

^that's true but the failure rate is likely very low, right? like 20%? Porsche 911 has issue issue with their engine prior to 2009 but the failure rate was reported under 20%, but it was a well-known problem and they never had any TSB or recall.

When you buy low-mass production brands like Festool (or Porsche), it's easier for manufacturers to sweep the problems under the rug than addressing the problem. I highly doubt it's a German thing, it's universal thing.

I don't think the IMS issue in the M96 is as a wide spread problem as fear mongers on rennlist make it out to be. Only a small fraction of people of p-car owners even know about the forum, much less the IMS issue. It's like a help line...the only people reporting issues are well...people with issues. That can really be said for any brand or product line. If there are 120 festool threads are about this particular failure, and over 280,000 were sold, would you consider that wide spread?