Info requested: York or Goodman brhs0421cdg heat pump

[bored350]

I'm purchasing a house (closing in 2 weeks or less) that has a heat pump. Home inspection was completed today and the inspector noted the following:
Heat Pump, dated 2005 - Note; this unit should be serviced and cleaned by an HVAC professional. – The fan seems to have an imbalance causing this unit to vibrate while it’s operating. The larger refrigerant line is not very cool to the touch when the unit is running. This unit is not cooling as it should with 71 degree air average from the supply vents while 82 degree air is entering the return. Ambient temperature 103°

My questions are as follows:
How many tons is this unit?
What should my supply vent temp be?
What should I pay attention to when investigating the alleged vibration besides the obvious damage or bad motor bearing?

I can't check line pressure's unless I pick up an adapter for my R134a manifold set so I'll be at the mercy of the repair companies unless I can get in touch with a former coworker that did ac work.


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[Done That]

I'm guessing 3.5 ton, 036 is typically a three ton and 048 is 4 ton.

Some units just aren't even installed level on a pad and that can create rattles.

Your supply/ return split at 11 degrees is low, a ballpark of 15-20+ is more like it, based on your observation of suction line temp it's possibly low on charge.

It is a York fyi.

 

[bored350]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if it was a York or Goodman, the furnace is noted as a Goodman but the condenser p/n came back as a York.

Looking around, I haven't been able to find specifics on what I would need to adapt my R134a manifold set to connect to the R22 lines, can you point me to the correct fittings I need? Spoke with my old co-worker last night and he won't be able to help out for at least 6 weeks due to deployment so I'd like to get a good picture of what's going on before I call a service company. It's been over 100° here lately so I'm sure any service will be a premium cost.

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[gc427]

Hire a professional. You need to be EPA certified in order to purchase the R22 refrigerant you will need.

 

[bored350]

I already have a 30lb R22 on hand.

Hire a professional. You need to be EPA certified in order to purchase the R22 refrigerant you will need.

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[EOC_Jason]

R22 is pretty forgiving when charging. If you have a hose you can connect between the bottle and condenser you can just add a little at a time till your suction line is sweating and you can check your delta-t inside and just get it close so its cooling better... Then when you get a proper set of gauges you can charge it properly.

Or maybe check some pawn shops around town?

I would bet money you have a leak at your evaporator coil though...

 

[bored350]

I appreciate the input, but I haven't communicated my intentions well. I fully intend to have a professional come out and repair the leak if there is one and then properly charge the system afterwards, unless I cannot get a fair price or honest diagnosis. I'd like to investigate the issue(s) myself before calling the professionals in so I don't get taken for a ride. I have not had good experiences with the local "pros" in the past in various fields, so I have often ended up doing various repairs/upgrades myself.

The little old widow across the street just last week had 2 different plumbers tell her that she needed a new water heater when her 3 year old Marathon stopped working and tried to sell her a heater and installation of a metal unit for around $1200 and $1325 respectively. When she shared this with my wife who then volunteered my help, I broke out my meter, diagnosed the tripped breaker to be caused by a bad heating element and changed the burnt out heating element with a titanium upgraded unit (we have hard water here that is tough on heating elements) for $56 and a glass of iced tea. I'd like to avoid that kind of scenario if possible and I'd like a repaired unit rather than a bandaided unit that will keep me up worrying at night. If I don't get a fair estimate, then I'll evacuate the system and recharge it myself. I have a digital gauge set, scale and 6cfm dual stage vacuum pump that I use when I do automotive work.

R22 is pretty forgiving when charging. If you have a hose you can connect between the bottle and condenser you can just add a little at a time till your suction line is sweating and you can check your delta-t inside and just get it close so its cooling better... Then when you get a proper set of gauges you can charge it properly.

Or maybe check some pawn shops around town?

I would bet money you have a leak at your evaporator coil though...

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[PelicanPines]

Don't know of an adapter. I have a proper R22/410 set of gauges. With the temp you are blowing ... it sounds like you need a charge... the R22, here anyway, is about $100 a pound, retail... nice gold mine you have. Wish I was closer... I'd hook you up with my meter.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You shouldn't be concerned if you're being taken for a ride. The seller should make it good or deduct the final amount of repairs from the selling price upon satisfactory completion.

Tommy

 

[samss]

+1 what Tommy said.
I'll add, the only way to know if the condenser is clean is if you clean it. Plenty of times I've seen condensers that looked clean only to have a mud river come out when I cleaned it.

 

[bored350]

This is a HUD property, sold as is. I appreciate your POV however I have to be concerned since any repairs are coming out of my pocket.

Thanks samss, that is sound advice.

You shouldn't be concerned if you're being taken for a ride. The seller should make it good or deduct the final amount of repairs from the selling price upon satisfactory completion.

Tommy

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[PelicanPines]

If you have the R22... call a hvac service and tell them you want them to come charge your system , for now , with your tank. They should just charge a service call.

If your system is leaking... it's hard to say what a good fix will be. But for now... get them to use your tank to top it off. Two, three pounds would be a lot... needs to be on a proper set of gauges...

 

[firebirdparts]

Adapters in the direction you want are not readily available. What you want is an "old" set of a/c gauges. R22 and R12 used the same fittings.

Easy to find used. Cheap and good and made in the USA. If you can find new replacement rubber hoses, that would be awesome, but I suppose there is not much market for them any more.

 

[bobbyjean]

condenser from 2005,ahu isnt a match....you have some negotiating to do ....sure you could grab a cheap manifold or adapter and add charge...but why not work with seller and replace unit to a matched set ...then ....if installed correctly...you will have no trouble's....
the rattling at ahu sounds like it could be a blower wheel issue,chances are it was changed out and is damaged....
good luck with new home

 

[yeldogt]

If they are different manufactures -- one of them failed and the cheapest thing was to get something to replace.

With a mismatched system it's unlikely you will get good performance for your $$

Is it only a HP - no furnace ?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

This is a HUD property, sold as is. I appreciate your POV however I have to be concerned since any repairs are coming out of my pocket.

That is a completely different animal. Thanks for clarifying for me.

Tommy

 

[bored350]

If they are different manufactures -- one of them failed and the cheapest thing was to get something to replace.

With a mismatched system it's unlikely you will get good performance for your $$

Is it only a HP - no furnace ?

The furnace as mentioned is a Goodman; it was replaced in 2012. The air handler and compressor is original to the house and are dated '05. Once we close, I have some very specific items that must be addressed before we can move in as well as a few cosmetic concerns. If the heat pump needs to be replaced I will replace it but for now, I'd like to repair and get it working properly if at all possible. I'm not one for throwing good money into bad so just charging it to get through the season vs. replacing the system if it needs to be replaced; I'd rather just replace it now and be done with it. What I don't want is a leaking line and a system that's low on refrigerant becoming 5-10k rather than getting a proper repair.

This was an unplanned purchase so I'll be carrying 2 mortgages until my current house sells since it needs a few things done before listing. Adding a new system I to the mix is not in the budget at this time and I'm not one to use credit cards in a non emergency situation. Hope that clarifies for everyone.

One of the members in my area has been kind enough to loan me a gauge set, once our schedules up. I'll let everyone know how things turn out.

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[yeldogt]

A furnace is typically oil or gas with the blower -- the AC compressor (condenser) is outside and the AC's coil in on the end of the furnace (top or bottom depending on air flow)

An air handler typically has no furnace and is used for straight AC or when using a heat pump. They can typically have resistance coil for heat as well. The blower and coil can be one unit - or it can be two parts about the same size.

My guess is you don't have both an air handler and a furnace

 

[bored350]

A furnace is typically oil or gas with the blower -- the AC compressor (condenser) is outside and the AC's coil in on the end of the furnace (top or bottom depending on air flow)

An air handler typically has no furnace and is used for straight AC or when using a heat pump. They can typically have resistance could for heat as well. The blower and coil can be one unit - or it can be two parts about the same size.

My guess is you don't have both an air handler and a furnace

Thanks for going through the nomenclature. I personally don't have experience with heat pumps and thought it odd that the inspector referenced a furnace. There is no oil or gas at this property or the rest of it's dead end street so I called the inspector for clarification. What he referred to as the furnace in the inspection report is actually the resistance coil which is a separate unit from the blower. I was TDY during the inspection so my wife had to stand in for me and she didn't go into the attic.

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[Done That]

In my experience:

Fan Coil = Air Handler = Electric Furnace ...all depends on who you are talking to.

 

[yeldogt]

The older heat pumps did not have the low temp capacity of the newer models .. if you needed heat at low temps something else had to be used. An electric heat coil was/is a cheap solution tot he problem and works as long as the need is infrequent.

It was common for builders to install heat pumps w/ coils in an area of the country where it should have been a furnace. This was the chap way out as they did not have to pay the electric after the sale.

If it's a matched York HP system -- it's worth trying to see what the problem is ..and fixing. Sometimes it's better to live in a house for a bit to understand what's up prior to putting in new and being wrong.

 

[bored350]

If it's a matched York HP system -- it's worth trying to see what the problem is ..and fixing. Sometimes it's better to live in a house for a bit to understand what's up prior to putting in new and being wrong.

My thoughts exactly plus it will give me time to evaluate if other options are feasable. I'll admit that I am surprised by the estimated cost of replacement.

Do heat pumps tend to dehumidify the air better than traditional air conditioning units when sized properly or are they about equal?


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[Done That]

Do heat pumps tend to dehumidify the air better than traditional air conditioning units when sized properly or are they about equal?


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For equivalent BTUh's of cooling capacity there really is no difference between HP and straight AC for dehum.