Lengthy post for a newbie about codes inspection/ remodeling

[MeanYellowZ]

This is very lengthy and I apologize but appreciate anyone taking the time to read through this stuff and offer advice. Also, this is my first post here. Very active on many other forums, just new to this one.



Alright guys, I need some advice here on a huge project I have found myself in the middle of. First off I want to make a few points:

I am in no mean trying to offend or piss off any of you that own/ work at any construction/ electrical/ plumbing operations. I know that some of my thoughts can/ may go against what puts food on your table/ etc and that is not my intent.

I am in Iowa, so I know some of the specifics may be different than your state but I'm sure some of the basics will still apply.

I am relatively good at some areas of automotive work/ wiring, etc, but I am an absolute MESS at anything home related. Building a birdhouse may very well be over my personal abilities

Lastly, I have nowhere near the amount of money needed to make all of the work happen that needs done, so I have to pick and choose where money MUST be spent and get by on the stuff I can get by on.

That said, what I have going on here is a building I just acquired. This was originally a fire station, all brick, built in 1905. Pretty basic firestation type of layout, two floors, roughly 25x60, main door for firetruck at one end has been walled off inside. In the 70's a block 42x60 flat roof shop was added to the east side of the building, this will be my shop for my business. The main building is oozing with neat OLD charm including a killer spiral staircase among other things. Now onto the mechanicals - There is a main 140k HVAC unit in the shop that feeds the firestation side. Currently it is only heating the lower level. There are other heaters that heat the shop side. The building has been upgraded to 200 amp service, feeding the downstairs of the firestation side and feeding the shop.
Basically where all the work is needed is in the upstairs of the firestation. originally it consisted of a large room where the fireman slept (still has the provision and hinge floor opening for the brass pole ), a bathroom, a locker room and a large 24x25 kitchen. This whole area hasn't been used since the 50's when it ceased being a firestation. Since then it has been some electronics businesses and the upstairs was walled off. My plan is to turn the upstairs into a nice 1500' loft/ apartment.
The plan is to kind of treat it as new construction upstairs, just gut it and start new. New water needs run upstairs to the locker room, which is becoming the laundry/ utility room. A hot water heater will be there, and distribute new water lines from there to the laundry/ bath kitchen. There is currently a 60 amp box already up there as previous tenants must have thought the same idea at one time. My first debate is to either run that and be done with it, only issue was I was not wanting to have to run gas upstairs and thought about running an electric stove/ dryer/ water heater. It doesn't sound like this is gonna work off a 60 amp. Alternative is to have a 100amp service dropped in just for the outside.
This is where I start running into cans of worms. I'm not trying to do this whole thing with no permits and completely illegally, but on the other hand I know there are things I can get away with here and there. Obviously to drop in a service I have to have a licensed electrician come set that up and have it inspected before the power company will drop the line. At this point with an inspector inside, he would have to be blind to not notice the shambles everywhere.

Now onto some of my questions....

Do I have to have an actual "company" do the work to have it pass inspection/ permit, etc or just a licensed person?? For instance I have a good friend who is a licensed electrician for a company and I asked about having them give me an estimate and he said he would just do the job himself. I realize this would probably not be insured bonded/ etc, but if he could do the work and is licensed and the permit/ inspection process passes, that would have to do.

Next, the answer to my last question might answer this one, but I just wonder if the same would apply for the plumbing? This is the one that is hurting the most. I have gotten "buddy" estimates from actual companies in the $5k range for running 30 feet of copper pipe in pretty easy to get to place. I have had side guys look at it and quote me $200 and a case of beer to do the same thing. This is one that's gonna kill me. I wonder if I should have these pipes run now and just say they were that way when I bought the building and have it done before the first inspector comes for the electrical, or if that just won't work out.

Other than that are just basic permit questions. Obviously I have covered plumbing and electrical. Do you get permits for basic construction like the new drywall etc? Permit for HVAC needed to add a couple vents and lower a cold air return? Permit for replacing windows? Does this more basic work need to be done by licensed people/ companies also??

I said that I have very little knowledge on this, but rest assured i won't be doing in important work myself. I have many friends, both electrical guys in training and buddies that can do plumbing etc. I am coordinating and doing basics like drywall etc. Things like the new windows will be done in the springtime by professionals.

If you made it through all this I appreciate it and any response. I do have one more thing to throw in the loop here. My house has been sold and I know longer own it in 9 days and will be staying in this building. I don't have any other choices other than a hotel or something. There are other areas I can setup for bed and other bathrooms, but no shower or hot water. I am thinking truck stop shower or a YMCA membership for a while...man...life is gonna be fun. Bit off more than we could chew?...yup - so you don't even have to tell me


Thanks!

 

[kwb]

It will most likely depend on zoning on if you can do the work, and to what standards it needs to be done.

Since you mention part of the building will be your business I am guessing that it is commercial zoning of some sort. Not sure how this plays into an accessory living unit on the same property but hunch is that it will require all electrical in conduit, and by people that have cards saying they can work on such stuff.

 

[kvom]

Here is Georgia a homeowner can be his own general contractor and do as much or little of the actual work as he wants. I still had to comply with code and inspections.

One issue you may well encounter is fire protection between living and working areas. With my attached garage I needed the thicker fire resistant drywall on all walls and ceilings that intersected living areas and stairwells.

For plumbing consider running PEX instead of copper for potable water lines. Much easier to install and cheaper than copper. Use PVC for waste water.

In my locale there are separate inspectors for electrical, plumbing, framing, etc.

Whether you can legally live in the building as/is is another issue.

 

[Falcon67]

Home type reno might not be strictly applicable to your situation, but from 2000 miles away I'm thinking that plumbing is your largest problem. The sparky friend should be able to do what you need and if he's licensed, then a job is a job to the inspectors.They don't know/care if you paid $10,000 or a case of Falstaff as long as it meets the local codes (and that usually involves some level of license worker at least overseeing the job).

Running water pipes is not that big a deal, but drain/waste/vent IS a BIG DEAL and if not done right will get you nothing but trouble AND maybe a "red tag" on the work. You might budget to just get that done, especially if you are not familiar with the intricacies of venting. You can certainly learn - I did - but for a large living space with several waste connections there's plenty of planning to do. So many fixtures on such size pipe, venting routed above flood level of fixtures, drain slopes, etc, etc, etc.

Lost of people live in commercial areas (downtown apartments) but you'll need to clear with the locals that its OK. Just use the line from "Officer and a Gentelman" - "I got nowhere else to go!!!"

I would start at the local permit office - new businesses bring in city revenue in business taxes and sales taxes, so it's in their best interest to get help you get up and going. And as "Mike" says - remember codes are minimum requirements.

Sounds like you have a cool building to work with, post some pics when you get a chance.

 

[Joel 67]

I would call my local inspector with specific questions. They are not there to cause issues but rather ensure the work is done to a minimum safe standard. Sometimes that causes problems when the work is not done to that standard. Having this info going in makes things much simpler.

Around here, you just call the building dept. The inspector does not ask your name, etc. unless you are calling about a project you already pulled permits for. Instead, they try to answer any questions you have about "a project I am considering, but trying to decide if it is worth even trying." When you phrase it like that there is less suspicion you are trying to pull something over on them.

 

[W-Cummins]

Here in Iowa they are now starting a state wide licensing for electricians. This will effect the areas that didn't have any code enforcement for electrical installations. Like other posters have pointed out you can in most places perform your own work on your personal residence. This place sounds more like a commercial location and you can not do the electrical work there. Also your licensed friend needs to be a Master electrician to pull the permits most places in Iowa, and the local jurisdictions normally require him to be insured and have them listed on the insurance. William.....

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If the spiral staircase is the only access to the upper level, you will have to install a code compatible set of ordinary stairs somewhere. International Building Codes will not allow a spiral staircase as the only source of ingress/egress to a living area.

You will need fire doors and fire walls to separate the living area from the rest of it, or install a sprinkler system.

As for living there, it depends on zoning of the property and local codes.

Charles

 

[little d]

+1 on talking to the inspectors. beileve it or not, these guys arnt there to make your life hell, most realy help out. ive worked from mo to texas, and ive found out that as long as your up front with them, they will try to bend over backwards to work with ya. with that said, there are the ocational *****, but few and far in between.
i'd sugest that you spend a coupla hours laying out what your wanting to do on paper(it doesent have to be a pro bluprint). then call and make a app. with them, set down and go over everything. tell them what your budget is, what your wanting to do your self, ect... they will tell ya what you can and cant do and might even have sugestions for ya that might save ya some money, i know they have helped me on several jobs!
good luck, and i'd personly like to see pics of what your working on! my wife and i re did a bar that was built in 1860, brick wall, ect..., i love this kinda work!

 

[mad57]

if you have no place to go might wanna keep it on the hush about living there until you find out if its legal to sleep there. hotel cost will put you more in the red ..thats money you can use to finish this project good luck and post pics when you can...oh a p.s. my code guy in my town is a crooked *****...only tell them what they need to know

 

[ddawg16]

First off.....Welcome....

Second....WE WANT PICTURES.....your place sounds like a dream....way cool...

Third.....Just like the guys above said.....talk to the inspector....the inspectors in my county have more than paid for the cost of the permits....they are glad to answer questions....they don't care your working on a firestation....just tell them you have a two story structure and what you want to do...they will tell you what you need, can and can't do....

Once you have that info you can move forward with your plans....

WE WANT PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bill K]

I agree with the above posters, 1st call to your inspection code offices and have a chat. If you find your not able to live in the building until you have a CO, certificate of occupancy you could always pick up a cheap camper then resell it.

 

[MeanYellowZ]

I appreciate the insight and welcome any other comments. I plan on making a build/ remodel thread in a while and will take pics along the way, just dont want to drag it into this topic. Here are some teasers for ya guys though...



Pic of the outside rear of building, taken a few months ago when I first started looking at it..

Main shop is divided in two sections, a larger side with two hanging heaters and a restroom..

..and a smaller side with its own heat/ AC. This will eventually pass through for vehicles and will be where all my workbenches/ tools are. This side has a wash sink and a drinking fountain

Downstairs of firestation has another restroom/ a small room, an office and the main area will have my pool table/ chairs/ fridge/ bar....basic after work hangout for me and buddies. This room is where the stairs head to the upper level.

At rear of building is an office...pretty much needs paint and cleanup and good to go.

Pictures of the upstairs are just a dump....I'm sure you can imagine it. Another shot of the stairway from the top though...

 

[ddawg16]

What ever you do, do NOT mess with those stairs.......

Nice....very nice....LOTS of potential.....

If I were single and a lot of time on my hands....dream place....

 

[sheslostcontrol]

Those stairs are *beautiful*

 

[little d]

O M G, lol you lucky.... i will def be watching this one,please take the advice and call your building inspectors office, i think you will be plesently suprised how much they will be willing to work with ya.

 

[ghnl]

When you mentioned spiral stairs at the beginning I think we all assumed the type that wraps tightly around a central post. I don't think you'd have any issues with those stairs not 'meeting code' for egress.

It does look like a nice shop/apartment. Thanks for the photos - more please!

 

[Daniel Dudley]

What you need to know is that not pulling a permit now could lead to trouble later. God forbid you should want to sell the place and there are problems, or you have a fire and you are not insured, or someone sees you working and calls the town.

 

[mechamunch]

That is going to be the most bitchin' project ever. As others have said, those stairs MUST stay.

 

[MeanYellowZ]

Thanks for the compliments on the stairs...def one of the cooler parts. Believe me there are no thoughts about doing anything to the stair area other than a good cleaning. The only bad part is all construction materials/ people/ tools must go up down there stairs...I hope they dont get damaged.

 

[zeebad1]

Welcome aboard Randy!! You'll enjoy a lot of time spent here. I sure have.

It looks like you will have a very nice place for all of your toys.
It will be a lot of work, but worth it in the long run.

And take care of those stairs!!

 

[Crizzle]

Wow. The pictures are even cooler than I had imagined before seeing them!

 

[MeanYellowZ]

Welcome aboard Randy!! You'll enjoy a lot of time spent here. I sure have.

It looks like you will have a very nice place for all of your toys.
It will be a lot of work, but worth it in the long run.

And take care of those stairs!!

I'm hoping if I close my eyes and click my heels together it will turn out like yours!! LOL....I saw Les in some of your pics....is that the secret to turning this place into a beautiful shop???

 

[zeebad1]

I'm hoping if I close my eyes and click my heels together it will turn out like yours!! LOL....I saw Les in some of your pics....is that the secret to turning this place into a beautiful shop???

You bet!!!

He, and anyone else that was willing to help was never turned away!!!

I'm just getting around to doing the 2009 books, and it will be interesting to see how much was spent on FOOD & DRINK for our project. You have to keep the help happy!!

It looks like you have a lot of potential there. I'll have to check it out in person.

Good luck!