Commercial Gfci outlets requirement

[Rickycandela]

Hi guys, new here and after reading around noticed quite lots of experienced members in this forum. I am not a electrician but I know my way around a load center and wiring circuits except I have a doubt about one thing.
I am building a new auto repair shop in Tampa, Fl, and the arquitect says that every receptacle has to be a gfci and that I am NOT allowed to have a gfci just at the beginning of a circuit.
I am trying to reduce cost as much as possible but I don’t want to violate any NEC codes (which I can not find after browsing the web for a while, all I get is adds to buy the book) and I’m afraid I buy a non revised or updated version.

I think he is wrong but Iam Not 10% sure.
I just want to know what is the maximum allowed (I know that wire length or distance between receptacles is a factor to consider) bu the shop is 100 feet long and I have plenty of available spaces to use in the load center.
I apreciate any inputs. Thanks all.

 

[sberry]

He would be wrong.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You can get free online access to NFPA 70 (The NEC) here:

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...ds/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70

Auto repair shop would be a special occupancy and that is covered in chapter 5.

Ive never heard of needing a GFCI outlet at each location. That is just silly and a waste of money. However look in chapter 5 and ask the architect for a code reference.

I would do GFCI breakers....

As far as number of outlets per circuit in commercial its 180va per yoke which is 10-13 outlets for 15-20a circuits respectively.

 

[cybrdyke]

Architects are no more an authority on electrical code than anyone else. They typically DO have rather large egos. Tell him he's wrong.
+1 on using GFCI breakers.
CD

 

[dscheidt]

Ive never heard of needing a GFCI outlet at each location. That is just silly and a waste of money. However look in chapter 5 and ask the architect for a code reference.

It's a pretty common engineering (as opposed to code) requirement in industrial settings and in commercial kitchens. Fault trips only that outlet, nothing else. If you're putting $20,000 worth of equipment in, a couple hundred bucks in GFCI outlets is a trivial expense.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's a pretty common engineering (as opposed to code) requirement in industrial settings and in commercial kitchens. Fault trips only that outlet, nothing else. If you're putting $20,000 worth of equipment in, a couple hundred bucks in GFCI outlets is a trivial expense.

Well sure but the architect isnt talking about design issues.

And im well aware of the idea and benefit behind it.

But im talking code.

And he's saying its required[by code]...

 

[Rickycandela]

Auto repair shop would be a special occupancy and that is covered in chapter 5.

Ive never heard of needing a GFCI outlet at each location.
I would do GFCI breakers....

As far as number of outlets per circuit in commercial its 180va per yoke which is 10-13 outlets for 15-20a circuits respectively.[/QUOTE]

Soooo you mean you would use a GFCI receptacle at every outlet?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Soooo you mean you would use a GFCI receptacle at every outlet?

No not what i said

 

[alfredeneuman]

I did electrical work for new car dealerships almost exclusively for 6 years.
GFCI protection was required for all the workstations.
It was in the written specs. to use separate GFI receptacles for each workstation (instead of GFI breakers) to only trip in that workstation to avoid taking the whole line of mechanics down.

In addition, all electrical equipment under 18" AFF is classified as a Div1,Class2 location.
Any lube pits and the like are classified as Div1, Class1.

 

[MattT]

Not a NEC requirement but might be something local. Best to check with the electrical inspector having jurisdiction. And while you've got them on the phone also ask what edition of the NEC they're using.

Regards engineering giving each bay dedicated circuits would be better than individual GFIs IMO. That way when a mechanic does something he only shuts himself down regardless of whether it's a ground fault or an overload.

 

[Rickycandela]

Sorry, got it, you meant breakers.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Regards engineering giving each bay dedicated circuits would be better than individual GFIs IMO. That way when a mechanic does something he only shuts himself down regardless of whether it's a ground fault or an overload.

The workstation circuits were limited to 6 for each circuit. They were only for use with portable equipment that would require extension cords, and chargers for phones, laptops, and cordless tools.
All of the major diagnostic equipment was on separate breakers.
These were BIG shops with 40+ workstations.
To give circuits to every one of them would have meant a fully dedicated panel to the workstations alone.
The whole dealership would have more than 25 panels (counting both 277/480 and 120/208V) as it was. The services themselves were between 1200 to 2000 amps at 480V.

 

[Bert_]

Every outlet has to be GFCI protected. That does not mean each outlet must be a gfci. A GFCI at the beginning with all other outlets connected to the "load" terminals will meet the requirement. The NEC does not list maximum outlets on a circuit. That is determined by your needs and equipment.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The NEC does not list maximum outlets on a circuit. That is determined by your needs and equipment.

In residential no.......

In commercial yes, it is 180va per general use receptacle. (just as in the case of mechanic's workstations)

Receptacle Outlets. Except as covered in 220.14(J)and (K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle on one yoke. (220.14(J) deals with residential and 220.14(K) is for banks and office buildings, which only modifies it to provide for an alternate way of computing the loads)

 

[Bert_]

In residential no.......

In commercial yes, it is 180va per general use receptacle. (just as in the case of mechanic's workstations)

Receptacle Outlets. Except as covered in 220.14(J)and (K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle on one yoke. (220.14(J) deals with residential and 220.14(K) is for banks and office buildings, which only modifies it to provide for an alternate way of computing the loads)

Hmm, I've never thought about that section as limiting the number of recepts on a breaker. I mean 220 is talking about calculations, specifically sizing a feeder or service, rather than branch circuit wiring but the wording does seem to imply a maximum. 210 doesn't say anything about it, and that would be the place to list a max if that is what they intended.

Not that I am suggesting someone install 18 or 20 outlets on a single circuit, I am just not sure that the NEC prohibits it. Even in a commercial setting.

 

[Rickycandela]

It does make sense about having a gfci receptacle on every work station so each technician only cuts his station’s power in case of a issue, (did not think of that). Oh well, I guess I’ll bite the bullet and get it done that way. Thanks all for the fast replies.

 

[matt_i]

It does make sense about having a gfci receptacle on every work station so each technician only cuts his station’s power in case of a issue, (did not think of that). Oh well, I guess I’ll bite the bullet and get it done that way. Thanks all for the fast replies.

That was what I was thinking. If everyone's power kept getting knocked out by the circuit's GFI breaker or main controller, there's a high likelihood that that protection would eventually be disabled/bypassed/etc.

 

[sberry]

That would be true if it happened a lot. I cant even remember the last gfci fault. I could have had one on the bench but it went line to line and tripped the breaker. But,, a lot if not half or more of my recepts are one duplex to a circuit, especially places I plug tools in to.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That was what I was thinking. If everyone's power kept getting knocked out by the circuit's GFI breaker or main controller, there's a high likelihood that that protection would eventually be disabled/bypassed/etc.

If the GFCI protection failed, you wouldnt be able to reset it and thus would have no power.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Wylie: You may have underestimated the mechanics/techs.

Most consider themselves to (just because they're experts in their field) think they know everything about everything (including electrical).
They will think nothing of opening up a box or panel to bypass the GFI protection.

 

[justsam]

It does make sense about having a gfci receptacle on every work station so each technician only cuts his station’s power in case of a issue, (did not think of that). Oh well, I guess I’ll bite the bullet and get it done that way. Thanks all for the fast replies.

True, but only if the issue is a ground fault issue, as MattT has already pointed out.

If the issue is one of over current, it will trip the breaker and all circuits/devices that are on that circuit. The only way to guard against this would be a separate breaker circuit to each workstation, or local work station over current protection of some form, designed to trip before breaker trips.

 

[sberry]

They aint always experts.