Cramming cars into 22x19x15...

[Tremelune]

I've recently procured a tight, tall 2-car garage, and I'm wondering how to lay the thing out. It's 19' wide, 22' long, and between 9-16' sloped from front to back with a few warts. A summary of concerns:

1) How to get the door out of the way when open.
2) How to cram as many lifts and cars in there as I can.
3) How to keep it cool in the summer.

Right now the door is a standard-height and would block any lift. I could do a high-lift, but there is enough room for the door to lift straight up. Is that common?

I figure I could have a serious 1-car workshop with a big 2-post lift, but I would love to cram a 4-post lift and a 2-post lift in there so I can park a couple cars and work on another. Based on what I've measured, I can do it, but I might be underestimating how annoyingly tight it would be, and I suspect it might not be possible to put a 2-post lift as close to the edges of the garage as I'd need to. On the right is a door into my house, and on the left is the exterior. I'm almost certain the slab ends there (and it's probably the cheapest slab they could legally install).

Maybe a narrow 4-post and a narrow 2-post? Perhaps a 1-post "portable" lift? I could do a double-wide 4-post, but that would be a whole lotta shufflin' to get a car up or down, and the ones they raise or lower independently are twice the price and don't provide access to the underside of a raised car...

The corner jutting houses my hot water heater, and I suspect it would be costly to move.

I live in Los Angeles which means it doesn't really get that cold, but it can get hot during the day. There are giant windows above the garage door that the sun pours through, and I don't believe any of the garage is insulated. I wouldn't lose much useful space by insulating the roof, but it might be a bummer to lose space insulating walls. I'm not sure what it would cost...Maybe I can just have a biggass fan blowing on me for July/August and not worry about it too much.

Something I suspect would help a lot would be a whole-house fan blowing into the attic. That would allow me to **** cool outside air into the garage, and I could choose whether it also gets sucked into the house or not depending on which doors are open. I'd rather not punch through an exterior wall for a fan, but maybe I could use the other door at the back of the garage. I dunno.

Anyone have a tight 2-car that works well for getting 3+ cars in with room to work?

 

[Bretny]

Sounds more like a 1 car garage to me.

 

[59 wagon man]

you need a 4 post lift that you can move around and then you can at least get 2 cars in

 

[crewchief888]

my garage is 19Dx22W.

if you plan on working on a vehicle in there it's effectively a 1 car.

with 2 vehicles in mine, they have to be so close together it's impossible to open the doors.

add in a few toolboxes, a bench, and some additional "stuff" and you are out of room....

 

[CombatNinja]

This thing presents quite the challenge. I see your biggest issue as the fact that it is only 19' wide. That is real tight for parking two cars, almost more for a storage scenario than daily use.
The first question I have before I start offering up solutions is what kind of cars are we talking about here? The prescription will obviously be a lot different if you tell us you are into vintage Porsches as opposed to wanting to cram in a bunch of full-size trucks.
Depending on your answer to the above question, you might be best off with a four-post storage lift on which you can fit two small cars and then a low-rise scissor lift on the ground? It needs to be thought through to see if it all would work but that is my initial thought.

 

[CombatNinja]

Also, what are your walls made of? Stick framing? If so, what size? Based on your concept diagram, I am thinking concrete block? Post up some picture so we can see what we are dealing with. Cramming many cars into smallish garages is one of my specialties. I once had 4 cars in an otherwise normal looking suburban garage. Neighborhood kids thought I was Batman once they saw me pull two Porsches out of the way to lower the lift and remove the Lotus Exige.

 

[High5]

Consider swing out doors (aka Carriage Doors) assuming you have area in front to open them. A 2 post lift may require a thicker than normal concrete slab. So you may want to speak with a lift representative on their requirements.

 

[joe_padavano]

my garage is 19Dx22W.

if you plan on working on a vehicle in there it's effectively a 1 car.

^^^THIS. Unless the cars you have are MGs, you can't even get two cars into that space.

 

[firebirdparts]

I immediately thought the game was 4 cars. Door straight up, double wide 4 poster. You need one that is exactly the width of the space.

 

[Tremelune]

I guess my real question is whether I want a glorious 1-car shop or the ability to park 3+ cars. It is tight, but I know I can get a 4-post and a scissor in there, I'm just trying to figure out what's possible and what's optimal. It's a dilemma I'm very thankful to have.

I think the fleet will wind up something like and old 911, something as large as a modern Mustang, and maybe an MGB or 1st gen Bronco. Mostly small stuff in terms of what lived in there, but it would be nice to have the ability to occasionally work on, say, a modern pickup should one wander into the flock. I recognize that this is all an exercise in compromise.

One thing I have going for me is a kind of weird back deck out the rear door where I could put benches, tables, and cabinets to save garage space. I would only keep my toolboxes and expensive stuff inside, and do most work out in the back.

 

[Tremelune]

A barn door could work, but a directly-lifted door would be better. My driveway is (very) short, but could accommodate one large or two small cars if I'm willing to block the garage some. It's mostly handy for friends stopping by when street parking is tight.

 

[Tremelune]

Like, it has to be really annoying to have to shuffle 2-3 cars out every time you want to put something new up on a double-wide 4-post lift, right? That would solve my parking problems and still provide a lift (or two) for working on most things, it's just...rather inconvenient.

Heh, I guess only I can answer that question...

 

[CombatNinja]

Door solution is super easy, jackshaft openers lifting the door straight up. Only compromise there is it will block some of light that comes in those windows but if the door is open anyway, who cares? You obviously need to address the lighting situation anyway so no harm there. Your lift situation is kind of stumping me. I can see what you want to do but I'm not sure it can easily be done. What you really 'need' is a large 4-post parking lift to get two of the cars up off the ground. The lift has to be pretty much as wide as the garage itself so as not to 'pinch' the width down at the door. Then the ideal would be a scissor lift built into the floor right in the middle of the garage. This way, you could leave the two upper cars in place and work on one on the ground. This pretty much restricts you to working on a creeper under the car, you would never be able to get the upper platform high enough to lift the car on the bottom very high.
How does that ceiling slope down? Is your sketch accurate? Hard to tell if the ceiling slope itself might be an issue for cars up on a lift. Really unique garage you have there.

 

[chrismenke]

Do you have neighbors? An HOA? Is the driveway in front of your house flat?

Depending on your driving habits, I could see having the weekend cars up in the air on a double wide (P Cars I'm assuming) and the Bronco parked on top of a lowered portable scissor lift.

Brake job on the Bronco? Scissor lift in the driveway. Dropping a P car motor onto a rolling cart? Out of the double or scissor lift in the driveway. Dealing with a weird computer based code fault on a modern Mustang? Dealership.

I have used the Snap On EELR Scissor lift extensively on a whole fleet of things without issue.

I think pairing that with a double stacker would give you a 4 car garage from a 2 car, and still give you a reasonable way to do jobs without relying on the double lift.

This Bend pack is 16.8 ft wide:

This is about 17.5 ft:

The first one has some really good work on the car accessories...the second is more of a parking solution.

Either way, it will be tight but probably better than trying to cram a parking lift and a 2 post...

 

[CombatNinja]

I like that one that has the ability to lift or lower one side at a time. That is slick.

Tremelune, you still haven't told us what the walls are made of so we can offer up an insulation solution.

 

[bczygan]

Time for an addition.

Bill

 

[Tremelune]

I must say, I don't know what the walls are made of. They seem like they're 2x4s and drywall. Seem to be about 6" thick to the exterior. The roof really seems to be the same—think attic roof with drywall nailed under it.

There shall be no addition, for my house and garage occupy every legal square foot available for my land. I'm taking bets on whether I'll get got by fire, earthquake, or landslide...I'm trying to squeeze an ounce of country livin' in this serious city.

It's looking like a 4-post and a scissor might be the compromise...Just gotta do some soul-searching. How badly do I want a full-size Rotary asymmetric monster with lots of space around the car? Badly...but at what cost to my hide-able, protectable fleet...?

 

[Tremelune]

So Atlas has this single post lift...

 

[Tremelune]

Man. They couldn't have thrown another foot or two on that door width?

 

[CombatNinja]

Man, that looks tight with that 4-post and single post both in there. I think it would be one of those things that you would feel great if you could pull it off and then immediately regret because it is not functional. Is your slab thick enough for that single post? I imagine that thing needs some serious thickness.
I still think that the best solution might be a 4-post and then a portable scissor jack that you can use in the middle of the floor.

 

[stm317]

Man. They couldn't have thrown another foot or two on that door width?

From an aesthetics standpoint, the exterior view might benefit from a wider overhead door that's closer to the width of the windows above... It would look better and be more functional, but it would take some work, and a custom width door.

 

[Homerr]

How are Bendpak's rated for seismic?

 

[CombatNinja]

From an aesthetics standpoint, the exterior view might benefit from a wider overhead door that's closer to the width of the windows above... It would look better and be more functional, but it would take some work, and a custom width door.

And darn near pointless for his application. Do you see those stairs and landing inside for the door into the house? A wider door would serve no functional purpose. In fact, it might be "un-functional" in that it would give you the ability to have a real "oh ****" moment by running one of the cars into those stairs should you misjudge by a few inches. Aesthetically I kind of agree with you but we are talking about a whole new header, custom door and Lord knows how many structural engineers to sign off on that in earthquake country. Not something I would be eager to spend $30,000 doing.
If it bothered me enough, I would just put my house number in really big metal numbers (preferably backlit) running vertically in that space to the right of the garage door just to balance it out visually.

Tremelune, are you opposed to opening up an 'exploratory' hole in one of those walls to see what kind of construction is in there? If the drywall is in good shape, your best bet is for blown-in insulation which they can do by cutting a series of holes and then patching. I imagine there is a top plate somewhere about 8 or 10 feet up, no way those 16' walls are one continuous stud.

Edit: I was staring at the exterior pic of your garage and something just hit me. How high up are the bottom edge of those windows? I just had this great idea for a 4-post parking lift that gets high enough to lift the top cars so that you can see them lit up at night behind the glass. I don't know what the measurements are but that would be incredible to come home and see the top two cars lit by spotlights up there.

 

[stm317]

And darn near pointless for his application. Do you see those stairs and landing inside for the door into the house? A wider door would serve no functional purpose. In fact, it might be "un-functional" in that it would give you the ability to have a real "oh ****" moment by running one of the cars into those stairs should you misjudge by a few inches.

I assumed that the OP placed the Green Aston in his model an appropriate distance from the stairs. If the door were wide enough to get the car in/out then there shouldn't really be much conflict with the stairs.
It would definitely be tight, and as you and I both noted it would be a lot of work, and an expensive/custom door. But if the width of the overhead door is the only thing keeping that modeled scenario from working, that's easy enough to change if you throw enough money at it. And it would look better from the outside too, which might be enough justification to make it happen.

 

[CombatNinja]

I can see that you would not even be able to open the driver's door of the Aston if it were parked as pictured.
I stand by my assertion that even if you were able to achieve all of what is pictured in that diagram, it would be utterly useless for working on cars. Too crowded.

 

[firebirdparts]

From an aesthetics standpoint, the exterior view might benefit from a wider overhead door that's closer to the width of the windows above... It would look better and be more functional, but it would take some work, and a custom width door.

there's nothing holding that building up. I'd be scared to touch any of that.

 

[firebirdparts]

From your picture you can see that it's gotta be a double-wide 4 poster or nothing. You can't get the green aston out the door.

A single autostacker might work. But why stop at just one?

 

[stm317]

I can see that you would not even be able to open the driver's door of the Aston if it were parked as pictured.
I stand by my assertion that even if you were able to achieve all of what is pictured in that diagram, it would be utterly useless for working on cars. Too crowded.

I agree with you here.

 

[Matt M PA]

My attached garage is something like 18x18. I back the Viper GTS in on one side, and my '72 Plymouth Scamp is driven straight in on the other. This way, I can open each driver's door enough to get in and out of the cars. I have nothing on either side wall. There is slat wall waist-high and above with shelves, etc for storage as the cars are beneath.

While I've done some simple stuff in there like battery replacement, there's no way I could work on the "wall" sides of the cars...I can't even squeeze down those sides. While I don't have the height, a 4 post lift would take up more width and make it even harder to deal with.

In our detached, we have one bay that's high enough for a 4 post. Afterl it was installed, I realized that the lift's posts at less than a foot from the wall can be a hassle. With a vehicle on the lift at a high enough position to duck under, it's no problem....but when the lift is just a few feet up it's difficult to get to the wall side as I can fit between the posts and the wall. Moving it out just causes a worse problem on the other side.

 

[LX-Markham]

From your picture you can see that it's gotta be a double-wide 4 poster or nothing. You can't get the green aston out the door.

I've got the same footprint of a garage, and a double wide lift fit (just) and was the only way to go.

Park 2 cars underneath, and one car up top. Lots of room to work on the car that way. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to move both cars in order to get to the top one, but that's the price to pay. You want more convenience....move out of LA.

I back the Viper GTS in on one side, and my '72 Plymouth Scamp is driven straight in on the other. This way, I can open each driver's door enough to get in and out of the cars. I have nothing on either side wall.

Same here.

 

[Tremelune]

So. A single 4-post lift doesn't net me much more shop space than two of 'em, and I find it real hard to commit to a single 2-post, as there wouldn't be enough room to park anything alongside it, so...

The left lift is a 100x200", and the right lift is 110x200". Each car is 188x80" (including mirrors). I realized there is a slight slope towards the front of my garage, so the lifts would have to be set back a couple feet, which does do away with the only workbench I'd be able to stuff in the rear.

It does seem a bit extreme. I'm trying to be realistic about how I would actually spend my time in there.

 

[Kage]

My last garage was 19'x19'. I would have loved to have that much vertical space to work with in addition the the extra 3' in length you have and the outdoor working area! Going down memory lane a bit here, and some of this was already covered above

- Yes, with some track work and a jack shaft opener, you can have that garage door open straight up freeing up the vertical space

- If you find yourself sweating to death in the summer out there, then getting some insulation in the garage and cool air is worth the investment if you plan on being in the house long term. I was fortunate in that I had insulation in my garage due to the HVAC and Water Heater living out there. That meant a small window AC unit (6,100 BTU) was able to keep it pretty comfortable to work in.

- As others have mentioned, that size two car becomes a 1 car in a hurry depending on what project you are doing. I frequently was able to have my wife's car parked in the garage while I worked on whatever project vehicle I had, but more often than not, it sucked. Plan on having everything on wheels, and nothing on the floor beside the cars and utilize the depth of the garage (22' back wall) the best you can.

- What kind of projects are you planning on doing in there? Are you more likely to just store cars out there and do casual wrenching, or are you tearing into breaks/suspension/motors routinely?

If it were me, I would do a 4 post for the Left Hand side, and a portable mid rise lift on the Right Hand side. That way, I wouldn't be 'tripping' over the lift on the Right hand side when it wasn't needed. I would also do what I could to have external garage storage for the low touch items (Basement or storage shed).

Very cool garage and unique problems to overcome!

 

[Tremelune]

The heaviest lifting I expect to do is a complete replacement of that 911 suspension and maaaybe pulling an engine or two. I used to have a scissor lift and it was great for 90% of what I needed (though always a bit irritating to work around). I'm not much for welding, and I feel like various grinding/blasting/cutting work could be done on the parts outside.

I try to work on everything that I can, but it's a hobby for sure, and I don't see any frame-up restorations going on any time soon. I suspect it'll mostly be parking, with at least one when-I-get-to-it project in the works perpetually.

I have several motorcycles, but they're already been relegated to the alley to the side of the house...Not a huge concern, but it's always nice to be able to rais e them up a bit for certain work.

I also have a rarely used bedroom that is pretty much an annex shop at this point. I don't want to destroy it, but it's a good place to do smaller things in climate controlled comfort...

I realize only I can know what my needs are and how to address them, but talking it out and hearing others' experiences is helpful.

It seems like this is approaching the realm of fantasy, so I should probably focus on how to get a fan in there, as I know no matter what my lift/insulation setup is, I'll want a way to force outside air in at times.

 

[Kage]

^ So with that post, I would focus on a double wide 2 post lift, assuming they go high enough that you can comfortably work on another car underneath it. Maybe they make an extra tall version? Then you could still sneak in the portable mid rise lift as needed.

In the end, you're going to wind up playing Tetris every time you go out there. So try to make it as painless as possible

 

[scheu]

Absolutely no way to expand towards the rear? Take some of the deck space? Even a few feet might be worth it in the long run.
Being in CA, what about a shade sail on the deck? Might be a nice place to work. Have a bench outside.

 

[Bluedodge]

... I was staring at the exterior pic of your garage and something just hit me. How high up are the bottom edge of those windows? I just had this great idea for a 4-post parking lift that gets high enough to lift the top cars so that you can see them lit up at night behind the glass. I don't know what the measurements are but that would be incredible to come home and see the top two cars lit by spotlights up there.

I thought the same thing. With the right lighting on the Porsches up there, the OP would have the mack-daddy of garages!

 

[chrismenke]

Want to spend some real money? Can you go down? Elevators in 2 bays put the cars below grade & a single post anchored into the newly re-engineered concrete let's you lift one.

 

[tthornto]

What about keeping it to 3 cars and using a 4 post but also building mezzanine over the space without a lift to give yourself some space for a workbench toolbox etc. Then you can park your project vehicle on the lift raise it up to the work area and have 2 usable parking spaces below. Build in a ladder to go upstairs and a strip... I mean Fire pole for when you want to get down.

 

[CombatNinja]

He doesn't have the headroom in the rear of the garage for a mezzanine. Look at his sketch on page 1. The ceiling tapers from a really high 16' in the front down to a normal ceiling at the rear. By the time a four poster lift is in there, he might have 11' above the rear edge of it. And that ceiling taper along with the intrusion of his water heater in the corner pretty much preclude him from moving the lift farther rearward, which would maybe allow him to put the mezzanine in the front. It looks like a four poster double lift is the best solution here. As far as everyone suggesting wazoo things like building a bat cave and digging a subterranean garage with an elevator--remember the part on page where he was sort of reluctant to relocate the hot water heater because of the cost to do so? Let's keep it realistic here.

 

[86turbodsl]

Since you live in LA, and don't have snow to deal with, you have many more options for doors. Outward carriage, side opening UK-style sectional, whatever. You don't need to compromise with high lift doors that block the upper windows. I'd put one of those wide bendpaks in there before anything else. If you live in LA and have two porsches, you can afford whatever it takes to meet the challenge of this garage.