Does anyone have a Van Norman Brake lathe

[mx842]

There was this guy standing in his over loaded garage the week before last and stared at this big hunk of junk that his father left him several years before. He didn't know if it even worked as it was all rusted and banged up looking. He didn't want to part with it but his wife pretty much made the decision to haul it off to the dump because it was not being used and it took up a lot of her valuable space that she could use to put a bunch of her worthless junk.

He somehow got it loaded on his trailer and was headed to the scrap yard when he remembered that one of my sons worked on cars so he went by his house to see if he wanted it. He didn't want that worthless looking pile of junk but he said I know someone that will take anything like that no matter how ratty it was. That would be me. They rolled up in the drive way and backed up to my garage door and asked where did I want them to pile it up.

At first I didn't know what it was but then I spotted several buckets of tooling and took a closer look and could see it was a brake lathe disguised as a big pile of junk so I told them to back under my trolly chain lift and I would pick it off for them, All 759 lbs of it.

It sat in the middle of the floor for a couple days and because it was raining outside and couldn't work outside I decided to take it apart and see if I could maybe salvage something out of it. I wish I had taken some pics of it the way it was but before I knew it I had it mostly apart with the parts hanging on my paint rack. It took me three days to clean, strip, mask and paint that poor neglected pile of scrap but a little paint does wonders on an old machine like that.

It took me another couple days to figure out how to put it back together then it was time to rewire the thing because the power cord was banged up in a couple of places and the light and motor switches looked like they had fought a war and lost. Before I started to clean the machine I plugged it in to a wall plug and it popped the circuit breaker right off the bat so I knew the wiring was bad. I looked for three days on the internet for a wiring diagram and found a couple but they were pretty poor copies and I couldn't make heads or tails out of them.

It was wired for 110V but I wanted to run it off one of my welder plugs I have throughout the shop. I decided to scrap the way it was wired all together and do it another way. I added a box to the side of the machine where I could run my cord from with switches mounted on the top. I also added circuit breakers for the light and the motor.

Once this was done It was time to plug it in and see what would happen. I tried the light switch first thinking it would probably be less smoke and fire that could come from that circuit and when I flipped the switch the light came on like it should....no smoke, fire or anything like that just nice bright light.

So it was time to smoke test the motor so I reached over and flipped that switch too.......I mean, what's the worst that could happen so I hit the switch and nothing happened, no smoke, no noise out of the motor, no nothing. Then I looked at the circuit breaker I had added into the mix and saw that it was off. Wow...still another chance to see some sparks so I flipped that too and was shocked to see that the motor actually started and ran rather nicely so I put it in gear to see if the spindle would move which it did. I couldn't believe how smooth and quiet the machine ran. I couldn't try the table feed because both of the belts were toast and there were a couple other pieces I will need to get before I can try that part out.

I'm sure it will work if I can find the parts. Also, I will need to find out where all this rusty tooling goes. I did buy a manual off e-bay but I may as well have kept that $16.00 in my pocket because that don't tell you much. It list the tooling with a number but no picture of what that part looks like and there are no numbers stamped on any of the tooling.

If anyone out there has one of these Van Norman machines would you be so kind to maybe help me out finding where to get parts and maybe ID some of this tooling. Thanks

 

[Falcon67]

First place I'd call would be Goodson.

 

[Fueler]

I don't see an arbor or cones for mounting the drums.
You may want to go visit the donor to see if more stuff is laying there.
I ran one of those as a kid but don't remember much. A google image search came up with several that could be used to figure it out.

 

[doctordirt]

Goodson is where my tooling comes from too.

 

[rsanter]

I used to have one with all the tooling but sold it due to lack of use. it was not the same model, the one I had was a little smaller and would do disc and drum

 

[BillK]

I have one but rarely use it. Have a wall full of tooling too. I think Van Norman still sells everything you need and are most likely less expensive than Goodson. The biggest issue with them is the arbors getting runout. I have three different size arbors that will do everything from the smallest rotor to a tractor trailer drum with the wheel and tire attached Pretty bulletproof machine but not used much any more.


You need to have VERY sharp bits to do modern composite rotors and they still like to chatter.

I will look and see if I have a better manual and parts list in the morning.

 

[mx842]

Thanks about the tip about Goodson. There was a bunch of tooling that was in buckets but as with most stuff that has been just sitting in a back corner somewhere it was pretty rusted. I'm going to try and clean it all up when I get time to get back on it. I have three arbors, one great big one, a small one and one in the middle. Plus I have the big tool bar that is used for drums.

This machine will cut both drums and rotors. I think the side with the power feed will do both but it also has manual table slide on the other side of the machine I think just for doing drums. I think there are a few parts missing on that side like the table lock. I have the screw knob that goes in the side to lock the table but I can screw it all the way in and the table still moves. Also the table will slide all the way off if you keep turning the hand wheel and I'm thinking there should be some kind of stop to keep it from doing that. Maybe what ever is missing where the table lock screw hole is will keep it in place, I just don't know.

I had also read that with other special tooling you could also do flywheels on this machine but I'm not sure of that. I just have to get all that stuff that is in those buckets cleaned up so I can ID them to see what I have.

I still can't believe how smooth this machine is now. When I first got it neither of the table slides would even move, now after removing years of piled up brake dust and grease from the old girl everything moves really well. I do think I'll have to replace the jib on the manual table because there is a small amount of play in the table even if I screw in the screws that tighten the jib all the way in. When all the way in to where the table won't slide at all there is no play but if I just back off each one the slightest bit I can feel the side to side play come back. I know this is a older machine and it will never be perfect....even if it ever was but I would get it back together as good as it can be.

I probably won't use it much for cutting brake drums and rotors but I'm thinking there is other things that I can do with this thing if I set my mind to it. Thanks for all your comments and help. The manual that I got off e-bay really doesn't really help all that much, it's just a copy of the same manual you can download for free that's all over the internet.

 

[Handyfarmer]

I have a old star brake lathe, but have not used it for nealy 20 years,

 

[BillK]

This machine will cut both drums and rotors. I think the side with the power feed will do both but it also has manual table slide on the other side of the machine I think just for doing drums.

The side with the power feed will not do drums because of the way the tool holder holds the cutting bits for drums. The rotation of the spindle is wrong to use that side for drums. I will get some pics later on off mine. It is sitting in the corner all set up to use as it has been for years.

They make a flywheel grinding attachment that is a total pain in the arz. We had it when I first started in business. I used it to do about 5 flywheels and then bought a real Van Norman flywheel grinder.

 

[mx842]

The side with the power feed will not do drums because of the way the tool holder holds the cutting bits for drums. The rotation of the spindle is wrong to use that side for drums. I will get some pics later on off mine. It is sitting in the corner all set up to use as it has been for years.

They make a flywheel grinding attachment that is a total pain in the arz. We had it when I first started in business. I used it to do about 5 flywheels and then bought a real Van Norman flywheel grinder.

Pics would be great, thanks. I have seen several pics on the net with the drum cutter mounted on the power feed side. I don't know if it was setup that way to use or just the way it was stored away. But the rotation of the spindle as you mentioned makes sense I hadn't thought about that. If you still have the flywheel attachment could you snap a pic or two so I can see what it looks like.

There was two cone shaped cutting stones in the pail of parts and I was wondering what they were used for. I don't have a pic of them but I'll post a pic of what tooling I have. Thanks!!


I went looking and found a utube video of cutting drums on the feed side. Not saying if it is right or wrong just posting what I saw.

 

[BillK]

mx,
Here is a couple of pics of mine. Sorry it took so long, swamped with work at the shop.

 

[BillK]

I went looking and found a utube video of cutting drums on the feed side. Not saying if it is right or wrong just posting what I saw.

Cant tell what bit holder they are using. With the one I have it would be impossible because of the way it holds the bits. I will have to take a better look tomorrow and make sure you cant somehow turn the bit holder around.

 

[mx842]

mx,
Here is a couple of pics of mine. Sorry it took so long, swamped with work at the shop.

Great!! I mean being busy that is it seems everybody is busy now days. That looks almost like mine except I changed my wiring around and did away with the light switch where it was. I wanted to hook up mine to a welder plug so I had to add a couple of circuit breakers for the motor and light circuits so I just built a control box and mounted it to the side of the cabinet with a nice long cord.

I don't know how much I'll use it but it will be nice to have around if I ever do need it. I was also kicking around a few ideas of other things it could be used for.

Hey I noticed on the other end of your drum tool bar there is another tool holder. I seem to be missing that one, what is that for? And did you ever get a chance to snap a pic of that flywheel tooling?

 

[BillK]

One of the holders uses a triangular shaped bit. I think that one was for giant drums with hot spots in them. What model is yours ? I just pulled the two books I have out of the file cabinet. I can scan them over the weekend and send you a copy unless you already have both. One is the "instructions for care and operation" and the other is the "illustrated parts list" the parts list shows all of the parts and adapters with pictures.

 

[6768rogues]

Cool story but I have not had a rotor or drum turned in over 20 years. I just buy new ones. My friend at the corner garage has a machine, but he has not used it in so long that it is buried under junk.

 

[mx842]

One of the holders uses a triangular shaped bit. I think that one was for giant drums with hot spots in them. What model is yours ? I just pulled the two books I have out of the file cabinet. I can scan them over the weekend and send you a copy unless you already have both. One is the "instructions for care and operation" and the other is the "illustrated parts list" the parts list shows all of the parts and adapters with pictures.

Mine is a 204 I think. Everything I have pulled off the internet even the one I bought off e-bay is not very clear at all. You can hardly read most of it and the one I have doesn't mention a word about how to use the thing. If you could do that for me it would be great. Thanks!!

 

[mx842]

Cool story but I have not had a rotor or drum turned in over 20 years. I just buy new ones. My friend at the corner garage has a machine, but he has not used it in so long that it is buried under junk.

Yeah, that's the way it is in this new world we live in, people don't fix anything anymore they just throw it away and buy new stuff. I can understand some of it because now with labor and the cost of equipment it almost cost as much to turn them as it does to replace them on most cars and trucks, especially the newer stuff where all you replace is the outer ring.

 

[bwringer]

Brakes on any late-model grocery-getter are phenomenal compared to ye olden days, especially when you stir in the widespread use of ABS. Yeah, buying new rotors instead of turning them sort of *****, but it's a worthwhile trade.

So anyway, with all these un-used old brake lathes around, can they be repurposed somehow? Can you make a regular lathe, or something similar, out of them?

 

[6768rogues]

Yeah, that's the way it is in this new world we live in, people don't fix anything anymore they just throw it away and buy new stuff. I can understand some of it because now with labor and the cost of equipment it almost cost as much to turn them as it does to replace them on most cars and trucks, especially the newer stuff where all you replace is the outer ring.

I hear you. I like to fix rather than repair, but for not much more money I get new rotors. I have had problems with turned rotors being thinner and warping fairly quickly, so I gave up on turning them. Also, if they have concentric rings from turning them they can squeak. For a few bucks more I get new ones with a 2 year or longer warranty. Our Carquest is great for warranty coverage.
And I will add that my old rotors always go in my scrap pile to be taken to the scrap yard. Then the scrap metal goes to China so they can make me some more new rotors.

 

[BillK]

Mine is a 204 I think.

MX,
Send me your e-mail in a PM and I will send you the scans. One of them is pretty big 15M PDF files.

 

[mx842]

I hear you. I like to fix rather than repair, but for not much more money I get new rotors. I have had problems with turned rotors being thinner and warping fairly quickly, so I gave up on turning them. Also, if they have concentric rings from turning them they can squeak. For a few bucks more I get new ones with a 2 year or longer warranty. Our Carquest is great for warranty coverage.
And I will add that my old rotors always go in my scrap pile to be taken to the scrap yard. Then the scrap metal goes to China so they can make me some more new rotors.

Yeah I get you there with problems with turned rotors. Most if not all problems with rotors that end up giving trouble can be traced back to the person running the machine. Sloppy setup, not checking to see if there is enough meat left on the drum or rotor before you start and making sure you have the right tooling and proper cutting inserts in the tool holder. And of course that they are sharp and not pitted or dull.

Long ago I worked at an auto parts and repair shop and we got a brand new Ammco that was the latest and the greatest. The problem was that it had all this stuff and no one there really knew what all of it was for. Well the boss knew all about it but he was always to busy chasing that cute little blond that worked at the bowling alley across the street and didn't have time to really teach anyone much about it. I knew a little about general machining of parts and would try to help the young fellow that the boss was determined to do nothing but turn all the drums and brakes that came into the shop. It was rare that he ever came into the shop during the day but when he did he would raise hell with me for being in the back helping out. He would yell and scream like a little girl, You are supposed to be up front selling parts not back here messing around in the shop.

That kid never did get to the point where he could turn a drum or rotor where it didn't have to be redone several times and a lot of those times I'd have to sell the customer a brand new one before it was over. The boss finally fired the poor kid and I felt bad for him because he never got a fair chance. A little later I finally quit when he came in to the shop raising hell with the guys in the back and by the time he got up to the front to where I was I already had my shop keys off my key ring and my personal stuff bagged up and was standing at the front door as he came through the back door still throwing his hissy fit. He yelled, what are you doing standing over there looking out the window, don't you have some inventory paper work to do. I calmly told him No, I've been waiting here for you to get back so I could tell you what kind of jerk you really are and that you can do your own inventory cause I quit!! your keys are on the counter and please mail me my check. Then I walked out the door with a big smile on my face. He quickly changed from hissy fit mode to begging mode but I was two steps ahead of him and got in my truck and left almost having to run over him as I was heading out the parking lot.

 

[mx842]

MX,
Send me your e-mail in a PM and I will send you the scans. One of them is pretty big 15M PDF files.

PM is on the way.........Thanks

 

[mx842]

Thanks BillK I got both of the docs and they were miles ahead of anything I had. That was very kind of you to do that, thanks again!!

 

[scissorman]

Just reviving an old thread since I was doing a search and came upon it. I have a Van Norman 204 brake lathe that I'm rebuilding currently (I used it for 22 years at the shop I worked at and eventually bought), I closed my shop 10 years ago but I kept my brake lathe and hydraulic press. I have good clean documentation on this lathe from when it was bought new in the 50's.