Considering Solar....can I do this?

[Angelfire]

Hiya Folks,
Considering adding solar panels to the roof of my detached garage but have everything land in the house to be distributed accordingly. I currently have a 90A feed to the detached garage from the house. House has a 320A service from the street. Adding the solar panels and running the wires back to the house, does this constitute as another "branch" which I know the code doesn't allow? I'm guessing as long as I don't land any of the solar in the detached garage before heading for the house, I may be ok?
Cheers.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If the wires are going directly from the solar panels to the house then I don't know how it could be considered a "branch circuit". It will have to go through a grid tie inverter and a meter before "connecting" to your grid feed. I don't know enough about solar hook up so I don't know if that connection is actually inside your existing load center (breaker box) or in a separate box. Usually an outside disconnect is required.

 

[Angelfire]

If the wires are going directly from the solar panels to the house then I don't know how it could be considered a "branch circuit". It will have to go through a grid tie inverter and a meter before "connecting" to your grid feed. I don't know enough about solar hook up so I don't know if that connection is actually inside your existing load center (breaker box) or in a separate box. Usually an outside disconnect is required.

Thanks. That was my thinking with regards to the branch circuit as well. Got a guy coming out tonight to quote me a price....preparing to be floored!

 

[Dirtydan69]

We just had a quote on our home for solar. With tax credits applied it was just over 19k. Would cost us 112 a month for 20 years. Would save around 80 a month average. Break even was 14.5 years. We passed. We will do insulation and replace our AC instead.

 

[ducksface]

We just had a quote on our home for solar. With tax credits applied it was just over 19k. Would cost us 112 a month for 20 years. Would save around 80 a month average. Break even was 14.5 years. We passed. We will do insulation and replace our AC instead.

A slight hijack/caveat based on Dan's post:

Dan's was a wise and thought through choice.
Once people take the hyperbole and fanaticism and bandwagoneering out of it, they may find the same thing you and I did.

Break even at 12 to 15 years, AVERAGE person owns a home for 7.1 years.
No added value by appraisers is the GENERAL rule.

I can't begin to make it work for my place in Arizona, even though we, like others will claim, will not move again.
Break even means to me, only my losses are over. Now just another 14 years to be down to half price electric and another 14 to be at a real savings.
How many people would consider buying a 7 year old or 14 year old or 21 year old system off of Craigslist? I haven't read gj of this being even 1/10percent as common as buying new solar.
It's not the 19k I care about, it's the manbun/distressed jeans aspect of the math and culture involved.
Others find differently.

(I do have a solar set up. It's the hf 100w unit on a remote shed. I paid fifty bucks with a new Walmart deep cell big boat battery at a yard sale. I have yet to need a light out there but, at fifty bucks and ten minutes time, I have light and small power out there.)
It's math with me, then want.
Solar has a purpose as a hobby or want or remoteness. I'm not convinced it's much else.

 

[sleek98]

My system is going on next week. 11.92 kw 20 panels on the house to inverter 1 22 panels on the detached garage going to inverter 2. I am putting both inverters in the basement of the house, the local inspector did not have an issue with it. We have a 200 amp panel in the detached garage.

For us it was 10-11 years for a break even, our rates go up about 6% each year. This year is 8% going into effect next week.

It does not make sense for everyone. Also get multiple quotes, first quote we got was 3.42 a watt install, second was 2.81 a watt installed, and the third one was 3.85 a watt installed. It wouldn't make sense to use the third guy and the first one was likely wont pay off fast enough for me. My total cost after tax credits will be about 24k

Another thing to factor in is how old is your roof? Being a new build it was the right time to put the system on for me.

Second option is to run the inveter in the detached and then do a line side tap in the detached, however depending on how big the system that might not be an option.

 

[njhoudini]

My system is going on next week. 11.92 kw 20 panels on the house to inverter 1 22 panels on the detached garage going to inverter 2. I am putting both inverters in the basement of the house, the local inspector did not have an issue with it. We have a 200 amp panel in the detached garage.

For us it was 10-11 years for a break even, our rates go up about 6% each year. This year is 8% going into effect next week.

It does not make sense for everyone. Also get multiple quotes, first quote we got was 3.42 a watt install, second was 2.81 a watt installed, and the third one was 3.85 a watt installed. It wouldn't make sense to use the third guy and the first one was likely wont pay off fast enough for me. My total cost after tax credits will be about 24k

Another thing to factor in is how old is your roof? Being a new build it was the right time to put the system on for me.

Are you getting SRECs from the power company? I just got past permit approvals and the SRECs are going to accelerate the break even for me. I can only fit 10 panels for a 4.3kw system though.

Sent from my LG-H918 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[sleek98]

Are you getting SRECs from the power company? I just got past permit approvals and the SRECs are going to accelerate the break even for me. I can only fit 10 panels for a 4.3kw system though.

Sent from my LG-H918 using The Garage Journal mobile app

Our local power company is out of funds on their incentives, if they still had funds the break even would move to around 8 years. We have put in our application just in case they are granted more funds but I do not expect them to be allocated.

There are areas that it really makes sense to do it, if your electric rates are sub 10 cents it will likely never pay off, if your over 20 cents it will pay off pretty fast, between there its how long are you going to stay. We built the home and garage that we will have to stay here 20+ years to get the money out of it, so I am betting we will be money ahead on the system. I plan on tracking the savings per month to see how long it really takes to pay off.

 

[tyme2par4]

We just had a quote on our home for solar. With tax credits applied it was just over 19k. Would cost us 112 a month for 20 years. Would save around 80 a month average. Break even was 14.5 years. We passed. We will do insulation and replace our AC instead.

How big of a system was it?
typically it is always cheaper to save energy than generate it, so yes insulation and a new AC probably have a higher return.
As others have said, get multiple quotes.

If the wires are going directly from the solar panels to the house then I don't know how it could be considered a "branch circuit". It will have to go through a grid tie inverter and a meter before "connecting" to your grid feed. I don't know enough about solar hook up so I don't know if that connection is actually inside your existing load center (breaker box) or in a separate box. Usually an outside disconnect is required.

The average residential system will back feed through the main panel. In some cases where you have a large system, and don't want to upgrade to a larger service, the solar can be tapped into just behind the meter.

 

[njhoudini]

I'm paying around 17 cents currently so I am hoping it will be faster.

Sent from my LG-H918 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Bretny]

If you buy into one of these lease type systems dont forget that if your utility cancels net metering your systsm is worthless. Also if you sell your home is a binding lease with a company an asset or a liability? Who knows but personaly i wont buy a house that i would have to pay for pannels alreaty on the roof.

 

[Showkey]

Just think if the tax credits go away or the saving estimates are off..........double ***** as an investment. Maybe worse than the tankless water heaters.

 

[exranger06]

Many grid-tie systems are connected via a back-end breaker in the main panel. You could probably just install the breaker in the garage's subpanel and back feed it there and you wouldn't have to run any new wiring to the house.

 

[tyme2par4]

Just think if the tax credits go away or the saving estimates are off..........double ***** as an investment. Maybe worse than the tankless water heaters.

The tax credit will remain at 30% through 2019. After that it will decrease to 26% then 22% for 2020 and 2021 and expire for 2022.
Savings estimates that the solar company gives you are never a great thing to base your decision on. They're obviously going to pump that number up. You want to look at how much power they will produce, and then how that will offset your bill.

Many grid-tie systems are connected via a back-end breaker in the main panel. You could probably just install the breaker in the garage's subpanel and back feed it there and you wouldn't have to run any new wiring to the house.

You may be able to back feed a sub panel, but you would want to check with the inspector first. I've heard some do not allow it.

 

[Angelfire]

Many grid-tie systems are connected via a back-end breaker in the main panel. You could probably just install the breaker in the garage's subpanel and back feed it there and you wouldn't have to run any new wiring to the house.

Thank you (and for answering the original question.....thread has wandered way off from what I had asked). I had a person out and they seemed to think they would have to trench over to the house but I got to thinking why not just back feed through my garage's subpanel so will pursue that with them. My guess is that it needs to go through the meter which is at the house.

Cheers

 

[theoldwizard1]

My niece lives in the Tampa area and just bought a new house. They have been there for a couple of months and are now getting solar. FL is one of the few states that you can "harvest" enough solar to pay back in a reasonable amount of time.

As a matter of fact, they have signed with a company that has 1) estimated their average monthly electric bill which they will now pay to that company, 2) sized a solar system so that it will paid off in 12 years, 3) will loan them the money for installation and 4) that company will pay the power company and pay off the loan.

Of course this is not perfect. If your power consumption goes up you will owe money. If it goes down (not likely) your loan will be paid off early.

 

[Git]

My niece lives in the Tampa area and just bought a new house. They have been there for a couple of months and are now getting solar. FL is one of the few states that you can "harvest" enough solar to pay back in a reasonable amount of time.

As a matter of fact, they have signed with a company that has 1) estimated their average monthly electric bill which they will now pay to that company, 2) sized a solar system so that it will paid off in 12 years, 3) will loan them the money for installation and 4) that company will pay the power company and pay off the loan.

Of course this is not perfect. If your power consumption goes up you will owe money. If it goes down (not likely) your loan will be paid off early.

It sounds like 'that company' owns the system and if that is the case, they will get the 30% Federal Tax Credit. It almost sounds like your niece is getting into some sort of lease arrangement instead of an actual purchase?

Regarding the "your loan will be paid of early" if your power consumption goes down - It has been my experience that after a 12 month 'true-up', if you generated more electricity than you used, you're going to get paid pennies on the dollar for that electricity (Why would they pay you retail when they buy electricity at the wholesale rate which around here is about $.02 per kWh)

 

[CJ7VFR]

My niece lives in the Tampa area and just bought a new house. They have been there for a couple of months and are now getting solar. FL is one of the few states that you can "harvest" enough solar to pay back in a reasonable amount of time.

As a matter of fact, they have signed with a company that has 1) estimated their average monthly electric bill which they will now pay to that company, 2) sized a solar system so that it will paid off in 12 years, 3) will loan them the money for installation and 4) that company will pay the power company and pay off the loan.

Of course this is not perfect. If your power consumption goes up you will owe money. If it goes down (not likely) your loan will be paid off early.

It sounds like 'that company' owns the system and if that is the case, they will get the 30% Federal Tax Credit. It almost sounds like your niece is getting into some sort of lease arrangement instead of an actual purchase?.....

It sure sounds that way to me also.

Just replace the word "company" with the word "bank" or "car dealership" and the words "electric bill" and "solar panels" with the words "house" or "vehicle" and you have almost the exact wording for a lease.

Jim

 

[tdkkart]

I just got a letter from my insurance company that says that any solar equipment that produces more than 125% of the home's annual useage would not be covered. I assume they consider any larger systems to be a "business" and want you to have business insurance.

Our local electric service cartel convinced the state legislature to allow them to institute severe limitations on net metering, making it nearly impossible to ever turn a profit from producing solar energy. Systems installed before these changes(my father's) can still pay a decent return, later systems wl never do as well.

 

[sleek98]

They got the panels up on the detached garage yesterday before the rain started, have another 20 to go up on the house.

 

[tyme2par4]

Our local electric service cartel convinced the state legislature to allow them to institute severe limitations on net metering, making it nearly impossible to ever turn a profit from producing solar energy. Systems installed before these changes(my father's) can still pay a decent return, later systems wl never do as well.

The only way to change that is to get involved. Grass roots campaigns around the country have made a lot of progress for solar customers in the last few years.

 

[slow]

The rules won't change, they don't want you turning a profit. You should be able to minimize your use and cost, but thats about as far as it will go.

unfortunately, even living in FL with sub $0.09 kw/h cost I can't make a business case to add solar to my house without more than the federal 30% rebate.

 

[sleek98]

The rules won't change, they don't want you turning a profit. You should be able to minimize your use and cost, but thats about as far as it will go.

unfortunately, even living in FL with sub $0.09 kw/h cost I can't make a business case to add solar to my house without more than the federal 30% rebate.

at .09 kwh that is super cheap. I thought I had it cheap at .135 kwh delivered.

 

[Git]

I just got a letter from my insurance company that says that any solar equipment that produces more than 125% of the home's annual useage would not be covered. I assume they consider any larger systems to be a "business" and want you to have business insurance.

Our local electric service cartel convinced the state legislature to allow them to institute severe limitations on net metering, making it nearly impossible to ever turn a profit from producing solar energy. Systems installed before these changes(my father's) can still pay a decent return, later systems wl never do as well.

I don't understand all the concern about "turning a profit" with solar...

In S Cal, the cheapest rate a consumer pays for a kWh of electricity is about $.17 (it depends on what rate plan you're on)

However, the going 'wholesale' rate (the rate the power company pays to buy electricity to sell to you) is about $.03 per kWh

The power companies will buy your solar energy at the wholesale rate ($.03) - why in the world would you expect them to pay you the going retail rate ($.17)?

We are fortunate that at this point when excess electricity goes back onto the grid, we receive credit at the retail rate. It is only at the end of the 12 month 'true up' period that they pay the wholesale rate