Sounds like a damn good kid that got some life lessons and appreciates it now. I'm guessing if he gets a key to the shop, which says A LOT, then he'll be in the running for the family business.
The GDS Skunkworks, 4 FN 27's Shop Projects
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Sounds like a damn good kid that got some life lessons and appreciates it now. I'm guessing if he gets a key to the shop, which says A LOT, then he'll be in the running for the family business.
Strouty
Well-known member
5 axis would be awesome, can you add the extra two onto an three or is it not worth it?
My two axis will probably be around forever, it is set for manual and CNC, so I can easily use it for some quick loose tolerance type jobs. Besides it is a really fancy drill press too.
The local community college has a decent machine shop program, probably just sign up there, I too have issues with time and phones, probably be able to make the time in fall 2019, just enough time to learn some bad habits.
My two axis will probably be around forever, it is set for manual and CNC, so I can easily use it for some quick loose tolerance type jobs. Besides it is a really fancy drill press too.
The local community college has a decent machine shop program, probably just sign up there, I too have issues with time and phones, probably be able to make the time in fall 2019, just enough time to learn some bad habits.
Doc you are spot on. I cannot build anything unless I do it in 3D on the Computer first. The best part is once you have model you can build anything off of it (the data base) and modify as you go. As I build my inventory of Models I keep going back and digging up old stuff and create new stuff.
This is an incredible thread! I saw you were looking for a forklift some posts back. Unless you need additional capacity, a BoxCar Special forklift is a wonderful tool. Hyster makes something like an S80XLBCS2 that's basically an 8k forklift in the "frame" of a 5k. High stacked counterweight is the visual cue.
Thank you Matt.
I am still in the hunt for a Forklift. Not a high priority...hoping the guys at the Plant do a cost justification for a new one and I'll buy the old one for the trade in value.
There was a time where I couldn't trust a thing he said. He has made a 180 in his 25 years as a human. He had to learn the hard way not to bite the hand that offers lessons in life.
He has a key to the old shop. He is building it up just like I did when I was his age. My ol"man gave me the keys to an empty building he owned and I honestly believe it kept me from getting into trouble and kept me busy. He funded it and now it is my turn to pay it forward. But as mentioned it does not come without a price. He has to maintain my Dad's cars...and take care of the building. 10,000 ft and he is the only one using now other than storage for the "family vehicles".
He is a good kid and busts his *** most of the time. He was offered 6 hours of OT but passed it up to sleep in. When I was his age I jumped on every hour of OT I could get. Time and half to do the same job. Count me in. But he is him and I am me.
As far as the business...this legacy will be passed on to someone who can run it. If he can prove himself and he can afford it I am willing to sell my shares when the time is right. Just because you are family does not mean you are capable. There are too many families involved that I grew up with and care about to watch it go down the **** shoot.
My ol'Man sold his business out from underneath my brothers and I. It was his right. Best thing that ever happened. Barrowed some money and started a high tech fab shop with a card table and 3 chairs. 21 years later we earned it. Every square inch. And anyone who knows the whole story can respect it.
I have few other business owners I look up to who have 100 million dollar plus companies that looked at their kids and said that aint no way they are taking over. They have ownership but no control of day to day. Again the concern is the legacy and the employees and their families.
The Nephew has a good shot at it if he gets out of bed and ***** up the OT...LOL...and he knows it. I'll be sitting in my shop at home saying "Send Cash".
I would start with a new 5 Axis designed and built for the purpose. Just the way I am wired. Nothing wrong with adding if the machine is pre-set for it.
Head back to school...you'll laugh how much things have changed. It is all about your emotional wellbeing...LOL. I about puked when I had to go through their orientation. I had to remind the Councilor I have been wiping my own *** for 54 years.
Today we finally got my Material moved. Took one of our Dock Trucks. Transfer some of the Material from the old Cart I built 20 years ago. The used the Skid Steer to lift them off the truck. Note to self...next building needs a loading dock.
The old Cart and the New Cart. Will be building a couple more so I can sort my Material by type...when I have time.
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Then the Nephew wanted to see the Water Jet run. He has been running a Turret Press at the shop for the last 6 months. he caught on right away. Asking the best of questions. He gets it.
I ran a test program I made to check holes sizes and offsets. And we tried seeing how close we could squeeze the parts together. Ended up with a .019 web. I cannot believe what this thing is capable of.
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OK now the fun part. I dropped a weight to the bottom of the tank. Time to go "Magnet Fishing"...LOL...Got it!!!
The BIL suggested adding Gold Fish to the Tank for some excitement.
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The Nephew pulled my ol'buddies car out of storage a couple of weeks ago. It was at the old shop. A 1965 Impala that has been in his family since new. He, my BIL and I restored this thing back in 1988. Full Frame Off, added a 496, T-400 and 4.10 gears. Runs low 12's and he use to drive it to Brainerd International Raceway a mere 145 miles from the shop while pulling a pop-up camper.
He had to put in a new Water Pump. He had to modify the Alt Brakcket and did a fine job. The belt has seen it day. It came off when he hammed it away from a stop light. Oh well that is why God had them bolted together so we can fix them. Otherwise they would be welded.
Al navigating the behemoth...
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The BIL showing him the belt has reach its end of life.
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It was a great day.
Not sure what the plan is for tomorrow...shop clean up and organization maybe...and mowing...think time on the Tractor and Zero Turn to plan the next project.
Strouty
Well-known member
That is amazing how close you got those parts. Talk about no waste. Just plan awesome.
pamike
Well-known member
As far as the business...this legacy will be passed on to someone who can run it. If he can prove himself and he can afford it I am willing to sell my shares when the time is right. Just because you are family does not mean you are capable. There are too many families involved that I grew up with and care about to watch it go down the **** shoot.
Well said and spot-on. Maybe you want to make a trip to
Pennsylvania and explain that concept to my dad so that he can understand why I don't want to be business partners with my 2 absentee siblings.....
Well said and spot-on. Maybe you want to make a trip to
Pennsylvania and explain that concept to my dad so that he can understand why I don't want to be business partners with my 2 absentee siblings.....
Pat, that long write up says alot about you, your work ethic and as a business owner/boss.
Next building needs a truck dock ? Why not just add on to what you have right now ?
That machine is most impressive Pat, .019 - damn! How much penetration into the support fingers does it cut and is that a predetermined amount in the software or something you have to adjust and play with obviously dependent on material selection?
Your nephew must have been pretty young when his offensive behavior had the best of him. It's great to hear he was able to get his **** together to get your trust back. Good on both of you. Being like yourself (someone who busted his *** for what I've gotten out of life) it's not easy to fully open the door once you've lost my trust. But like you, choosing sleep over the almighty dollar would have me clinching my teeth. I was 12 when I pissed off my ole man enough for him to say to me, "you want something more outta life then what I can give you, then get a fkn job". I've worked ever since no matter what it took no questions asked. Based on your description I'd say he'll out grow that but as you know that's not the attitude required to run a business.
My kids are 29 and 22. Had I kept my contracting business alive there no doubt our 22yr old manchild would be of the mindset he'd be running it. Truth be told I'd have probably fired him by now. Our daughter on the other hand is just like me, relentless. I have no doubt she'd have been the one to carry on the legacy, that girls a rockstar. Your old man had his reasons and I'd bet the end result hopefully allowed you and your brothers to remain family. Like you, I've seen what happens when a business has been handed down without merit, it ain't pretty.
Your nephew must have been pretty young when his offensive behavior had the best of him. It's great to hear he was able to get his **** together to get your trust back. Good on both of you. Being like yourself (someone who busted his *** for what I've gotten out of life) it's not easy to fully open the door once you've lost my trust. But like you, choosing sleep over the almighty dollar would have me clinching my teeth. I was 12 when I pissed off my ole man enough for him to say to me, "you want something more outta life then what I can give you, then get a fkn job". I've worked ever since no matter what it took no questions asked. Based on your description I'd say he'll out grow that but as you know that's not the attitude required to run a business.
My kids are 29 and 22. Had I kept my contracting business alive there no doubt our 22yr old manchild would be of the mindset he'd be running it. Truth be told I'd have probably fired him by now. Our daughter on the other hand is just like me, relentless. I have no doubt she'd have been the one to carry on the legacy, that girls a rockstar. Your old man had his reasons and I'd bet the end result hopefully allowed you and your brothers to remain family. Like you, I've seen what happens when a business has been handed down without merit, it ain't pretty.
Mike family business can be good or it can be really ugly.
The reality is ownership is 100% separate from employment within the family business. Anyone who works there physically should be paid what that position would pay if they were not family and the maintain the expectation of performance as well and biggest thing of them all play by the same rules as your fellow employees family or not. This creates transparency to all involved.
But at the end of the year or every quarter or every month, you distribute the profits to the ownership based on their ownership position whether they work there or not. That is just how it goes. Think about it like owning stock in company X. You don't work there but you get a dividend check based on your ownership position.
Now if said siblings are on the payroll and absent that is an issue. They are a drain to the performance of the company and the company by all standards in my book is not considered real if you were to sell. This detracts from the shareholder value. And at the end of the day the ultimate valuation of any business is: Are the shares in the business worth more or less as compared to yesterday? All performance metrics within the business if governed correctly should make this happen.
In our company my younger brother is the CEO and I am a Special Project Manager or VP of Engineering depending on what time of day it might be...LOL. We are paid accordingly as it should be and when the Board of Directors determines to pay out a dividend it is paid out 50-50. We hold each other accountable and we are there daily. And for the most part we abide by the same rules as everyone else. There are some exceptions based on our/your position of ownership. There certain commitments/obligations on an ownership level that you may need time off for that do not count against your vacation. This keeps it transparent.
I know one family business where the Grandfather started the company. Grew it to 1000+ employees in 10 countries. None of his kids work in the family business but they all have an ownership position. His 21 Grandchildren have smaller ownership positions and 2 of them work there as employees. One as a Machinist and one as an Engineer. They are treated no different than anyone else. And they all get a dividend check as it should be. It is in their best interest to allow those who steer the ship to let them do what they do best...increase the value of the shares.
He has a team the leads and manages the company and they do very well at it and make the family very good money (after all that is what it is all about) and they, at the direction of the board reinvest to continue controlled growth of the company.
Sometimes it is best to buy out the partners. In the process you gain Shareholder position and if you are doing it right your shares increase in value. The ultimate goal.
My Dad said it best when his 5 kids worked for his company: "When your feet cross the threshold of that front door you are no longer family, you are an employee of the company." And he meant it and lived it. I have the ability to do that and my Brother struggles a tad with that. We are all different but at the end of the day we always do what is right...or so we think...and when we are wrong we admit it, learn and adjust. There is no perfection in how to run a family business.
Over the years I had a lot of mentors in life and in business. I listened and I learned. Made plenty of mistakes along the way and continue to learn today. A few of those people have left this earth but their lessons I carry with me daily.
Dock? I say this in jest. I may add a separate garage across from my main shop to do body work in. I enjoy doing it I just don't like the mess...maybe add a dock then...
Looks like mowing is a bust for today. Storms just rolled through...
Off to the shop I go...the clean up will begin.
CAM the .019 is impressive but even more so when you do it over 48 inches. I did a trim cut on a sheet. I'll put a pick up later tonight.
The Nephew has been a manipulator since he could walk. One Sunday morning when he was about 4, after my Nieces Baptism at my Sister's house, he walks up to me with a Beer and hands it to me. I said Al it is 9 am. He looked at me and said "Since you are having a Beer I can have a Coke." He knew how to get it done...I could tell stories for hours how he manipulated everyone with his charm. Then he got sloppy with it and manipulation became bold faced lies...like the day he got his Dad to give him the key's to my old Shop. He thought I was going to be out of town...my plans changed. I caught him working on his car with his buddies and I had told him already he need to bring his Dad with. Well he told his Dad I said it was OK. I found that out when the BIL told me...the Pin fell out of my grenade...
I push his car out in the 0 degree weather, him and his buds with it and locked the door. They could finish the water pump outside with whatever tools they had. I took the key grabbed what I needed and headed home. I was F'ing mad!!!
A week later he apologized and I explain the ramifications of what he had done by lying. I think that was the turning point. That was 8 years ago. You F'me dry while looking me in the eye you are out for a very long time of proving yourself worthy again.
As far as your kids you only hand them rope...enough to hang themselves. They can think what they want but they need to prove they are worthy of running the business. Ownership is a whole different ballgame. Anyone is capable of Ownership, not everyone is capable of running it.
Sunday and yesterday I did a lot of rearranging and organizing. But once my allergies kicked I sat down at my Desk and designed a X & Y Stop where I can locate Material off and add holes or patterns. Also designed a clamping system to hold the material.
One would think 50-60K of pressure coming down would hold the material down but that water comes back up with much less force however it covers a bigger area causing the sheets to float. Thus I have an assortment of weights. I'll give the clamp system a shot...
Off I go...closing down my day job office to pilfer a 2 foot 4 foot sheet of 1/4 Stainless from the Shear Dept. Not much of a pilfer job since I'll have them give me a hand lifting it...LOL...
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Pat - if I may call you by your first name having never met you. I have to say I really like your attitude and the direction your moral compass points. As a co-business owner myself with a son that works for us; I completely agree with your assessments about family, employees and business.
We have 50+ employees and are ever growing. It's hard to keep the family culture and grow at the same time. It could be my heirs are up to the task and maybe they are not. Time will tell, they will get the same chance everyone else does, nothing more, probably they will even have higher scrutiny.
Thanks for sharing your philosophies, a lot to be learned by sharing life lessons with one another. Hopefully we can sometimes save others from making the same mistakes we have.
We have 50+ employees and are ever growing. It's hard to keep the family culture and grow at the same time. It could be my heirs are up to the task and maybe they are not. Time will tell, they will get the same chance everyone else does, nothing more, probably they will even have higher scrutiny.
Thanks for sharing your philosophies, a lot to be learned by sharing life lessons with one another. Hopefully we can sometimes save others from making the same mistakes we have.
pamike
Well-known member
I also agree 100% about your comments on family business. You are exactly right.
My concern, in my situation, is I think its IDEAL to have employees that are owners and running the company as opposed to owners that are absentee due to the fact that they inherited the business stock from a parent. As long as the employee is capable I would take a non family employee owner over an absentee family owner. I think inheritance breeds bad traits such as entitlement and complacency...
My concern, in my situation, is I think its IDEAL to have employees that are owners and running the company as opposed to owners that are absentee due to the fact that they inherited the business stock from a parent. As long as the employee is capable I would take a non family employee owner over an absentee family owner. I think inheritance breeds bad traits such as entitlement and complacency...
You can call me anything...I have been called everything!!!
I appreciate the kind words. I struggled for quite some time and I really can't go into it here. Don't need a lawsuit filed against me...all I can say is family business can get messy. Transparency is the key. Everyone must know their role and their worth...good or bad. If not they should not work there. PERIOD.
We have our arms around it!!! And I am having fun again!!!
Mike I agree and somewhat disagree. Your ol'Man's wishes are his. The decision he makes becomes your hand of cards to play. If they are shareholders even through an inheritance it should not matter if they are family or not. The question you have to ask yourself when you examine you motives is what decisions would be made if they were not family and run with those decisions. Easy to say and very hard to do.
The best thing you can do is offer them a buy out. But you will have to be careful you may be the minority in the membership which gives them the majority and the buyout becomes more expensive from a valuation standpoint. But it can be done.
Or let them have ownership while being absent and write yourself a performance plan backed by an independent party (consultant everyone agrees to) and comp yourself based on that plan. No one can argue that you earned the performance pay if the company is meeting the goals set in the plan. Your comp package will be yours and they are only entitled to dividends based on the boards approval. You will have to put an advisory board together, those who have no skin in the game and no favoritism. This creates the transparency.
Drop me a PM with your number. I have been there and done that.
Tonight in the shop I Jetted the parts for my X -Y Fence assembly.
I figured out the Tabbing feature so parts aren't dropping to the bottom of the Tank. But I did drop another weight tonight...aaaarrrggg!!! Fishing again tomorrow afternoon.
Cutting 1/4 inch Stainless like butter...
Gotta dig the $1.59 plunger I purchased from Fleet Farm. Sure beats the Foam Blocks they send and should last quite a while. Just had to enlarge the hole to 7/8 of an inch...cheapest part of the machine!!!
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The Tabbing feature work great. Just need to create a log book of Tab Sizes related to Material type and thickness. .020 on 1/4 inch is just about right.
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Tomorrow afternoon I'll weld all the 1/4 Nuts on and Tap and weld the Stops...
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I am happy with the purchase of this fine machine. I love it!!!
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I finished up the X - Y Stop Fence tonight. I thought I would get a lot more done today...for some reason I was thinking last night was Thursday and today was Friday. Got into the office this morning and our Scheduler asked me to speak at the All Employee Monthly Meeting. I gave the deer in the headlights look...what the hell are we have the meeting on Friday for?
She pointed out it is Thursday. Took me about 5 minutes to wrap my head around that. Some how, some way I lost a day this week???
Tomorrow I'll have to order some Hardware from McMaster. The bolts that came with the Machine are a little short.
Fence in place:
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Welded the Stop Adjuster on. Plug welded from the bottom then welded all around on the top.
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Tab and slot...I run them about 1/32 short so I don't have to grind them flat.
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Plug Welded...
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Not sure what the plan is tomorrow with the lack of mounting hardware. Guess I'll have to figure out what's next on the to do list.
Saturday I get to fly in a T6 Texan from Air Show to Air Show. Looking forward to this opportunity. We are flying from Blaine Airport to the Wings and Wheels Airplane and Car show in Osceola WI. From there we do a fly over, not sure where at or if I get to partake in that part of the venture. The FAA has rules governing Air Shows. I will find out at the Pilot Briefing. Either way I am sure I will enjoy it.
She pointed out it is Thursday. Took me about 5 minutes to wrap my head around that. Some how, some way I lost a day this week???
Tomorrow I'll have to order some Hardware from McMaster. The bolts that came with the Machine are a little short.
Fence in place:
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Welded the Stop Adjuster on. Plug welded from the bottom then welded all around on the top.
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Tab and slot...I run them about 1/32 short so I don't have to grind them flat.
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Plug Welded...
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Not sure what the plan is tomorrow with the lack of mounting hardware. Guess I'll have to figure out what's next on the to do list.
Saturday I get to fly in a T6 Texan from Air Show to Air Show. Looking forward to this opportunity. We are flying from Blaine Airport to the Wings and Wheels Airplane and Car show in Osceola WI. From there we do a fly over, not sure where at or if I get to partake in that part of the venture. The FAA has rules governing Air Shows. I will find out at the Pilot Briefing. Either way I am sure I will enjoy it.
customh
Well-known member
I take it the fence aids greatly in setups? (you know "where you're at" on the table) Are the rest of the holes for mounting to the table slats?
Travis you are 100% on...
I like to know where I am at on the table. This will allow me to establish a home zero for locating already made parts and added features to them.
One of the things I really want to do is cut custom foam for my Gun Cases. This will make that a breeze.
Just when I was about top shut down for the week I see my emails are popping up like crazy. Orders coming in...it has to be Friday. I swear every boss out there say "you have to have this done by the end of the week." Sure enough they get it done and it all lands in my inbox of Friday afternoon!!! Might have to come in over the weekend...dang...
Needed a Mount for a Dial Indicator so I can square up the Fence...
Had some hunks of 6061-T6 1/2 inch thick plate laying around. Full of holes. Design the part and cut around the holes. Worked out pretty dang good.
I am surprised it can cut .252 dia hole though 1/2 plate. I found a couple of slug sitting on the slats. They measure .215 at the top and .200 at the bottom.
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Fit like a glove.
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Once I get my arms around all of its capabilities I am going to order the Tilt-a-Jet head for it. Then I can control the tapper on thick parts.
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Tomorrow will be a day off. Flying...can't wait!!! I'll put pics up...
Had some hunks of 6061-T6 1/2 inch thick plate laying around. Full of holes. Design the part and cut around the holes. Worked out pretty dang good.
I am surprised it can cut .252 dia hole though 1/2 plate. I found a couple of slug sitting on the slats. They measure .215 at the top and .200 at the bottom.
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Fit like a glove.
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Once I get my arms around all of its capabilities I am going to order the Tilt-a-Jet head for it. Then I can control the tapper on thick parts.
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Tomorrow will be a day off. Flying...can't wait!!! I'll put pics up...
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Damn Pat. You just keep showing all of us up don’t ya. [emoji12]
Pure artwork my friend.
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
First off that clamp is just way too cool Pat. I've never seen a design like that, is it one you came up with? Regardless, I'm gonna have to steal that basic design principle and use it on some future car project.
Now for the tapper of that slug. How does this "tilt a whirl" or whatever it's called work? Does it have some type of control that keeps the head perfectly perpendicular to the cut. It would seem to me that the tapper is caused by imposed forces of the X/Y drives and not just a simple angular alignment issue. If it where the latter I'd assume the cut would just be shaped like a parallelogram. Just wondering
Gawd that Friday thing, the last minute rush BS. I always hated that. Being I catered to many a data center my calls would normally come late Thursday afternoon with a site investigation first thing Friday morning, then a mad rush all day to be ready to rock at some point over the weekend. It paid well but it was so consistent it really got old after many years.
Now for the tapper of that slug. How does this "tilt a whirl" or whatever it's called work? Does it have some type of control that keeps the head perfectly perpendicular to the cut. It would seem to me that the tapper is caused by imposed forces of the X/Y drives and not just a simple angular alignment issue. If it where the latter I'd assume the cut would just be shaped like a parallelogram. Just wondering
Gawd that Friday thing, the last minute rush BS. I always hated that. Being I catered to many a data center my calls would normally come late Thursday afternoon with a site investigation first thing Friday morning, then a mad rush all day to be ready to rock at some point over the weekend. It paid well but it was so consistent it really got old after many years.
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customh
Well-known member
Looks good. How's that taper compare to the lasers? Looking forward to the pics and story on the bird ride.
You heard it here first folks- he's just like us.
Don't you all have a giant pile of equipment at your disposal too?Agreed, I think I know the answer but I'm curious to hear.
Nothing to do with X-Y forces- It's a "focus" issue from the little he's educated me- at least with the lasers. I'm assuming this is similar, the water pressure and jet shape are changing as it A. cuts through the material and B. gets farther away from the nozzle.
Holds true being in charge of maintenance of just one building and equipment in it. Friday afternoon is commonly a mad rush to put out fires, yesterday was no different. 2:30 a piece of equipment was having odd issues. 3:30 taking a break from diagnosis and dis/re-assembly and a dock door won't operate. Quick walk and sensor adjustment and that's good to go. Back to the other equipment and figured out that stupid issue and put it back together and online by 5. Get home shower and meet the wife and friends for dinner by 6:30.
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
I was thinking the same thing, that's really clever!
Aint gonna lie...I saw this clamp style years ago. Can't remember where but OMax uses it to Clamp "things. So who am I not to barrow it???
The Tilt-a-Jet head does exactly what you think. Tilts the head in a 4th axis to maintain a perpendicular edge to the surface. The Machine is preset-up for it. Just mere $6500.00's away...
You are close on the forces. There is an option called an A-Jet which you can tilt the head to within 30 degrees of the surface. This does reduce the accuracy of the machine for the exact reason you stated...forces. 50000 psi...the downside to the A-Jet head is you loose working area by 1 foot on all sides of a 55 x 55 inch sheet. If you get too close to the Sides of the tank you can and will cut through them. So they put hard stops on the machine if you have this option installed.
The Water Jets has 3-4 time the Taper...far as I can tell right now. I'll see if we have some 1/2 plate cut at the plant on Monday to compare.
The Ride is coming up...lets just say I might get my Pilots License...LOL...
You heard it here first folks- he's just like us.
Dude...really I am...I put my pants on 1 leg at a time just like the rest of you blokes...well when we decide to wear pants.
I have been blessed. I am grateful but it has not come without a few minefields filled with broken glass.
Thank you sir!!!
Ok I got to the Anoka County Airport before the Pilot did. He came in on 2 wheels around the corner in a Black Corvette. I new right then it was going to be fun.
We Taxied out about 7:30 to meet up with 2 planes coming in from the Southwest Metro. Once Airborne we found spotted the other planes and they fell into formation right behind us. Then we headed to WI about 5 minutes at 175 MPH. We picked up another plane taking off from New Richmond.
The practiced a few things and we started the approach to the destination Osceola WI. We circled once then made a hard bank while dropping altitude with an alarm going off...I was like what the hell...then we leveled out and touchdown. Total air time was less then a 1/2 an hour. But cool as all get out.
They had a flight briefing with the FAA for the Hay Days Snowmobile Show where they were going to do a fly over. I had to sit this one out since the FAA said no nonessential crew can be on the plane.
That gave me time to check out the cars and see a snowmobile buddy of mine's Hanger he just built. Fricken awesome...I should have taken pics. Some of these Hangers are incredible.
I saw a Huey come in and a B-25. Met the pilots and chit chatted. Spent an hour with 1 of the Huey owners and I might be going u to play with those guys. We will see. I have to call him this week. They do reenactments and are looking for abled bodied guys that want to sling themselves to the sides...count me in...
At about 3 pm we fueled and hit the air. My Pilot was in a hurry to make it back. He was balls to the wall. He had the Tach right on the edge of the danger zone. He did another steep approach diving onto the runway. It was bad ***!!! From the minute we touched down I bet it was 10 minutes and everything was put away and I was on the road.
An awesome experience...last year I went up in a friend helicopter...he is an instructor...I think I might get my License....Talked briefly with my Wife and she is OK with it...
I have pics and video. Hard to get situated with a Camera in such a small space...
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customh
Well-known member
Man the flight looks fun! Everything associated seems like it was a good time too!
I'm assuming no mention of the cut shape question means I answered correctly? I just don't want bad info out there/assumptions being made if I'm wrong. After I wrote it I did consider that 50k psi might cause some deflection.
Looking forward to hearing about the taper difference. Will be talking to you tomorrow about a couple upcoming jobs.
I'm assuming no mention of the cut shape question means I answered correctly? I just don't want bad info out there/assumptions being made if I'm wrong. After I wrote it I did consider that 50k psi might cause some deflection.
Looking forward to hearing about the taper difference. Will be talking to you tomorrow about a couple upcoming jobs.
The flight was more fun than a guy should have!!!
I missed the question??? And after careful review I am still missing it???? I am hard of hearing and maybe reading now as I age...LOL...please repeat question for an ol'Man...LOL...
Taper is about 3-4 time more than a Laser...
Yesterday I mowed the law and started my Plow Conversion for my Skid Steer. A buddy scrapped his old plow truck and gave me the Plow assembly off of it.
I started by designing a mount for my JD 3720 and then thinking about it why not the Skid Steer. Spent last night designing it...should be cutting parts later this week.
Got everything disassembled and cut apart the "truck half" of the Mount and welded a tube on it...then it was time to call it quits. My Wife informed me my Ice Cream was melting and the shop should be shut down at 10 pm on Sunday nights...LOL...
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Yippy!!! My new uniforms came in...wore the old ones for 19 years and they were shot...
Off to do a little volunteer work...
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4 FN 27 that is one awesome flight, thank you for sharing.
The plow conversion should be a cool project pat.
You either eat alot of ice cream or it's code for something else.
customh
Well-known member
LXCam said that- you answered part 1 asking how the tilt works- but part 2 was hidden- "It would seem to me that the tapper is caused by imposed forces of the X/Y drives and not just a simple angular alignment issue. If it where the latter I'd assume the cut would just be shaped like a parallelogram. Just wondering"
I then answered and am wondering if I said/assumed correctly:
Is the taper/ conical/hourglass cut shape caused by a similar "focus" [aperture?] issue to the lasers? Just exaggerated due to the basic operating principles of the water jet?
Very close, almost spot on. Where the Laser takes a "Beam" and converges the beam to a point, (Focal Point) and then it diverges. So when we are cutting thin metal we use 5 inch Focal Point Lens and thick Material we use 7 inch Focal Point Lens. The new Fiber machines have auto focus where they can create a Focal Point up to 10 inch off the surface of the material. Typically the focal point is anywhere from the top of the material to 40% into the material...depending on the material type.
The Water Jet, the stream diverges the moment it leaves the Nozzle and just keeps getting bigger...doing the math, the angle of tapper is 0.859372243644058°.
I'll be looking at the Tilt-a-jet Head after the first of the year.
Last night I got home a bit late. I worked on my Plow design at the office so I could print a few things. I need a printer in the shop.
I have been going without a printer trying to go paperless like everyone wants to do in our plant. The experiment at the home shop is proving to be a challenge. I load the stuff up on my Laptop and assume it is fixed at any given machine I am working on just like it would be at the Plant. It makes it a challenge not being able to carry a print with you to go get tooling say for instance the press brake. I find myself writing the info down taking more time.
I could see if we were an OEM making it work but I am not sure if there would be any productivity gain in our Job Shop. When the topic comes up again I will let them move forward with a limited number of machines in a single department and remind them of what I have said many times before "Be careful of what you ask for, you will get it." Now I know there will be a few that will do their best to make it work, and I am hoping it does. But I remember something my Dad use to say when I worked for him..."Give me a Rowboat and I can make it to downtown St Paul but it would be a hell of lot easier to drive".
The design model is complete, I'll outputs DXF's when there is a lull in the action here at the office and start cutting the parts tonight.
I also finished cutting the extra brackets that are in the way off the old plow mount. The Sawsall all gave me a pounding last night. I just need to finish grinding the rest of the Brackets off.
Thanks for the education guys. It's funny, things like this I'll never forget. Hell I can tell you what spring pressures or lifter preload I did a couple dozen motors ago. But ask me to remember my anniversary date even after 30yrs and I'm Fd.
customh
Well-known member
Glad I wasn't off base.
On the paperless topic- I've tried! There are just situations where having printed copies just makes sense and is the most efficient. Until e-paper is more robust or screens/tablets are feather light and bulletproof it just isn't going to make sense. If you have a large desk or bench and 6 drawings on 11x17 paper you have a "Screen" as large as your desk/bench. I'm rambling and could go on about the merits of paper drawings etc. for quite some time but I think we all know what I'm talking about.
On the paperless topic- I've tried! There are just situations where having printed copies just makes sense and is the most efficient. Until e-paper is more robust or screens/tablets are feather light and bulletproof it just isn't going to make sense. If you have a large desk or bench and 6 drawings on 11x17 paper you have a "Screen" as large as your desk/bench. I'm rambling and could go on about the merits of paper drawings etc. for quite some time but I think we all know what I'm talking about.
MNSam
Well-known member
That flight looks like a riot. Do you do a lot of air tours or flying?
No Sir...I did some volunteer work for the MN Air National Guard through good friend of mine. He arranged the Flight and surprised me with it at a presentation at the MNANG Museum. But who knows...maybe a new pursuit.
My buddy sent me this pic yesterday...me with the plane I owe him one. He was an Aircraft Mechanic during the early stages of Vietnam. He is too big to fit in one of these so I think I might buy him a seat on a B-25 Bomber. He deserves it. I'll be sitting next to him.
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Tonight I finish cutting and grinding all the Brackets of the Mount. What a pain. Now I know why I typically build things from scratch.
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The I fired up the Jet. Dialed in the Fence now that I have Hardware.
Threw a hunk of .875 thick HRP&O in and let'er buck...
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I cannot get over how perfect the parts are.
I need to work on the Cutting Conditions. Inside Radii come out small based on the speed as far as I can tell right now. Looks like I'll have to go to a slower speed on inside Radii on the thick stuff.
I'll call my buddy in North Carolina tomorrow and get his opinion. He has been running one of these Omax's since 2001.
The hole size came out .003 big...I knew I should not have messed with the Cutter Comp...I knew it!!! Oh well big is OK...small mean setting up the Mill and cleaning it out.
Tomorrow night I hope to have the rest of the parts cut and start welding. The goal is have it ready for Sand Blasting Friday night.
Man that looks like so much fun Pat! By that I mean BOTH the ride in the vintage bird AND knocking out some really nice parts with that waterjet to scratch a project off the list. I'm still debating which I'm more jealous about �� (I know which one I'd take if given the option though!)
I don't think your truck plow will mind the 0.003 variance? The original manufacturer was likely measuring in 1/16ths. Look forward to seing what's next!
I don't think your truck plow will mind the 0.003 variance? The original manufacturer was likely measuring in 1/16ths. Look forward to seing what's next!
You are spot on. The way it was explained to me is that you can't think of a water jet as a straight line - its curved. Think about when you are spraying your garden hose. If you quickly pan back and forth, the spot in which the water actually hitting lags behind where your nozzle is actually pointed. Same thing is true for water jets to a much smaller, but still significant degree. By the time the jet is breaking through the bottom of the plate, the nozzle is already moving in a different direction. The jet itself it now taking a "shortcut" around the corner, resulting in a smaller than desired radius. Not a big deal when traveling in a straight line or on thin material, but you will notice it on thick material.
I suspect that the top is probably pretty close to nominal, but the bottom is probably too tight.
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pamike
Well-known member
You are a little OCD!!...good grief ... Its a plow, most of those old junk pieces of **** have 100 thou of play and your worried about .003!!!
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
That's what we like about guys like Pat, Mike, Clyde, and Cam; their OCD pushes the rest of us to do better. I'm curious to see what kind of tolerances Pat will be able to ring out of this machine.
pamike
Well-known member
Oh I know. Just rattling his cage a bit. Combine a little OCD and a bunch of high tech equipment and amazing things can result.
I love sorting things like this out. I love your explanation!
LOL..."It is better to aim at perfection and missed than it is to aim at imperfection and hit".
I use to drive my Race Car crew nuts with precision...when setting up the clutch I would have them get it to within .0005. Why? Because then we knew it was right. When 1 gram of weight can make or break the run .0005 can do the same.
I live in a world of perfection at work...there is no room for error. We are a Precision Sheet Metal Fabrication Shop. +/-.005 is the norm and I love it...I love the challenge. I am skilled at the XYZ world and can only dream of being the artist type in Fabrication like some of those whom IO see here showing their projects. I am envious of that skill type.
I don't rattle easily...walking minefields all my life has taught me one thing...the worse possible thing is I could die. And that hasn't happen yet...LOL...
I appreciate the kind words.
Last night I broke the Jet. I was on the home stretch cutting the last 1/4 plate items I need and the sheet "stress relieved" as I was cutting and the Nozzle gap was compromised. Thus the Jet Stream had no where to go except up through the Abrasive Feeder Tube. In the process of fixing the issue I broke the Jam Nut that holds the Mixing Tube.
The Nut is like a Flare Nut and has a Carbide Washer glued to it to protect it from blowback. Well I don't have a spare. But my good friend and shooting partner has an Omax where he works. He called his Prototype Foreman for me this morning and there is a Nut sitting with the receptionist with my name on it. Guess where I am going this morning after rush hour traffic dies down...part of the recovery plan!!!
And I will be ordering a bunch of spare parts this morning...I would rather have an inventory of spares than be down for the weekend!!!
