Romex in conduit??

[rd65]

I was told the other day I can put romex in conduit for up to 5'. Is this true? I live in Wa, NEC 2017.
Also, how close can I put a 40 amp outlet to my shop panel?
Thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was told the other day I can put romex in conduit for up to 5'. Is this true? I live in Wa, NEC 2017.
Also, how close can I put a 40 amp outlet to my shop panel?
Thanks

Did you try the search feature?

Theres several recent threads on this subject

And you can install the outlet as close as you want to the panel.

BTW there are no 40a outlets so not sure what youre referring to.

 

[alfredeneuman]

You can put an unlimited length of NM in conduit.
You just need to pay attention to the fill requirements located at the beginning of Chapter 9. They're a lot different than individual conductors and will require larger conduit.
EDIT: NM is measured at the widest point.

 

[rd65]

Did you try the search feature?

Theres several recent threads on this subject

And you can install the outlet as close as you want to the panel.

BTW there are no 40a outlets so not sure what youre referring to.

First of all this is all new to me, electrical. I am building a new shop-also new to me. I have a 30 amp outlet to install and was going to use that for compressor, future welder, and was going to plug an overhead heater into it as well. The heater I have seen pull 31-32 amps so I thought I would install a 40 amp outlet. But you say those don't exist so I will install a 30 and go from there.
I never have any luck on searching these forums. Time is limited as is patience.
Thanks for your help. I have seen your posts many times on here. guess I will be searching unless someone can answer.

 

[rd65]

You can put an unlimited length of NM in conduit.
You just need to pay attention to the fill requirements located at the beginning of Chapter 9. They're a lot different than individual conductors and will require larger conduit.
EDIT: NM is measured at the widest point.

I don't have a book so no access to chapter 9. Just need to get it from the surface mounted panel to ceiling, about 5'. I was just going to use the same 2" plastic that I used for my feeder line since I have some left. I am not an electrician. I have someone that is going to check my work before I call for inspection. I have never done electrical, besides a class in high school over 35 years ago. It is a very basic install. 13 total outlets on 2 20 amp circuits (5 on one, 8 on other), 16 4' LED on separate 20 amp, and a 30 amp socket. I did not know there was no such thing as a 40 amp socket.

 

[Ray-CA]

I'm not an electrician so take this for what it's worth. My understanding about the current concerns of romex in conduit is heat. I ran roughly 20-ft of 12-2 in a 1.5 inch grey pvc pipe underground for our electric gate.

Ray

 

[PCustoms]

I ran roughly 20-ft of 12-2 in a 1.5 inch grey pvc pipe underground for our electric gate.

Ray

That is a code violation

 

[wyliesdiesels]

First of all this is all new to me, electrical. I am building a new shop-also new to me. I have a 30 amp outlet to install and was going to use that for compressor, future welder, and was going to plug an overhead heater into it as well. The heater I have seen pull 31-32 amps so I thought I would install a 40 amp outlet. But you say those don't exist so I will install a 30 and go from there.
I never have any luck on searching these forums. Time is limited as is patience.
Thanks for your help. I have seen your posts many times on here. guess I will be searching unless someone can answer.

Well we need to back up a few steps.

What is the HP rating on the compressor? If more than 3 HP, then it must be hardwired- an outlet will not be code compliant.

If the heater is rated 31-32a then you cannot plug that into a 30a outlet either since its rated for more than 30a. And since a heater is considered a continuous load, the circuit wire needs to be sized @ 125%. What does the manual say?

I don't have a book so no access to chapter 9. Just need to get it from the surface mounted panel to ceiling, about 5'. I was just going to use the same 2" plastic that I used for my feeder line since I have some left. I am not an electrician. I have someone that is going to check my work before I call for inspection. I have never done electrical, besides a class in high school over 35 years ago. It is a very basic install. 13 total outlets on 2 20 amp circuits (5 on one, 8 on other), 16 4' LED on separate 20 amp, and a 30 amp socket. I did not know there was no such thing as a 40 amp socket.

The NFPA 70 (NEC) is available for free online on nfpa's website.

And since your experience is limited, you should have them check your plan before you waste money on time and materials that will have to be taken out.

I'm not an electrician so take this for what it's worth. My understanding about the current concerns of romex in conduit is heat. I ran roughly 20-ft of 12-2 in a 1.5 inch grey pvc pipe underground for our electric gate.

Ray

There is no concern about heat and NM-b wiring in pipe. It is allowed.

BTW if the 12-2 wire you ran underground is white or yellow jacketed then that is a code violation as NM-b is not permitted to be used underground or in wet locations...

 

[rd65]

Compressor is 1.9 hp. Its a Craftsman Pro 27 gallon dual voltage unit. Currently its set up for 120v.

I don't have the heater yet, was reading manuals online before purchasing.
Good to know on the code book, thanks. I will have to check it out.

The romex/NM will go from shop panel up to ceiling then across attic space to a box to change to thhn in 1/2" emc to outlets. The 2" reference was just because that is what I will have on hand as left over from running power out to shop. Plan is to run 3 12-2 romex up the 2" conduit for approx. 5'. This is because I plan to surface mount the panel.

I tried searching for answer to this but could not find on here - My outlets will be 45" off the concrete floor. As of 20 minutes ago I have been told they need to be Tamper Resistant when before I was told they do not need to be. Which is correct?

Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.

 

[bubinga]

First of all this is all new to me, electrical. I am building a new shop-also new to me. I have a 30 amp outlet to install and was going to use that for compressor, future welder, and was going to plug an overhead heater into it as well. The heater I have seen pull 31-32 amps so I thought I would install a 40 amp outlet. But you say those don't exist so I will install a 30 and go from there.
I never have any luck on searching these forums. Time is limited as is patience.
Thanks for your help. I have seen your posts many times on here. guess I will be searching unless someone can answer.

Me either ........20 pp. of un-related posts.

 

[mike93lx]

I tried searching for answer to this but could not find on here - My outlets will be 45" off the concrete floor. As of 20 minutes ago I have been told they need to be Tamper Resistant when before I was told they do not need to be. Which is correct?

Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.

the requirement is 5.5' to skip on TR:

All nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in the following areas of a dwelling unit [210.52] must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.12].

Wall space — 210.52(A)
Small-appliance circuit — 210.52(B)
Countertop space — 210.52(C)
Bathroom area — 210.52(D)
Outdoors — 210.52(E)
Laundry area — 210.52(F)
Garage and outbuildings — 210.52(G)
Hallways — 210.52(H)
Exception: Receptacles in the following locations aren’t required to be tamper-resistant:

Receptacles located more than 5½ ft above the floor.
Receptacles that are part of a luminaire or appliance.
A receptacle located within dedicated space for an appliance that in normal use isn’t easily moved from one place to another.
Nongrounding receptacles used for replacements as permitted in 406.4(D)(2)(a).
Nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in guest rooms and guest suites must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.13]. In addition, nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in child care facilities must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.14].



took about a 2 second google search to get that result.

When searching GJ, skip on the integrated search. use google. just start the search with site: garagejournal.com

 

[rburke65]

Did you try the search feature?

Theres several recent threads on this subject

And you can install the outlet as close as you want to the panel.

BTW there are no 40a outlets so not sure what youre referring to.

Would you please explain “there are no 40a outlets”.

 

[alfredeneuman]

40amp receptacles and cord caps aren't made. They go directly from 30A to 50A.

For 40 amp circuit the correct receptacle is 50amp.

 

[rd65]

Pulling wire and hooking up panels tomorrow. I am thinking this deal just went sideways. I was looking in the house panel today and see that the dryer wiring, 30A, has splits in it-both hot wires-every 4"-5". While the breaker has never tripped in the 7 years we have owned the house I am guessing the inspector will see this and stop everything.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Pulling wire and hooking up panels tomorrow. I am thinking this deal just went sideways. I was looking in the house panel today and see that the dryer wiring, 30A, has splits in it-both hot wires-every 4"-5". While the breaker has never tripped in the 7 years we have owned the house I am guessing the inspector will see this and stop everything.

what do you mean by splits in it?

Do you have a pic?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Would you please explain “there are no 40a outlets”.

Lookup nema receptacle chart.

 

[rd65]

what do you mean by splits in it?

Do you have a pic?

 

[enochian]

I'm not an electrician so take this for what it's worth. My understanding about the current concerns of romex in conduit is heat. I ran roughly 20-ft of 12-2 in a 1.5 inch grey pvc pipe underground for our electric gate.

Ray

You can't run Romex in conduit outside.

Inside yes.

Outside no.

 

[mike93lx]

You can't run Romex in conduit outside.

Inside yes.

Outside no.

You can't use romex outside at all, conduit or not

 

[enochian]

You can't use romex outside at all, conduit or not

Thats what I'm saying.

 

[mike93lx]

Thats what I'm saying.

May have been what you intended or were thinking, but your qualifier of "in conduit" made it unclear.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Looks like someone did a poor job stripping the jacket.

Are the conductors damaged?

If not then i would just wrap it with tapr...

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I would first! Kill power at the source!!!
Then if just insulation is damaged, wire ok, I would use heat shrink tubing instead of tape. Two layers would be best, using same insulation color. Heat shrink isn't expensive, just takes a few minutes. But be 100+% sure no power!!!!!

 

[bubinga]

i would first! Kill power at the source!!!
Then if just insulation is damaged, wire ok, i would use heat shrink tubing instead of tape. Two layers would be best, using same insulation color. Heat shrink isn't expensive, just takes a few minutes. But be 100+% sure no power!!!!!

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......................................this.....................................................

 

[rd65]

I am liking these answers to my wiring issue. Napa carries red heat shrink so that is the route I will take. I like that better than tape. Just something else to add to the list before the inspector comes out. Hoping to have my panel wired up today.

 

[rd65]

BTW there is/was not going to be romex outside. there will be 3 12-2 pieces in 2" conduit going from panel to ceiling. All will be interior.

 

[rd65]

The panel is in.
Question- does sub panel in shop need ground rods if it hass ground wire to house panel? the guy that helped with panel install today says no. I thought I needed 2 ground rods. ???

 

[bubinga]

Attached or detached garage?

 

[alfredeneuman]

If detached it needs rods.
If attached, no rods are necessary.

 

[bubinga]

If detached it needs rods.
If attached, no rods are necessary.

Correct.
Your ground and neutral are not bonded together in the sub panel are they?

They should not be.

 

[rd65]

Correct.
Your ground and neutral are not bonded together in the sub panel are they?

They should not be.

detached garage, by 200'. Ground bar is separate from neutral bar.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The ground wire to the rods (the GEC) must be terminated to the ground bar.
A #6 GEC doesn't need to be in conduit if it's run tight to the surface on the structure.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The panel is in.
Question- does sub panel in shop need ground rods if it hass ground wire to house panel? the guy that helped with panel install today says no. I thought I needed 2 ground rods. ???

detached garage, by 200'. Ground bar is separate from neutral bar.

The guy helping you is wrong.

All detached structures need grounding electrodes.

This is because the ground wire going to the main panel is not the same as grounding electrodes. theyre 2 different animals. They serve different functions...

refer to comment #3 here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356460

 

[mm08822]

I am liking these answers to my wiring issue. Napa carries red heat shrink so that is the route I will take. I like that better than tape. Just something else to add to the list before the inspector comes out. Hoping to have my panel wired up today.

If the red is slit, you can assume black and white are too.

 

[bubinga]

detached garage, by 200'. Ground bar is separate from neutral bar.