Help, need to install a sump pump I think.. ground water issue

[Sh40674]

Pardon the long post...Brief history on my house. Built in 76. Historically had water in the basement 3 times. Once in 2008 it had a film of water across the whole basement (maybe 1/4 inch), which was during the largest floods in the history of the area. Again in 2010, it was a year like this one, very, very wet and continuous rains. Had a couple inches of water and 2 floor pumps going to keep it out. In 2012 it had a trickle out of a corner, we were on our way to a wedding and I put some towels down and that's all it needed.

After these events I brought 2 dump trucks of dirt in, built the whole outsid above grade. Routed a couple down spots further away, installed gutter guards to keep leaves out, replaced my broken concrete patio and replaced the driveway.

I let it sit 3 years with no water events before I decided to start finishing the basement. My house is small, just under 800 square feet. I have half the basement finished length wise, which would be half the north end, half the south and the whole east wall.

We have been getting record rainfalls for 2 months now in my part of iowa, and luckily until today no water. Finally some relief in sight after tomorrow. The ground is literally an over full sponge right now. I checked today and I had some water along the WEST wall, and through hairline cracks in the floor on the unfinished side.

Obviously this is ground water. I don't know anything about sump pumps. I do know that the proper way would be to tear up along the walls, around the perimeter and put drains in. I don't have the money for that (and wont drop a fortune into a small house I wont be living in for a very long time).

Can I benefit from just cutting a hole somewhere in the floor, guessing on the side or corner I have the most water, and just putting a sump in there? A buddy of mine suggested that. He said "just dig a hole for a sump pit and put a pump in there, that'll take care if your ground water "

So basically, will digging a sump pit without perimeter drains help at all? Basically just something to expel the soaked up ground water?

Pics below are the water in the crack in the floor and against the wall where it meets the floor

 

[75gmck25]

You have two sources of groundwater around your basement. There is water up against the walls and there is groundwater under the cement floor. In many older houses they did not put a water/vapor barrier under the slab, so some water may come directly up through the slab.

If you dig out and install a sump pump well (in a gravel bed) and pump it will pull groundwater from that part of the basement under the floor. It might also pull water that drains down around the walls, but that depends on whether there is a drainage path from the walls to the sump area.

We dug out and installed a sump pump in our 1940 basement, and it works extremely well to pull water out from under the slab and keep the basement dry. We have had a a few leaks in one wall during heavy rains when it went completely over the gutters and dumped water right next to the foundation. However, this has only been about 3 times in the last six years, and it was obvious that the gutters were not handling the heavy rain.

I have two sump pumps in the well (primary and backup), and one of the pumps has a battery backup. I have been surprised how often the pump runs during heavy rains. If I'd known how often it ran I might have been more careful about cementing and testing the PVC pipe connected to it. It really moves a lot of water when there is a heavy rain.

Bruce

 

[Bretny]

Digging a pit in the most wet area will help. With any luck you will have gravel under your basement slab and a moisture barrier...both things i dont have. The sump pump will drain the water below the slab thus not allowing it to get upto the bottom of the slab. Make sure your pit is deep enough for your sump pump to turn on before it reaches the bottom of the slab. You also want a wide pit so the sump pump isnt turning on every 2 min.

I did this in my basement and it helped. I cemented the sides and bottom of the pit. One year i saw water in the pit, took a cement drill bit and drilled a few holes. They were like mini guysers.

But if its record rainfall and thats the only damp areas you get maby a dehumidifier would better suit your needs year round and not just a once every 10yr thing.

 

[finn]

If that’s all the water that infiltrated after a summer of record rains, I would just buy a dehumidifier, and defer tearing up the concrete to install a sump pump.

It’s worked ok for the better part of 42 years, hasn’t it?

 

[Done That]

My house sits on a good bit of shelf rock that slows drainage. All the regrading and downspout extensions helped but heavy heavy rains still brought issues.

I bought a sump basket, drilled a bunch of holes in it, and dropped it into a oversized hole backfilled with plenty of gravel. Definitely helps keep the groundwater level down by pumping it lower. Never been an issue again, 14+ years after fixing. I have a backup battery pump plus a main for peace of mind.

 

[Sh40674]

I have a dehumidifier always running, the water against the walls was actually wet, not just damp and colored like in the hairline crack.

And I dont necessarily want to leave it either as I plan on finishing that half of the basement as well

 

[Bretny]

I have a dehumidifier always running, the water against the walls was actually wet, not just damp and colored like in the hairline crack.

And I dont necessarily want to leave it either as I plan on finishing that half of the basement as well

Then no a sump pump wont help water coming out of your walls. Time to dig it out, clean the walls, seal the walls and mabe even put a layer of foam board on tje outside.

 

[ishiboo]

If you plan on finishing your basement I would do it correctly now. Install a sump pump but also weeping tiles around the perimeter of the basement under the slab, as well as a straight run or two across the middle.

That MAY fix your issue, but then you have the walls to consider. It might be time to dig the walls, install new weeping tile to connect inside to your new sump pump, and then backfill with clear stone and drain fabric.

You can "Waterproof" the walls in many ways, but the clear stone keeping the water moving is the most important. Whether you go the cheap route with 6-mil plastic, 20-mil plastic, sprayed-on membrane, dimple board, etc. is up to you.

 

[kbs2244]

The simple answer to the OP original question is yes.

But like finnn I question the need for once every 42 year occurrence.

 

[Sh40674]

Again, I'm not spending 5-10k to have my house tiled, at that point I just wont finish the basement. It's not coming out of the walls, just from where the wall meets the floor. So I'm guessing it's a pressure issue, not an issue with the walls filling with water.

If I put a sump towards the corner of the basement I want to finish... cant hurt any can it?

My theory is I guess if its happened before itll happen again, and more and more frequently (once water finds a way it finds a way)

 

[2level]

I'm inclined to agree with your theory about the increasing chance of water intrusion. But don't dig deep sump pump pits / invite any more groundwater flow into the basement than necessary.

Speaking from experience, I'd try to keep the pit under 2 feet deep. We've got 8 small pumps working to control water puddling around the perimeter of a 12,000sf floating slab in a basement. If the water flow is small enough, you may even be able to control it without chipping all the way thru the slab. Three of our pumps sit in shallow wells that are chipped into the floor without hitting dirt. (The other 5 pumps are in 12 to 36" deep pits/sumps; float-activated pumps). Check out the Utilitech #0435062 pump. It uses a sensor instead of a float to switch it on/off. Only requires ~1.5" of water to switch it on. Shuts off at ~1/4" of water.

 

[Sh40674]

I ran that concern by a buddy of mine.. if the pump were too quit I'd be in trouble in a hurry. He has a backup, but he also drains his dehumidifier in his pit. His theory is he gets used to about how long it takes to start to pump that out.. and if he doesnt here it kick in he knows it's not working. When it's more dry he said he every so often Dumps water in there to test it

 

[ishiboo]

Again, I'm not spending 5-10k to have my house tiled, at that point I just wont finish the basement. It's not coming out of the walls, just from where the wall meets the floor. So I'm guessing it's a pressure issue, not an issue with the walls filling with water.

If I put a sump towards the corner of the basement I want to finish... cant hurt any can it?

My theory is I guess if its happened before itll happen again, and more and more frequently (once water finds a way it finds a way)

Tiling under the floor is a pretty simple DIY job, you can probably complete it for less than $750 with renting a saw, concrete and tile.

To me having a finishable dry basement is worth a hell of a lot more than that!

 

[Lunker]

It could help relieve ground water pressure but what you have going on is seepage coming where the wall meets the footing. I don’t think just a pit will solve that you need to run drain tile. It’s not that expensive to put in and is a good selling point for the house

 

[Sh40674]

It could help relieve ground water pressure but what you have going on is seepage coming where the wall meets the footing. I don’t think just a pit will solve that you need to run drain tile. It’s not that expensive to put in and is a good selling point for the house

I wouldn't have the time to put it in

 

[Lynden]

If the water flow is small enough, you may even be able to control it without chipping all the way thru the slab. Three of our pumps sit in shallow wells that are chipped into the floor without hitting dirt. Check out the Utilitech #0435062 pump. It uses a sensor instead of a float to switch it on/off. Only requires ~1.5" of water to switch it on. Shuts off at ~1/4" of water.

2level -- Please post a picture of one or two of your shallow wells. I think a shallow well and the pump you recommend may solve the problem I'm having along one side of my garage floor. Thanks.

 

[Bretny]

If your going to half *** this moisture problem then finish the basement your just going to have a humid moldy finished basement. At that point you just wasted thousands so choose wisely.

 

[BD1]

I say put a sump pump in. Cutting the floor ,digging a hole , and dropping in a pit isn't gonna take much work. Making a hole for the discharge line shouldn't be difficult either. You have nothing to lose for a few hundred.
Determine which corner is best for discharge line too. If its not active too much you can make pipe removable by not gluing the outside joint.

 

[Sh40674]

If your going to half *** this moisture problem then finish the basement your just going to have a humid moldy finished basement. At that point you just wasted thousands so choose wisely.

Explain how I'm half assing anything? I've spent, with a new driveway around 12-13k around the outside of my house fixing the flood problem I had years ago. Again, if you can read (judging by your pointless outburst, not well) I'm asking if it would help the issue of hydro pressure in that area. Lots of people have sumps without tile, so I was curious about it. Half my basement is finished. Built away from the wall with an air gap, green 2x4 on bottom and a 2x4 on top of that and the drywall is 2 inches off the ground, water resistant foam flooring. I planned on if it were to get water again to pull the floor and clean it up with no damage to the walls. I haven't had water problems since I did the outside, and if in hadn't done that I would have a flooded basement right now. So I'd say what I've done so far did a pretty good job. I also said I would not finish the 1/4 of the basement I want to finish if it wouldn't help. My apologies I don't have thousands and thousands to shell out to get this work done. And it would only cost me about 4 or 500 to finish what I need to finish so I wouldn't be out "thousands".

If this were a recurring problem I wouldn't have even asked.

It's been 6 years with 0 issues. And after my first post I didn't get any more water, just what I showed in the pics, it didn't get any worse

 

[bwessler]

Do you have a floor drain in the basement floor? If so, drill a one half inch hole in the side, about half way down. The water building up under the floor will drain out the hole and go down the drain. When we had heavy rains, mine would drain for a couple of days and then stop. No more water coming up through cracks or by wall. When it stops flowing, I just put a cork in the hole. Has worked for 25 years. Use a cordless drill.

 

[Showkey]

Sump crock with pump and water proofing paint on every concrete surface.

Plan B is inside perimeter drain system with breaking the floor. Often done by a professional water proofing company. Often a one day and done project.

Plan C is cut concrete inside perimeter floor and drain install tile. Most costly but surprisingly not crazy expensive. Friend did it and solved all his water issues.