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Are all ratchets made with same grade steel? What're the differences?

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Hi,

I am writing an article on what to look for in a brand/manufacturing process to get the highest quality ratchet.

Anyone know what to look for? What're the keywords that really mean anything?

What does made in the USA mean anymore? Is american steel better than taiwanese or chinese steel hands down?

What is the finish property that holds up best?
 
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DGersic

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Good luck.

Nothing is made of just steel, it’s alloyed with other metals for weight, stiffness, and strength.

Made is USA often, not always, means better quality control. China is capable of making anything you’re willing to pay for, but is currently mostly making cheap, because that’s what sells.

The finish that holds up best is rust, but most of us don’t want that. Chrome is popular and reasonably durable.


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American Locomotive

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The steel the ratchet body is made out of is really irrelevant, and almost any modern ratchet body except the absolute cheapest, nastiest ones will be far stronger than the ratcheting mechanism.

The ratcheting mechanisms on most modern mid-range to high end ratchets are stronger than the anvil that plugs into the socket. By that, I mean usually you will shear the 3/8" drive end right off the ratchet before the mechanism inside breaks.
 

Skin

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If you're really writing a book (unless that's code for "blog") then buy some samples and send them in for testing... Just asking is going to get you the marketing rhetoric.
 

Zewnten

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Hack-a-day has a good article explaining how a companies description can give the consumer a lot of in-site into the quality they can expect from a tool. Here is the link https://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/ I have found it is a good base line for filtering out tools based solely on price vs quality.

In my experience a customer has two options for strength a couple big teeth (3/4 Snap On has 2 pawls that engage at 90 degrees, I believe Proto pear heads also used something similar) or lots of little, almost every "truck" or other high quality ratchet uses this now. But if the little teeth are not made correctly due to poor machining or heat treatment then it doen't do much good (in the case of my Apex made anvil that kept shearing teeth)
 
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WWheeler

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Harbor Freight / Craftsman / GearWrench / Tekton / et al ratchets are made from grade B, C, or D Chinesium or Taiwantanium pot metal.

Snap on ratchets are made from Thor's hammer melted down by Captain America in the same reactor that fuels USA's Trident missile program and hardened by a motorboating from Pamela Anderson.

 
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Ole Slewfoot

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Hi,

I am writing an article on what to look for in a brand/manufacturing process to get the highest quality ratchet.

Anyone know what to look for? What're the keywords that really mean anything?

What does made in the USA mean anymore? Is american steel better than taiwanese or chinese steel hands down?

What is the finish property that holds up best?

You mean you are looking to us for free content with which to generate clickbait for personal profit? I cant participate in that, and suggest anyone have a look at the website before they do. Its not straight spam, but judge for yourself.

Disclosure upfront would help.

Oh, and Howdy Neighbor:beer:

Oh, and sometimes the best ratchet doesn't even have steel
https://www.zoro.com/ampco-hand-ratchet-yes-14-dr-flexible-5-l-w-143r/i/G6127110/
 
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nmantas

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...have a look at the website before they do. Its not straight spam, but judge for yourself.
I personally found the advice on his site to go to a junk yard and over tighten every bolt you can find till they snap/strip to get the "feel for torque" a bit troubling. Not only because I think torque by feel is a joke but also because what if I was the next guy trying to take a part and finding out that it has been damaged for some jackassary.
 

2oolhound

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I personally found the advice on his site to go to a junk yard and over tighten every bolt you can find till they snap/strip to get the "feel for torque" a bit troubling. Not only because I think torque by feel is a joke but also because what if I was the next guy trying to take a part and finding out that it has been damaged for some jackassary.

I haven't read that part but I feel the exasperation in trying to get parts at a junkyard only to find someone has been there breaking off all the bolts. That said torquing by feel is no joke as a lot of machinery is built where there is no way to get a torque wrench on all the fasteners. I've been doing my own motorcycle cranks by feel for this reason for decades as do many race bike mechanics. Would I want a greenhorn doing my crank this way? NO.

Unfortunately more and more greenhorns or self proclaimed experts are doing more and more skilled crafts these days. At one time you had to be a bona fide expert, a mechanical engineer or similar to find a publisher to publish such an article as outlined above but today anyone can source data online, post it on line and put their name on it. For generations we have had quality television with consistent color, audio levels and stories that flowed smoothly and told the whole story. Today youtube has had to build in edit controls where we can speed up or slow down content because the publisher hasn't properly edited their post. Now we the viewer are expected to edit as we watch. We live in an age where everybody wants to be the publisher and try to do the job a crew of 50 experts used to do. Our standards have slipped as we watch content that was not produced by the people with the expertise to tell the story.
 

JiminAZ

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I run into this on the gun forums too. Someone wants the "magic word" answer. Just make it out of "X" material and it'll be awesome. Sorry it's just not that simple. A great tool happens at the intersection of metallurgy, manufacturing process specification and control, mechanical design, industrial design, cost/price control, and a healthy dose of marketing and sales.

Drop one or more of those balls and its a fail. Simpletons tend to think it's easy but every one of those factors is a career unto itself.
 

SJK2

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It means they're made in Elizabethton Tennessee by hardworking Americans with the best steel available known to man.

2195 State Line Rd, Elizabethton, TN 37643
(423) 543-5771


cool vid, Thanks for posting...........
 

winlinmac

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The metallurgist knows his stuff :bounce:

Harbor Freight / Craftsman / GearWrench / Tekton / et al ratchets are made from grade B, C, or D Chinesium or Taiwantanium pot metal.

Snap on ratchets are made from Thor's hammer melted down by Captain America in the same reactor that fuels USA's Trident missile program and hardened by a motorboating from Pamela Anderson.
 

PFSard

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I think to answer the question in the thread title, you'd have to contact each manufacturer about each model that they've ever made. I'm interested in your results.
 
OP
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I haven't read that part but I feel the exasperation in trying to get parts at a junkyard only to find someone has been there breaking off all the bolts. That said torquing by feel is no joke as a lot of machinery is built where there is no way to get a torque wrench on all the fasteners. I've been doing my own motorcycle cranks by feel for this reason for decades as do many race bike mechanics. Would I want a greenhorn doing my crank this way? NO.

Unfortunately more and more greenhorns or self proclaimed experts are doing more and more skilled crafts these days. At one time you had to be a bona fide expert, a mechanical engineer or similar to find a publisher to publish such an article as outlined above but today anyone can source data online, post it on line and put their name on it. For generations we have had quality television with consistent color, audio levels and stories that flowed smoothly and told the whole story. Today youtube has had to build in edit controls where we can speed up or slow down content because the publisher hasn't properly edited their post. Now we the viewer are expected to edit as we watch. We live in an age where everybody wants to be the publisher and try to do the job a crew of 50 experts used to do. Our standards have slipped as we watch content that was not produced by the people with the expertise to tell the story.

Yo, its meant to keep people from hurting themselves when they work on their own cars. :beer:

My advice is quite literally find the shittiest crappiest car that no one will want parts from and get a feel for breaking bolts. If you don't think that is good advice, then I don't know what to tell you?

They should break bolts on their car first? Round off their oil plug pan bolt? Not understand the power of the tools first?

If you think someone doesn't develop a feel for torque after they break some bolts, and that you can speed that process up by associating a hand feel/noise/size of bolt with a breaking point of torque then you haven't wrenched long enough.

Otherwise I suggest you posting a video of letting someone with zero car experience use your air tools and tell them to just tighten the bolts.

My website is about giving people real world advice they can use. I gaurentee if you invited me into your shop you'd see I know my way around any tool box, car, and car repair in general.

Take it as you like, it isn't spam, and you're happy to not read any of it.
 
OP
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I personally found the advice on his site to go to a junk yard and over tighten every bolt you can find till they snap/strip to get the "feel for torque" a bit troubling. Not only because I think torque by feel is a joke but also because what if I was the next guy trying to take a part and finding out that it has been damaged for some jackassary.

:bowdown:
 
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Negen

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I see replies about steel grade and what not. Any time you have any steel that is certified by a grade then it should meet that grades specifications. Only the cheapest tool brands lie or mislead about grades of steal. Tooling steel is probably far from the highest quality steel the world has ever seen or what ever some previous post was trying to say. Japanese steel was so good that American steel manufactures partnered with Japanese companies to provide that steel to American manufacturers.

Researching where steel comes from and how it is made is probably a first step to understand that some countries just cannot produce steel of any usable quality.

I suspect that American tool manufacturers order steel made to their required specifications. And then stamp and forge it into a usable tool. This may or may not mean American steel.

One quick example is I have replacement bits from a company called best way label said made in USA and listed new York as the location of where it was made. this was labeled as s2 steel. Any s2 steel bits I have owned have always been magnetic or able to hold a magnetic charge. This best way tool can not. I am no steel expert by any means. But I found this odd.

America has a few good tool manufacturers and a few others not so good. A few American tool manufacturers are not American companies any longer and part of international consolidation groups. Some people will buy a lower quality higher priced tool just for the USA stamped on the tool. Most tools from Wright or snap on are probably worth having. Other tool manufacturers one would have to compare and decide which is a better value.

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d.mcfarland

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Honestly, when's the last time a modern ratchet worth more than 10 cents was ever a problem?

For a long time the awful, cheap, and weak ratchets broke after just a few uses. Nowadays, even the bottom of the barrel ratchets companies sell hold up to plenty of years of abuse. Take a HF for example. I'm sure someone here has more experience than me, but that ratchet still works fine I'd bet.

Seems like you're writing an article on a bunch of hypothesis or guesses, rather than facts. And that doesn't help anyone.
 

Negen

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Honestly, when's the last time a modern ratchet worth more than 10 cents was ever a problem?

For a long time the awful, cheap, and weak ratchets broke after just a few uses. Nowadays, even the bottom of the barrel ratchets companies sell hold up to plenty of years of abuse. Take a HF for example. I'm sure someone here has more experience than me, but that ratchet still works fine I'd bet.

Seems like you're writing an article on a bunch of hypothesis or guesses, rather than facts. And that doesn't help anyone.
You should try a GM good wrench pass through. I think the ball bearings fall out at 5-25 Ft lbs. Depending on direction.

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J.A.F.E.

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If you don't have first hand experience you should not be giving advice. But anyone with a keyboard can pound those keys just too bad others are duped into thinking the random letters on the screen have meaning.

There are so many factors besides the steel (or composite) in a ratchet as to make the very question almost meaningless. I'd list some of them and do your work for you but I have to go check my thread on the NASA site about the best materials to build a rocket to Mars.
 

Negen

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If you don't have first hand experience you should not be giving advice. But anyone with a keyboard can pound those keys just too bad others are duped into thinking the random letters on the screen have meaning.

There are so many factors besides the steel (or composite) in a ratchet as to make the very question almost meaningless. I'd list some of them and do your work for you but I have to go check my thread on the NASA site about the best materials to build a rocket to Mars.
Well if she can't find you handsome at least she will find you handy.

(You can sub she with he him or anything else that might fit I don't want to assume.)

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jdlong

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If you are going to write an article, buy every ratchet made and do some destructive testing. Otherwise you're just throwing sand at the waves.
 

seber

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Honestly, when's the last time a modern ratchet worth more than 10 cents was ever a problem?

For a long time the awful, cheap, and weak ratchets broke after just a few uses. Nowadays, even the bottom of the barrel ratchets companies sell hold up to plenty of years of abuse. Take a HF for example. I'm sure someone here has more experience than me, but that ratchet still works fine I'd bet.

Seems like you're writing an article on a bunch of hypothesis or guesses, rather than facts. And that doesn't help anyone.

I recently bought a HF short handled 3/8 ratchet. Oversized head but it broke on its' first use. Luckily I bought it for the handle but now I'm hoping that will hold up.
Almost any tool steel should be good enough. The trick is getting the heat treat right. Even the most expensive steel will fail if the tempering is not correct. There is plenty of literature on the subject, but only experimentation with each supplier and sometimes each run will give the best results.
 

theoldwizard1

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Almost any tool steel should be good enough. The trick is getting the heat treat right. Even the most expensive steel will fail if the tempering is not correct.
Those are pretty broad statements ! First define "tool steel" !!

Steel is an alloy of iron and many other elements. What saved many steel mills from closing completely was being able to manufacture "exotic" steels with different formulations and hold that through out their processes. Too much of "this", not enough of "that" and you have a molten lump of something useless.

I am not says heat treating is not important (it is), but it can not make up for poor chemistry.

Ever notice that any decent tool, early on in the manufacturing process, goes through a forging process ? Forging is critical to a tools strength as it aligns the steel grain structure into the basic shape of the steel. While probably not important to a tools performance, nicely finished (polished) forging dies make a difference to the end user.
 

neophyte

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Unfortunately more and more greenhorns or self proclaimed experts are doing more and more skilled crafts these days. At one time you had to be a bona fide expert, a mechanical engineer or similar to find a publisher to publish such an article as outlined above but today anyone can source data online, post it on line and put their name on it. For generations we have had quality television with consistent color, audio levels and stories that flowed smoothly and told the whole story. Today youtube has had to build in edit controls where we can speed up or slow down content because the publisher hasn't properly edited their post. Now we the viewer are expected to edit as we watch. We live in an age where everybody wants to be the publisher and try to do the job a crew of 50 experts used to do. Our standards have slipped as we watch content that was not produced by the people with the expertise to tell the story.

The fact that research comes out of a publisher with 50 “experts” on staff doesn’t make the research correct, or even necessarily good, and there are plenty of examples of very poorly produced and/or presented research that was completely or mostly wrong.
Likewise, some random guy on Youtube, who films, edits, and presents his own content, is not necessarily wrong or ignorant on the subjects he is presenting.

Much in depth research, is actually done by individuals, or very small groups of people, and winds up as the authoritative research or reference material on a subject. And while the research may prove to be flawed, in many cases it is majorly correct, and is the foundation on which other research builds.

Previously, lots of specialist research was done by individuals and then published in books, or presented at traveling lectures, to others interested or involved in the same field. Now, the same type of individual, may present the research as a video on Youtube or as a blg, or a forum post.

The fact that PBS aired a documentary claiming the discovery of Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat, which was later debunked as a con job is proof that professionally produced documentaries can be completely full of **** information.
‘60 Minutes’ produced an entire segment on safety problems associated with the Remmington 700 rifle, and there’s a separately produced video, showing all the issues with the ‘60 Minutes’ produced video piece.

As far as the actual topic of this thread goes.
Different manufacturers use different steel to produce their ratchets, and more importantly, the manufacturers use different techniques to forge, shape, machine, heat treat, finish, and otherwise check their ratchets. So you can’t make a decision just based on something like the steel that was used.

‘How It’s Made’, the educational TV show, had an episode on ratchets, were the production of Snap-On ratchets was shown.
Matco has a video showing the production of their current ratchets, and the technique is slightly different.
Some German manufacturers likely also have films showing production.
 

PartsGuy

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"My website is about giving people real world advice they can use. I gaurentee if you invited me into your shop you'd see I know my way around any tool box, car, and car repair in general."

Sorry, but watching this kid's videos and reading his blog have pretty well ensured that he wouldn't be allowed within 100 yards of my shop, box, or vehicle. As a tech, parts specialist, and automotive writer, let me say that I am more than a bit disappointed with this content.
 
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