Running CAT5 cable underground to detached garage.

[seedtime]

I’m in the process of running electrical service from my house to my detached garage. I completed the excavation yesterday, and the electrician is set to install the conduit next week.

I want to run a CAT5 cable for an eventual WiFi router in my new garage.

Will the signal be distorted/diminished by the 60A service if run in the same conduit? The distance between the house and garage is 16’.


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[wyliesdiesels]

you could get interference. you should run the CAT5e in separate conduit.

make sure to get underground rated cat5e

 

[Jazzman442]

That is not good Idea. Running Cable from one to another . There is lightning and surges to deal with. You would be better off with Fiber. It is not expensive and will not have any issues Like interference and surges. If it is really short just use a mesh network or antennas on the windows.

Do you work for Cummins? I use to use alot of their ONAN boxes.

 

[MrSurly]

Definitely take this opportunity to drop in a 3/4 (or larger) conduit just for future-proofing. You may later want to pull in alarm wire, TV coax, or whatever new-fangled conductor type becomes needed later. Even if the conduit is capped, it's there waiting if needed.

 

[dogdog]

that run is short enough another 1" conduit with 90deg sweeps would have been way too cheap and better option for future expansion of your man cave to something better in the future....

 

[Norcal]

You cannot share data & power cables in the same conduit, run another conduit & use gel filled "icky pick" CAT 5 cable.

 

[b-boy]

I'm going through this now.

I had 1" conduit run alongside my 2" for electrical. I opted to go with fiber. I got 300ft of waterproof fiber, rated for outdoor use for ~$130. I picked up 2 media converters for ~40 each. It was a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.

My main reason was to avoid having 2 conductive paths between buildings. It can cause interference in some cases between your network and your electrical system in the outbuilding.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That is not good Idea. Running Cable from one to another . There is lightning and surges to deal with. You would be better off with Fiber. It is not expensive and will not have any issues Like interference and surges. If it is really short just use a mesh network or antennas on the windows.

There are copper surge arresters and isolators available for this type of situation

 

[Jazzman442]

I live in Florida. I also am a Electrical Engineer for a large electronics company. Nothing stops Lighting. It is really cheap for Fiber and as long as no one cuts it fiber will last forever.I like doing things once the right way. You can run a ton of data that way. Good Luck

 

[Negen]

I live in Washington state and around here for less than 100' runs we use direct burial cable about 12-16" deep. Longer runs we use PVC pipes or plastic/PVC flex conduit. We always use outdoor rated cables. And the plastic shark bite type connectors for the conduit. We normally only use the flex stuff if repeaters are to be use.

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[rjn2649]

You cannot share data & power cables in the same conduit, run another conduit & use gel filled "icky pick" CAT 5 cable.

I would run a second conduit, and another vote for fiber.

 

[Jim greengo]

If they're going to be in same trench I'd at least try and keep pipes as far away from each other as possible.
Or see if you can find some sort of shielded cable for the cat5.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If they're going to be in same trench I'd at least try and keep pipes as far away from each other as possible.
Or see if you can find some sort of shielded cable for the cat5.

there are many brands of shielded CAT cable but it is pricey

 

[ddawg16]

Fiber would future proof it....i.e., you will never outgrow it.

If it was me....separate 1" conduit with both fiber and Cat6 (or 5E) rated for wet. Maybe even an RG6 coax. Just in case you want TV OTA.

 

[tarmy]

The trench is open...throw a couple extra 1” conduit in there for coms and maybe even remote exterior light control from the house...

 

[theoldwizard1]

you could get interference. you should run the CAT5e in separate conduit.

make sure to get underground rated cat5e

If it is in a conduit and it can be replaced (if necessary) the additional cost of underground cable is probably not worth it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If it is in a conduit and it can be replaced (if necessary) the additional cost of underground cable is probably not worth it.

Ive seen the effects of indoor rated wire ran underground even in conduit. Blown ethernet ports on switches and equipment.

 

[b-boy]

If I was going to use Cat6, I'd definitely get waterproof cable. I wouldn't take a chance on regular stuff. I saw the amount of moisture in my conduit when I ran my THHN/THWN. I think that would destroy regular cable.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Low voltage must be in its own conduit. I would also put lightning protection on both ends, something like these: https://www.itwlinx.com/products/surgegate-modular-communications-surge-protectors/cat6-75

 

[Jim greengo]

there are many brands of shielded CAT cable but it is pricey

Maybe make buddies with a cable TV guy with some stuff laying around.

 

[Bad Habit]

It can't be run in the same conduit as the power, either separate conduit or direct bury. Of course if direct buried it still needs to be protected as it enters the buildings. As to the protection, yeah, its a good idea, although with that short of a distance and so close to the buildings its unlikely to take a hit. It would hit the power too so you'd have other problems than a couple of fried network devices. It needs to be outdoor rated, water will get into any conduit and the cable will be degraded. Getting a pre-made fiber patch cord solves the lightning issues if you're concerned. Just make sure the conduit/building entrances are large enough for the terminated ends.

 

[garage guy1of38]

There are copper surge arresters and isolators available for this type of situation

We use Ditek arresters for building to building copper runs

You've got the opportunity to run what you want.

Figure out what you think you need for wiring between and then double it.

Between my house and shop is single mode fibre, multi mode fibre, 6 direct bury shielded cat 6e cables and two runs of RG11...but I'm in the industry and run quite a lot of electronic gear in the shop, fed from the house

 

[ddawg16]

We use Ditek arresters for building to building copper runs

You've got the opportunity to run what you want.

Figure out what you think you need for wiring between and then double it.

Between my house and shop is single mode fibre, multi mode fibre, 6 direct bury shielded cat 6e cables and two runs of RG11...but I'm in the industry and run quite a lot of electronic gear in the shop, fed from the house

There is probably no greater feeling than 10-15 years from now working on a ckt with issues and finding out you have 'spares'...........

 

[Specracer]

As other have said, you can NOT combine LV and high voltage cables in one conduit. Your picture indicates its a very short run, put in 2 1" one for your CAT cables (yes 2, why not), and RG-6. the second 1" is for future. Fiber is great from surge perspective, but the associated hardware can be expensive.

 

[Showkey]

I have CAT5 run to outbuildings and don’t use it.......mesh router covers the home, shop and huge area outside.

 

[Norcal]

As other have said, you can NOT combine LV and high voltage cables in one conduit. Your picture indicates its a very short run, put in 2 1" one for your CAT cables (yes 2, why not), and RG-6. the second 1" is for future. Fiber is great from surge perspective, but the associated hardware can be expensive.

240 volts is NOT " high voltage".

 

[Negen]

240 volts is NOT " high voltage".

This makes little to no sense. It is rare that buildings have higher than 120/240 volts. Code where I am calls network cables low voltage and are allowed to use the orange brackets. Like these. Most electricians will allow home owners/buildings owners to run low voltage which is generally 5-24 volts (audio , video network) them selves to save money. Low voltage around me should be inspected but most the time it is not. If one were to use the orange low voltage brackets on 240v not only is that illegal (code violation) it is dangerous. 480v is the highest I see in residential ( think network servers or wood shops). Out side of industry use I cannot think of anything that 240v would be the low voltage.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have CAT5 run to outbuildings and don’t use it.......mesh router covers the home, shop and huge area outside.

Thats great that wireless works for you but it doesnt work for everyone due to construction and outside interference. and a hardwired connection is far better and far more reliable than a wireless one. Latency and speed will be far better on a wired connection.

Plus, you dont have to worry about someone hacking into your network as the wireless password is transmitted with each transmission, albeit encoded. Can sniff and decode a wireless password in mere hours.

240 volts is NOT " high voltage".

As other have said, you can NOT combine LV and high voltage cables in one conduit. Your picture indicates its a very short run, put in 2 1" one for your CAT cables (yes 2, why not), and RG-6. the second 1" is for future. Fiber is great from surge perspective, but the associated hardware can be expensive.

This makes little to no sense. It is rare that buildings have higher than 120/240 volts. Code where I am calls network cables low voltage and are allowed to use the orange brackets. Like these. Most electricians will allow home owners/building owners to run low voltage, which is generally 5-24 volts (audio , video, network), themselves, to save money. Low voltage around me should be inspected, but most the time it is not. If one were to use the orange low voltage brackets on 240v not only is that illegal (code violation) it is dangerous. 480v is the highest I see in residential ( think network servers or wood shops). Out side of industry use I cannot think of anything that 240v would be the low voltage.

Low voltage systems are those that are energy limited and operate @ 91v and lower.

But when you look @ ANSI C84.1-1989, low voltage is defined as 600v and below so Norcal is correct.

http://static.schneider-electric.us/assets/consultingengineer/appguidedocs/section4_0307.pdf

https://electrical-engineering-port...stem-voltage-according-to-ansi-standard-c84-1

 

[Negen]

Yeah I figured there would be some standard definition on high vs low voltage. Thanks for the input.

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[ttpete]

Thats great that wireless works for you but it doesn't work for everyone due to construction and outside interference. and a hardwired connection is far better and far more reliable than a wireless one. Latency and speed will be far better on a wired connection.

Plus, you don't have to worry about someone hacking into your network as the wireless password is transmitted with each transmission, albeit encoded. Can sniff and decode a wireless password in mere hours.

So you don't use wireless at all?

 

[Norcal]

I prefer to refer it as low voltage and line voltage.

 

[Showkey]

So you don't use wireless at all?

I assume your questioning why a garage or shop internet is any different than the wireless in just about every modern home.
Those wireless comments mentioned are just nonsense..........my mesh has 100 Mbps with no safety or hacking concerns. I can stream video, music, shop manual, email and do anything in the shop that I do in the home. It’s all the same system that I do my banking etc
Reliability.........not a concern so far.

I have cat5 and don’t use it because to be functional ( news flash iPad does not have a wired connection) I would need another wireless point......which would be pointless

 

[ttpete]

I assume your questioning why a garage or shop internet is any different than the wireless in just about every modern home.
Those wireless comments mentioned are just nonsense..........my mesh has 100 Mbps with no safety or hacking concerns. I can stream video, music, shop manual, email and do anything in the shop that I do in the home. It’s all the same system that I do my banking etc
Reliability.........not a concern so far.

I have cat5 and don’t use it because to be functional ( news flash iPad does not have a wired connection) I would need another wireless point......which would be pointless

It had to do with the comments on wireless security. I wondered if it meant that you used wired connections because of not trusting wireless. I have an Orbi router setup with master and slave units and it provides good coverage for the house and garage.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So you don't use wireless at all?

I do use wireless.

But for building inter-connectivity, hard wired is way better than relying on a uni-directional wifi signal. which is what my point is.

I have many clients whom have stucco and the chicken wire in the stucco degrades the signal to the point its not usable.

If hardwired is not an option, then wireless point to point would be my next choice. And using wireless directional point to point radios with proprietary signal propagation, such as ubiquiti equipment, solves the susceptibility to hackers issues.

BTW one of my neighbors recently tried hacking my wireless. How do i know? Because their device tried passwords over and over again on a set time interval before it overloaded my router and i noticed. And i also have wireless hacking tools and know how they work and how it looks on the router end of things.

I switched to hidden SSID which stopped them but totally not hack proof.

 

[jeepxj]

why on earth would you go wireless when you could have a hard wired solution that easily.

 

[Showkey]

why on earth would you go wireless when you could have a hard wired solution that easily.

Because devices like iPad or phones don’t work hard wired !!!! Making wired connections almost obsolete !!!!
One mesh system covers all the building all the outside area all the devices with 100mbps.
I have one lap top with wired connection but it too is wireless and has NOT been wired in years.

So if you read all the posts .......Cat 5 to the shop still needs to connected to another wireless point to work with modern devices.

 

[b-boy]

Mesh systems can be pretty touchy. I live in an old house, and getting a decent signal through my walls is difficult. Forget about outside. I've tried signal boosters, repeaters, high-end WIFI antennas, WAPs, and a mesh system. None of them were very reliable. A hard wired solution between buildings with wireless points inside the buildings is the best option IMHO.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Note that strictly speaking you should use Cat 5 cable that's rated for underground use.

That is not good Idea. Running Cable from one to another . There is lightning and surges to deal with. You would be better off with Fiber. It is not expensive and will not have any issues Like interference and surges.

I suspect lightning is not as much of a problem in Michigan as it is in Florida. The two buildings are just a few feet apart, I'd just go with the Cat 5 and be done with it. Fiber may be reasonably priced, but then you also need fiber converters at each end and they don't give those away for free.

 

[dogdog]

As stated, building inter-connectivity is always best wired. .... for home owner it might be a fudge ... but if I am digging up a trench... dam sure I'll be putting an extra tubing and an extra for what nots... PVC is cheap... it's not like you are in my area that requires GRC.... even with that the OP have what 2 10' and maybe 4 90s ? and 2LB? that is not that costly....

As far as the extra wireless point is pointless.... have a mesh is a lot more "wireless' points.... it's about the same... But I think fiber is over kill... cause the equipment is specialized, the fiber is specialized, and extra expense UN-necessary at the moment for the bleeding edge stuff.... but hey once you have the conduits put in... ... do it at your hearts content... me, Cat6 or cat5E and 2 coax or 3 just in case I put up some cameras.

If your area allows PVC, dam you can do it for under $50... no reason not to.

 

[Evan(CA)]

I know it's not what you "should do" but here is my real world experience. I have regular indoor cat5e run from my router, 50' through the attic, 8' up and down on both ends, then 20' feet underground in regular electrical pvc and it's worked fine for a decade now.