12" stud spacing for 2x6 walls over 10' high...

[Innovate1]

Planning a 30 x 40 shop building and want to put in a tall door so that means tall walls. I want it to be strong but what I am being told is required for 2015 building code (what I think is in effect here) is 2 x 6 walls can be 16" on center up to 10' but 12' or 14' have to be 12" on center. Also being told I need brace panels and in the 30' gable end I have a 12' wide and 9' wide door. so I need double 2x12 above each door opening to lap onto brace panels. Apparently that is because standard brace panels are 4' wide every 25 feet. I can't get 3 full width ones in the wall with the doors so some have to be narrower so require the 2x12s that lap onto the brace panels to add strength. Tried to look up general building code on line but haven't found details for over 10 foot walls.

Plans person has already suggested 2' high concrete stub walls to limit height of studs but that doesn't keep the studs to 10'.

I think walls over 10' may normally need to be engineered but if done in certain standard ways (like 12" spacing of studs) they will accept without detailed engineering. Just a guess.

Think it might be possible to do a post frame (pole barn) type construction in this area but need to find some local suppliers and look at costs.

This is in St. Louis County, Missouri. It will be heated so I want good air sealing and insulation...

 

[Voi]

I was required to use LSL studs at 16" OC for the 13' wall of my cabin and part of the sidewalls that were still at 12' or higher. In my case there were a lot of windows and sliding doors on that front wall and that played into that to some degree.

I doubt LSL's on 16" centers will be any cheaper than lumber on 12" centers but you might get an insulation plan together to see if there is some sort of price increase, if any, on the less typical 12" centers.

 

[GMCGarage]

What is the roof span so I can check the loads on the stud? unless you have a huge span, I would 100% say a #1 or select grade 2x6 would be good for 12 feet at 16" o.c.

Whats your roof span and we can check them out.

 

[GMCGarage]

What is the roof span so I can check the loads on the stud? unless you have a huge span, I would 100% say a #1 or select grade 2x6 would be good for 12 feet at 16" o.c.

Whats your roof span and we can check them out.

Never mind, I see your dimensions in the post. no problem with 2x6 @ 16" o.c.

 

[bad_idea]

Go to your planning office. Talk to one of the inspectors. Do not ask him what the requirements for wall heights are, that will make him mad. Ask him to point you to the applicable code. My inspector actually showed me on the internet where the applicable code could be accessed.

Next option - contact a local engineer and discuss with them.

In my area I am allowed 2x6 studs up to 18' tall on gable walls (non load bearing) on 16" centers. My walls are 10' 2x6s on 16" centers. The gable walls are balloon framed because I wanted a cathedral ceiling. Tallest gable wall stud is 17' 6" tall.

 

[tthornto]

Based on your description I would see if a staggered 2x4 stud wall with 2x6 or 2x8 baseplates would work. This design gives you 12" spaced studs and provides a thermal break to allow better insulation and sound isolation.

According to St. Lois County Mo. The code you need to meet is IBC2009 https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXIPUWOBURE_CH1115BUCO_1115.030GEADDE

 

[Samh]

I thought the requirement for 2x6 walls was max height laterally unsupported was 10ft, otherwise you need blocking. And for 12' height would require blocking 4ft O.C.

 

[69gp]

I have 13'-6" walls. 2x6 on 16" centers. i do have 2x6 blocking laid on the flat side every 4' on the seems for the full length of the wall. this is in the northeast

 

[kbs2244]

Increase the height of your stub walls.
The cost of a poured wall is in the set up and 4 foot forms are common.
4 feet would not be much more than 2 feet.

The same holds true for a block wall.
4 foot is still ground level work so no scaffolding costs.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Have 2x6-16s on 16", eave side.
4' of blocking every 20'.
With the block wall, sill plate, top plate it gives me just about 17' 6" to bottom of trusses.

 

[bowhuntr311]

"Planning a 30 x 40 shop building and want to put in a tall door so that means tall walls"

So...the replys are headed down the building code direction...my mind went door=wall height-few inches. Have you looked into coffer truss or vault truss and shorter walls? I did a 40x40 with 10foot walls and a 10x10 door, I did vault truss for the first 12 feet and then did bonus room truss for storage for the rest. Wish I'd would of known about coffer truss design when I did the planning. It would made it alot easier for insulation and attic storage.

Good luck.

 

[matt_i]

Im not sure what "brace panels" are.

I have heard of the center-blocking requirement once you hit 12' of stud so the long length doesn't buckle in compression. I have also seen the studs kerfed and a metal "T" shaped bar placed in the kerf and nailed to every stud for same reasons.

In a general statement, the way to make a building "strong" is with lateral shear/racking resistance. The plywood/osb panels do that if they are nailed properly, which is typically #10d (nails) every 6" on panel edges and every 12" across the panel center. If you want (or need) more you can always go with metal "X" or "V" bracing, Simpson makes 16 ga flat strapping, its around 1-1/4" wide and is prepunched with nail holes.

Its just me but I'd use an LVL for any garage door header over a 2x SPF timber. It will be straighter, far stronger. Its slightly more expensive but ya get what ya pay for, eh?

 

[Firebrick43]

Icf are a 15 percent premium over standard 2x6 walls. The more non standard you get(and therefore more expensive) the more icf is equal in construction cost and its unlikely you will beat it in insulation or strength

 

[theoldwizard1]

Icf are a 15 percent premium over standard 2x6 walls. The more non standard you get(and therefore more expensive) the more icf is equal in construction cost and its unlikely you will beat it in insulation or strength

I AM a fan of ICFs ! Tall ICF walls require more bracing during the pour. You certainly want to have and EXPERIENCED crew building, reinforcing an pouring (pumping) your ICF walls.

 

[ddawg16]

Based on your description I would see if a staggered 2x4 stud wall with 2x6 or 2x8 baseplates would work. This design gives you 12" spaced studs and provides a thermal break to allow better insulation and sound isolation.

According to St. Lois County Mo. The code you need to meet is IBC2009 https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXIPUWOBURE_CH1115BUCO_1115.030GEADDE

I think that is a bad idea. Getting a 2x4 to stay straight more than 8' is a challenge. One wall of my house is 9' high....I used 2x6's so I wouldn't have to worry about bowing. I should have done that upstairs when I did the vaulted ceiling. I had to replace a 4x4 because it started to bow in.

 

[Innovate1]

Here is info on the brace wall requirement:

https://www.stlouisco.com/Portals/8/docs/Document%20Library/Public%20Works/code%20enforcement/guides/residential/Simplified-Bracing.pdf

This limits wall height to 12' without custom calculations from an engineer. 12 feet would be fine but apparently there are other places that limit things...

I did find a modification to wind speed as noted in 1116.300 here:
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXIPUWOBURE_CH1116RECO_1116.300AMINRECOOMIDW2009EDHA3BUPL
It doesn't give the wind speed to be used but as I recall they require 120 MPH wind load rather than 90 MPH in the 2009 IRC

The 2009 IRC shows tables for taller walls but doesn't show wind speed that high in many of the tables for walls above 10 ft. So it appears that for anything above 10 ft they specifiy 12" stud spacing - I have asked for where that is spelled out in the local code.

Apparently what is allowed here is to make the concrete foundation higher, up to 4 feet or maybe even higher above ground level, and keep the framed wall shorter to meet the code tables.

 

[Smokeem]

Here is info on the brace wall requirement:

https://www.stlouisco.com/Portals/8/docs/Document%20Library/Public%20Works/code%20enforcement/guides/residential/Simplified-Bracing.pdf

This limits wall height to 12' without custom calculations from an engineer. 12 feet would be fine but apparently there are other places that limit things...

I did find a modification to wind speed as noted in 1116.300 here:
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXIPUWOBURE_CH1116RECO_1116.300AMINRECOOMIDW2009EDHA3BUPL
It doesn't give the wind speed to be used but as I recall they require 120 MPH wind load rather than 90 MPH in the 2009 IRC

The 2009 IRC shows tables for taller walls but doesn't show wind speed that high in many of the tables for walls above 10 ft. So it appears that for anything above 10 ft they specifiy 12" stud spacing - I have asked for where that is spelled out in the local code.

Apparently what is allowed here is to make the concrete foundation higher, up to 4 feet or maybe even higher above ground level, and keep the framed wall shorter to meet the code tables.

This is for a portal frame wall panel and not a continuously sheathed wall panel. I would think that you should be able to go to at least a 16' wall framed 2X6 16" OC. We see that quite often in our area without engineered plans going prescriptive from the 2012 IRC.

Do you know what the wind speed for your area is?

Rick

 

[Innovate1]

I was told there are numerous items that are not in the code but the reviewers require it and it is difficult to fight so apparently they are able to force people to do it. Gives the reviewers justification for their jobs I guess when they find lots of issues (although they are non-issues).

 

[Innovate1]

Smokeem, If you are basing your statement that it is for portal frame on the URL, the "Portals" in the link doesn't refer to framing method. I think it is a computer term for the access to the files... The requirements are being applied to all walls and that is clear from the details in the document.

 

[Smokeem]

Smokeem, If you are basing your statement that it is for portal frame on the URL, the "Portals" in the link doesn't refer to framing method. I think it is a computer term for the access to the files... The requirements are being applied to all walls and that is clear from the details in the document.

Portal frame was referred to in the code book are referencing sections of walls where it is impossible to get the 4’ braced panels. They are just another way to get the required bracing on a smaller panel. Usually they are built differently and that is why they are referenced as “portal framing”. Around here we see them on almost every house on the garage front walls due to everybody wanting to squeeze the largest door they can and they almost never leave 4’ on the walls next to the opening.

I was looking in our 2012 IRC and going prescriptive we could approve up to 18’ walls with 2x6 16” OC as long at wind values are less than 100 mph. We are in a pretty open valley and are rated at 90 mph wind load for residential and 115 mph for commercial.

It also should be pretty hard for them to enforce or require anything that is not in the code book unless they have adopted it either on the state or local jurisdiction. If something has been changed or adopted they should have record of it and should be able to provide you with the documentation of it.

 

[kbs2244]

Do not get into a ******* contest with anybody in the building department.
They just are bigger than you.

Check if 8 foot stick built walls on a block stub wall is OK with all involved and go for it.

 

[Smokeem]

Do not get into a ******* contest with anybody in the building department.
They just are bigger than you.

Check if 8 foot stick built walls on a block stub wall is OK with all involved and go for it.

We are not bigger than anyone and if they think that they are they have some issues. We are just here to interpret and enforce what the code says to make sure the structure is safe. We have the code book and some of the codes are black and white, some are really vague, and others are just down right confusing. I have been tasked many a times with people bringing in plans that are hard for me to approve right away. Only 2 times has there been a structure that was impossible for me to approve. One was a carport that they were wanting to construct with used pivot pipe and the other was a heavy steel structure without engineered plans. Most everything else you can work with the contractor or homeowner to help guide them in the right direction to make it so they can construct what they want to build into a safe structure.

 

[GMCGarage]

For $200 get an engineer to design your wall and submit it to the building department. Any engineered system trumps a prescriptive design.

 

[Innovate1]

Ok. I went back and looked at the documents again and talked to the person drawing my plans. I am getting push back from my drawing guy (not an engineer - he has someone that checks and stamps the plans) about various things like the wall framing that he claims the county will require even if it isn't in the code. He apparently just puts everything into the plans that he thinks they might want to avoid resubmittal.

I now see the distinction of "portal" panels for narrower than standard brace panels and the addition of the top 2 x 12 makes sense for that. However my plans guy has the required 4' wide brace panel but in addition is adding the 2 x 12s needed for a 2' wide portal panel.

Maybe this guy has gotten into disagreements with the code people before and they give him a hard time on everything he turns in or maybe they give everyone a hard time. Or maybe he is exaggerating things. I think it's time for me to go to the code department myself and see what they tell me.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[Innovate1]

I talked to the code department. They said 12' walls with 2x6 on 16" centers was fine. Standard stuff.

Latest prints have narrower panels for door position adjustment so portal framing with headers is needed.

 

[ddawg16]

I talked to the code department. They said 12' walls with 2x6 on 16" centers was fine. Standard stuff.

Latest prints have narrower panels for door position adjustment so portal framing with headers is needed.

I figured that was going to be the case.

On your brace panel....you might want to look at this.....

https://www.strongtie.com/steelstrongwallshearwalls_strongwallshearwalls/category

On my garage, because my garage door was so wide and real close to the wall on one side, I had to do a shear panel.....what's called a 2C...I have 1/2" plywood on both sides of the wall and nailing is like every 4"...bottom plate is 2 2x's

 

[gearhead1]

I have 13'-6" walls. 2x6 on 16" centers. i do have 2x6 blocking laid on the flat side every 4' on the seems for the full length of the wall. this is in the northeast

This was exactly what my plan called for in NC. I wanted 12’ walls for a lift. 16” OC but have to have the blocking for the OSB sheathing. The sheathing had to be nailed every 6” OC on the perimeter of each sheet and every 12” OC on the studs throughout the sheet. This is per code.

I bought a code book before starting and was worth the money because now I knew exactly what it had to be if it wasn’t called out on the plan. I had very minimal issues with the county inspector.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Is taller stub wall out of the question?
if I ever build another garage I'm pouring an 8ft wall with 3 to 4ft exposed above height of the slab. With concrete you'll have no worries damaging anything running into it with cars, atvs, put a drain in and wash cars without fear of rot or any moisture runoff from cars. Welding, grinding, flying tools, also much safer.
that's what I'd do.

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