The VISES of Garage Journal

[gman007]

I refinished a (Union) Parker 973 1/2A for my brother - still uses it, no broken slide, pics earlier back in this thread. A guy I know downstate has an earlier #436 he won't sell me...he showed me last time I was there but isn't accepting offers on it. No broken slide on that one either.

I actually have leads on 3 other Parkers...one is mine that I need to pick up, the other 2 are questionable if a deal can be made. I'll report back.

Cheers

 

[RBarnes]

Hi All
A few days ago I posted the following message:

I am doing a none scientific survey of people who actually own Parkers. How many Parkers do you have and how many have broken slides?

Looking at the data you have collected so far, I cannot help but wonder if ANY brand of vise would have 2 vises cracked or broken out of 165 examples?

I laugh at myself, because I also was a little leery of Parker vises after hearing about the broken slide problem. Thank you for doing the survey and shedding more light on this.

 

[Shiftless]

rusty:
Thanks a lot for those catalog pages.
Looking at the two vises you posted yesterday,one had Athol Machinery markings and the other one had Athol M and F. We know the foundry markings indicate the later date of manufacture yet both of them (earlier and later) had the horseshoe clip. ???
I wonder when Athol changed over to the spring and peg mounting system? Obviously it was after they changed to the new markings with the work foundry.

That question no doubt qualifies as insignificant minutia to just about everyone, but it might help those of us with these older Athol vises establish dates of manufacture.

 

[kukko]

I am doing a non scientific survey of people who actually own Parkers. How many Parkers do you have and how many have broken slides?

I currently own one (249X), sold one in the past, an 8W (selling that was really stupid, but oh well).
Neither have/had broken/damaged slides.

 

[Slednut]

I put an axle in my vise Thanksgiving Day so I could cut off the bearing and the vise broke. Must have injured it earlier and finally broke.

I switched it out with an old one with warn jaws, got tired of it really fast so I did this to the broken one to get by until I find a new one.

 

[gman007]

4 Parkers in my little collection.
None have cracks.

My Parker bear may or may not have one but he’s wearing overalls.

Shift
Ok, what are you exactly implying here with this R rated posting?

And how do you exactly propose we do this new study to determine if Parker bear has a crack or not?

 

[va.grouseman]

I currently own one (249X), sold one in the past, an 8W (selling that was really stupid, but oh well).
Neither have/had broken/damaged slides.

Did your #8W have the pipe jaws?

 

[GETRIDAONE]

It is now my 8W and it is complete with jaws.


You turn the bear over and check him out

 

[va.grouseman]

I put an axle in my vise Thanksgiving Day so I could cut off the bearing and the vise broke. Must have injured it earlier and finally broke.

I switched it out with an old one with warn jaws, got tired of it really fast so I did this to the broken one to get by until I find a new one.

Slednut, it looks like fresh metal at the break.---Were you doing any prizing?

Anyway, that's a pretty good fix, but looks like a lot of work involved.---You need some good old vintage American heavy duty iron.---You've already got the bench for it.

 

[va.grouseman]

Yep Get, Kukko should have kept that one.

 

[z-edition 006]

Any vise resturation should use this, to bad it is very expensive:

 

[Shiftless]

Reposting a picture of my Parker bear in case people missed it the first time around. This thread moves quickly.

Also shown is the bear in its normal position on top of a vise with an uncracked slide.

 

[Shiftless]

Here is a patent drawing for the internal clip retainer for the early Athol vises.
Patented by none other than Laroy Starrett.

You can see the screw and plate in 4-2

 

[gman007]

Any vise resturation should use this, to bad it is very expensive:

If it really works as advertised it is pretty neat. But I see what you mean by it is very expensive. Let me see, after I sell the house and cars, I will still be short quite a bit. I know, I will start a GoFundMe "Homeless man with rusty vises, needs help to buy a laser operated rust removal tool"

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

My dad picked up this little guy for me. It's only marked 01 made in the U.S.A.
Any idea on the maker

 

[gman007]

I put an axle in my vise Thanksgiving Day so I could cut off the bearing and the vise broke. Must have injured it earlier and finally broke.

I switched it out with an old one with warn jaws, got tired of it really fast so I did this to the broken one to get by until I find a new one.

Sled

While as VA stated that is a clever fix, vises are for most part like Humpty Dumpty. Once they break (specially catastrophic failures such as this one) , it is very hard to put them back together and after that the performance will not be the same.

Your broken vise looks like to be some kind of 4" Columbian or its variants mechanics D series (possibly D44 Mx) similar to his older brother next to it. Again reiterating what VA stated, you might want to look for an old American Machinist vise as they are a lot heftier (a typical 4" American Machinist vise will probably weigh 2-3 times as much as mechanics vise).

Meanwhile since your main objection to using the older D44 are its warn out jaw inserts, have you done any measurements to see if the jaw inserts from the broken vise will fit the older D44?

 

[KMScott]

Hey Gman, been under the weather since Friday, food poisoning I think. I was the cook for Thanksgiving for my family of 18.

I have 12 Parkers and none are broke in the slide area. The only vise I have that is broken in the slide area is a Prentiss 23, I since gave it to another GJ member.

Thanks guys for all the kind words, good to know we have each other's back.

 

[gman007]

Hey Gman, been under the weather since Friday, food poisoning I think. I was the cook for Thanksgiving for my family of 18.

I have 12 Parkers and none are broke in the slide area. The only vise I have that is broken in the slide area is a Prentiss 23, I since gave it to another GJ member.

Thanks guys for all the kind words, good to know we have each other's back.

Dr Scott
I am really sorry that you were under the weather and hopefully none of the other family members were afflicted. I hope that you get well soon.

Thank you for the Parker count.

As for Prentiss slides, well I was actually PMing with Shift and we were discussing the fact that all long in the past it was generally the Prentiss whose slide was the topic of discussion and not Parker.

The whole BS (at least IMHO) assertions regarding issues with Parker slides was started by certain ***** troll. To be frank the purpose of survey was to refute this assertion and more importantly the said freaking troll. Therefore while honestly as Shift also pointed out to me in his PM, the survey regarding the Parker slide issue might not have as much impetus now, it is still good to know that there are so many INTACT Parkers (vs none intact) and that has some value. I will tally up the results soon and I think we will call it a day.

As for having each other's back, we definitely do but we did not state anything specially anything regarding you, that was not the honest and absolute truth.

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by KMScott.

Hey Gman, been under the weather since Friday, food poisoning I think. I was the cook for Thanksgiving for my family of 18.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KM, I don't believe I'd of told that.

 

[kenc184]

KMScott, what is that interesting structure in your sig? Looks like an observatory!

 

[Slednut]

Sled

While as VA stated that is a clever fix, vises are for most part like Humpty Dumpty. Once they break (specially catastrophic failures such as this one) , it is very hard to put them back together and after that the performance will not be the same.

Your broken vise looks like to be some kind of 4" Columbian or its variants mechanics D series (possibly D44 Mx) similar to his older brother next to it. Again reiterating what VA stated, you might want to look for an old American Machinist vise as they are a lot heftier (a typical 4" American Machinist vise will probably weigh 2-3 times as much as mechanics vise).

Meanwhile since your main objection to using the older D44 are its warn out jaw inserts, have you done any measurements to see if the jaw inserts from the broken vise will fit the older D44?

Thanks for the advise, my SIL and I are checking CL every day for a replacement. Though the fix is clever because of the amount of stress I have on it I'm worried that it will fail and send parts flying injuring me or someone else. I have some 2 inch vinyl tape I may wrap around it.

BTW the vise that broke is a 5 inch and the other that needs restored is a 4 inch.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

My dad picked up this little guy for me. It's only marked 01 made in the U.S.A.
Any idea on the maker

Maybe a Bonney, looks close

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Maybe a Bonney, looks close

Thanks! yes that does look very close. I wonder why there are no makers marks on it anywhere

 

[gman007]

Thanks for the advise, my SIL and I are checking CL every day for a replacement. Though the fix is clever because of the amount of stress I have on it I'm worried that it will fail and send parts flying injuring me or someone else. I have some 2 inch vinyl tape I may wrap around it.

BTW the vise that broke is a 5 inch and the other that needs restored is a 4 inch.

Sled

As you have yourself stated the chances of fixed vise falling apart again and possible injuring you are indeed very high and honestly I am not sure if vinyl tape will be of much help.

If these were my vises until I could find a good replacement, this is what I would do (others might or might not agree and might have much better ideas).

The broken vise is done for, so I would not hesitate to use it as a parts vise to restore the older D44 4" vise. Also the older D44 as you have pointed out is essentially useless too (due to issue with jaw inserts). Additionally both vises are not high quality and expensive. So your risk of an attempt to make one whole vise from the two is not very high.

Since the broken vise has 5" jaw inserts I would remove these and shorten them to 4" (1/2" from each side). This can be done using a range of tools, such as band saw, or even a hack saw or frankly a grinder or angle grinder. The good news and bad news is that the broken vise being a lower end vise, its inserts are probably not that hardened and this is also true of the older D44, so there is no loss of quality here. Also it should be fairly easy to drill, grind/cut them

If the holes of the inserts do not lineup with the holes in the older vises jaws, drill new holes (as long as they are not too close to the existing holes in the inserts). Finally if the height does not match (the broken vise 5" inserts might be taller) I would simply grind them down as the difference in height should not be that much.

In fact it might be easiest, if you were to first take care of the holes lining up, you could then put the inserts on the old vise (symmetrically, so that the inserts protrude 1/2" from each side) and then use an angle grinder on each side to shorten the inserts flush with sides of the jaws. And then if necessary (ie there is a insert height difference) you do the same to top of the inserts.

Some might say just leave the inserts protruding 1/2" from each side but since these 1/2" ends have no shelf support, it is possible that they will break during usage and ruin the entire insert(s). So personally I would try to take care any width as well as height differences.

And hopefully some time soon you will find a better replacement but meanwhile you have one reasonably usable vise.

As I said this is what I would do but then again I have done crazier things and experiments as long as they are not costly and upside risks are not too high (which I think is applicable to your current situation)

 

[454ragtop]

Thanks! yes that does look very close. I wonder why there are no makers marks on it anywhere

Yes, Bonney was my thought as well. Have a few Bonney vises, think only 1 is marked, and strangely it's not on the vise itself, but on 1 of the mounting plates (thru the bench style).

 

[Outlawmws]

KMScott, what is that interesting structure in your sig? Looks like an observatory!

I Know! I Know!

That is actually the Good Doctor's HOME! a geodesic dome home! Very cool!

 

[KMScott]

KMScott, what is that interesting structure in your sig? Looks like an observatory!

Yes Outlaw is correct. I am easy to find, Dome House in Estes Park. Every local knows my house. I have a round Machine Shop in my basement.

 

[Outlawmws]

Shift
Ok, what are you exactly implying here with this R rated posting?

And how do you exactly propose we do this new study to determine if Parker bear has a crack or not?

MRI Scan!

I know, :tard:

 

[KMScott]

Finished a 973 Parker today and have to mention a couple things. This is the first Parker with hard jaws that I have seen or heard about. The serrations are in great shape. The jaws were put in with 3/16 roll pins, not the 13/16 soft pins used in the earlier models. The Spindle Thread is a 5/8:6 Acme Double Lead. Meaning it moves the Dynamic Support on a 3 TPI. Moves very quick.

Built the wrench, added a Bronze spacer (.155 Thick) to make the backlash tight. Tightened up the nut, but not to tight.

About the nicest fit Parker I have worked on.

 

[454ragtop]

Kevin, looks great! Is that an eccentric to tighten up the nut in the main body in the last pic?

 

[MarylandDan]

My 4 vises. Parker 63 1/2, Wilton Cadet with broken base, JH Williams machinist vise, and a PS Stubs hand vise.

 

[KMScott]

Kevin, looks great! Is that an eccentric to tighten up the nut in the main body in the last pic?

Yes kind of. I measured the gap and drilled and reamed a hole in a 1/2" round bar with the offset (.055) to fit the 5/16 pin. The nut has about .010 gap. A little room for misalignment in the spindle assy.

I finished a Reed 104 today too. On that one I made a setup like in the newer Reeds with a set screw. I'll add a few pic"s. The Reed had cast in jaws and I removed them and replaced them with custom jaws. Copied the Starrett 4" jaws. New handle and finished it with Black Oil from Sculpt Nouveau. Great stuff, dries like BLO.

 

[KMScott]

My 4 vises. Parker 63 1/2, Wilton Cadet with broken base, JH Williams machinist vise, and a PS Stubs hand vise.

I like that JH Williams Parallel clamp. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Smitty]

Just got home with the new addition to the family. It’s a Parker made Prentiss 263 1/2 with 3 1/2 “ jaws. It’s in great condition, the smooth jaws are really clean. The vise is shown in as found condition.

Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[MayerMR]

Just got home with the new addition to the family. It’s a Parker made Prentiss 263 1/2 with 3 1/2 “ jaws. It’s in great condition, the smooth jaws are really clean. The vise is shown in as found condition.

I was about 97% sure we weren't going to get through Monday without Smitty posting a new vise acquisition.

 

[gman007]

Dr Scott Both the Parker and Reed turned out fanatic. The Parker in particular is in a class of its own

 

[Slednut]

As I said this is what I would do but then again I have done crazier things and experiments as long as they are not costly and upside risks are not too high (which I think is applicable to your current situation)

Thanks again for spending time to give me great advise. I'm still looking for a really good used one but I may just spend the money for a new one.

Right now I'm looking at this one.

https://www.jbtoolsales.com/wilton-...EFz2mIO-9_ac-v8wr0F-LR_eZ7PtXNDxoCaUcQAvD_BwE

 

[Smitty]

I was about 97% sure we weren't going to get through Monday without Smitty posting a new vise acquisition.

I couldn’t help it, actually it was the second Prentiss I got today. The first one is kind of an eyesore.

 

[gman007]

Just got home with the new addition to the family. It’s a Parker made Prentiss 263 1/2 with 3 1/2 “ jaws. It’s in great condition, the smooth jaws are really clean. The vise is shown in as found condition.

Smitty strikes again and as usual scores a nice one (and sometimes two or three or ...)

 

[Smitty]

It’s kind of a long story but here goes. I bought an Orange Prentiss No. 21 on Saturday for $150. The reason that I got it so cheap is because the swivel base had been broken in half and brazed back to together years ago. I remembered seeing a parts vise for sale last week for $50 so I went to see it today. The vise is beat to death and the only thing that is in good condition is the swivel base. He took $45 so I got my swivel base and a new boat anchor all in one stop.

Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app