Help with motor wiring diagram!!

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

So I have go-kart/buggy for my kids that needs a new engine.
I bought a Duromax electric start https://www.duromaxpower.com/xp7hpe-duromax-xp16hpe
and am working on the wiring to remove the "control box" and tie it into a key at the front of the buggy. Can't leave the existing key box because it interferes with the frame - so that is not an option.

I did reach out to Duromax with questions - but was hoping you all can help me out quicker as I want to get this done for a trip we are taking on Friday.

Attached are the two pics I sent to Duromax. My biggest question is #3 on the wiring pic. Duromax confirmed that there the "on" position is not setup on their system. I have a basic three connector switch on the buggy - off, on, start. I am a little confused on the "A" wires and what happens to them when the motor is running - they shouldn't be grounded - but not powered either?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[matt_i]

Look at the "logic table" that's showing you that IG-E are jumpered when OFF and none of the others are connected when "ON".

 

[jpcjguy]

Look at the "logic table" that's showing you that IG-E are jumpered when OFF and none of the others are connected when "ON".

So the question is how can I set this up the "traditional" way where "on" powers some accessories? My ignition switch only has three terminals - off, on start.

 

[matt_i]

My thought is that the distributor coil (10) is going to be +12vdc when the ignition switch is ON, even though it doesnt specifically say that IG is connected to BAT.

 

[Bert_]

The ignition system uses a magneto. It generates it's own power and is completely separate from the battery and charging system. Grounding the Bl/R wire will stop the spark and turn off the engine. When running the Bl/R wire should not be connected to anything.

Your ignition switch may not work depending on the contacts inside.

 

[matt_i]

The ignition system uses a magneto. It generates it's own power and is completely separate from the battery and charging system. Grounding the Bl/R wire will stop the spark and turn off the engine. When running the Bl/R wire should not be connected to anything.

Good point. I was thinking distributor

 

[jpcjguy]

My thought is that the distributor coil (10) is going to be +12vdc when the ignition switch is ON, even though it doesnt specifically say that IG is connected to BAT.

Appreciate you taking a look, but not sure I follow. How would it get power?
I attached some pics of the back of the ignition switch on the control panel.
There are 4 "connections" the Blue wire is the "start". The two brown wires go to the "BAT" (Ignore the color coding on the diagram - it does not match the actual wiring) The two black wires - 1 goes to the screw above the ignition switch as a ground on the control box body. The other from (10) and (6). Look at the soldering - they appear "joined" - so that means the are always grounded??
As for those 2 "grouped" solder connections that have nothing on them - no clue what is going on there.....

 

[jpcjguy]

The ignition system uses a magneto. It generates it's own power and is completely separate from the battery and charging system. Grounding the Bl/R wire will stop the spark and turn off the engine. When running the Bl/R wire should not be connected to anything.

Your ignition switch may not work depending on the contacts inside.

I think I follow - so it appears I cannot pull this off with my 3 connector ignition switch. The Duromax switch only has 3 positions - off, on and start. I thought the 3 connector would mirror it - wait - can't I just put the Bl/R wire on the "off" or ground" contact?

so when looking at the low oil alert switch (6), when that is "closed" it will prevent the motor from running (grounding out the ignition). When the switch is in the "on" position, the ignition is out of the equation, right?

I am totally overthinking this.....I can no longer see the forest for the trees....

 

[Bert_]

If you want OFF, ACC/ON, AND START you need at least 5 terminals, maybe 4 if it uses the switch body for ground.

In a pinch you could wire the starter and accessory circuits to your 3 terminal switch. Then use a separate N/O momentary switch connected to the magneto and ground. Pushing the switch would kill the engine.

None of the ignition switches I googled have a diagram so it makes it pretty tough to recommend one. Anything meant for a lawn mower should work but you might have to figure out the terminals yourself with a meter.

This is the contacts you need.

I see a lot of 6 terminal ones that have an extra terminal for lights I think.

 

[jpcjguy]

Switch like this?
https://www.amazon.com/KKmoon-Universal-Ignition-Tractor-Trailer/dp/B01J7QEVXY/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1543433907&sr=1-3&keywords=4+Position+Ignition+Switch&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011

 

[Bert_]

Switch like this?
https://www.amazon.com/KKmoon-Universal-Ignition-Tractor-Trailer/dp/B01J7QEVXY/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1543433907&sr=1-3&keywords=4+Position+Ignition+Switch&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011

I think that switch is for an engine with an ignition coil powered from the battery so it won't work.

I think this https://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratton-Terminal-Ignition-5411K/dp/B0012W21S4/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1543438928&sr=1-1&keywords=briggs+ignition+switch would work. Not sure if the terminals are labeled so you might have to figure it out with a meter.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

This is what I would do...(probably since I'm a retired electronic technician). I like simplicity.
The cart needs two basic things, the battery/solenoid/starter motor circuit and ignition. As others mentioned, ignition is a simple magneto. Three connections, HV spark plug lead, a ground, and (your ?) the kill terminal. If nothing is connected to this kill terminal, cart will run fine as long as starting circuit...ignition switch is working; you just can't shut it off.
Me...I would use a simple push-pull two terminal switch like one shown, obtain from auto parts store. One terminal goes to ignition kill terminal (that black/red "A" lead)...other switch terminal to ground.
I would mount the switch in an easy to get to place, steering wheel, anywhere convenient to get to.
So to start, pull switch, then crank it. Push switch and it stops.
Imho that's safer/faster to shut off.
Now...if you wanted to add another safety feature, you could easily fabricate another switch for the seat. Seat switch is grounded without weight, sitting on seat switch is open, wired same way to ground other to that same "A" ignition kill.
So cart shuts off if kid falls off [emoji3].



Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Switch

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[justsam]

AS suggested, there are several ways to implement this. Best bet would be to use something that is designed for magneto ignition and battery accessories. One way not mentioned would be to use a relay to open or short the magneto. This is a readily available auto part. You would want a relay with a normally closed contact that shorts the mag. With the switch on, it would open the contact, and allow the engine to start. Only downside is there is a minimal draw from the relay coil when the engine is running. Also there is some additional complexity, but it would all work with the switch you have and a $5 relay from auto zone.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Now that I am home I looked carefully at the back of the switch and the two black wires are NOT connected. That makes more sense. Attached is what the plan is. I will grab one of those push pull for the kill switch and move the toggle to the light.
I think this will work - check my work!

Appreciate all the help!

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Looks great! Wire loom for wires going back maybe. That looks like a great cart.
The cart we had as kids Dad made in the 50s was wooden with a Briggs washing machine motor.[emoji38]

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Bert_]

I'm assuming here but I doubt you should hook a ground to your current ignition switch. The three terminals are probably B+, Accessory, and Starter.

Check with a ohm meter for sure. If you get it wrong you might fry the switch or at least blow the fuse.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I'm assuming here but I doubt you should hook a ground to your current ignition switch. The three terminals are probably B+, Accessory, and Starter.

Check with a ohm meter for sure. If you get it wrong you might fry the switch or at least blow the fuse.

That most likely was for the off "kill" position, so key off grounds the ignition. Again, this has a magneto coil. Coil has a plug wire, ground terminal, kill terminal. Grounding kill stops spark.
A push-pull switch does this.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Bert_]

That most likely was for the off "kill" position, so key off grounds the ignition. Again, this has a magneto coil. Coil has a plug wire, ground terminal, kill terminal. Grounding kill stops spark.
A push-pull switch does this.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

If thats the case he could use the ignition switch he has with no extra BS. I've never seen a switch with only 3 terminals set up that way, it would have to ground through the switch body for it to be possible.

A meter would answer all these questions very quickly...

 

[Sevenhills1952]

If thats the case he could use the ignition switch he has with no extra BS. I've never seen a switch with only 3 terminals set up that way, it would have to ground through the switch body for it to be possible.

A meter would answer all these questions very quickly...

If you read my original reply, I said "what I would do". A cart for kids it's a whole lot easier and faster pushing a kill switch in that turning a key.
All the key switch for is starting by engaging the starter solenoid. The magneto ignition is self energizing by flywheel spinning magnet.
I wouldn't connect ground to the key switch...just ground one side of push-pull switch.
Again...that's my recommendation. I like simplicity with safety in mind. If someone wants to wire in relays, etc., that's ok too!

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk