To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Going To Pour Concrete Slab, How Will I Know I Got The Strength I Wanted?

lakeroadster

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
5,166
Location
Central Colorado
I’ve tried to use the saying “Trust, but Verify” whenever I am working with a contractor. The following is what I did when the slab was poured on my barn to ensure I received the concrete I asked for. My contractor and I agreed to this, and everything went great. Additionally I had a local testing lab take 5 samples the day of the pour and perform mechanical tests at 14 day, 28 days and 56 days. More on that starting at Post #126 here: https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-high-country-barn.22110/page-7

A couple weeks before the pour get a copy of the concrete plants “Trial Mixture Summary Sheet” for the strength that you want. It will look something like this:

Trial Mixture Summary Sheet (see photo below)


Plan ahead.
You’ll want to be at the job site when the concrete truck arrives. Each individual truck that arrives will have a Mix Sheet for the load it is carrying. This Mix Sheet defines the breakdown of the materials and will correlate with the Trial Mixture Summary Sheet. It will look something like this:

Mix Sheet (See pink photo below)


Be up front with your contractor and tell them you are going to do the following:
  • Be onsite for the entire pour
  • Review the mix sheet and the amount of water that will be added.
  • Either approve or reject the load of concrete if it doesn’t meet the Trial Mixture Summary

Once you get the Mix Sheet you can check it against the Trial Mixture Summary Sheet. The critical thing is the Water Ratio to Cementitious Ratio.

That’s why it is critical that you watch to see how much water they add at the job site. If you approve the load and they start adding water, find out how much water and re-run the numbers.

The ratio on the mix sheet is the maximum.
(Note that as the mix strength increases this number drops).

If they add too much water and the ratio increases above the maximum specified number on the Trial Mixture Summary Sheet, that’s too much water, reject the load.

In the above example 4,000 psi Mix Sheet:

1,951.6 lbs = 224 Gallons of water was used
4,540 lbs = Amount of cement

1951.6 / 4540 = 0.43 = which is the Water Ratio to Cementitious Ratio

0.43 is less than the specified 0.49, therefore the Water Ratio to Cementitious Ratio is ok.
 

Attachments

  • Mix Sheet Load 1.jpg
    Mix Sheet Load 1.jpg
    58.9 KB · Views: 192
  • Mixture Summary.jpg
    Mixture Summary.jpg
    117.2 KB · Views: 173
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Blauplow

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Ca
I like what you’re doing. But what are you going to when the lab fails the test on the 56th day?
 

Toomanytools?

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
855
Location
Washington
What good does the test do on day 56? Do you go back and complain or tear out slab?
If you have a good concrete contractor you should be able to trust what he orders as to what you spec for the mix. Once on site look at mix sheet, and watch any additional water added that is your problems will come from.
 
OP
L

lakeroadster

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
5,166
Location
Central Colorado
I like what you’re doing. But what are you going to when the lab fails the test on the 56th day?

What good does the test do on day 56? Do you go back and complain or tear out slab?
If you have a good concrete contractor you should be able to trust what he orders as to what you spec for the mix. Once on site look at mix sheet, and watch any additional water added that is your problems will come from.

My contractor and I agreed to this, and everything went great.

The contractor agreed that if the concrete tests revealed the concrete didn't meet the specification that they would demolish the concrete and re-pour.

No need to only "trust"... as I stated initially..

I’ve tried to use the saying “Trust, but Verify” whenever I am working with a contractor.

Without testing, you never know what you actually got. Let's be honest, you're paying a great deal of money, getting what you paid for is the minimum, not something that is to much to ask for.
 

K13

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
2,223
Location
St. Albert, AB Canada
The contractor agreed that if the concrete tests revealed the concrete didn't meet the specification that they would demolish the concrete and re-pour.

No need to only "trust"... as I stated initially..



Without testing, you never know what you actually got. Let's be honest, you're paying a great deal of money, getting what you paid for is the minimum, not something that is to much to ask for.

He agreed or he signed a contract to the fact he would do it? Two very different things. If he is using a concrete supplier that isn't trust worthy what would make you believe he is.
 
OP
L

lakeroadster

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
5,166
Location
Central Colorado
He agreed or he signed a contract to the fact he would do it? Two very different things. If he is using a concrete supplier that isn't trust worthy what would make you believe he is.

Bonded and Insured and signed the contract.

The local mix plant here does state and federal contracts on a daily basis.

The slab in my shop, that supports a 10,000 lb capacity 2 post lift, is every bit as important to me as any bridge or structure I drive across, or any building I walk into. Why would I want to trust without verifying?

The contractor never even blinked. He does great quality work and uses great quality contractors.

When a contractor tells you he can do something, but he won't sign his name to it, it's time to find somebody else.
 

Retroman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
1,364
Location
Mojave Desert
If the Mix does not come up to strength the contractor goes to his salesman at the plant and gets them to make it right with new concrete and a credit to the contractor for his labor to remove the bad concrete and reform the work plus rebar or whatever reinforcing. a Why do they test concrete if there not going to replace substandard concrete. It will more than likely meet or exceed the 4000 psi in 5 to 7 days after the pour.

Good for you lake doing it the right way.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
L

lakeroadster

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
5,166
Location
Central Colorado
It will more than likely meet or exceed the 4000 psi in 5 to 7 days after the pour.

Good for you lake doing it the right way.

Thanks.

Test results for my 4,000 psi specified slab were:

7 day: 3,640 PSI
28 day: 4,290 PSI
56 day: 4,890 PSI

The better the mix plant the closer the actual strength will be to the specified strength.
 

ConCretin

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
3,378
Location
Central Maine
Welcome back lakeroadster. What I want to know is how a thread with over a million views didn't have a single response until someone dredged it up after 10 months. Am I missing something?!

In his usual thorough and analytical approach, lakeroadster describes perfectly the right way to QC compressive strength. I'll offer a simpler approach for those who don't have his energy and attention to detail - control your slump.

In the last thirty years I have placed tens of thousands of yards of structural concrete, the vast majority of which was tested. Not once have I removed a single yard due to inadequate compressive strength. The reason? Mix water is controlled and/or minimized with the use of water reducing admixtures.

Concrete has been around since the days of the Romans but the science has changed considerably. Most mixes today are pushing 28 day strengths in 7 days. Compressive strength is rarely if ever an issue. Considering slabs on grade aren't structural to begin with, compressive strength is far less of a concern than surface defects such as cracking, dusting, delamination, etc.

Use a midrange water reducer or keep the natural slump of your concrete under 4" and you are very likely fine. Pay attention to finishing procedures and practices that will have the greatest impact to the durability and serviceability of your floor.
 
Last edited:
OP
L

lakeroadster

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
5,166
Location
Central Colorado
Use a midrange water reducer or keep the natural slump of your concrete under 4" and you are very likely fine. Pay attention to finishing procedures and practices that will have the greatest impact to the durability and serviceability of your floor.

Thanks for the kind words LLWillysfan.

FWIW: I'm pretty sure the average folks having a slab poured have no idea what "slump" is... or what good vs. bad "finishing procedures and practices" are... let alone a "midrange water reducer".

I guess the point is, without being able to compare numbers, the average Joe won't have the experience basis to make the call.

Make sense?

Here's some links for folks that want to know more:

Slump Test Video: ASTM C143 - Slump Test of Hydraulic Cement Concrete

Slump Test Technical Data: Concrete Slump Test - Theory and Lab Test

Finishing Procedures and Practices :CIP 14 - Finishing Concrete Flatwork

Mid-range Water Reducers :How Mid-range Water Reducers Enhance Concrete Performance
 
Last edited:

Angelfire

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
1,367
Location
New Mexico and Ireland
I personally didn't worry too much whether the concrete was tested or not....I have rarely seen it fail and I was using good suppliers. Most suppliers will build a mix that hits specs within 7 days vs. 28 day. More concerning to me was ensuring the dirtwork was well compacted. For that, I did pay extra for testing....glad I did as we found a couple of places that wasn't up to snuff and the dirt guy had to redo them.
Cheers.
 

SWFLCRX

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
7
Location
Florida USA
Don't have it poured when it's too cold or too hot. Pick a mild time of the year. I'd go a bit thicker on the slab then specs requires and carefully inspect the rebar before it's poured.
 

1jjpop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
481
Location
Central Iowa
Was around pouring concrete 31years ,plus or minus. Slump is the important thing to watch ,don't pour to wet of mix. But it has to be workable ,for a good job. Good luck.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom