Another shop wiring question

[GrantOpus]

I’m trying to get power out to my new shop over the holiday and of course I have some questions.

It will be a 130ft Run.

I have 200A service to the house (main breaker is outside at the meter).

I am planning on adding a 100A breaker in the outside panel that will feed the shop

I am wanting 100A panel in the new shop.

This is the panel I was planning on buying, but I need to surface mount it and am not sure if this one will work.

Homeline 100 Amp 24-Space 48-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Plug-On Neutral Load Center with Cover - Value Pack

https://www.homedepot.com/p/204836362

Ground bar for panel:

23 Terminal Ground Bar Kit

https://www.homedepot.com/p/100129430


I am planning on 2AWG THHN copper for the two hots and common. (Red, black, white)

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/2-AWG-THHN-Building-Wire.html

I am planning on 4AWG THHN (green) for the ground

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/4-AWG-THHN-Building-Wire.html

Wire from outside panel on house to the shop will be in 2” conduit.

I know I need a couple of ground rods at the new shop, (will these work?)

1/2 in. x 8 ft. Copper Ground Rod

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202195737

I also need a disconnect on the outside of the shop (I think) or is the 100A breaker on the outside of the house at meter panel sufficient?

Anything that I am overlooking?

The shop is a metal carport style building (not sure if that matters).
I have attached an outside and inside pic.





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[cj7jeep81]

Panel should be fine (they typically can be surface or flush mounted, and the description says the cover is flush/surface). I personally prefer to put in 2 ground bar kits in the panel, just so it makes it a bit easier/cleaner to wire. Ground bars look fine as well. I don't have an outside disconnect on mine. Just goes from a breaker on my house feed, into my shop.

Only recommendation I'd make is consider using 2 gauge aluminum mobile home feeder. You would have to breaker it at 90amps or less in the house panel, but significantly cheaper (usually under $1.50 a foot for 2-2-2-4). If you need the full 100amps, it won't work, but I'd be surprised if you need it. Just make sure you torque the connections properly, and use the anti-oxidant paste.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-NOALOX-4-oz-Anti-Oxidant-Compound-30-026/202276208


If you want to buy online, it's $1.17 a foot, vs $4.68 for the copper you mentioned.

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/2-2-2-4-Aluminum-Mobile-Home-Feeder-Cable.html

 

[GrantOpus]

Thank you for your input. Is MHF direct bury or can it go in conduit?


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[cj7jeep81]

Thank you for your input. Is MHF direct bury or can it go in conduit?


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It can be direct buried, but I put mine in conduit for the extra protection.

 

[pattenp]

If using conduit from panel to panel I suggest to use individual conductors of aluminum XHHW-2. It is not direct bury and a little easier to pull not being as fat as MHF. Plus you can get XHHW-2 in #1 which will give you the full 100A if that's what you want. For 100A you'd buy #1 for the current carrying conductors and a #6 for the ground.

Oh by the way.. for 100A using copper you can use #3 and #8 for ground.

 

[GrantOpus]

Ok thank you. I was concerned with being over 100’ that I needed to go up from 3 to 2 if using copper


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[pattenp]

Ok thank you. I was concerned with being over 100’ that I needed to go up from 3 to 2 if using copper


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Nope, you're okay at 130' using #3 Cu for 100A.

 

[Bert_]

If using conduit from panel to panel I suggest to use individual conductors of aluminum XHHW-2. It is not direct bury and a little easier to pull not being as fat as MHF. Plus you can get XHHW-2 in #1 which will give you the full 100A if that's what you want. For 100A you'd buy #1 for the current carrying conductors and a #6 for the ground.

Oh by the way.. for 100A using copper you can use #3 and #8 for ground.

Good advice ^

I run direct bury wire quite a bit but I almost never pull it in conduit. XHHW is so much easier.

 

[JamesW84]

I just bought my XHHW Alum. wire: Three 2 gauge and One 4 gauge (maybe could have used 6, oh well). I was gonna get it from Wireandcableyourway as mentioned above, but found it 20% cheaper at my local electrical supply. it was .24/ft (per 2 gauge conductor) vs .35 at wireandcableyourway.com

I don't think you'd techincally need any disconnect since you'll have a breaker at the house box, but most people like to have some way to cut the power without walking 150 ft. Since you're planning to use a main breaker panel, the main breaker in the panel would serve as a (second) disconnect - the 90 amp breaker at the house also being a disconnect. If you got a main lug box instead of a main breaker box for the shop, some guys would put a disconnect box in.

I'm far from an electrician. This is just what I've gathered and believe to be accurate.

Your floor looks nice

 

[GrantOpus]

Thanks for all the info. Floor is Nohr-s. Turned out pretty good. We could have been more consistent with the flakes.




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[rburke65]

Nice looking shop and floor.

 

[rburke65]

You would be smart to run not only the 2” pvc conduit but run an additional conduit. PVC conduit is inexpensive and as long as you have the trench opened...trust me......this is inexpensive insurance. 17 years from now, you’ll thank me.

 

[b-boy]

I did the same setup for my shop. Run was ~250ft. I used 2-2-2-4 CU THHN/THWN in 2" conduit. I installed a 100A sub-panel. I have a 90A breaker in my main 200A panel. Two ground bars in the panel.

I do recommend an additional conduit run for communication. I ran fiber, but CAT6 would work as well.

I'd go with QO over Homeline. A little more expensive, but better quality IMHO.

 

[mike93lx]

I did the same setup for my shop. Run was ~250ft. I used 2-2-2-4 CU THHN/THWN in 2" conduit. I installed a 100A sub-panel. I have a 90A breaker in my main 200A panel. Two ground bars in the panel.

I do recommend an additional conduit run for communication. I ran fiber, but CAT6 would work as well.

I'd go with QO over Homeline. A little more expensive, but better quality IMHO.

Good lord, that's lot of money for wire. Would have saved a lot with aluminum

 

[GrantOpus]

You would be smart to run not only the 2” pvc conduit but run an additional conduit. PVC conduit is inexpensive and as long as you have the trench opened...trust me......this is inexpensive insurance. 17 years from now, you’ll thank me.

Thank you. I’ve waited a long time to get my own “space”. I throw some extra conduit in with the electric. Also am planning on network cable


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[GrantOpus]

I did the same setup for my shop. Run was ~250ft. I used 2-2-2-4 CU THHN/THWN in 2" conduit. I installed a 100A sub-panel. I have a 90A breaker in my main 200A panel. Two ground bars in the panel.

I do recommend an additional conduit run for communication. I ran fiber, but CAT6 would work as well.

I'd go with QO over Homeline. A little more expensive, but better quality IMHO.

Can the network cable go in the same trench or should it be separate. I know fiber will be fine but how about CAT5/6?


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[GrantOpus]

This might be a silly question but does the XHHW-2 aluminum come in diff colors?

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/1-AWG-XHHW-2-Aluminum-Building-Wire.html


I don’t see an option online but will check locally. If it’s all black how would I keep Things straight (common/hot etc)Or do I pull one wire at a time? I would think I would pull all four at once.


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[Farmallboy15]

They only sell black on the big wires. Just buy green white and red electrical tape. Mark both ends well before the pull. I fished my pull string through one section of conduit at a time as I assembled it. The hardest part was keeping 4, 150ft rolls of wire from tangling as it was pulled. I ran #2 AL XHHW from my shop to my old barn in 2" conduit. It was kind of a bear because I had used 12" elbows vs the 36" sweeps I used for the main power lines...I had planned on #4 AL but they didn't have enough in stock and for ~$1.25/ft for 2-2-2-6 how can you go wrong.

 

[GrantOpus]

Thanks Farmallboy15.


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[Dumber than lumber]

You would be smart to run not only the 2” pvc conduit but run an additional conduit. PVC conduit is inexpensive and as long as you have the trench opened...trust me......this is inexpensive insurance. 17 years from now, you’ll thank me.

Heck. I will thank you now. And I don't even have plans to do this work.
Plan it right and do it once.

 

[seedtime]

Can the network cable go in the same trench or should it be separate. I know fiber will be fine but how about CAT5/6?


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I just recently ran electrical to my detached garage. While the trench was open many GJ members suggested running a separate conduit for my media. My cost was under $15 for the pipe and elbows. The electrician fitted it to my garage and at the house for free, because he wanted it to match his workmanship. Other also suggested air lines.

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[GrantOpus]

Seedtime-

Is this what you used to go thru the wall of your building?

That was something else I wasn’t clear on....is that grey stuff on the top of the conduit body just caulk?

Can I use one of those up higher on the wall and just come in the back of my panel in the garage, or do I need to come up thru the panel from the bottom?


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[wyliesdiesels]

I have not seen this mentioned.

The neutral bar in shop subpanel needs to be isolated.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I just bought my XHHW Alum. wire: Three 2 gauge and One 4 gauge (maybe could have used 6, oh well). I was gonna get it from Wireandcableyourway as mentioned above, but found it 20% cheaper at my local electrical supply. it was .24/ft (per 2 gauge conductor) vs .35 at wireandcableyourway.com

I don't think you'd techincally need any disconnect since you'll have a breaker at the house box, but most people like to have some way to cut the power without walking 150 ft. Since you're planning to use a main breaker panel, the main breaker in the panel would serve as a (second) disconnect - the 90 amp breaker at the house also being a disconnect. [b[ If you got a main lug box instead of a main breaker box for the shop, some guys would put a disconnect box in.[/b]

I'm far from an electrician. This is just what I've gathered and believe to be accurate.

Your floor looks nice

A disconnect is required if there are more than 6 breaker handles to shut off. Aince there is a main breaker then one isnt needed. However, if it was an MLO panel, then a disconnect is required after 6 breaker handles.

 

[pattenp]

Can I use one of those up higher on the wall and just come in the back of my panel in the garage, or do I need to come up thru the panel from the bottom?


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You can use the LB high up on the wall and come directly into the back of the panel.

 

[b-boy]

Can the network cable go in the same trench or should it be separate. I know fiber will be fine but how about CAT5/6?


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As long as they're in separate conduit, you're good. You might want to price out fiber. It's not much more than cat6. Especially if you're going to use outdoor rated cat6, which I'd recommend. Conduit does not stay dry.

 

[GrantOpus]

I was looking at my meter main and I’m pretty sure that the builder used the wrong panel for a 200A service.

200A breaker (pic is too small but it is 200A)

150A panel?!?

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[GrantOpus]

What type of breaker (100A)do I need for this panel.?

Is this correct??

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[wyliesdiesels]

That is a square D panel so you need sq d breakers not siemens.

 

[Bert_]

I was looking at my meter main and I’m pretty sure that the builder used the wrong panel for a 200A service.

200A breaker (pic is too small but it is 200A)

150A panel?!?

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150 and 200A loadcenters almost always use the same guts. The main breaker would have been installed at factory. The label is either mis-marked or the breaker was swapped in the field. Neither of those things is an issue

What type of breaker (100A)do I need for this panel.?

Is this correct??

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Not even close...

You linked a siemans breaker and you obviously have a SQ D homeline panel. The breaker you linked is also a main breaker kit for a 100A panel. Look for a 100A SQ D homeline breaker.

 

[seedtime]

Seedtime-

Is this what you used to go thru the wall of your building?

That was something else I wasn’t clear on....is that grey stuff on the top of the conduit body just caulk?

Can I use one of those up higher on the wall and just come in the back of my panel in the garage, or do I need to come up thru the panel from the bottom?


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Yes, that’s the fitting that was used. The seal is some type of black putty. I am by no means an electrician, and I didn’t do the work myself, but the black putty was so perfectly formed that it looked like a grommet.



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[GrantOpus]

Got it. Thx

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[m32825]

...is that grey stuff on the top of the conduit body just caulk?

Looks like duct seal to me: duct seal