HF going after pro-tools now with ICON line.

[Hiball]

I predict at Minninum 2 Perma bans once the Icon line finally hits the shelves.... Lol

I was at HF today picking up a few odds and ends, I seen 3 ICON items, 2 torque wrenches and a 1/2 impact extension with a speed handle so you didn’t actually grab the extension (not a bad idea). I imagine like all brand whores, people will buy the torque wrenches to keep there OCD in check, but at there current price point I can’t see why one wouldn’t go with PI or CDI. I have a feeling there will be some disappointed people when the full line comes out in regards to price point. It’s one thing to convince someone to buy Brand A versus B when the price difference is significant, Once that margin shrinks it gets more difficult to persuade the masses, especially against a Brand like Snap On.

 

[techieman33]

I predict at Minninum 2 Perma bans once the Icon line finally hits the shelves.... Lol

I was at HF today picking up a few odds and ends, I seen 3 ICON items, 2 torque wrenches and a 1/2 impact extension with a speed handle so you didn’t actually grab the extension (not a bad idea). I imagine like all brand whores, people will buy the torque wrenches to keep there OCD in check, but at there current price point I can’t see why one wouldn’t go with PI or CDI. I have a feeling there will be some disappointed people when the full line comes out in regards to price point. It’s one thing to convince someone to buy Brand A versus B when the price difference is significant, Once that margin shrinks it gets more difficult to persuade the masses, especially against a Brand like Snap On.

The warranty is going to be a key factor. If it's at least as good as the name brands then they might have a chance. Especially if you have a store nearby. But if it's like the new power tools that cost nearly the same as the red, yellow, and teal ones but only has a 90 day warranty vs multiple years from the brand names then it won't be worth it.

 

[ChrisLS8]

Do you wrench for a living or in the automotive trade in general? Not my experience do pros use h.f other then a 1 time use sort of thing. Do they all use snap on? Of course not many fine brands out there... h.f. is not one of them... pros using every day tools such as h.f. ratchets, wrenches, sockets and the like? No.. shade tree or others but not pro..

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Your experience doesn't equal truth it's just what you experienced. I have the same experience with Shane working for Ford for years, lots and lots of Import tools beat on daily.

The end of the day the quality gap is narrowing quickly so an Import ratchet isn't far off a truck ratchet.

These aren't like comparing a ****** H&M poly suit with a Full canvas Brioni where the quality difference is huge to justify the price difference

 

[DFB]

The warranty is going to be a key factor. If it's at least as good as the name brands then they might have a chance. Especially if you have a store nearby. But if it's like the new power tools that cost nearly the same as the red, yellow, and teal ones but only has a 90 day warranty vs multiple years from the brand names then it won't be worth it.

Just to note. HF does offer different extended warranty plans for an additional cost at checkout in the store on power tools now. Policy comes with full replacement coverage clause during the chosen time period. I think 2 years coverage beyond the 90 day retuen warranty is max.

 

[Partsguy57]

Your experience doesn't equal truth it's just what you experienced. I have the same experience with Shane working for Ford for years, lots and lots of Import tools beat on daily.

The end of the day the quality gap is narrowing quickly so an Import ratchet isn't far off a truck ratchet.

These aren't like comparing a ****** H&M poly suit with a Full canvas Brioni where the quality difference is huge to justify the price difference

I was talking very clearly about h.f. tools ( go back and reread) if you are in the trade as a pro you do not use h.f as your every day go to tools. That does not mean they use snap on either. They are using something above the current level of h.f quality to say otherwise is a bunch of baloney....... h.f built their sales and base on about cheapest tools possible hence the reputation they have and all the curiosity of what sort of quality the next generation of tools will be. There already is talk about substantially higher prices with their new tools. Why would this be if the current crop is so good? Again no pro is using h.f. as their go to tools every day tools....

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[DFB]

^^^
Let me add to my post above obviously the extended warranty purchase adds to the overall cost and effectively narrows that lower price gap HF advertises against the various competition. Something to consider when buying and comparing tool prices when looking for the best bang for the buck.

 

[Blind1]

There sure are a lot of absolutes in this thread.

A lot of well reasoned answers as well.

The two seem to be mutually exclusive.

I wonder why.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I was talking very clearly about h.f. tools ( go back and reread) if you are in the trade as a pro you do not use h.f as your every day go to tools. That does not mean they use snap on either. They are using something above the current level of h.f quality to say otherwise is a bunch of baloney....... h.f built their sales and base on about cheapest tools possible hence the reputation they have and all the curiosity of what sort of quality the next generation of tools will be. There already is talk about substantially higher prices with their new tools. Why would this be if the current crop is so good? Again no pro is using h.f. as their go to tools every day tools....

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While I certainly don't use 100% HF stuff, I use my impact wobble extensions daily, and have for years. Made me quite a bit of money, I would say that and a free tape measure are the only things I use from there on a regular basis. And HF SAE deep impacts, 3 main sizes to run the u-joint press, hub grappler, and astro hub tools.

My generation wants to spend the minimum required on tooling, IMO. I find tools a hobby, but most just want to get the job done. Hell plenty of "old timers" are like that. They DGAF about USA manufacturing or brand names. They want to spend money guns and fishing supplies. Most use Taiwanese stuff that holds up pretty well.

 

[sberry]

There are millions of hf tools used by pro's every day. Last set of wrenches I bought was there. I didnt start out using that stuffx it just kind of happened. **** migrated in, found out it not only lasted once or a year but 20 years later is still in some brutal service, 20x as good as we thought it would be.

 

[Partsguy57]

There are millions of hf tools used by pro's every day. Last set of wrenches I bought was there. I didnt start out using that stuffx it just kind of happened. **** migrated in, found out it not only lasted once or a year but 20 years later is still in some brutal service, 20x as good as we thought it would be.

Sure there are... just like pro welders buy their stuff there, machine shops buy tooling there, automotive or house painters buy their stuff there, contractors buy their saws there, plumbers buy their stuff there, metal guys buy their stuff there, electricians buy their stuff there.... I could go on... but for some magic reason the automotive guys shop at the magic kingdom where ones dollar is worth at least 10 or more......

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[DFB]

I remember back when I was young and dumb and had my first Dodge truck. I blew a u joint and broke the rear yoke. I couldn't get the pinion nut off so I stopped at local garage and the mechanic come out carrying one those HF 3/4 drive sets back when they had the old steel box

 

[trackwelder]

Sure there are... just like pro welders buy their stuff there, machine shops buy tooling there, automotive or house painters buy their stuff there, contractors buy their saws there, plumbers buy their stuff there, metal guys buy their stuff there, electricians buy their stuff there.... I could go on... but for some magic reason the automotive guys shop at the magic kingdom where ones dollar is worth at least 10 or more......

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Well I have to disagree a bit. In my opinion the welding stuff is ****. Items that **** include welding wire, grinders, cutoff wheels, welders, jackets, strikers, torches, welding blankets. The paint brushes are terrible.

 

[Partsguy57]

Well I have to disagree a bit. In my opinion the welding stuff is ****. Items that **** include welding wire, grinders, cutoff wheels, welders, jackets, strikers, torches, welding blankets. The paint brushes are terrible.

Lol maybe you misread or I was unclear. My point is the the pro welders and such do not buy there. But some insist that pro automotive guys do... must be magic.

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[mudflap]

This is pretty much where I'm at. I don't live very close to a HF and I'm already well set for tools, but another quality option I can recommend would be nice.

I'm curious what the price will be too.I'm hoping it's not like Carlyle at Napa where it's a decent value when on sale. When it's at the normal price I usually check to see if I can wait for Zoro to put out a 20% coupon and buy Proto since the price can be fairly close. Shame since my local Napa is pretty much the only place I can go in and buy decent tools short of ordering them online. I'd buy more if the everyday price remained closer to the sale prices.

I think they mostly sell tools to the mechanics at the shops they deliver parts to.. and they get the shops 20% discount on the tools. Thats how it works at the County garage. I would never walk in to a NAPA store and pay full price for anything they have. Kinda like Grainger.. if you just walk into one of those places..and you dont have a commercial acct..your gonna get robbed...

 

[dan360]

I have a lot of Harbor Freight.

-Their cheap paint guns that used to go on sale for $8-10, I bought a bunch for painting equipment and race cars, thinking I'd just toss them out. I use them as much as my Sata guns now.
-Probably a half dozen of their cheap heat guns all over the property.
-Their $6 air die grinders/cut off wheels last at least 10 years and work pretty well for what they are.
-Impact socket set -- SAE deep 1/2" dr -- are from 1999. Haven't broke any yet.
-The $8 digital caliper has been accurate enough to reload with.
-I have a $15,000 engine on one of their engine stands as we speak. No worries.
-Their folding cherry picker is used to pull it out and put it back in. (that's what she said...)
-Their gantry crane is the best $300 I've ever spent there. Their beam trolley is hot garbage though.
-Their floor jacks are pretty decent for the price.
-Their jack stands work pretty well, too.

They make some absolute **** too but I am confident enough to tell the difference.

My KRL is lots of HF in it. It hasn't vomited yet.

 

[sberry]

They aint doing 5 billion in biz there from all hobby types. I agree that most dont use it exclusively many use a lot of it.

 

[Partsguy57]

I think they mostly sell tools to the mechanics at the shops they deliver parts to.. and they get the shops 20% discount on the tools. Thats how it works at the County garage. I would never walk in to a NAPA store and pay full price for anything they have. Kinda like Grainger.. if you just walk into one of those places..and you dont have a commercial acct..your gonna get robbed...

Robbed? What do you think a parts stores markup is?

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[Partsguy57]

I have a lot of Harbor Freight.

-Their cheap paint guns that used to go on sale for $8-10, I bought a bunch for painting equipment and race cars, thinking I'd just toss them out. I use them as much as my Sata guns now.
-Probably a half dozen of their cheap heat guns all over the property.
-Their $6 air die grinders/cut off wheels last at least 10 years and work pretty well for what they are.
-Impact socket set -- SAE deep 1/2" dr -- are from 1999. Haven't broke any yet.
-The $8 digital caliper has been accurate enough to reload with.
-I have a $15,000 engine on one of their engine stands as we speak. No worries.
-Their folding cherry picker is used to pull it out and put it back in. (that's what she said...)
-Their gantry crane is the best $300 I've ever spent there. Their beam trolley is hot garbage though.
-Their floor jacks are pretty decent for the price.
-Their jack stands work pretty well, too.

They make some absolute **** too but I am confident enough to tell the difference.

My KRL is lots of HF in it. It hasn't vomited yet.

I have a lot of Harbor Freight.

-Their cheap paint guns that used to go on sale for $8-10, I bought a bunch for painting equipment and race cars, thinking I'd just toss them out. I use them as much as my Sata guns now.
-Probably a half dozen of their cheap heat guns all over the property.
-Their $6 air die grinders/cut off wheels last at least 10 years and work pretty well for what they are.
-Impact socket set -- SAE deep 1/2" dr -- are from 1999. Haven't broke any yet.
-The $8 digital caliper has been accurate enough to reload with.
-I have a $15,000 engine on one of their engine stands as we speak. No worries.
-Their folding cherry picker is used to pull it out and put it back in. (that's what she said...)
-Their gantry crane is the best $300 I've ever spent there. Their beam trolley is hot garbage though.
-Their floor jacks are pretty decent for the price.
-Their jack stands work pretty well, too.

They make some absolute **** too but I am confident enough to tell the difference.

My KRL is lots of HF in it. It hasn't vomited yet.

Just when you think it can't get better... it does.. a h.f. spray gun compared to a sata gun....

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[sberry]

He didnt say it was better, he said he uses it more.
I got aome cheap stuff I found I was using more, I actually grab the BD grinder before the Milwaukee that sits next to it.

 

[mudflap]

Robbed? What do you think a parts stores markup is?

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I think it varies..depending on what the item is, and how much of it they are moving. and i really dont care. The point i was making is NAPA isnt set up for walk in customers.. Why do you think they close at 5pm and arent open weekends...? They dont want to deal with Harry homeowner, Driveway Dave, and the weekend warriors..

 

[dan360]

Just when you think it can't get better... it does.. a h.f. spray gun compared to a sata gun....

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For the record I said I used them as much as the Sata--didn't compare the two. But, that said:

Why run the risk of messing up an expensive Sata gun with MRO industrial **** single stage Hitachi orange of questionable age when the HF gun does good enough?

Why pay $300 for another fancy gun to shoot primer when the $8 HF does good enough for a lay down that gets over half sanded off anyhow?

I don't own an industrial paint gun washer so have to rely on the old fashioned hand way. It's a PITA to clean guns, but honestly I get more than one use out of the HFs enough to say hey, they're not half bad.

Speaking specifically of the purple gravity feed HVLP if we are being particular. Their older non HVLP guns were crazy for shooting industrial enamels too.
https://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html

At any rate you're more than welcome to come over and check them out. I have food and drink.

 

[sberry]

There was a point I would have thought the same, wouldn't even have bothered to try a cheap paint gun, would have said junk before trying it,, I would say this is pretty evident here.
I used a few HF grinding wheels, they worked. Dont recall that it was night or day and not remarkable enough to give it another thought.
I am not all that impressed with napa as the exclusive supier of quality parts. No better, no worse than the rest. The store I used for a decade often carried 2 lines of common parts, could get Echlin or knockoff. They.sold **** reman clutch stuff for long time till we just quit or started ordering new.

 

[sberry]

They will sell to anyone. I didnt care much for the paint line.

 

[Partsguy57]

I think it varies..depending on what the item is, and how much of it they are moving. and i really dont care. The point i was making is NAPA isnt set up for walk in customers.. Why do you think they close at 5pm and arent open weekends...? They dont want to deal with Harry homeowner, Driveway Dave, and the weekend warriors..

You said they rob... I'm a past owner... what percentage do you consider robbery?

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[Partsguy57]

There was a point I would have thought the same, wouldn't even have bothered to try a cheap paint gun, would have said junk before trying it,, I would say this is pretty evident here.
I used a few HF grinding wheels, they worked. Dont recall that it was night or day and not remarkable enough to give it another thought.
I am not all that impressed with napa as the exclusive supier of quality parts. No better, no worse than the rest. The store I used for a decade often carried 2 lines of common parts, could get Echlin or knockoff. They.sold **** reman clutch stuff for long time till we just quit or started ordering new.

Quality went away years ago.... the demand is for cheap...

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[M6erfan]

My local Napa has been in business for decades. I wonder how they survive(d)???

 

[dan360]

It's a funny thing.

Company A says we have to find a way to be more competitive. I know, cut costs and lower quality juuuuuuuuust a wee bit.

Company B says we have to find a way to be more competitive. I know, increases prices and improve quality juuuuuuuuust a wee bit.

 

[Partsguy57]

My local Napa has been in business for decades. I wonder how they survive(d)???

My store also has been around for decades and still is... i just switched gears as the market was changing to cheap and you have to work harder to make the same... I had a huge inventory and rolled that into several different things..it went well life is good. Go talk to your local store he will confirm cheap is now king.

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[Partsguy57]

It's a funny thing.

Company A says we have to find a way to be more competitive. I know, cut costs and lower quality juuuuuuuuust a wee bit.

Company B says we have to find a way to be more competitive. I know, increases prices and improve quality juuuuuuuuust a wee bit.

The consumer ultimately sets the price and quality they want. The markets/companys/manufactures respond to this.

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[Partsguy57]

I think they mostly sell tools to the mechanics at the shops they deliver parts to.. and they get the shops 20% discount on the tools. Thats how it works at the County garage. I would never walk in to a NAPA store and pay full price for anything they have. Kinda like Grainger.. if you just walk into one of those places..and you dont have a commercial acct..your gonna get robbed...

Still waiting for the percentage for when you think it becomes robbery..... curious on where you got that from or were you just talking out your behind? If not let's hear the percentage the daily average a store shoots for.

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[65k10]

I think they mostly sell tools to the mechanics at the shops they deliver parts to.. and they get the shops 20% discount on the tools. Thats how it works at the County garage. I would never walk in to a NAPA store and pay full price for anything they have. Kinda like Grainger.. if you just walk into one of those places..and you dont have a commercial acct..your gonna get robbed...

I think it varies..depending on what the item is, and how much of it they are moving. and i really dont care. The point i was making is NAPA isnt set up for walk in customers.. Why do you think they close at 5pm and arent open weekends...? They dont want to deal with Harry homeowner, Driveway Dave, and the weekend warriors..

Interesting. I guess I was never really aware that Napa was supposed to be geared more towards commercial accounts since the only ones I really frequent are in my isolated neck of the world. To an extent they do try to cater to regular people like local farmers since I'm not sure there would be enough business for them otherwise. The closest one is even open for part of Saturday. I've paid what Napa charges for stuff because sometimes they are the only place in town that has what I need without having to order it.

 

[mudflap]

My local Napa has been in business for decades. I wonder how they survive(d)???

They do very well selling to, and delivering to, auto/big truck shops. The garage i work at isnt a high volume shop..and we spend over $2,000 a month. We are 80% a maintenance shop. County trucks, Emergency Apparatus, etc.

 

[sberry]

One reason there is more demand for cheaper is cars last so much longer. Other than a few brake parts I cant remember the last time I replaced a replacement part. By the time it needs something its on the downside of its lifecycle.
Our Napa tanked near here. They changed owners, the crowd they catered to, the help. 3 new stores since. 2 I havnt been in. I live in small town we just got the 1st real local by a small family chain. They do a good job,

 

[Shane6377]

Do you wrench for a living or in the automotive trade in general? Not my experience do pros use h.f other then a 1 time use sort of thing. Do they all use snap on? Of course not many fine brands out there... h.f. is not one of them... pros using every day tools such as h.f. ratchets, wrenches, sockets and the like? No.. shade tree or others but not pro..

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No I don't wrench for a living. I done all my own maintenance and repair on vehicles and farm equipment since I was a kid. The "pros" keep screwing things up. There's a difference between a career mechanic and a pro mechanic.

Lots of career mechanics think they need truck tools. Most pros know better. fWIW I only own about 5 items from HF. I'm just going off of what those in the automotive fields have told me.

It will be interesting to see the sales once these Icon tools come out.






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[Partsguy57]

They do very well selling to, and delivering to, auto/big truck shops. The garage i work at isnt a high volume shop..and we spend over $2,000 a month. We are 80% a maintenance shop. County trucks, Emergency Apparatus, etc.

You mean you assume they do very well.. margins are much lower then most know. You are correct 2000 per month is low. A busy one man shop in the 90's and early 2000's about 5000 a month.

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[mudflap]

Still waiting for the percentage for when you think it becomes robbery..... curious on where you got that from or were you just talking out your behind? If not let's hear the percentage the daily average a store shoots for.

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How can they afford to give their commercial accts 20% off list, and still make money.. You owned one..? So you must know the invoice shows the walk in price on each item..then beside it..your shops discounted price..

 

[Farmall450]

Milwaukee power tools are made in CHINA!!
We have members who bleed Milwaukee red but that does not seem to upset them. headscratch

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This is very true.

I'm a DeWalt guy, tho.

 

[Partsguy57]

One reason there is more demand for cheaper is cars last so much longer. Other than a few brake parts I cant remember the last time I replaced a replacement part. By the time it needs something its on the downside of its lifecycle.
Our Napa tanked near here. They changed owners, the crowd they catered to, the help. 3 new stores since. 2 I havnt been in. I live in small town we just got the 1st real local by a small family chain. They do a good job,

Wrong..... cheap is king.. go talk to your local owner they will confirm.

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[Partsguy57]

No I don't wrench for a living. I done all my own maintenance and repair on vehicles and farm equipment since I was a kid. The "pros" keep screwing things up. There's a difference between a career mechanic and a pro mechanic.

Lots of career mechanics think they need truck tools. Most pros know better. fWIW I only own about 5 items from HF. I'm just going off of what those in the automotive fields have told me.

It will be interesting to see the sales once these Icon tools come out.






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So are you a fan of h.f. stuff?You don't appear to be as you own very little. As far as pros screwing things up. Yep... not much talent coming into the industry as wages are to low. Money attracts talent. Another reason I got out.

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[Partsguy57]

How can they afford to give their commercial accts 20% off list, and still make money.. You owned one..? So you must know the invoice shows the walk in price on each item..then beside it..your shops discounted price..

Percentage please?? I will be happy to tell you how it works, percentage first please? I also would like to know why you deserve the the same discount as a shop does?

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