What sized TLB for building my house

[Bigblockyeti]

I'm going to start building my own house possibly in two years, more likely 4-5 years but knowing I'll be doing the foundation (crawl space) and septic system myself, I want to buy a new, small TLB package. I need something that will get the job done, not super fast, but not tearing it up either as I'm planning on buying new. The house site has already been way over cleared thanks to an incompetent contractor that took down 70-80 trees that were to stay in addition to the only ~15 that needed to be taken down.

The house will be two story 3000-3500sqft. with an attached 25'x40' three car garage, later a proper shop will be built, ~40'x70' that the TLB will also be used for. I'm seeing several package from the bigger manufacturers in the $17.5K - $19.5K range including the tractor, loader, scraper box, bush hog & trailer minus the quick detach hoe that I'm guessing(?) will be an additional $2500-$3500 depending on the size. I'd like to get a full package (TLB + trailer and no other attachments) no more than 5000lbs.

The scope of the work will be excavating for a 1250 gallon septic tank, trunk and lateral lines and the footers & garage for the house. I will be in no big hurry to get all of this done but I can't be working on just these aspects of the build for 2 months either. I will be able to keep the machine on site and won't have to haul it regularly so that wont' be part of the equation, the speed of the machine will be. I'm also concerned about how complicated some of the new diesel tractor emissions systems have become, I don't know if that's trickled down to the sub-40hp machines yet or not but the less emissions controls and hardware the better.

All opinions and suggestions are welcome. P.S. I won't be digging any stumps with this!

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... Unless there's absolutely No rocks in yer ground,......

I think yer lookin' at too small of a machine,.....

Go 8 ton class, 'n go used to stay in budget,.....
Case 580, Ford 555, Cat 216, etc,.....

 

[cvairwerks]

On the septic, I wouldn't bother doing it myself. I know that in Texas, the installer has to be licensed. When I had a new system installed at one of our places, they got there about 7:30 in the morning and had everything done and ready for inspection by noon. They were able to get the inspector out by 3 that afternoon and had it buried and were gone before 6 pm.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

No license needed to install the septic, just need to do it right and make sure it'll pass inspection, plus doing it right now would save me ~$2400 that could go toward justifying the TLB.

I realize a TLB weighing under 2600lbs. with less than 30hp is small and not going to move mountains but I've got a reasonable idea of how long it would take me to dig a 18" x 2' x 100' trench and there aren't too many rocks over the size of a softball where the house and septic will be. I used to occasionally run a CAT 330F and I could knock the whole job out in 8-9 hours with that but a $400,000 machine that would require a semi and permitting to move really isn't in the budget. For right now, <$24K and time are in the budget. I also use to run a triple nickle with an extendahoe but I don't need the capability it has nor would it be as useful (or easy to store) when my bigger projects are complete.

 

[readhead]

What companies are you looking at? If you are looking for a TLB the hoe should be included in the price. It will be quite a bit more as an add on. Are you looking at 4WD? Anything above 26 HP falls under Tier 4 requirements. Depending on the size of the hoe it could be 6K.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

JD, Kubota, Kioti, New Holland, MF & primarily. The prices I stated were 4x4's without the hoe so technically only a TL with the B purchased separately. I've only just started research regarding prices and was guessing the separate hoe price. I don't want to waste any dealers' time until I'm closer to buying. Most if not all of them I've seen so far were 23-26hp.

 

[readhead]

I sell Deere. Of the tractors on your list I would cross off NH and Massey. Both are rebranded tractors and when we take them on trade they go straight to auction. I'm guessing that you are getting the best price from Kioti. I think they are good machines but have limited models and options. JD and Kubota should be running neck and neck. If you start looking closer you will find that JD has more standard features. For the money you want to spend you are looking at a 1025R TLB or a BX23S. Of course I'm going to push you toward JD but the decision should come down to which dealer you are more comfortable with.

 

[Tractorsellr]

I sell Deere. Of the tractors on your list I would cross off NH and Massey. Both are rebranded tractors and when we take them on trade they go straight to auction. I'm guessing that you are getting the best price from Kioti. I think they are good machines but have limited models and options. JD and Kubota should be running neck and neck. If you start looking closer you will find that JD has more standard features. For the money you want to spend you are looking at a 1025R TLB or a BX23S. Of course I'm going to push you toward JD but the decision should come down to which dealer you are more comfortable with.

Solid advise here for a TLB.

 

[Toomanytools?]

I looked at that route but a back hoe attachment was adding $5000- 7000, looking at a smaller under 25hp unit was too small. Most people I have talked with say that the small hoe is a pain because it is so limited, unless your doing small stuff. Have you looked at buying a used mini excavator? My BIL, bought an older Kubota mini kx31or 35? can't remember model, like a 5000lb unit. Paid around $9k, he has done a lot of irrigation work, I used it to trench power. He loans it out to his BIL, no troubles with it at all like 1900 hours on it.
In the beginning of your build you will have a need, but after a few years it will sit. With a used mini you can sell it and most likely get your money back. Just a thought.

 

[Jackfre]

Solid advise here for a TLB.

Uhhhh, not so sure? If I am not mistaken JD's compacts are manuf by Yanmar and re-branded as JD? Good tractors, but... I agree on the MF and NH. I have a BX23 and a BX 2660. Both great tractors, but I'm not sure they will do what the OP wants. He said speed was important. That means power & weight. My BX's are great, but I'm never in a hurry on them. To get heavy jobs done you need to be able to put the power to the ground. When I bought my 2660 I incorrectly decided that I didn't need a BH. Very large mistake on my part. Prior to finding the 23 I looked at getting Woods BH. Pricey and not as strong as the factory set-up. For me, I looked at Kioti, Mahindra, JD and Kubota. I had limited experience and wanted a GOOD dealer close-by. While the Kubota's have been reliable it is nice to have someone to consult with. You do not describe the scope of the work you are going to be asking of this machine. That should help with advise on the machine. Also, do you intend to keep it after the house is built? I recently ran a friends Kubota excavator. THAT is a hell of a piece of equipment. His was in the 35 hp range if not mistaken. Perhaps you should look that way first and after construction swap it for the smaller BX or B of your choice, or whatever JD manuf our friend recommends.

 

[readhead]

JD builds all their own tractors. They have been using Yanmar engines since the eighties in the smaller compacts. The 260B backhoe will dig down to 5', about the same as the BX23S. It won't be fast but it will get the job done. Then he will have it to maintain the property. A 1025R TLB is going in the neighborhood of 21K right now with some insentives available also. You can't run a brush hog behind a mini ex.

 

[finn]

I bought a Kioti CK 4010, with a cab, primarily because I wanted a front mounted Snowblower. It was a better deal than the Deere dealer could make: more features and less money. It also has a loader for summer use, and a box blade.

I looked into a subframe mounted hoe. List price was $8k, but the dealer knocked off $1k without really negotiating on my part.

In the end, I bought a Deere 26G mini ex for trenching and removing small stumps.

Comment on the tractor: these compact tractors are great around the house, but aren’t rugged enough to be considered real construction equipment. I had a Deere skid steer previously that was much more rugged.

I see people using the even smaller subcompact equipment and think “WTF”.

The contractor that put up the neighbors new house had a Kubota CTT TLB on site, but used a mini excavator to dig the basement and trench, a skid steer for general dirt work, and a small dozer for large stumps.

I think the only time I saw the Kubota move was to prep for a small shed they built to store the kayak and lawn mower.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

No I'm not 1930, I did watch that thread closely though, thus the reason I specifically identified i wouldn't be stumping with it.

When I was referring to speed, I didn't so much mean production as actual speed; swing speed, shoulder speed, travel speed, etc. I realize some worn out, old lumbering 16 ton behemoth would complete the job faster but when the job's done it'll be useless to me. The loader, brush hog and scraper box will be used throughout the year after the big projects are complete.

I've got a soft spot for MF as that's what my grandpa used to buy but I didn't realize they were just rebranded now. Kioti is the cheapest but so far I've only sat on them, never operated one. A buddy has a smaller Kubota than I'm looking at and it's a very nice machine. It probably going to be just between them and JD, and the JD dealership is easiest to get to for me. I really need to get more seat time with as many as I can and go from there.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

You do not describe the scope of the work you are going to be asking of this machine. That should help with advise on the machine.

From my original post:
"The scope of the work will be excavating for a 1250 gallon septic tank, trunk and lateral lines and the footers & garage for the house."

 

[Strouty]

Doing a septic is not really hard, if you are not required to be licensed, talk to the person in charge of the inspection, they are usually pretty helpful. Your state may even offer information, Maine had a class on it that cost $65 and covered a ton of info, the instructor was also super helpful.

Just don't buy a DR Backhoe, they ****.

 

[larry_g]

From my original post:
"The scope of the work will be excavating for a 1250 gallon septic tank, trunk and lateral lines and the footers & garage for the house."

Figure out how deep the bottom of the hole has to be to fit in your tank. We put in a 1000 gallon a couple of years ago and I was just able to get the hole dug with a Case 580ck. Anything smaller would not have gotten the job done without making the hole so big that one could drive the tractor into it to get to depth. So check the digging depth of the rig your looking at.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[matt_i]

Can you just rent it? I rented a mini ex for $300/day (one day) which did a lot of digging. I bet there are larger ones that cost more but the rent v buy in this case could be mega money you can use elsewhere.

I doubt this has the balls to rig a 1200 gallon concrete tank into place due to the long reach, but its a WAG..I've not attempted this job and not studied it either.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Can you just rent it? I rented a mini ex for $300/day (one day) which did a lot of digging. I bet there are larger ones that cost more but the rent v buy in this case could be mega money you can use elsewhere.

I doubt this has the balls to rig a 1200 gallon concrete tank into place due to the long reach, but its a WAG..I've not attempted this job and not studied it either.

The primary focus is what it will be used for after the building projects are complete. I'm positive it wouldn't be possible, much less safe to rig a 1200 gallon concrete tank into place, my tank will be plastic and is less than 400lbs.

 

[Radix2]

I have a kubota B3030, perfect size imo for use around the house after the building... if it is big enough for what you have in mind. The backhoe can dig to about 7.5 feet I think, but with limited reach the tank may be a chore unless you can work all around. Just got done snowblowing, 5 feet at a time it goes fast. Loader and blades are a reasonable size, but still nothing like a full size unit. Great for landscaping, hauling firewood, etc. but still easy on the ground to not make a mess wherever you go ( like skid steers, mini ex, etc.)

 

[Bigblockyeti]

The B3030 sounds like a good size, is your's a factory Kubota hoe? I can reach all around where the tank will be. Good maneuverability and minimal ground damage will be my long term priorities. I will be doing much of the same stuff, again, long term; landscaping, mowing brush, hauling firewood, gravel drive maintenance, hauling small logs to the mill, etc.

 

[marineman]

Look big picture what you want to do with the tractor after the main building is done. You mentioned brush hogging, how much land are you looking to cover with it and how much time are you willing to commit? I'm a died in the wool green and yellow type but Kubota makes some pretty nice machines and the others are usable. I've never even seen one in person but there's quite a few good reviews of Mahindra out there and they're definitely cheaper than the others if you have a dealer local. I would figure out what size brush hog you want to run and go with a machine that's in the middle or top of the HP rating for that size. A 25hp machine will bog with even a small brush hog if you get into thick stuff. Remember attachments are rated for PTO HP and most advertisements are engine HP. Also for your backhoe, it doesn't take much HP at all to run a hydraulic pump, you dig with weight not power.

 

[Fix Until Broke]

Just another thought - You can probably get a used ~5t Mini Ex and mid size SSL for your mid 20's budget. Both will be infinitely better at doing what they do than a TLB trying to do everything, and you'll likely have higher quality equipment as well.

 

[James-W]

Can you rent something to use that would do the job? I don't know if that is practical or not, but I would think if you only need it to do a few things then maybe renting a suitable piece of equipment would be a less expensive way of doing it.

I realize that if you buy the equipment at some point down the road you can sell it and recoup at least part of what you spent, and maybe even all that you spent. But in the meantime you have spent several thousand dollars that could have been used to construct the building.

 

[readhead]

The hole can also be done as a drive in hole. Ramp one end and you can also just slide the tank into the hole. Many people are losing site of the OP's need for a machine to use after the construction for property maintenance. I'm pretty sure that most of the naysayers have never owned a compact tractor and aren't familiar with their abilities. With a box blade he can grade the site. With the hoe he can trench for utilities and concrete. With some pallet forks he can unload material. He can install a belly mower and mow all the new lawn.

 

[Firebrick43]

The hole can also be done as a drive in hole. Ramp one end and you can also just slide the tank into the hole. Many people are losing site of the OP's need for a machine to use after the construction for property maintenance. I'm pretty sure that most of the naysayers have never owned a compact tractor and aren't familiar with their abilities. With a box blade he can grade the site. With the hoe he can trench for utilities and concrete. With some pallet forks he can unload material. He can install a belly mower and mow all the new lawn.

Oh please. Dismiss others opinions by lack of ownership? Entering politics soon? Why must I shovel my cash out the window buying such a machine? Can we not witness the folly of our neighbors using one and failing? Can I not, working as a mech at a C/IH dealer not see the short comings? Walk through a tractor salvage yard and notice how many compacts broke in half or three point attach points ripped out of the rear end casting?

As far a moving things with a sub compacts loader. 700lbs and 6' tall. A good heavy hand cart can move as much and height limitations greatly reduce the utility. Even my 50hp tractor can't move a full pallet of shingles and can barely put its bucket to the eave of a ranch house.

A sub compact tractor is like a Swiss Army knife. They do a little of everything, poorly!

A zero turn mows twice as fast.

A backhoe doesn't belong on the back of any tractor not designed for it. It tears them up and they are pathetic. I have seen the destruction of tractors from these backhoes and it expensive. I wouldn't put a backhoe on a 80hp farm tractor let alone on a compact one. A mini excavator is much faster to boot and rental is not outragous. And the OP talking about a 330 cat???? What does a 330 have to do with any residential construction project. I think 1930 to.

 

[Bondo]

Oh please. Dismiss others opinions by lack of ownership?
A sub compact tractor is like a Swiss Army knife. They do a little of everything, poorly!

Ayuh,...... Ditto,..... I not only fix 'em, I operate as well,.....

 

[cj7jeep81]

My dad has a Kubota with backhoe (B2320 or something). We've used the backhoe a decent bit, biggest job was running about 200' of drain lines for my downspouts. It handled it fine, but took all day and was a slow process. Set the bucket and out riggers, turn around the seat, dig about 5', turn around the seat, raise teh bucket and outriggers, move 5', repeat. Also, I'm wanting to say the backhoe was about $6k, and this was about 9 years ago. I rented a mini-ex one weekend to dig up some stumps dad's couldn't handle, and it was ridiculously more productive.

Looking back, dad would do it differently. He'd buy a slightly bigger tractor, and then rent the excavator the once a year (or less) that its been needed.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Oh please. Dismiss others opinions by lack of ownership? Entering politics soon? Why must I shovel my cash out the window buying such a machine? Can we not witness the folly of our neighbors using one and failing? Can I not, working as a mech at a C/IH dealer not see the short comings? Walk through a tractor salvage yard and notice how many compacts broke in half or three point attach points ripped out of the rear end casting?

As far a moving things with a sub compacts loader. 700lbs and 6' tall. A good heavy hand cart can move as much and height limitations greatly reduce the utility. Even my 50hp tractor can't move a full pallet of shingles and can barely put its bucket to the eave of a ranch house.

A sub compact tractor is like a Swiss Army knife. They do a little of everything, poorly!

A zero turn mows twice as fast.

A backhoe doesn't belong on the back of any tractor not designed for it. It tears them up and they are pathetic. I have seen the destruction of tractors from these backhoes and it expensive. I wouldn't put a backhoe on a 80hp farm tractor let alone on a compact one. A mini excavator is much faster to boot and rental is not outragous. And the OP talking about a 330 cat???? What does a 330 have to do with any residential construction project. I think 1930 to.

Did you read any of what I'm planning on doing? Of the many neighbors that have one, they've all been a godsend. The capabilities are well within what I'm trying to do, which does not include quickly loading a tri-axle. It will only perform poorly if you try to make it do something outside of it's capabilities. Zero turns don't mow very fast over rough terrain in 18" grass. I'm only interested in a compact tractor that WAS designed for a backhoe. Renting a mini-excavator isn't out of the question for the aspects of construction where I need to excavate, they don't do so well bush hogging. A CAT 330 is where I have experience, that's why I mentioned it for reference, for those who took the time to read (AND COMPREHEND) what I've stated. No, I'm not 1930, we've been over that already too, do you have anything constructive to add?

 

[buzzworth]

I did much of what you are planning a few years ago with my B7800 Kubota. I bought the backhose when I purchased the tractor and had it outfitted for it. Fluid filled tires, four wheel drive. It has done everything well but not as fast as a larger unit. I've even dug out some fairly large stumps.
Dealer was very helpful when I bought. We discussed usage and he even asked what I would be doing after the construction. I have a 5 foot tiller and did have a box grader but sold that when I no longer needed it. I mow with a Grasshopper diesel 325D, so that was never a factor in the decision.
Tractor is mostly used for maintenance on 6 acres and basic dirt moving and tree cleanup.

 

[MagKarl]

The biggest thing is the time. If time matters, don't mess around. Buy a used full size backhoe or mini-ex for the project, then sell and buy your TLB to maintain the place.

I have a 25HP Kubota and backhoe. I've done all the jobs you are planning. They take a long time on a small tractor.

 

[Orionrising]

I agree buy the tractor you want for after and unless you really think you need a backhoe after skip that. 5 ton mini excavator is about 300 bucks a day. 10 ton not too much more. For the 7 grand the hoe would cost you can rent a mini every week for the next five years. Or buy a higher hp tractor.

Another brand I am seeing more of these days is yanmars.i like the look looks of beefy steel.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Jackfre]

Thanks for the corrections. As to the backhoe, I have a friend who bought a NH, about 50 hp and added the NH backhoe. Breaks down constantly and you have to get off and re-mount the drivers seat to move it. My BX23 is a great piece, but if I have a lot of digging to do I kinda feel like I’m trying to empty Lake Tahoe with a tablespoon.

 

[cj7jeep81]

I agree buy the tractor you want for after and unless you really think you need a backhoe after skip that. 5 ton mini excavator is about 300 bucks a day. 10 ton not too much more. For the 7 grand the hoe would cost you can rent a mini every week for the next five years. Or buy a higher hp tractor.

Another brand I am seeing more of these days is yanmars.i like the look looks of beefy steel.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Might want to double check your math on that one
But I agree, for the relatively little use the original poster is talking, I would rent a mini to get that work done.

 

[Orionrising]

Math Depends on the location. I can have a 5 ton delivered for 1200 a week or 9 ton for 1400.weekly is cheaper than daily.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[ishiboo]

Digging a septic and crawlspace foundation are a job for an excavator. You're going to spend FOREVER on a TLB doing this. Buy a TLB when you are done for your landscaping/etc. if you need it.

- Owner of 25HP and 60HP TLBs, who rents a mini or mid-size excavator for projects like this.

 

[Firebrick43]

Did you read any of what I'm planning on doing? Of the many neighbors that have one, they've all been a godsend. The capabilities are well within what I'm trying to do, which does not include quickly loading a tri-axle. It will only perform poorly if you try to make it do something outside of it's capabilities. Zero turns don't mow very fast over rough terrain in 18" grass. I'm only interested in a compact tractor that WAS designed for a backhoe. Renting a mini-excavator isn't out of the question for the aspects of construction where I need to excavate, they don't do so well bush hogging. A CAT 330 is where I have experience, that's why I mentioned it for reference, for those who took the time to read (AND COMPREHEND) what I've stated. No, I'm not 1930, we've been over that already too, do you have anything constructive to add?

I read what you posted.Their is no compact tractor "designed" to reliably and durably handle a backhoe. The backhoes on them are adapted to the tractor and strife with compromises as a result.

A compact tractor with belly mower(or a tiny bush 4' hog) doesn't handle tall grass well either. Which is why I mow several neighbors pasture with my tractor/bushog.

I read what you said about the 330. You were specifically using its Size (even commented to oversize permits, do you have a semi and a talbert?) to reason why you didn't want to rent a hydraulic hoe even though many of proper size are easily available. While I left it out, I find it dubious that anyone who owns a 330 would let someone operate one without a lot of proven experience in smaller hoes first.

Other and I have made the 1930 reference because it's apparent that your don't want any advice that doesn't align with your preconceived notions.

 

[readhead]

Every manufacturer has specific models that have frames designed for backhoes. Up until this year the very popular JD 3E series has not been available with a backhoe. Now it is. I think you are misinformed about compact tractors.

 

[Radix2]

The B3030 sounds like a good size, is your's a factory Kubota hoe? I can reach all around where the tank will be. Good maneuverability and minimal ground damage will be my long term priorities. I will be doing much of the same stuff, again, long term; landscaping, mowing brush, hauling firewood, gravel drive maintenance, hauling small logs to the mill, etc.

Yes, frame mounted factory hoe. I'd agree with the folks here generally, the hoe is the least used attachment, so if cost is at all a consideration, I'd rent for that and skip it unless you have many other projects for it.

But for general around the property maintenance and decent sized projects, the compact size tractors are really nice.

Just finished installing 6000 square feet of pavers - 22,000 bricks, 100 ton of stone, sand, grading, etc. perfect for that sort of stuff.

 

[maxpat82]

I have a BX2350 (tractor, loader, mower, snowblower...no backhoe)
and I have seen what a backhoe on this can do and it's impressive for the size...but time on the project is the killer.

Yes get a BX23 TLB...but plan on renting a bigger hoe to dig the house/garage foundation and septic installation...

the BX will be great for trenching, nivelling and any other work around the house during and after construction....but not for for "big excavation job".

 

[Firebrick43]

Every manufacturer has specific models that have frames designed for backhoes. Up until this year the very popular JD 3E series has not been available with a backhoe. Now it is. I think you are misinformed about compact tractors.

Don't confuse a factory available attachment with being properly designed to durably and realiably handling the attachment. Many companies are all to happy to give customers what they want even if the customer doesn't understand the implications.