The VISES of Garage Journal

[RBarnes]

Is it normal for the stationary jaw to wiggle with the pin inserted? I’m not sure if it should be a precise fit or need pounding in like a nail to stabilize the jaw. I have it all greased up so it glides with ease once the pin is out.

By the way and FYI, I paid $250 for the vise. Did I pay way too much? I feel I got my value because of the utility I will get but am interested in the relative value.

I don't think you should EVER pound on a vise!!! Every time I re-read your post it hurts me.


I pay too much for everything, but with shipping, I paid twice that much for mine so I think you stole it. I use mine almost every day, have yet to find a better "daily" bench vise I like better than this one. I have two of these with original pins and both pins are just very slightly loose until the vise is tightened.

 

[NC Rick]

Rbarns, thanks for the insight. I am being a bit dramatic but my pin won’t “ring” in to the tapered set of holes to achieve a movement free fit. My dramatic statement of “hammering it in like a nail” was meant as an illustration of what it might take to make the stationary jaw stay parallel. Never been exposed to such a Vice, I’m reaching out to you guys who know more than I so that I can operate and adjust my Vise in the correct way. I think I could produce a decent replacement pin of what I have is wrong, assuming I keep getting support fron other owners.

 

[rusty65]

Honestly I think a little wiggle is somewhat common on swivel jaw vises. A proper fitting pin definitely makes a huge difference with the wiggle on the jaw though.

I’m definitely becoming more of a reed fan though I just picked up my first vise after moving recently and it’s a Reed 2c vise 4 1/2 jaws 6 3/4in opening 83 pounds. The only thing I’ve done so far is dump a quart of oil all over it.







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[ale]

Just finished.

 

[ale]

Knife anvil

 

[RBarnes]

Rbarns, thanks for the insight. I am being a bit dramatic but my pin won’t “ring” in to the tapered set of holes to achieve a movement free fit. My dramatic statement of “hammering it in like a nail” was meant as an illustration of what it might take to make the stationary jaw stay parallel. Never been exposed to such a Vice, I’m reaching out to you guys who know more than I so that I can operate and adjust my Vise in the correct way. I think I could produce a decent replacement pin of what I have is wrong, assuming I keep getting support fron other owners.

Your pin looks to be a replacement. I would say to put a block of wood or something else evenly square in the vise, tighten it and see if you can pull the pin out? If so, you might want something that fits a little better.

 

[Shiftless]

Rusty:
Your rustproofing technique is interesting. What kind of oil did you squirt all over that vise?
Boiled linseed oil will eventually harden up and darken the iron to make a handsome finish that many of us like to use. Other oils just seem to attract dust and stay gooey.

Ale:
You did a great job on that unusual vise. Or is it an unusual anvil.
That should be very useful as well as an attractive centerpiece of your shop.

Everybody: Just a quick note here for anybody following along on Taskmasters.
I took it apart and wiped off some of the metallic red paint with acetone.
The original color looks to me like an exact match to the favorite Rustoleum color used by many of us on later model Wilton bullets. (Hammered Verde Green) What a coincidence.

Recognize any of the other parts shown here?
.
.

 

[NC Rick]

Thanks again everyone! If any 40x owners could help me out by measuring their pin (length of taper along with largest and smallest diameter of the measured length, I would appreciate it. My lathe has a taper attachment and I could make a couple pins Incase anyone else needed one.

 

[gman007]

Recognize any of the other parts shown here?
.
.

Shift
As I said before Monkey see Monkey do! Please don't tell me it even has a date stamp on the key (can not tell from the photo)

 

[gman007]

Ale
As usual you have created another exceptional master piece! It is both functional and a piece of art at the same time

 

[KMScott]

Thanks again everyone! If any 40x owners could help me out by measuring their pin (length of taper along with largest and smallest diameter of the measured length, I would appreciate it. My lathe has a taper attachment and I could make a couple pins Incase anyone else needed one.

The pin should fit the taper perfectly, I added a couple pic:s of a taper pin that did not align up so I re-machined the taper and will make a new pin. If no one can come up with a dimension then you can figure out what taper it is. Most vise makers stay with 2 or 3 degrees per side. Only Wilton had a goofy taper on their SJ models something like 1.7 degrees per side. I added a drawing with a trig formula to figure out your angle. Sometimes you have to do some math. Good luck.

 

[gman007]

.
Is it normal for the stationary jaw to wiggle with the pin inserted?

By the way and FYI, I paid $250 for the vise. Did I pay way too much? I feel I got my value because of the utility I will get but am interested in the relative value.

I would love to see a photo of an original, perhaps with some dimensions?

Rick

I have a 404 1/2 R which was missing the pin. So I had one made. If I remember correctly the tapper angle was 3 deg. With the the pin completely in, the swivel jaw has absolutely no wiggle.

As for what you paid, well for any given vise what members here have paid varies drastically. While $250 might not be a you a **** deal (at least in my books) it is still pretty darn good one considering that a regular (none swivel jaw) swivel base 4" American vise in good shape specifically a desirable brand like Reed can easily go for that amount on eBay and then there is the considerable shipping costs on top of that. Therefore your 5" inch vise with swivel jaw, swivel base and in good shape is definitely worth quite a bit more than $250 and I believe you did well.

See attached photo of my replacement pin.

 

[va.grouseman]

NC Rick, I agree with KMS, the pin has to be down to the thousandths in fit.---Your pin looks anything but original.---One of the PO probably lost the pin in the shop chaos and that was their quick fix.---Having play/slack in the swivel jaw is what got a lot of the swivel jaws broke and cracked at their base, hence, all the swivel jaws you see welded shut.

That's a nice one and I don't think you paid too much for it.---You can't get good old American iron like that anymore.---And Reed did a super job machining their swivel jaws and the tracks.---Look how tight the jaw is in it's track on yours.---That takes time.---That's quality.

Oh, here's another 405 for sale, just to give you an idea of what they are asking for them.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/nice-vinta...=item3b28c1d704:g:eOEAAOSw6X1cRdV2:rk:51:pf:0

 

[gman007]

Wanted to share this recent find with you all.

Got a line on another one locally too.


Get
10 bucks!! Are you kidding me?! So did you buy it?

PS
Some people absolutely astonish me! I mean how long does it take for anyone who wants to sell something to do a google search and get at least an idea of the value?

PS PS
And then there are sellers that astonish me the other way! These folks seem to be behind on their retirement savings and think that the sale of a single vise should ensure a financially comfortable retirement

https://southbend.craigslist.org/tls/d/warsaw-4-wilton-bullet-vice/6817111159.html

Notwithstanding the fact that the vise is advertised as 4" where in fact it is a 3 1/2" 350N (see enlarged second photo for the model number), the asking price is $300 (for a local sale)!!

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by Gman007.

And then there are sellers that astonish me the other way! These folks seem to be behind on their retirement savings and think that the sale of a single vise should ensure a financially comfortable retirement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


These are the ones Gman, that base all their business deals on ("THERE'S A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE").---And sometimes it works.

 

[NC Rick]

Thank you folks for the kind and informative replies! I read KMS’s conversion to the #2 MT which is a cool idea and perhaps less problematic for me since I don’t have any grinding equipment. I was confident I could make one better than what I saw in the side with it’s rough turning.

I was blown away by how cool the swivel ways are in both accuracy and complexity.

Oddly the pin was much further in the vise before I pulled it than I can make it fit down with gentle persuasion. The mating tapered holes do not look scarred but look cast in as opposed to being machined. This may be an argumant for reaming the hole (after loading the jaws, I learned here).

It seems silly big to bolt to my 1/2” thick steel bench top but I don’t have room for a anchored post (which I would like).

 

[Smitty]

I went to look at this Parker 976 yesterday and to my dismay it had a braze repair on the drawbar. I seem to have a soft spot problem vises so I offered him $80 for it and drove home disappointed. The vise is a beast, it has 6” jaws and weighs in at 164 lbs.
Wanted: Drawbar for late model 976 Parker



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[gman007]

I went to look at this Parker 976 yesterday and to my dismay it had a braze repair on the drawbar. I seem to have a soft spot problem vises so I offered him $80 for it and drove home disappointed. The vise is a beast, it has 6” jaws and weighs in at 164 lbs.
Wanted: Drawbar for late model 976 Parker

Smitty
It is a real pity that the slide has been busted and brazed, specially considering that the rest of the vise seems to be in great shape. I will be honest with you and you probably already know that finding a major part like the dynamic jaw/slide or static jaw housing is not easy but sometimes stars do align and it can happen.

There is a seller on eBay that goes by the handle oldtoolnut59 who usually has a lot of vise parts on sale . He is a great guy and his prices are very fair. It might not hurt to contact him and see if he can help.

Best of luck

PS
BTW is it busted just on one side of the slide or has it been completely severed? Also the braze job looks decent.

 

[NC Rick]

On closer inspection, my pin is a mess, not even close. That’s likely why it came out. The tapered hole in the vise is OK, I was mistaken in that the cast finish I saw was just the top of the body surface.

That Parker is HUGE! I’d have to use it as lawn art. It’s cool though!

 

[Smitty]

Smitty
It is a real pity that the slide has been busted and brazed, specially considering that the rest of the vise seems to be in great shape. I will be honest with you and you probably already know that finding a major part like the dynamic jaw/slide or static jaw housing is not easy but sometimes stars do align and it can happen.

There is a seller on eBay that goes by the handle oldtoolnut59 who usually has a lot of vise parts on sale . He is a great guy and his prices are very fair. It might not hurt to contact him and see if he can help.

Best of luck

PS
BTW is it busted just on one side of the slide or has it been completely severed? Also the braze job looks decent.

It’s brazed on both sides. Like I said it was a long disappointing drive home. The good news is I’m a patient man, I have a laundry list of parts that I check eBay for every day. I could have simply passed on it but then a drawbar would have popped up two weeks later and drove me mad for eternity.

 

[gman007]

It’s brazed on both sides. Like I said it was a long disappointing drive home. The good news is I’m a patient man, I have a laundry list of parts that I check eBay for every day. I could have simply passed on it but then a drawbar would have popped up two weeks later and drove me mad for eternity.

While I understand why you are disappointed, if it's any consolation (even though I know money is not the driver here) and going by the prices that oldtoolnut59 charges (which I think are more than fair), at the very minimum you have a lot more than $80 in parts. Just the collar alone for that size Parker might go for $30-$40, the body/static jaw probably for $70-80. The swivel base is probably worth $60-$70, the main nut $20, main screw $50-$70, jaw inserts $70-$80.

In fact from what I have seen, the sum of the parts of a vise are generally a lot more valuable than the vise as a whole.

So may be either you can help several other people fix their Parkers' with your parts or someone else can help you.

Ps
I just remembered that Drives has a number of busted Parkers and I am wondering if one of them is a 976.

 

[Smitty]

Here’s another old Parker that I paid fifty bucks for a few months back. It has a corner busted off of the slide, the swivel base is missing and the original handle and collar are missing. The vise is a 436 with 6” jaws and weighs 156 lbs. I just couldn’t pass on it and I’m eternally optimistic that I’ll find the parts I need to get her back up and running someday.


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[Smitty]

While I understand why you are disappointed, if it's any consolation (even though I know money is not the driver here) and going by the prices that oldtoolnut59 charges (which I think are more than fair), at the very minimum you have a lot more than $80 in parts. Just the collar alone for that size Parker might go for $30-$40, the body/static jaw probably for $70-80. The swivel base is probably worth $60-$70, the main nut $20, main screw $50-$70, jaw inserts $70-$80.

In fact from what I have seen, the sum of the parts of a vise are generally a lot more valuable than the vise as a whole.

So may be either you can help several other people fix their Parkers' with your parts or someone else can help you.

Yeah, I’ve seen oldtoolnut on eBay and scan his offerings quite often, he has a rather large inventory of parts. Thanks for the encouraging words but I knew what I was getting into. Shift was right when he said it’s the thrill of the hunt, that goes for parts too.

 

[RBarnes]

Rick

As for what you paid, well for any given vise what members here have paid varies drastically. While $250 might not be a you a **** deal (at least in my books) it is still pretty darn good one considering that a regular (none swivel jaw) swivel base 4" American vise in good shape specifically a desirable brand like Reed can easily go for that amount on eBay and then there is the considerable shipping costs on top of that. Therefore your 5" inch vise with swivel jaw, swivel base and in good shape is definitely worth quite a bit more than $250 and I believe you did well.

The funny thing is, after you took the time and gas to drive over, took it all apart and cleaned it, then finally make a new pin for it - chances are you are going to want a little more than $250 for it which is the problem with posting prices on here. Most read and remember the cheap purchase price, but forget about the cost and time of everything else.

 

[LesserSon]

Stopped at a couple shops today. Spotted a few interesting vises.

 

[LesserSon]

And an anvil.
And something like a vise but augmented for forming. I thought the spindle head looked like some Stanley, Craftsman and Dunlap vises.

 

[RBarnes]

NC Rick
Oh, here's another 405 for sale, just to give you an idea of what they are asking for them.

Oh, you left out the best part. Whenever I sell something on ebay, the combined ebay final value fees AND then adding in the pay pal fee commission totals 15% of the sales price (ebay and paypal). Ebay even charges me this final value fee on the shipping cost price???

> I always lose money on shipping since no one wants to pay the actual real shipping cost, plus the ebay final value fee they charge on the shipping charges <

So I end up not getting 15% of what something sells for, but then I also get the "company store" paypal money - which is hard for me to spend.
If anyone on here wants to sell a great vise and take paypal as payment, let me know!!!

So just for fun, figure out your time per hour at minimum wage, add your $250 purchase price and then add 15% to that, then you understand why often times things are priced fairly high on ebay. There are good deals on there, but usually by those that are mathematically challenged. It is quite sobering when you sell something on ebay, and then get your statement at the end of the month.

You learn pretty quick to usually buy a vise either because you want one to use or are collecting them, not because you are going to make money.

 

[trijeff]

Well, I for one started with X amount of seed money, a little "his" fun money. I have flipped vises to get three huge tool boxes, fill em with tools, multiple grinders, drill press, bandsaw, lathe, workmates, a DeWalt battery backpack blower, etc. plus about 30 or so vises (10 of which are flipper status). And today my his fund is more than I started with. Yeah, it takes some looking to get the right flippers at the right price, and yeah if I valued my time restoring in dollars versus the joy I get it might not technically be some huge profit margin, but all I know is I have basically built up my shop from scratch on the backs of these great vises.

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[NC Rick]

I didn’t actually realize it was such a great price. I also didn’t know it was in such good condition nor realize that it wasn’t cool talking prices on here. I won’t do it again. I appreciate the heads up. I wasn’t buying an antique on purpose, I was buying a really good vise so I know the price was cheap for that. I have purchased a brand new 3” Wilton machinists vise because I needed it. I know I could not replace this Reed with anything like it for $1500 if I needed one.

I can see where buying these could be a hobby. The beauty of industrial era items that have not really been touched by technology in the way so many other really awesome mechanical things which I like have. Yea there is collectors value but it is also the best tool for the job, bar none. I’m not bragging on the Reed, any of these well made vises are amaizing tools which have the intrinsic value from that. Like gold when you think about it.

pS. I likely have 8 solid hours in this thing so far... we get over $100 an hour for our shop time so that part makes no sense. That it is also fun, that’s where this goes.

 

[RBarnes]

Well, I for one started with X amount of seed money, a little "his" fun money. I have flipped vises to get three huge tool boxes, fill em with tools, multiple grinders, drill press, bandsaw, lathe, workmates, a DeWalt battery backpack blower, etc. plus about 30 or so vises (10 of which are flipper status). And today my his fund is more than I started with. Yeah, it takes some looking to get the right flippers at the right price, and yeah if I valued my time restoring in dollars versus the joy I get it might not technically be some huge profit margin, but all I know is I have basically built up my shop from scratch on the backs of these great vises.

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That is great, if you did this selling on ebay, you must have either done it before they raised all the commission fees or you are buying them right. In this area, I have not been able to buy anything reasonable enough to ever make any real money. Having said that, in all fairness, I have never sold one for less than the purchase price I paid for it. I tend to just buy them and then them sell when I upgrade to a better one. Besides, it makes the wife happy that I am "making money" selling some for more than my purchase price. I agree that the joy from doing this is much more important and it is not about making money for me. Just responding to the post implying the prices on ebay are crazy.

 

[RBarnes]

I didn’t actually realize it was such a great price. I also didn’t know it was in such good condition nor realize that it wasn’t cool talking prices on here. I won’t do it again. I appreciate the heads up. I wasn’t buying an antique on purpose, I was buying a really good vise so I know the price was cheap for that. I have purchased a brand new 3” Wilton machinists vise because I needed it. I know I could not replace this Reed with anything like it for $1500 if I needed one.

I can see where buying these could be a hobby. The beauty of industrial era items that have not really been touched by technology in the way so many other really awesome mechanical things which I like have. Yea there is collectors value but it is also the best tool for the job, bar none. I’m not bragging on the Reed, any of these well made vises are amaizing tools which have the intrinsic value from that. Like gold when you think about it.

pS. I likely have 8 solid hours in this thing so far... we get over $100 an hour for our shop time so that part makes no sense. That it is also fun, that’s where this goes.

I haven't been on here long enough to make any rules and did not mean to imply that. I do get frustrated whenever I try to sell a vise and people tell me the cheap purchase price they remember seeing on here. I do believe you are correct realizing these vintage vises are a great deal compared to the prices of new ones. Vintage vises are quite addicting and a lot of fun, one of the more healthy vices I have ever had.

 

[va.grouseman]

Any one restoring an A.S..---Slap one of these on the side and the value goes up exponentially.---



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-American-Scale-Vise-Company-Decal-For-Vise-Restoration/113287520795

 

[Asport]

Rock Island?

 

[trijeff]

Yeah, looks like a RI 597, might be missing the front jaw. But boy, that's quite the stand!

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[Asport]

Supposedly an 8" vise. Maybe a 67? Good eye on the front jaw!

 

[drivesitfar]

Asport: looks bigger than my 6 inch Rock Island vises so you are probably right about it being an 8 incher. if it's a decent price I'd grab it cause it looks pretty clean and you can probably get a jaw or pair of jaws made for it. that said check to see why the jaw is missing is it just missing the jaw and screws or is there damage there. the big slide looks pretty good.

the handle looks like it's original, but it would look better on the one end with a round ball attached like it had instead of the nut on it which isn't too hard of a fix.

VA: no offense, but I wouldn't put a sticker like that on one of my American Scale vises. maybe a brass badge. so you say the price goes up more than the $15 investment?

 

[trijeff]

Yep, agreed, that is most likely a RI 67 ... wow!

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[va.grouseman]

Drive, absolutely agree.---Neither would I.---Only used to see what kind of rises I could get all the fellows.---In reality, the characters would have/should have been

 

[meatsis]

Rock Island?

I saw that one too. If I was closer I’d be all over it!

 

[Asport]

It's close for me but almost too much to deal with. The stand comes with it but I have no room for anything that size. I doubt it goes for cheap.