Storing race fuel in garage

[sinister94]

I'm looking at converting my hellcat to run E85 soon. One problem is that the nearest gas station that sells E85 is a good 15 miles one way. It's a busy part of town so that 30 mile round trip is a 1+ hour ordeal due to traffic.

I'm thinking about getting a 55 gallon drum and filling that up and storing it in my garage.

I've researched it the last few days and a few things I've picked up on ---

- Keeping the drum sealed as tight as possible to prevent moisture/condensation in the drum/fuel

- Keeping the drum off the concrete to prevent the same as above

- Grounding the drum to prevent a static charge


I live in Phoenix, AZ and my garage can get into the 100's. Humidity/moisture is generally not a concern. It is also an attached garage, so this needs to be as safe as possible.

If there is any doubt towards safety then I will absolutely not do this.

Comments/Suggestions/Concerns?

Thanks

 

[logical]

The issue (among many) comes when it's only partially full of liquid which makes it partially full of vapor. Then it's just a big old bomb. It can be done safely with a properly vented and purpose built tank.

I have a gas hanging heater in my garage so it's not something I'd even considered. Regardless, don't listen to me scaring you are all the Gomers who will come here and tell you grandpa stored it in a buttler churn next to his crate of dynamite and didn't die. Do some good old fashion googling with "safely" somewhere in the search terms and find the right way.

 

[dadsEH]

Goodluck with your insurance claim when the garage goes into low earth orbit.

 

[sberry]

Its why he has insurance. ha

 

[sinister94]

The issue (among many) comes when it's only partially full of liquid which makes it partially full of vapor. Then it's just a big old bomb. It can be done safely with a properly vented and purpose built tank.

I have a gas hanging heater in my garage so it's not something I'd even considered. Regardless, don't listen to me scaring you are all the Gomers who will come here and tell you grandpa stored it in a buttler churn next to his crate of dynamite and didn't die. Do some good old fashion googling with "safely" somewhere in the search terms and find the right way.

So say I get a few 10 gallon HDPE containers. They will either be 100% full, or emtpy. Every time I open one of the 10 gallons they will be emptied and 100% poured into the vehicle, no residual will be left in the container until it's filled again.

Is it really that much more dangerous to have a single 55gallon vs several 10gallon containers?

All of this doubt makes me think it's not worth it and I should just enjoy driving the car to the gas station..

 

[PCustoms]

Isn't E85 normal pump gas?

 

[L5wolvesf]

Isn't E85 normal pump gas?

My question too - unless Sunoco or whomever is making it for Showroon SCCA cars.

Can you store it in a corner of the yard away from any buildings?

 

[sinister94]

Isn't E85 normal pump gas?

It's used for flex fuel vehicles, but it's highly popular with the forced induction crowd. It has an octane rating of about 109 and burns a bit cooler - allowing the supercharged/turbo vehicles to run a lot more boost without the worry of detonation.

Maybe labeling it race fuel was misleading. And I wish it was as common as typical pump gas around here

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Why? The Hellcat only requires 91 octane. You won't gain anything by doing so and if the car is not designated as a flex fuel vehicle, it's illegal...

Tommy

 

[Cobra5150]

Are there any DOT regulations regarding transporting 55 gallons of hazardous material?

 

[TTMotorsports]

Why? The Hellcat only requires 91 octane. You won't gain anything by doing so and if the car is not designated as a flex fuel vehicle, it's illegal...

Tommy

It's much higher octane. Changing injectors and pump you can tune the car for higher boost and much more power.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Are there any DOT regulations regarding transporting 55 gallons of hazardous material?

IIRC, you cannot carry fuel conatiners of more than 5 gallons, with a max of 440 pounds, without the proper DOT papers and placards.

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

It's much higher octane. Changing injectors and pump you can tune the car for higher boost and much more power.

I'm aware of that. The OP didn't say he was doing any of that, just converting to use E85, and it's still illegal. You cannot intentionally misfuel a non FFV vehicle.

Tommy

 

[PCustoms]

Maybe labeling it race fuel was misleading. And I wish it was as common as typical pump gas around here

Yeah a bit. Seems like it was pretty common around here, and avoided by most.

Doesn't the he'll cat come with the optional race kit, along with 5 gallons of actual race gas? Or I may be thinking demon.

 

[TheLurker]

...Comments/Suggestions/Concerns?

- Transportation and storage laws would be my two largest concerns. If you're in a subdivision of any kind, there are probably limits to what you can store (I'd guess 55gal is probably above that limit).

- Depending on how much I was actually using, I'd probably use 4-5 5 gallon gas cans rather than a 55 gallon drum. Assuming the car has a 20gal tank, you'd be stuck storing about a half-full drum for a while (lots of vapor space which is the safety hazard here.


Try the gasbuddy website or app and see if you can find a hidden E85 seller you just don't know about in your area too. Might be one in a different direction that doesn't require driving through traffic. Or go at night/early morning and miss traffic?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Yeah a bit. Seems like it was pretty common around here, and avoided by most.

Doesn't the he'll cat come with the optional race kit, along with 5 gallons of actual race gas? Or I may be thinking demon.

The Demon has a "race gas" tuning mode that runs more timing and boost on 100 octane, but it still won't make a difference to run E85 in a non FFV car. A gasoline fuel system most likely won't be able to deliver enough volume on ethanol to run rich enough.

Tommy

 

[driftpin]

Look at NFPA 30 and NFPA 30A

Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code

Code for Motor Fuel Dispensing Facilities and Repair Garages

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...ds/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=30

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...s/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=30A

Stop-by your local fire marshal's office if you have a question after looking here.

 

[sinister94]

The Demon has a "race gas" tuning mode that runs more timing and boost on 100 octane, but it still won't make a difference to run E85 in a non FFV car. A gasoline fuel system most likely won't be able to deliver enough volume on ethanol to run rich enough.

Tommy

I left out the hellraiser upper pulley, 10% lower pulley, Injected Engineering triple "gasohol" fuel pump system, and Injector Dynamics 1300# injectors because it's pretty much implied when converting a car like the hellcat to E85 you intend to run more boost.

Not running E85 for the sake of it sir. The $4k I spent just on the fuel pumps and injectors should be enough proof I am most definitely aware that E85 has less energy than 91 gasoline and ethanol requires approximately 30-50% more fuel delivery.

So it seems my solution will be to store a VP 5 gallon jug of E85 as backup in my garage, and the hellcat will be for off highway use only while being "UN"intentionally filled with flex fuel by my wife that doesn't know any better.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Whether it's legal or illegal, people are doing it all the time with barrels of race gas or alcohol. Probably way more than the average person thinks or knows about.


The only thing I'm going to tell you to do is use some common sense when storing/moving it.

 

[sinister94]

The Demon has a "race gas" tuning mode that runs more timing and boost on 100 octane, but it still won't make a difference to run E85 in a non FFV car. A gasoline fuel system most likely won't be able to deliver enough volume on ethanol to run rich enough.

Tommy

Sorry my last post was pretty ****-ish.

Been a long day. But the vehicle is indeed prepared to run ethanol regarding the fuel system. I know ya'll are mentioning laws and such, in which I asked for comments/suggestions/concerns and I didn't like some of the answers and lashed out.

But as I stated safety is the number 1 priority so I don't think I'll be storing a 55gallon drum of ethanol, nor will I be trying to transport it.

I'll just grab a few 5 gallon containers and have it for backup (since the hellcat will be going from 16mpg to 9 or 10mpg).

I'm hoping she hits 900rwhp when she gets tuned in a few weeks..

 

[rayra]

...Is it really that much more dangerous to have a single 55gallon vs several 10gallon containers?..

Yeah, it's called a BLEVE. But that's a low probability. Better to have a bunch of smaller containers. Besides which, how are you going to be filling / re-filling this 55gal drum, you going to be wrestling that 400# container?

You should probably do something like this.

Or just get gas sometime other than rush hours.

IIRC National Fire Code and probably your local regs limit residential storage of fuel to 50 gallons in portable containers. Oddly enough it doesn't say inside or outside or away from structures.

 

[txvwnut]

IIRC, you cannot carry fuel conatiners of more than 5 gallons, with a max of 440 pounds, without the proper DOT papers and placards.

Tommy

I’ve never heard of this, least not in Texas as I always bought my race gas in 55 gallon drums. Well right up till I got my fuel sponsor then it was just a trip to fill the cans that went in the trailer.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I left out the hellraiser upper pulley, 10% lower pulley, Injected Engineering triple "gasohol" fuel pump system, and Injector Dynamics 1300# injectors because it's pretty much implied when converting a car like the hellcat to E85 you intend to run more boost.

Not running E85 for the sake of it sir. The $4k I spent just on the fuel pumps and injectors should be enough proof I am most definitely aware that E85 has less energy than 91 gasoline and ethanol requires approximately 30-50% more fuel delivery.

So it seems my solution will be to store a VP 5 gallon jug of E85 as backup in my garage, and the hellcat will be for off highway use only while being "UN"intentionally filled with flex fuel by my wife that doesn't know any better.

Sounds like a good plan!

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Sorry my last post was pretty ****-ish.

It didn't come across that way to me.

Tommy

 

[Lonnies Performance]

You can transport in 5 gal cans & will like getting the fuel back out of 5 gal cans much better than wrestling a 55gal drum.

I typically get my fuel in 16 gal drums. They are a pain to carry, but manageable none the less. It still ***** getting the fuel from the drum into the car, unless you have a pump.... I used to get a long hose & hold the drum on my shoulder, but I'm not 25 any more.

E85 is great for forced induction vehicles.

Whatever cans you use, be sure to seal them tight & do not store longer than necessary.

 

[La Petite Tools]

You can transport hazmat up to 1000lbs with no placards or endorsements. there are a few classes of hazmat that require placards of any amount but gasoline isn't one of them.

 

[D.J.]

No sir not all HazMat is included in that check your rules thru your local fire department. In response to La Petite Tools above post.

 

[bad_idea]

Please don't store large quantities of gasoline in an attached garage. In one large container or in several small containers.

I recommend several smaller containers hauled down to the gas station in the bed of an open truck. Then store them in a shed away from the house. The smaller sealed containers will be better for life of the fuel too. Opening and closing the large container will allow more humidity into the container.

 

[protegeV]

Why? The Hellcat only requires 91 octane. You won't gain anything by doing so and if the car is not designated as a flex fuel vehicle, it's illegal...

Tommy

Really? We're going there with the illegal bit?
Tou know how many tens of thousands of cars are tuned to run on e85?

 

[La Petite Tools]

No sir not all HazMat is included in that check your rules thru your local fire department. In response to La Petite Tools above post.

Correct according to DOT regulations there are some that are placard any quantity but mainly explosives (class 1) poison gas (class 2.3) explosive when wet (class 4.3) and radioactive (class 7) those are all that i can remember off the top of my head.

Not sure about any local ordinances that would change that but it is possible.

 

[sinister94]

Please don't store large quantities of gasoline in an attached garage. In one large container or in several small containers.

I recommend several smaller containers hauled down to the gas station in the bed of an open truck. Then store them in a shed away from the house. The smaller sealed containers will be better for life of the fuel too. Opening and closing the large container will allow more humidity into the container.

Being outside, won't the fuel be at higher risk of condensation with big temp swings? Also, living in Phoenix and storing fuel outside -it's possible the Temps of the containers being in in an outdoor shed could be 140 degrees plus in summer. I imagine that poses dangers?

 

[mjchamp]

You can buy a 55 gal. drum of it, (or E90 if you want to be really cool). Then just use a transfer pump to fill the car. Once done filling put the threaded fill port back on the drum and you are done. It is no different having a half full drum of fuel in a 55 gal drum as it is having a 1/2 full gas tank.

 

[like2wheel]

I'm aware of that. The OP didn't say he was doing any of that, just converting to use E85, and it's still illegal. You cannot intentionally misfuel a non FFV vehicle.

Tommy

Yes.
Hotrodding is devil work.




.

 

[gordo9742000]

Is it any different than storing a drum of regular fuel in your garage?

 

[bad_idea]

Being outside, won't the fuel be at higher risk of condensation with big temp swings? Also, living in Phoenix and storing fuel outside -it's possible the Temps of the containers being in in an outdoor shed could be 140 degrees plus in summer. I imagine that poses dangers?

You make valid points. My point is the risk is better taken away from the structure your family sleeps in.

 

[CraigStu]

My concern would be how long will it take to use the 55 gal. We all know how ethanol ***** up moisture so that would be the main problem. One thought I had was just buy four 5 gal gas cans. Fill the car and the cans at the same time. Now you have cut gas runs by 50%. Or buy however many will fit in the trunk. Maybe you can get 6 or 7 in there.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Boaters use fuel carts/caddies. They hold 15-25 gallons and have two wheels so they can be rolled to the boat. They have a hose and nozzle, some have battery powered pumps others gravity feed (cart must be higher than the boat).

 

[mike93lx]

I keep all gas, except what is in the tanks of my cars, in my shed and out of the attached garage.

I would never store that much fuel in a building my family inhabits.

 

[Falcon67]

I've got a drum of methanol and/or a drum of 110 race fuel plus maybe 10~15 gallons of pump fuel in the shop at any particular time. Methanol storage isn't a problem as long as you close the drum or jugs up tight. I've had 10 gallons in jugs in the shop over winter, should be fine. Maybe instead of a big "55 gallon" unit look for a pony drum, usually 35 gallons or so. Check around for a local VP or Sonoco dealer. Personally, if I was going to boost a modern expensive vehicle like a Hellcat, I'd not use pump "E85". I'd buy good fuel from a dealer so you always know the consistency.

 

[nes999]

Is it any more dangerous than the transfer tanks they sell at just about every farm store? I couldnt imagine not having my transfer tank.

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