New Build - Outlets along wall - alternate circuits?

[thoyer]

New build garage. Multiple quad outlets on each wall. Should I use one breaker for all of the outlets on one wall and another breaker for all of the outlets on the other wall or should I alternate circuits between boxes along the wall?

I'm leaning towards the alternating method, more wire though....

36' long walls, 6 quad boxes on each wall, 20 amp circuits.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[RegeSullivan]

Doesn't matter how you do it. At some point in the future you will wish you did it the other way. I put outlets every 4' to 6' alternating the circuit every other box and that works for me. I think what is most important to consider in a new build is flexibility for an unforeseen additions. Like the need for a dedicated 20A or 240v for a compressor, dust collocter or some new machine that you just can't see in your future at the moment.

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[ddawg16]

New build garage. Multiple quad outlets on each wall. Should I use one breaker for all of the outlets on one wall and another breaker for all of the outlets on the other wall or should I alternate circuits between boxes along the wall?

I'm leaning towards the alternating method, more wire though....

36' long walls, 6 quad boxes on each wall, 20 amp circuits.

Thanks,
Tom

Wire is cheap in comparison. But it means you can run two high devices at once.....say a heater and a saw. That is how I did mine.

Also.....make sure you put them at least 54" high from the floor.....that way you can lean a 4x8 sheet against the wall and not block them

 

[ddawg16]

Oh....and make sure you take photos of all the walls before you put up the drywall....and don't forget nail plates....just in case you run a large lag screw into the wall....don't want to screw into wire.

 

[thoyer]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going with the alternating circuits and wiring all outlets for 20a.

Tom

 

[sberry]

Considering that its got to be gfci I might go for 1 down each wall. Turn a corner and on a different one. Don't need 2 ever where all the time. I am doing a building now where I am going to gang some stuff together to reduce the number of gfci.

 

[larry_g]

If you know where your workbench is going then consider running a low box there so that you can later wire in outlets on the front of your bench. You can thank me later.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rburke65]

I have multiple quad outlets and I probably used ....5..6 circuits for receptacles. Typically I used 2 circuits on one wall and 2 circuits for each quad. I am....I assume you are....a one man shop. I don’t have 9 items running at once.

 

[Marctrees]

I like and did the idea of odd and even on two seperate ckts.

So, forever I will automatically know . if I should ever have two simultaneous high current loads... That I can plug them in ANYWHERE into ANY adjacent outlets and they will be on separate ckts.

I went every 10' on perimeter wall.. figuring I will always be using a 25' ext cord anyway.. saw NO need to put them 5' part like some.

Works for me.

Marc

 

[ddawg16]

If you have an outlet that never gets used.....it's not hurting anything.

There are obvious places you don't need to put them. For example, I have a section of wall where I store wood. I have about 5 sets of racks for storing various lengths and types. No outlets there. But I have a quad at each end of it. They get used all the time.

I have 2 sets of outlets on each work bench......and one outlet on either side of the garage door.

I have one in the ceiling for the garage door opener.

I have one high on the wall next to the man door just for the water sprinkler controller.

 

[Jim greengo]

I'd do a circuit for each wall.

 

[theoldwizard1]

New build garage. Multiple quad outlets on each wall. Should I use one breaker for all of the outlets on one wall and another breaker for all of the outlets on the other wall or should I alternate circuits between boxes along the wall?

Perfect case for a multi wire branch circuit. Just use 12/3 instead of 12/2.

If each box is going to have 2 duplex outlets, I would wire one outlet on one circuit and the other on the opposite circuit. More work, but you would have up to 40A available at any one location !

 

[PhantomEB]

I did alternating as well 2 circuits per wall. I don’t regret it one bit as I don’t think I ever have had to walk to the breaker during a job.

 

[CJseven]

Perfect case for a multi wire branch circuit. Just use 12/3 instead of 12/2.



If each box is going to have 2 duplex outlets, I would wire one outlet on one circuit and the other on the opposite circuit. More work, but you would have up to 40A available at any one location !

Humm I still have about 6 or so quads to wire up, may just go this route.

 

[Ray-CA]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going with the alternating circuits and wiring all outlets for 20a.

Tom

I would also recommend that you use different colored outlets for each circuit. Makes it a lot easier to keep the wiring straight and make a good visual aid in plugging in your equipment.

Ray

PS: I wish I had remembered to do this......

 

[sberry]

I can count on one hand the last 25 years I had to run another cord to a spot for more power. and to tell the truth is wasn't any harder, it would have needed cord anyway, it just came from another outlet a few ft farther away.
Probably didn't need to do it then, just a fussy **** cause I could. I put several big lights on one once and it tripped due to thermal but it was kind of a test to see if it would run them,,, since have went to some led which makes about all of it moot.
Doesn't mean I still don't over wire once in a while,,,, just that in reality its an exercise in finding out I didn't need it.

 

[sberry]

Perfect case for a multi wire branch circuit. Just use 12/3 instead of 12/2.

If each box is going to have 2 duplex outlets, I would wire one outlet on one circuit and the other on the opposite circuit. More work, but you would have up to 40A available at any one location !

There is a place for multi wire and I do use them on occasion. I added a couple to a counter top a while back, at first there was a temptation to do it then I realize it wasn't going to save any wire, gonna take another jbox and confuse a homebody type someday down the line.
Did it to one of my own, it was a difficult run, it was 70 ft and in a place where there was actually some likelihood there would be occasions it would be used at the same time.
Did it on another not too long ago, had the customer buy a whole roll, was going in a place they had a problem prior, was easy, needed to reduce the number of current carry conductors due to routing.
But,,, I don't do it every chance I get, often use a little more wire just to keep it simple for the future especially where maintenance is by handyman or diy types.
I was at another on a trouble call, it was confusing at best with wire on different size breakers, a gob of tandems, congested box, multi wires etc, it had it all. Took me a few minutes to figure all the tricks the guy used. In the end it was all legal and proper over current for the end of the circuits but it gave the maintenance guys a rash from scratching their heads.

 

[thoyer]

Considering that its got to be gfci I might go for 1 down each wall. Turn a corner and on a different one. Don't need 2 ever where all the time. I am doing a building now where I am going to gang some stuff together to reduce the number of gfci.

I'll just install a GFCI breaker for each circuits so two breakers cover all of the wall outlets.

Tom

 

[thoyer]

I would also recommend that you use different colored outlets for each circuit. Makes it a lot easier to keep the wiring straight and make a good visual aid in plugging in your equipment.

Ray

PS: I wish I had remembered to do this......

Good suggestion, thank you...... Typically I label each box with the breaker number but I kind of like this better.

Tom

 

[thoyer]

Perfect case for a multi wire branch circuit. Just use 12/3 instead of 12/2.

If each box is going to have 2 duplex outlets, I would wire one outlet on one circuit and the other on the opposite circuit. More work, but you would have up to 40A available at any one location !

interesting.........

 

[slow]

Isn't a 2 pole GFCi significantly more expensive than a pair of GFCI outlets?

 

[alfredeneuman]

Yes VERY significantly
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-Qwik-Gard-20-Amp-2-Pole-GFCI-Breaker-QO220GFICP/100194077

 

[slow]

That's why I don't like MWBC circuits for a situation like this.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I'm not an electrician so my rule of thumb is when in doubt, go bigger (exceed code).

Figure out what you need for required stuff and then go from there. As others have said, wire is cheap. I did all the required stuff and then on top of that I did one 20A 120V circuit mounted horizontally along the walls at 45", I believe every six feet (or so). In same stud cavity as each of the 20A 120V receptacles is a 208V duplex. (6-20r) I did the same across the ceiling of the garage, one 20A circuit with duplex receptacles every few rafter ties and one 12/4 208Y twist-lock circuit every few rafter ties. It gives me options. At any point I have access to two or three different circuits for any given type of electricity I need: 120V, 208V or Wye.

Over/at the bench I did three 120V 20A circuits: TV/computer/speakers and one at each end. In addition to all that I've got home runs for each welder, the compressor and dust collector.

I think in hindsight I would have run more 12/4 and probably should have run more 10/4 also. Oh well.

Yes, as Ray-CA said, make the receptacles different colors.

 

[machsnell]

I put color circle on my outlets for each of the 4 circuits. Its helps.

I alternated and I wouldnt want it any other way.

I wish I had put some conduit and flush mount outlets in the floor

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[Marctrees]

How do you use 12/3 w common neutral when these will be FEED THROUGH GFI protected ?



Marc

 

[Montyx5]

Also be careful when wiring a mwbc. Be careful that the neutral connections are properly secured. If the neutral path is broken you will have a 240v circuit instead of 120v under certain conditions.

 

[ard]

I have multiple quads all around the shop. Each box (dual duplexes) has two circuits in it.

EMT makes it easy to toss in another pair of thhn...(Although a bit more work to run in the framing before Sheetrock.)

 

[xyster101]

+1 for alternate.

Not going to need that much power? I disagree.

I have a table saw (13 amp) and a wet dry vac (10 amp) to **** the dust from it. Right there that over loads the circuit. I can plug both in the same wall without having extension cords going to opposite walls of the shop creating a tripping hazard.

I ran two 12/2 wires down each wall, put quad outlets every 5 ft at 56 inches off the floor. A total of 32 outlets on 4 circuits in a 1200 sqft shop.
Plan more outlets where the workbench is going to go.

 

[jmiller_2308]

If you run circuits high on the wall don't forget to run at least one low for any under bench necessities like a refrigerator.

I didn't run enough 220 so I need to use a long extension cord to get to the one that outlet I did wire. Kind of a monster pain but at the moment I don't use the welder all that often.

I dislike using extension cords so I put boxes every 4 feet all around the garage including over benches that are next to the wall and this has worked really well for me. I also added mult-outlet extension cords to permanently placed equipment like my lift and ran them up and over to a wall outlet. This puts convenient power at the equipment without having to string extension cords in my way. I wish I would have had some circuits in the ceiling for these so that I didn't have to come up, over, and down the wall to plug them in. Bad news is that 20 amp extensions with multiple outlets tend to be a bit pricey; could just wire up a box instead of buying one though.

Make sure to think about adding outlets that go through the wall to the outside. I have a poured area off the back of the garage that I love to use when working outside and being wired means no extension cords - YAY! I also use outlets near the garage door but since my shop is heated/cooled all year I prefer to work with those doors closed.

Think about any decorations you may want to have. I have a neon light and some fans that are high on the wall that require me to run cords down to the outlets on the wall. This is both ugly as well as uses up a plug that could otherwise be used for work.

Speaking of lighting, I really love that I zoned my lighting and can light different areas depending upon where I'm working. I also like to have some "mood" lighting. I use this mostly to illuminate the garage when I'm just walking through or even if I'm just sitting and working in one area. A couple of LED strip lights can do wonders to remove a cave like setting.

 

[thoyer]

Perfect case for a multi wire branch circuit. Just use 12/3 instead of 12/2.

If each box is going to have 2 duplex outlets, I would wire one outlet on one circuit and the other on the opposite circuit. More work, but you would have up to 40A available at any one location !

Got to thinking about this approach. Each conductor in 12/3 is rated for 20 amps.

Assume outlet number 1 is fed by the black wire, outlet number 2 is fed by the red wire and the white neutral wire is common to both outlets. If you have a 20 amp load connected to each outlet then the common neutral wire is carrying 40 amps which the cable is not rated for.

I think I'll stick with alternating circuits protected by a single pole GFCI breaker. Yes, the single pole breakers are a bit more expensive then using a GFCI outlet and feeding all of the downstream outlets from it, but for this application I prefer this method. If I didn't have access to the panel (like in a house kitchen or bathroom) I'd go with the outlets for ease of resetting.

 

[thoyer]

If you run circuits high on the wall don't forget to run at least one low for any under bench necessities like a refrigerator.

I didn't run enough 220 so I need to use a long extension cord to get to the one that outlet I did wire. Kind of a monster pain but at the moment I don't use the welder all that often.

I dislike using extension cords so I put boxes every 4 feet all around the garage including over benches that are next to the wall and this has worked really well for me. I also added mult-outlet extension cords to permanently placed equipment like my lift and ran them up and over to a wall outlet. This puts convenient power at the equipment without having to string extension cords in my way. I wish I would have had some circuits in the ceiling for these so that I didn't have to come up, over, and down the wall to plug them in. Bad news is that 20 amp extensions with multiple outlets tend to be a bit pricey; could just wire up a box instead of buying one though.

Make sure to think about adding outlets that go through the wall to the outside. I have a poured area off the back of the garage that I love to use when working outside and being wired means no extension cords - YAY! I also use outlets near the garage door but since my shop is heated/cooled all year I prefer to work with those doors closed.

Think about any decorations you may want to have. I have a neon light and some fans that are high on the wall that require me to run cords down to the outlets on the wall. This is both ugly as well as uses up a plug that could otherwise be used for work.

Speaking of lighting, I really love that I zoned my lighting and can light different areas depending upon where I'm working. I also like to have some "mood" lighting. I use this mostly to illuminate the garage when I'm just walking through or even if I'm just sitting and working in one area. A couple of LED strip lights can do wonders to remove a cave like setting.

Great minds.......

I was working on the electrical layout last night and included two lighting zones and a couple outdoor outlets. I should have enough 220v outlets to cover future expansion.

BUT I didn't consider the higher up on the wall outlets - good point. I'll have to design a few of those in.

Tom

 

[burleyfarm]

This is a great topic. Lots of good ideas to consider as I design my electrical plans. Keep the ideas and suggestions coming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slow]

If you using a MWBC, you need to use a 2 pole breaker.

If the red and black wire in your example is on alternate legs of the panel (which they need to be) , the 20 amp will cancel each other out and have 0 amps on the neutral wire. This is why you need a 2 pole GFCI, as the way GFCI works is the current is monitored on both sides and small leakage will trip the breaker.

 

[Movover]

Got to thinking about this approach. Each conductor in 12/3 is rated for 20 amps.

Assume outlet number 1 is fed by the black wire, outlet number 2 is fed by the red wire and the white neutral wire is common to both outlets. If you have a 20 amp load connected to each outlet then the common neutral wire is carrying 40 amps which the cable is not rated for.

Not true, if you are feeding them from different buses (phases) of the panel.

 

[maxpat82]

28' x 44' long :
-on the 44' wall: I have 4 on 1 wall (2 circuit alternating) and 5 on the other(2 circuit alternating and the 5th sharing another on the front wall.
-the rear wall as it's own (near the pannel)
-and 2 ceiling (each their circuit) for reel.

all 20A.
+ one 240v 50A on each front/rear wall.

so far it's way enough.....but I'm just starting using it.

 

[thoyer]

If you using a MWBC, you need to use a 2 pole breaker.

If the red and black wire in your example is on alternate legs of the panel (which they need to be) , the 20 amp will cancel each other out and have 0 amps on the neutral wire. This is why you need a 2 pole GFCI, as the way GFCI works is the current is monitored on both sides and small leakage will trip the breaker.

Makes sense - thanks!

 

[Marctrees]

I may be wrong.. but I am pretty sure a 2 pole GFI breaker will NOT run 120v recepts.

Well, I dunno ..maybe.. but certainly NOT a mwbc anyway.

I have not seen one in years.. do not recall.

Anyway, NO GFI will work if it does not have it's own dedicated neutral

So, you can go from your panel w a 12/3 and feed two gfis... BUT you cannot CONTINUE down the wall to more downstream "Load" recepts w a 12/3.

Running romex, you would have to run two 12/2's and NOT tie the downstream neutrals together.

Marc

 

[alfredeneuman]

I may be wrong.. but I am pretty sure a 2 pole GFI breaker will NOT run 120v recepts.

Well, I dunno ..maybe.. but certainly NOT a mwbc anyway.
So, you can go from your panel w a 12/3 and feed two gfis... BUT you cannot CONTINUE down the wall to more downstream "Load" recepts w a 12/3.


Marc

A 2pole GFI will protect any outlets on the run, whether it be 120 or 240.

 

[Marctrees]

OK but usually we now use GFCI recepts for economy rather than breakers...

So am I correct what I am saying that sure he can run a 12/3 to the first 1900 w two GFCI recepts... but the he CANNOT continue down the wall w a 12/3?

Correct?

Marc