Custom Electrical Prints?

[bad_idea]

I am in process of building my 30x40x12 detached garage in my yard. I paid a designer to draw a set of plans for the building. It covered all of the pertinent details for framing and sheathing my building - anchor bolt spacing and size, nailing patterns, material size for studs and sheathing, header material and assembly, etc. I work from blueprints on a daily basis on Navy ships and can build just about anything with a set of prints.

Is there a service out there that will provide a set of plans that spec out all of the needed materials to install a 100 amp sub panel fed from the main panel on the side of my house? All of the codes specific to my install in the general notes (cable clamp requirements, GFCI requirements, etc). A couple wiring diagrams to show the routing of cable for each circuit.

 

[Jim greengo]

That kind of stuff is normally designed on the fly.

 

[bad_idea]

That kills me. I am accustomed to every detail is spec'd out by an engineer in a print. No design is left to the tradesman. I think there is a market for the DIY types. I think an engineer or master electrician could sketch up a set of electrical plans for a few hundred dollars and many DIY types would be happy to pay it. I would anyways.

 

[Bert_]

This is simple stuff. A quick search here will help you a lot. Otherwise let us know what you plan to have in the shop and we can give you some pointers.

Side note, I couldn't stand working if every job I did was completely designed and spec'd out by someone else. I love doing the design and the construction.

 

[sberry]

Reason being is that common plumbing and electric for residential is installed to code which essentially follows engineering. There are also all sorts of changes. Same for general building. A rudimentary sketch is all an experienced builder may need on a typical modest home.
An example with wiring, on a spec built house, a modular or mobile if we know the year it was built know how it's wired. Once it's covered with drywall most of it is irrelevent.
Where it's a mystery is rework where general practice was not followed.

 

[mike93lx]

You can fix that problem with money, which is why you are used it it in the navy...

Residential electrical is not that complicated. Honestly, if you aren't familiar enough to design it yourself, you should probably hire out the work. Even professionally designed plans won't capture all aspects of code that you need to follow.

 

[CJ7VFR]

If you want someone to draw up some sketches that are strictly to code, then your garage would only have one receptacle for each space where a vehicle would be parked, plus one light centrally located in the ceiling. That is the normal basic requirements for most garages.

If you want more than that you will have to be part of the design process. And if you are the one telling the designer where you want to put receptacles for doing actual work, plus where you want task lighting over a work bench, if you are going to put up garage door openers, and where you want everything else, you might as well draw up a simple sketch on some paper because they won't know what ideas are in your head!

And if you're already going that far, you might as well just do the basic design yourself. It does not have to be complicated or have every single wire size and wire run. Just something basic that shows what you want, and approximately where you want it.

The thing with every garage is that your plans change and evolve over time, and the spot where you thought you wanted your workbench moves because you want a bigger one, or where you thought it should be is in the way of parking a longer vehicle, or you find out you need more light/task lighting in a certain area because you can't see what you are doing.

I am all for having a pro design something up if you can't do it yourself. But the only person who knows what you want is you. So why not have some fun and design up what you want.

Then, when you have that, contact a few electricians and get some quotes for what you want done. They will look over your plan, go over what you need/want, and guide you along the way to having exactly what you want where you want and need it, as well as telling you the costs of everything.

Jim

 

[OneOfEm]

It covered all of the pertinent details for framing and sheathing my building - anchor bolt spacing and size, nailing patterns, material size for studs and sheathing, header material and assembly, etc.

NOTHING in my engineer-drawn-and-stamped plans was that detailed. I've had to figure out just about everything as I go.

Electrical is easy compared to the rest.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I think an engineer or master electrician could sketch up a set of electrical plans for a few hundred dollars and many DIY types would be happy to pay it.

Master Electricians and Electrical Contractors are allowed to only produce plans if they or their employees are going to do the work.

A PE can produce plans and put his stamp on it for anyone. They cost more $ though.

 

[Ilikeike]

I'm sure an electrical engineering firm would draw you some plans. I have a set for the new motor control center we installed a few years back,very detailed.

I don't think I would want to pay the invoice for a set of engineered electrical plans for a garage though.

 

[Norcal]

If the OP wants to spend the money for detailed plans, it is their money. Most here would agree that it is wasted money though.

 

[APEowner]

Every commercial construction project I've been involved in had all the electrical detailed including a BOM. There's a spec. book that goes along with the plans.

Yes, it costs more upfront but I've never had a disagreement with a builder or the trades that wasn't quickly resolved with a quick look at the plans, spec book or contract.

 

[Jim greengo]

This is simple stuff. A quick search here will help you a lot. Otherwise let us know what you plan to have in the shop and we can give you some pointers.

Side note, I couldn't stand working if every job I did was completely designed and spec'd out by someone else. I love doing the design and the construction.

 

[sberry]

I agree commercial is different.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Every commercial construction project I've been involved in had all the electrical detailed including a BOM. There's a spec. book that goes along with the plans.

Yes, it costs more upfront but I've never had a disagreement with a builder or the trades that wasn't quickly resolved with a quick look at the plans, spec book or contract.

There's a big problem with that. Engineers are paid when they complete the plans.
Some are often wrought with Code violations, incomplete or completely wrong info given, and approved during the plan check process just because of the stamp. This causes the contractor to issue numerous Requests for Information which are rarely answered because the engineer has already been paid and is on to other projects. It's left up to the general and electrical contractors to work it out.

 

[matt_i]

Keep in mind residential electrical drawings are really basic outlet and switch symbols, etc with "loopy loops" that just shows the schematic interconnection and nothing about where wires run. So there is value in that...

I have sketches and pictures and CAD but debate whether the CAD as-builts are worth my time, after all its all enclosed and unlikely to be easily modified. Some of it is 3D jumping here and there and that's what would eat up a lot of time. I do have a layer which shows all of the junction boxes and the basic trunk-line conduit runs.

One thing I did was to standardize the vertical elevation of where I drilled all the studs. There's a track of low outlets and a track of high outlets, so even without as-builts, at least I have a good idea of where the wires run.

 

[aka Larry]

Keep in mind residential electrical drawings are really basic outlet and switch symbols, etc with "loopy loops" that just shows the schematic interconnection and nothing about where wires run. So there is value in that.

Yep, that's just what I did for my shop. I drew a plan view showing the circuit connections and an overall isometric view so I could figure my conduit runs.

A drawing helps me figure out how to do things better and more efficiently. I have no idea how someone can just show up and start running a bunch of wires without some sort of plan. I know there are plenty of people that can do just that, I think they are called "electricians", but I'm not one of them.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Larry,
I can see a couple of problems that may come up with your shop diagram.
If the 100A feeder to your shop is aluminum, it would require a 90A max. breaker. If copper you're only required to have #3.

The 3/4" conduit form the panel has 3-#10s and 10-#12s, which would require the current carrying conductors to be reduced by 50% (due to derating) 20 amp on the #10s, and 15 amp on the #12s.

 

[APEowner]

There's a big problem with that. Engineers are paid when they complete the plans.
Some are often wrought with Code violations, incomplete or completely wrong info given, and approved during the plan check process just because of the stamp. This causes the contractor to issue numerous Requests for Information which are rarely answered because the engineer has already been paid and is on to other projects. It's left up to the general and electrical contractors to work it out.

That can be an issue. I've always worked with an architectural firm that doesn't get the final payment until final sign-off on the completed project. It's been pretty rare that a design or spec issue made it through my review, the bid process and the permit process but it has happened. I've only done a dozen or so building projects so my sample is pretty small but I still prefer to try and get all the details worked out on the front end rather than designing on the fly.

 

[aka Larry]

Larry,
I can see a couple of problems that may come up with your shop diagram.
If the 100A feeder to your shop is aluminum, it would require a 90A max. breaker. If copper you're only required to have #3.

The 3/4" conduit form the panel has 3-#10s and 10-#12s, which would require the current carrying conductors to be reduced by 50% (due to derating) 20 amp on the #10s, and 15 amp on the #12s.

FYI, the shop is built now, and that was a rough draft. Several things were changed along the way.

The picture was just to show the OP an idea of what can be done.

 

[Jim greengo]

There's a big problem with that. Engineers are paid when they complete the plans.
Some are often wrought with Code violations, incomplete or completely wrong info given, and approved during the plan check process just because of the stamp. This causes the contractor to issue numerous Requests for Information which are rarely answered because the engineer has already been paid and is on to other projects. It's left up to the general and electrical contractors to work it out.

I've made a career out of fixing engineers screw ups.