30x50x12 Red Iron Bldg Erection Questions

[jjminch]

Good afternoon to everyone.

I've been pricing out a shop for some time. What started as a single car shed is now going to be 1500 sq ft. I've received quotes from virtually every major online outfit I could find.

A local vendor quoted me $16.2k out the door for 30x50x12 PEMB with insulation, trim and gutters, and doors. I have another bid for a complete slab at $4500.

I'm essentially at my $20k budget without an ounce of labor. How difficult are these to erect by yourself? I have a bobcat at work I can borrow to offload and help place things. I'm in no hurry, but I'm sure some things need an extra set of hands.

I was hoping to do some labor myself, but unsure which part I'd need help with. Framing, siding, roof, trim, etc. What can't be done solo? I found locals with experience who will work for $300 a day.

I'm a decent woodworker but haven't done too much with metal before. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Posi]

Bolt up or weld up? In 2004 my two sons and I put up a 30x50x12 red iron bolt up from Meuller. At the time they were ~10 & 14, I had a 60hp tractor with a front end loader on it. I don't see a way I could have got the main cross beams up and bolted without an extra set of hands. I could have probably done the rest of it alone but it would have been MUCH slower.

 

[jjminch]

Bolt up I-Beam. Very similar to a Mueller bldg, company is DDM Metals out of central TX. Not an overpriced car port.

I have a six year old but I don't think he'll be much help. If it's just a few beams I could grab my wife to help with that aspect.

I was wondering how I would trim out 40' roof or keep a 14' long siding panel square and plumb when screwing it in.

 

[kaiser715]

I hired mine out. Crew of 4 had it up and done in a few days. Lots of teamwork, and you could tell they knew every tip and trick to keep it moving, and moving fast. One man show would be possible for most of it, but not fast at all, and maybe not as safely working alone. Thats worth something.

There was one Indian on the crew (American Indian, the feather kind). There'd be a ladder or lift right there, but he'd just shinny up the vertical beam like you or I would walk on the ground. Not his first day on the job.

 

[readhead]

The going rate to put that building up would be 6-7.5 K. Two experienced guys at least but three to four would be better. I always had 4-5 guys on an erecting crew. That size building would be about six days but we showed up with a crane, skytrak, man lifts and lots of tools.

 

[brownbagg]

i did mine myelf,just take your time and make sure it square before adding tin

 

[jjminch]

Thanks for the replies. I received a quote for $5800 for all of the erecting. I’m already selling a bike to partially fund this so can’t afford that as well. Then there would be nothing left to put in the shop!

I’m trying to find some YouTube videos on erecting these things to get a better idea of what I’m in for.

 

[readhead]

The first step is to learn how to read and understand the plans. They are not like normal plans. Second is to place the anchor bolts accurately. Not close-exactly. Third is to shoot the bolt elevations. They should be within 1/4” total. Now you’re ready to start. That’s another post.

 

[ZipSnafu]

My friend and I built my 40x60x14 with very little help. I paid for the concrete work, money well spent IMHO. Bolting the main beams together was a two person job as said above. I would also say the roof if installing insulation was also very cumbersome for one individual. If you can find someone to help it will definitely be a LOT easier for you.

 

[Posi]

Sent you a PM OP.

 

[metalmagpie]

I have found that a Genie SLC is very handy when it comes to lifting beams into place.

I have a gantry whose top I-beam is 14' in the air and I put it up there myself working alone using a Genie SLC-18. I bought it, used it, and sold it for the same price as I bought it for. Free rent. Or, you can rent one.

metalmagpie

 

[jjminch]

Thanks for the replies. All concrete and site prep will be done by others. They'll also place the anchor bolts and run the drains.

I'm going to have plumbing roughed in on one bay for a small guest bath, I need to find some resources on that. I have a rough floor plan sketched out in visio, but don't know what the industry norms are for pipe specs and spacing between toilets/sinks/etc. in a bathroom.

Good idea on the Genie lift. I'll start looking at Craigslist and see if any pop up for sale. I also know someone at Sunbelt so maybe rent won't be too bad.

 

[NotOrganized]

I would be careful if the ones erecting the building are not the ones putting in the anchors. My experience is concrete guys will get close, but rare to find one that is going to get it perfect. Is drilling the anchors in after the slab is poured an option?

 

[jjminch]

I would be careful if the ones erecting the building are not the ones putting in the anchors. My experience is concrete guys will get close, but rare to find one that is going to get it perfect. Is drilling the anchors in after the slab is poured an option?

My guess would be drill anchors in would be acceptable if the original method failed. I'll have to ask the manufacturer. I planned on being present for the pour to check measurements the best i could. Good point though, thanks.

 

[readhead]

The engineer that designs the foundation will determine the bolt length based on the reactions provided by the manufacturer. In my experience drilled bolts are usually twice the length of the original anchor bolt, B7 or equal all thread and installed with epoxy. You want to avoid that if at all possible. You need to check the bolts before the pour and verify that they match the building plans. We would anchor the door jambs with wedge anchors after the pour because owners would sometimes move the doors around. Also check the overall size of the slab. If there is a sheeting notch sometimes that doesn't get added to the overall dimension.

 

[Hooked]

We built a 40x60x14 several years ago. My son-in-law, his dad, my wife and I put up the frame using a Genie lift. My wife and I did the final squaring, etc. and bolt tightening. My wife and I then put up all the siding and windows. (non-insulated sides) Took us about a month to get the siding all done. Nearing Christmas when we were done and I was debating the roof situation when I found a business card on my front gate one day from a local metal building contractor asking if I needed help on the roof. Due to the holiday period his business was very slack so he was simply looking for ways to earn his crew a little money. He offered me a price I couldn't refuse and they had the roof on in one day(with insulation).

They showed me a trick for putting the siding on which would have saved us a lot of time keeping it plumb and steady. Overall, not a bad experience and we may be doing an identical building in the near future.

If we insulate the entire building I'll probably hire a contractor so it gets done in a few days instead of several weeks.

 

[Toomanytools?]

The first step is to learn how to read and understand the plans. They are not like normal plans. Second is to place the anchor bolts accurately. Not close-exactly. Third is to shoot the bolt elevations. They should be within 1/4” total. Now you’re ready to start. That’s another post.

I''m with readhead, getting the bolt pattern/spacing is critical and elevations.
My neighbor did most of his alone I helped a bit standing the posts.
First off how young or old are you? It's a lot of work, even if you get the frame up using equipment, you still need to roll on the insulation ( a pain) and run 12' and taller metal sheets on gable ends.
It's doable get some help and take your time. Because towards the end you will get burned out.

 

[egdede]

They showed me a trick for putting the siding on which would have saved us a lot of time keeping it plumb and steady. Overall, not a bad experience and we may be doing an identical building in the near future.

What was the trick?

 

[readhead]

The trick was probably how to shrink and stretch to stay plumb and on layout.

 

[pcmeiners]

"My experience is concrete guys will get close, but rare to find one that is going to get it perfect. "

Same here, concrete guys are not too precise. Definitely be there with a transit to check heights anywhere steel will attach to concrete, and not the day the steel guys arrive .

 

[readhead]

There is a large difference between residential and commercial concrete contractors. Commercial guys are used to setting bolts all day. Residential guys stab anchor bolts. I'm not bashing the residential guys because they are good at what they do but commercial guys deal with a lot more detail.

 

[jjminch]

I''m with readhead, getting the bolt pattern/spacing is critical and elevations.
My neighbor did most of his alone I helped a bit standing the posts.
First off how young or old are you? It's a lot of work, even if you get the frame up using equipment, you still need to roll on the insulation ( a pain) and run 12' and taller metal sheets on gable ends.
It's doable get some help and take your time. Because towards the end you will get burned out.

I requested a list of local erectors from Meuller and DDM. My thought was to hire out a skilled erection crew to do anchor bolts when they're pouring. I originally thought this could be done solely by concrete crew, but I guess that isn't the case. Appreciate the advice as this could have been very problematic.

 

[jjminch]

We built a 40x60x14 several years ago. My son-in-law, his dad, my wife and I put up the frame using a Genie lift. My wife and I did the final squaring, etc. and bolt tightening. My wife and I then put up all the siding and windows. (non-insulated sides) Took us about a month to get the siding all done. Nearing Christmas when we were done and I was debating the roof situation when I found a business card on my front gate one day from a local metal building contractor asking if I needed help on the roof. Due to the holiday period his business was very slack so he was simply looking for ways to earn his crew a little money. He offered me a price I couldn't refuse and they had the roof on in one day(with insulation).

They showed me a trick for putting the siding on which would have saved us a lot of time keeping it plumb and steady. Overall, not a bad experience and we may be doing an identical building in the near future.

If we insulate the entire building I'll probably hire a contractor so it gets done in a few days instead of several weeks.

I'm 35 and in decent shape. Depending on how finances go it may not be a bad idea to erect this in the fall/winter based on your experience. Nobody in the Austin, TX area is hungry for work and the prices are all very high for any trade.

Appreciate the timeline, I couldn't find any idea how long this would take for amateurs working part time.

 

[Posi]

There is a large difference between residential and commercial concrete contractors. Commercial guys are used to setting bolts all day......

This ^^^

The crew that did mine looked at the plans and set the bolts. Beams went up with no issues.

 

[readhead]

Erectors put up the building. They don't have anything to do with the anchor bolts. That being said I would always visit the job before the pour and verify bolt placement.

 

[pcmeiners]

There is a large difference between residential and commercial concrete contractors. Commercial guys are used to setting bolts all day. Residential guys stab anchor bolts. I'm not bashing the residential guys because they are good at what they do but commercial guys deal with a lot more detail.

Have setup at least 11 >4 story buildings (schools, hospitals etc) in NYC. Commercial concrete guy setup concrete piers/foundation for steel columns incorrectly all the time; f'ing laziness for the most part. Part of my responsibilities as a foreman was to make sure all the steel set points were correct as to height and anchor placement.

 

[readhead]

Fire them and pay for the competent professional guys.

 

[brownbagg]

just remember on the doors to slope your concrete to keep water out

 

[brownbagg]

put the wall up before the roof, roof need to overhang the wall.so put the walls up first

 

[jjminch]

Thanks for all the tips guys.

Trying to get a few more bids on building but nobody has come close to DDM pricing.

 

[readhead]

When you are looking at quotes compare the weight. They should be close. If you have one price that is real low there is a reason.

 

[Marctrees]

"I have another bid for a complete slab at $4500."

Something is VERY wrong w that bid.

1500 ft sq foundation for that type of building will be more like very roughly 3X that.

It is way more concrete and steel and labor than a 4" floating slab, which is way more than $4500 itself.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Your "budget" will only cover a building less than half that size.

Sorry.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

We did a 4800 sq ft Mueller 15 yrs ago.

I took it upon myself to make plywood standoff brackets for the anchor bolts and confirm they were placed correctly.

Marc

 

[kaiser715]

"I have another bid for a complete slab at $4500."

Something is VERY wrong w that bid.

1500 ft sq foundation for that type of building will be more like very roughly 3X that.

It is way more concrete and steel and labor than a 4" floating slab, which is way more than $4500 itself.

Marc

FYI, my 42x60 (2520 swft) took 50 yards of concrete. Plus a heck of a lot of rebar. I did a package deal so dont know breakdown of what footers/slab cost. Wouldn't be surprised if it hit 20k.

A lot if concrete went in each footer area where a beam landed.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Simplytodd]

My father in law and I put up a 30x50x16 bolt together from mueller a few years ago. We borrowed one of his friends tele handler. Took us two days to get the entire frame up. If you are doing insulation like the foiled back be prepared to fight that stuff tooth and nail. Be prepared to drive a million sheet metal screws. Have multiple impact drivers with multiple bits and multiple batteries on standby. Use a story pole to help with screw placement. Nothing looks more unprofessional than your screws running in a zig zag line down your girts.

As mentioned before look at the shipping weight of the suppliers to get a good idea between the quotes. For reference the two suppliers I was considering we’re about two hundred pounds apart all in. My building was 19k lbs.

$4500 dollars for a slab that size is the deal of a lifetime.

All in all it can be done with just a few people with no experience but I would say by yourself it is going to just about kill you. Without someone running equipment and the other driving screws or unloading the panels for the roof and walls expect to go up and down a ladder at least 10-15k on the conservative side. It took my father in law and I a month and I had someone else do the gutters and the garage doors.