Dual 80 my ***

[Mickey O]

I present to you the original dual pawl ratchet with 80 tooth action, the Duro - Chrome 699 (yeah, it's the same ratchet I posted the other day):

Anyhow I was doing some work and needed a ratchet, I grabbed the 699 because I just cleaned it up and it was sitting on top of my tool box. I'm using it and it seems like one of the finest tooth ratchet I have ever used, seemed odd because it's so old. I counted the teeth by rotating it a 1/4 turn and came up with 20, I was surprised. So I looked over at Alloy Artifacts and here is what I found in part:

During the 1930s and 40s much effort was devoted to improving ratchet mechanisms, especially for the "round-head" designs with fine-tooth actions. While others looked for ways to make finer teeth, the engineers at Duro Metal Products came up with a strikingly novel idea. Instead of adding more teeth to the gear, they added a second pawl to the mechanism, with the teeth of one pawl offset from the other by half a pitch. Then as the ratchet turned to get a new "bite", the pawls would alternately drop into position, thereby effectively doubling the number of teeth. The inventor W.H. Odlum and collaborators were awarded patent #2,395,681 in 1946.

The dual-pawl action can be heard clearly when the ratchet is turned slowly, with the two pawls making slightly different clicking sounds as they fall into place. The Duro catalogs advertised this as having "80 tooth action" without describing its 40-tooth gear and dual pawls.

One interesting aspect of the construction is that the ratchet has been permanently assembled by compressing flanges in the head. link to full write up at alloy artifacts

Anyhow I though it was very interesting and thought others might as well, the bad news, it's "permanently assembled" meaning if I break it I might as well pitch it.

 

[justinmc]

The selector lever and head on that thing just seem "perfect"... nice looking ratchet.

 

[mkdive]

Agreed, nice looking ratchet!

 

[mikevango]

Cool. Way ahead of it's time.

 

[dustin19]

looks awesome

 

[chevy302dz]

The Williams roundheads that have been around forever are also a 80 tooth action IIRC.

 

[Mickey O]

The Williams roundheads that have been around forever are also a 80 tooth action IIRC.

From the same write up at alloy artifacts:

Although not a big success for Duro-Chrome, the dual-pawl patent did pave the way for great products from other companies. In the mid 1950s, W.J. Johnson at J.H. Williams & Co made a brilliantly simple (or simply brilliant) improvement to the design. His ratchet used symmetrical dual pawls, but with an odd number of teeth, thereby gaining the same benefit with a simpler mechanism. This resulted in the Williams S-52 model, arguably one of the best ratchets of all time. And some years later, H.J. Haznar at Moore Drop Forging patented an improved shift mechanism and added a quick-release button, features that were used for the excellent Craftsman V-series dual-pawl ratchets.

Sounds like the Duro was first, I have the Williams (not sure what the tooth count is) and I don't think it is as fine a tooth as the Duro.

 

[forceyoda]

The wright ratchets use the dual pawl system as well.

 

[Mickey O]

The wright ratchets use the dual pawl system as well.

Lots of ratchets do now, I think the Duro was the first from what I'm reading at alloy artifacts, not necessarily the best, I just found it interesting.

 

[chevy302dz]

Looks like you're right the Duro's were first, I just knew the Williams had also been around for a long time which is why I mentioned it.

 

[l_bilyk]

Nice ratchet but the mechanisms of round head and teardrop shape ratchets are fundamentally different. The obvious benefit is that teardrop ratchets are completely rebuildable, but once the case wears out in the round head ratchet it's just. Moreover, in newer teardrop ratchets the pawls are designed in such a way that the force you put on it is transferred to the case, whereas in a round head ratchet the force is transferred to a pin that's part of the reversing mechanism.

 

[Mickey O]

Nice ratchet but the mechanisms of round head and teardrop shape ratchets are fundamentally different. The obvious benefit is that teardrop ratchets are completely rebuildable, but once the case wears out in the round head ratchet it's just. Moreover, in newer teardrop ratchets the pawls are designed in such a way that the force you put on it is transferred to the case, whereas in a round head ratchet the force is transferred to a pin that's part of the reversing mechanism.

How many S-K, Williams, Wright, etc. round head ratchet case gears have you worn out? I suspect the case gear is the hardest part and the the other parts are softer so that it doesn't wear out, I've never worn out the case gear on a decent brand ratchet.

 

[sk farmer]

with you on this one mickey. the load is also spred over a much large area on a round head. some pear heads have a a plate that can be replaced but the other end of the ratchet mechanism sits inside the head. how can that be replaced. i don't buy that many round heads have used to the point of being worn out. trtool sent me a wright dual pawl kit to replace a completely worn out and thrashed single pawl kit. it clicks along like a new one. deep grooves had been worn into the guts from being pushed against the teeth in the handle so many times. i can be pretty skeptical and i was surprised.

 

[dieseldodge01]

I have never seen a head worn out on a round head, and I have around 40 New Britain, Husky, Blackhawk and Mustang. The head always looks to be in excellent shape while the pawl on the ratchet mechanism is usually shot, of course I have only had to replace on gut kit in the ratchets and some are 30-40 years old.

 

[arkangel06]

nice ratchet My husky CS series is much more finer then a duel 80

I also have a 1/4'' stanley ratchet thats 80 tooth.

 

[superautobacs]

I think Proto also had a similar offering....of course not as old and cool looking as yours!

The Taiwanese have come up with a 144-tooth using the same old concept.

 

[bchee]

it's "permanently assembled" meaning if I break it I might as well pitch it.

so what's the screw for then?

 

[Mickey O]

so what's the screw for then?

To hold on the direction selector.

 

[CouchSpring]

How many are out there,i'd like to know.

 

[64merc]

I have never seen a head worn out on a round head, and I have around 40 New Britain, Husky, Blackhawk and Mustang. The head always looks to be in excellent shape while the pawl on the ratchet mechanism is usually shot, of course I have only had to replace on gut kit in the ratchets and some are 30-40 years old.

Well, I've never seen a head worn out either, but I did buy a long handle 1/2 drive SK ratchet that was broken, and it turned out that the teeth in the head were actually broken (along with the guts IIRC). I had never seen that before. My guess is that someone had put a really long cheater bar on that bad boy.

 

[Mickey O]

How many are out there,i'd like to know.

Three, the one pictured here, the one at alloy artifacts and one owned by Sir Paul McCartney.







Probably quite a few.

 

[mikevango]

i'd love to find one of the ratchets.

 

[TireTracks]

Thats how the "napa brand"New britan NB-34 is my dad has, it's so fine toothed it sounds like a zip tie being pulled.

 

[MadMark]

Three, the one pictured here, the one at alloy artifacts and one owned by Sir Paul McCartney.

Probably quite a few.

Cute, but I think Ringo would be the only gearhead out of the four.

The more I look at Alloy Artifacts, the more the "new" products look like "back to the future".

For example, the turning sleeve on the Wera extensions for their zyklops ratchet can also be found on vintage Williams extensions.

PS in the Pre Danaher grey colored Armstrong catalog, it clearly states that the roundhead was their strongest ratchet.

 

[egdede]

To hold on the direction selector.

Could one attach (or fashion) a pulling device to the screw threads to facilitate a re-build? Would one be able to press the plate back on? Would one have to heat the metal to avoid fracture, or would that make it worse?

To paraphrase someone else's signature; I think I'd be able to fix it (I've never tried, so I don't 'know' it's wrong).

From Wikipedia:

In December 2006, Times columnist Daniel Finkelstein campaigned for [Ringo] Starr to receive the same honour as his fellow ex-Beatle Paul McCartney by being knighted. Finkelstein's petition to the Prime Minister, given press coverage by The Sun newspaper and the Canadian National Post, attracted 1,887 signatures before its deadline of 13 February 2007. Starr himself has clearly stated both that he does not particularly support the Royal Family ("I think it should end with this queen. I think we can have the pageant without...them. I think they should have built a hospital in the name of the Queen Mum, but they didn’t, they just decided not to pay taxes and keep their money."), and that he is not personally interested in being knighted:

Interviewer: At the end of the song Elizabeth Reigns—which is a balanced view of the queen and company—you say, “Well, there goes me knighthood”.

Starr: There goes me knighthood—yes, I think it has gone, well and truly...

Interviewer: Does that bother you at all?

Starr: No, I don’t want to be a Sir. I want to be a duke or a prince. If they come through with that, I’ll consider it.

 

[ears]

From the same write up at alloy artifacts:





Sounds like the Duro was first, I have the Williams (not sure what the tooth count is) and I don't think it is as fine a tooth as the Duro.

Never seen one of the Duro's have to ask Paul about it next time I see him.

If you turn a Williams slow enough you can tell it is fine tooth, they sort of stutter step. I think some of it is the stiffness of the spring makes it feel coarser. The newer ones with the heart shaped spring click really lightly and evenly, sound and feel great. I am not convinced they are as tough though.