5” Reed Vise - Dovetail Question

[Vise]

Hi all,

I’m new to the forum, but lurked for years and have really enjoyed this group. Awhile back I picked up a Reed No. 405 with swivel jaws and base. I checked the thing pretty well for cracks/repairs and didn’t find any.

Tonight while I was removing the nut I got a better look at the female end of the dovetail. I now see that each side has a separation. I was hoping it was part of the casting, because the separation is identical on both sides of the dovetail, but I fear they are cracks. See pictures below.

Any thoughts?

 

[1982fxr]

Hard too see on my phone but I'm not really seeing anything bad....

 

[drivesitfar]

Vise: welcome to our group!!

yes we love vises and I personally really like old pre 1960 REEDS.

i'm not sure you've got an issue there, but you might want to clean it up more to see if anything is loose. you can remove the pin from below hitting it up and out after you take the swivel base off and remove the vise nut to see if anything is loose. my guess is it's just a rough casting.

here's a few pictures of my Reed 404.5 taken apart if you might need a few to look at.

 

[wrenchguy]

use it, don't abused it!

 

[Vise]

Thanks, guys. You are making me feel better. Nothing is loose, I just haven't seen the inside of many of these old Reeds and didn't notice the separations when I bought it.

@drivesitfar - That's a beautiful Reed. Thanks for the pics. Any chance the female part of your dovetail has these same separations?

Appreciate the help, all!

 

[thehorse13]

Your vise was abused once upon a time. The force needed to create those cracks is extreme. If you use your vise like a normal person and don't abuse it, the cracks should not be an issue.

 

[Vise]

Your vise was abused once upon a time. The force needed to create those cracks is extreme. If you use your vise like a normal person and don't abuse it, the cracks should not be an issue.

Ah, so you think they are cracks then. I was struggling to see what kind of stress could have caused cracks there.

 

[1982fxr]

Is the handle or leadscrew bent?

Any other damage to the outside like from hammer blows?

 

[thehorse13]

Ah, so you think they are cracks then. I was struggling to see what kind of stress could have caused cracks there.

Someone using the vise as a press could do it. We'll never know the answer. One thing is for sure though. You have two cracks at the tail end of the main nut slot.

 

[Vise]

Is the handle or leadscrew bent?

Any other damage to the outside like from hammer blows?

Handle is bent a bit, which I assumed meant it had been abused some. But didn’t see any cracks or repairs until I saw this issue when I started removing the nut.

 

[Vise]

Someone using the vise as a press could do it. We'll never know the answer. One thing is for sure though. You have two cracks at the tail end of the main nut slot.

That’s what I feared. Thanks for the diagnosis. Although I plan to use it, I guess I overpaid with the cracks.

 

[royce]

Ah, so you think they are cracks then. I was struggling to see what kind of stress could have caused cracks there.

They appear to be cracks, most likely caused from tightening the vise on something too large, with the end of the slide inside the body casting.
It puts a huge up force on the dovetail, that it was not designed for.

Royce

 

[Vise]

They appear to be cracks, most likely caused from tightening the vise on something too large, with the end of the slide inside the body casting.
It puts a huge up force on the dovetail, that it was not designed for.

Royce

Makes sense. Thanks. I should have been more thorough in my inspection.

 

[wrenchguy]

Most likely the seller didn't know either, use it, it'll be fine.

 

[Vise]

Most likely the seller didn't know either, use it, it'll be fine.

You sound like the guy who sold it to me.

I intend to use it (once I unstick the swivel jaw), but it’s always a shame to overpay.

 

[1982fxr]

How much did you pay?

 

[Vise]

how much did you pay?

$180

 

[thehorse13]

$180

Ouch.

 

[Vise]

Ouch.

Yeah. I was paying for a vice in good condition. Just got the swivel jaws off and finished disassembling. It’s a shame because the vise is otherwise in very good condition.

 

[jrobb316]

Not the end of the world, once totally apart and cleaned up, I would see just how far it goes along the nut. Looks like its only the very end from the pics. I would probably grind it a little bit and fill the crack with braze or some TIG time.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Not the end of the world, once totally apart and cleaned up, I would see just how far it goes along the nut. Looks like its only the very end from the pics. I would probably grind it a little bit and fill the crack with braze or some TIG time.

If you could get access and get it clean enough, brazing might work. I just get worried unless you drill the end of the crack, the crack will propagate when you heat it up to braze.

I recently picked up a 6" American "red seal" extra heavy duty machinist' vise (134 lbs per the brochure). It has the same problem. In my case the user did it twice and broke off two piece of dovetail on each side. Fortunately the pieces were still there. I found the problem before buying it and was offered the vise for $40. My nice neighbor across the street want it, even with the damage pointed out to him. So I sold it to him for what I paid for it. I only picked it up figuring someone here could use the parts.

The fixing suggestions were:

Bolt the nut with cap screws from the bottom of the vise. Counter bore the holes for the cap screw heads of course.

Or make a "toe clip" to take the bending moment of the nut instead of the dovetails.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7816587&postcount=70941

 

[Vise]

Not the end of the world, once totally apart and cleaned up, I would see just how far it goes along the nut. Looks like its only the very end from the pics. I would probably grind it a little bit and fill the crack with braze or some TIG time.

Thanks for this. The cracks don't appear too deep. Will have to decide whether I want to go the repair route.

If you could get access and get it clean enough, brazing might work. I just get worried unless you drill the end of the crack, the crack will propagate when you heat it up to braze.

I recently picked up a 6" American "red seal" extra heavy duty machinist' vise (134 lbs per the brochure). It has the same problem. In my case the user did it twice and broke off two piece of dovetail on each side. Fortunately the pieces were still there. I found the problem before buying it and was offered the vise for $40. My nice neighbor across the street want it, even with the damage pointed out to him. So I sold it to him for what I paid for it. I only picked it up figuring someone here could use the parts.

The fixing suggestions were:

Bolt the nut with cap screws from the bottom of the vise. Counter bore the holes for the cap screw heads of course.

Or make a "toe clip" to take the bending moment of the nut instead of the dovetails.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7816587&postcount=70941

Good information. Thank you. Sounds like this issue is more common (in abused vises) than I thought. I'm leaning towards just using it as-is and taking it as a lesson to more thoroughly inspect the inside of a vise.

 

[drivesitfar]

Vise: i'll get you some pics when I have my old Reed 404.5 handy to do so. that said I don't think your issue is as bad as some of the members are talking about. also that Reed 405 is not a common vise and $180 is a good price for it. I rarely see one in our area or it would be mine and there's one about 3 hours from me, but the seller wants $500 for it last time I checked his ad.

it's very hard to see or find every little crack especially in a dirty almost 70+ year old vise so don't beat yourself up too hard.

from my chair it looks like the vise nut still sits in there nice and tight so tell me (us) does the vise have any slop or does that issue we are talking about move at all with the screw moving inside the nut?

clean it up and give us some more information and pictures, but I think you still did ok. I cleaned up my REED 404.5 on with about 30 minutes of using the wire wheel on my old B&D bench grinder and i'll clean it up better with a dremel and put on BLO when the weather warms up.

good luck!!

 

[Vise]

Vise: i'll get you some pics when I have my old Reed 404.5 handy to do so. that said I don't think your issue is as bad as some of the members are talking about. also that Reed 405 is not a common vise and $180 is a good price for it. I rarely see one in our area or it would be mine and there's one about 3 hours from me, but the seller wants $500 for it last time I checked his ad.

it's very hard to see or find every little crack especially in a dirty almost 70+ year old vise so don't beat yourself up too hard.

from my chair it looks like the vise nut still sits in there nice and tight so tell me (us) does the vise have any slop or does that issue we are talking about move at all with the screw moving inside the nut?

clean it up and give us some more information and pictures, but I think you still did ok. I cleaned up my REED 404.5 on with about 30 minutes of using the wire wheel on my old B&D bench grinder and i'll clean it up better with a dremel and put on BLO when the weather warms up.

good luck!!

Thanks for the encouragement and pics. That 404.5 is a beauty.

No slop. The nut is tight and there is no movement in the cracks when it turns.

I took a couple pics of he area last night with the flash once I dissassemled. Also got the swivel jaw off (was happy to see they weren’t welded in, which I underatand can happen). See below.

 

[Vise]

If you could get access and get it clean enough, brazing might work. I just get worried unless you drill the end of the crack, the crack will propagate when you heat it up to braze.

I recently picked up a 6" American "red seal" extra heavy duty machinist' vise (134 lbs per the brochure). It has the same problem. In my case the user did it twice and broke off two piece of dovetail on each side. Fortunately the pieces were still there. I found the problem before buying it and was offered the vise for $40. My nice neighbor across the street want it, even with the damage pointed out to him. So I sold it to him for what I paid for it. I only picked it up figuring someone here could use the parts.

The fixing suggestions were:

Bolt the nut with cap screws from the bottom of the vise. Counter bore the holes for the cap screw heads of course.

Or make a "toe clip" to take the bending moment of the nut instead of the dovetails.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7816587&postcount=70941

Missed this post. Thanks for the advice. This is great information.

 

[thehorse13]

Every honest person on this site will tell you their own burn story. All of us have had something like this happen along the way. It's a mathematical certainty given the nature of old tools.

Again, after seeing the cracks, I would have no issue using the vise without repairing the problem. If you use it and don't abuse it, there is a high likelihood that nothing will go wrong.

Think of it as a 180 dollar lesson. Some have paid much more.

 

[Vise]

Every honest person on this site will tell you their own burn story. All of us have had something like this happen along the way. It's a mathematical certainty given the nature of old tools.

Again, after seeing the cracks, I would have no issue using the vise without repairing the problem. If you use it and don't abuse it, there is a high likelihood that nothing will go wrong.

Think of it as a 180 dollar lesson. Some have paid much more.

Appreciate that context. That’s how I’m looking at it, as an expensive lesson. I’ll post some pics of my other vises and resto work in the other vise thread.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

 

[jrobb316]

I like that idea of drilling, counterboring, and installing a socket head cap bolt into the nut. Probably Overkill but it's your choice. I've bought 2 Prentiss 21s now and ended up parting them both out, or scraping because I didn't do my due diligence.