Froze Perfect Aire Mini-Split outdoor unit solid

[Tracs]

Since I am very impatient and would like to try and figure out why the unit is not working I did some tests.

I don't have a multi meter with a capacitance setting to test the capacitor. So I did the resistance test and it rose steady until over limit of the meter.

When the unit was powered up I back probed the fan power connector at the control board. It was showing about 30VAC. The fan wasn't moving or making noise. I gave it a spin to see if it would start but it did not.

Is there any way to remove the fan motor and test it? If it requires a capacitor, how would the motor test be performed. I don't want to just clamp on 240V and fry it if it wasn't already.

 

[Tracs]

So I got a good multimeter and tested the capacitor.

It tested in at 2.47 uF. It is a 2.5 uF +/-5%. So it is good.

In this thread I've been trying to test the fan motor itself. It appears dead to me.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7857873#post7857873

 

[Tracs]

The other day I did some testing of the Fan Motor.

These are the results on the fan motor pigtail plug.

Black to red has 1.6 M ohm and slowly climbs
Black to yellow has 9.8 M ohm and slowly climbs
Red to fan motor case shows 26.5 M ohms and slowly climbs
Black to fan motor case shows no reading
Yellow to fan motor case shows no reading

This is with the capacitor disconnected.

Today I went out and did a more detailed test.

Upon start up it was 135V across the Black and Yellow, low speed.

Across YEL & RED I got 240V.

After a few minutes when the coil warmed up I got 240V across BLK & YEL.

After 10 minutes the voltage dropped off BLK & YEL and across the Black and Red I got 240V. High speed.

So without a service manual and little understanding of how Mini Split's operate, it seems that the circuit board is OK.

It must be the cooling fan.

 

[MattT]

So without a service manual and little understanding of how Mini Split's operate, it seems that the circuit board is OK.

It must be the cooling fan.

Your fan motor does appear to be ohming out bad. Though the readings are a bit strange. Did you ohm the motor out with the pigtail connected to the board? If so ohm the motor out again with it unplugged just to be sure.

Some of your voltage readings are a little squirrely too but that could just be ghost voltage messing with your high impedance DMM.

Sounds like you're at the point where shotgunning a fan motor is the next step. Then when you get a good motor on there then backprobe rhe fan pigtail to check voltages to the fan are good under load.

 

[Tracs]

Your fan motor does appear to be ohming out bad. Though the readings are a bit strange. Did you ohm the motor out with the pigtail connected to the board? If so ohm the motor out again with it unplugged just to be sure.

Some of your voltage readings are a little squirrely too but that could just be ghost voltage messing with your high impedance DMM.

Sounds like you're at the point where shotgunning a fan motor is the next step. Then when you get a good motor on there then backprobe rhe fan pigtail to check voltages to the fan are good under load.

It was checked with the pigtail disconnected.

Hopefully it doesn't take weeks to get the fan. The wholesaler told me that they have never had a unit go bad, so they don't stock parts....

 

[Tracs]

The wholesaler says Perfect Aire won't even talk about anything parts or warranty related until a contractor calls them from on site. Oh joy. This is going to take weeks to sort out.

 

[SALIV8]

That red to fan motor case conductivity tells me your motor has a short to ground.

I think you're on the right path of needing a replacement. Good luck

 

[nsula_country]

The wholesaler says Perfect Aire won't even talk about anything parts or warranty related until a contractor calls them from on site. Oh joy. This is going to take weeks to sort out.

PerfectAire sounds like a PITA to work with. With Ruud parts, I tell the supply house what I need, they provide or order part and bill my account. I swap part and when I drop the bad part on the counter, they instantly credit part back to my account no questions asked. And Ruud doesn't ask the supply house questions.

CT

 

[MattT]

PerfectAire sounds like a PITA to work with. With Ruud parts, I tell the supply house what I need, they provide or order part and bill my account. I swap part and when I drop the bad part on the counter, they instantly credit part back to my account no questions asked. And Ruud doesn't ask the supply house questions.

Along those lines a search for that Welling part # shows it being used on an IRP 18H47ZOMI. Supco sell IRP minis under the Sea Breeze brand. Should be real easy to find a supply house that carries Supco. Probably be harder to find one that doesn't.

Would also be worth the OP downloading service info for that unit from the following link. Might not be an exact match for his imperfect aire but probably close enough to help.

http://www.irproducts.biz/component/finder/search?q=18h47zomi&f=2&Itemid=135

 

[Tracs]

Well what a procedure. My uncle came over today and called Perfect Aire like they requsted. 10 minutes talking to customer service giving them the details and they say a technician will call back in 10-15 min.

40 minutes later they call back. Asks all the same questions again. Have us do some checks. Then he starts talking about about the fan wiring. His schematics don't even show how mine is wired. His only show DC fan while mine is AC fan. 30 minutes later he agrees its the fan.

Then he says he will pass the info back to customer service and they will call back. Well that was at 4:40 and customer service closed at 4:30. The technician said customer service will require copies of the original invoice and shipping address and then they will send out the fan motor.

WOW...what a complicated procedure. At least it is being covered under warranty.

I did finally get a hold of the service manual. It is similar to most I've found online for different branded units.

 

[Tracs]

I do have a question about the pressure charts.

I'm sure my uncle will tell me but I'd like to know now.

In the attached chart, how is it read? I know to use the middle chart in PSI. I know the values are the pressures but what is IDT/ODT mean? What do the numbers across the top left to right mean?

 

[MattT]

I do have a question about the pressure charts.

I'm sure my uncle will tell me but I'd like to know now.

In the attached chart, how is it read? I know to use the middle chart in PSI. I know the values are the pressures but what is IDT/ODT mean? What do the numbers across the top left to right mean?

ODT is OutDoor Temperature and they are the numbers across the top in fahrenheit and (celcius). 3rd one across it looks like they've missed the minus on the celcius which makes it look a little confusing.

IDT is InDoor Temperature and I think it's inlet/discharge temperature but I'm not 100% certain. So second row is probably 75*F air entering the indoor head and you should be getting 63*F air blowing out. Likely with the fan on high, and the thermostat bumped up to run the compressor at full speed, but I'm not sure of that either. Best to check with the "manufacturer" on exactly what the IDT numbers are and what the unit should be set to if you ever need to test pressure.

Regards how it's read if it's 85* outside and 75* inside you're looking for the pressure where the 85* column and the 75* row intersect which is 120 psi. And if the pressure is off it doesn't necessarily mean that the unit is low, or high, on refrigerant. There are several things that can cause it.

 

[yeldogt]

Just wondering .... what is the motor cost?

I hope when you get it all back together the system was not damaged. Sometimes when in a DIY situation .... you have to go with the most likely problem.

 

[Tracs]

Just wondering .... what is the motor cost?

I hope when you get it all back together the system was not damaged. Sometimes when in a DIY situation .... you have to go with the most likely problem.

The motor cost is $73.24, but free under warranty. If I could find one local I would just buy it and save the time and hassle.

I hope everything works when it's back together. This isn't really a DIY situation as my uncle is a certified tech.

The unit appears to operate properly for the first 5 minutes or so but then without the cooling fan the condenser gets hot, the low side PSI rises from ~115psi and all the way up to 350psi, then the system shuts down until it cools and then does it all over again.

The PA technician ran him through some troubleshooting. The indoor unit is fine. The outdoor main board is fine. The refrigerant charge is good.

If it gets put back together and still doesn't work then I would think since it's still on warranty they would replace it.

 

[yeldogt]

The motor cost is $73.24, but free under warranty. If I could find one local I would just buy it and save the time and hassle.

I hope everything works when it's back together. This isn't really a DIY situation as my uncle is a certified tech.

The unit appears to operate properly for the first 5 minutes or so but then without the cooling fan the condenser gets hot, the low side PSI rises from ~115psi and all the way up to 350psi, then the system shuts down until it cools and then does it all over again.

The PA technician ran him through some troubleshooting. The indoor unit is fine. The outdoor main board is fine. The refrigerant charge is good.

If it gets put back together and still doesn't work then I would think since it's still on warranty they would replace it.

Did you not install this yourself w/ help from uncle? That's DIY in my book ... no local dealer involved.

Let's face it -- the unit went down months ago. If this is what is required to try and get a part fixed ... why would one want to buy a PA? Determining why a fan is not spinning is not difficult -- it one of two part typically. My guess is the shipping is more than the part cost to the manufacturer

What does the whole unit have a 1 year parts -- 5 year compressor

 

[Tracs]

Did you not install this yourself w/ help from uncle? That's DIY in my book ... no local dealer involved.

Let's face it -- the unit went down months ago. If this is what is required to try and get a part fixed ... why would one want to buy a PA? Determining why a fan is not spinning is not difficult -- it one of two part typically. My guess is the shipping is more than the part cost to the manufacturer

What does the whole unit have a 1 year parts -- 5 year compressor

Yes we did install it together. To be fair we only started looking at the unit 2 weeks ago and once Perfect Aire was called it only took them 1 day to ship the part.

But you are right, to get parts is a ridiculous procedure. No one stocks parts in Canada either. I told my uncle to bring this up with the wholesaler. What is the point of selling a product they can't service?

The unit has a 30 month complete parts or total replacement and the compressor has a 7 year warranty.

 

[yeldogt]

Yes we did install it together. To be fair we only started looking at the unit 2 weeks ago and once Perfect Aire was called it only took them 1 day to ship the part.

But you are right, to get parts is a ridiculous procedure. No one stocks parts in Canada either. I told my uncle to bring this up with the wholesaler. What is the point of selling a product they can't service?

The unit has a 30 month complete parts or total replacement and the compressor has a 7 year warranty.

Just so I understand -- it seems as if they did speak to you (homeowner) .. was that enough or did they require your uncle? I'm just trying to understand the warranty/repair process.

Not providing warranty/ repair help is a way to get around servicing internet bought products .... but they don't seem to try too hard to stop the distribution.

For many of the basic units -- there is not much inside them.

Funny -- the motor number pops up in various units ... no place selling it that I can find.

 

[Tracs]

Just so I understand -- it seems as if they did speak to you (homeowner) .. was that enough or did they require your uncle? I'm just trying to understand the warranty/repair process.

Not providing warranty/ repair help is a way to get around servicing internet bought products .... but they don't seem to try too hard to stop the distribution.

For many of the basic units -- there is not much inside them.

Funny -- the motor number pops up in various units ... no place selling it that I can find.

Perfect Aire required a licensed technician to call in from the unit. After that they had no problem assisting/sending parts.

As for the motor I spoke with 2 different Heating and Plumbing suppliers in town and neither of them stock any parts for any brands of ductless mini splits. They both said breakdowns are very rare. They only trouble they have had is with rodent damage and negligent home owners.

I guess with only 3-4 months of cooling season the units don't work hard or long enough to wear out.

 

[yeldogt]

Perfect Aire required a licensed technician to call in from the unit. After that they had no problem assisting/sending parts.

As for the motor I spoke with 2 different Heating and Plumbing suppliers in town and neither of them stock any parts for any brands of ductless mini splits. They both said breakdowns are very rare. They only trouble they have had is with rodent damage and negligent home owners.

I guess with only 3-4 months of cooling season the units don't work hard or long enough to wear out.

Parts for these things (in general) is a big issue ... and has been. The big guys seem to have it together .. but, they limit the access. The need to speak to a "licensed" technician for a non refrigerant problem would be an issue for most buyers. Thanks for taking the time to post ... hope it works out.

With my new project -- I have thought about getting the simple certification and buying $600 worth of tools. I have a few of these to put in .. so it could be worth while.

 

[MattT]

Funny -- the motor number pops up in various units ... no place selling it that I can find.

It's probably an OEM part # that Welling can't/won't sell to anyone but the OEM. And the OEM won't distribute them to anyone but the companies they're manufacturing for.

With my new project -- I have thought about getting the simple certification and buying $600 worth of tools. I have a few of these to put in .. so it could be worth while.

$600 isn't going to be enough to do it right if you're starting with nothing. I spent a little under $600 but I already had a good 2 stage vacuum pump and argon for my TIG.

 

[nsula_country]

$600 scratches the surface. I probably have more HVAC tools than many techs. My Fieldpiece SMAN manifold was about $500!

CT

 

[yeldogt]

$600 scratches the surface. I probably have more HVAC tools than many techs. My Fieldpiece SMAN manifold was about $500!

CT

There seems to be some basic kits that fall around that number -- not tools for production ..... but good enough to install a few mini-splits

 

[MattT]

There seems to be some basic kits that fall around that number -- not tools for production ..... but good enough to install a few mini-splits

I take it you're referring to kits like the CPS & Yellow Jacket ones? They look nice but you could probably get what you actually need in those kits cheaper buying piecemeal.

You're looking at several hundred dollars in epuipment beyond what's in the kits to do the job right to US standards. I know you've seen how they do them in Asia. Anyways rough list below but I might have missed something.

2 Stage Vacuum pump. Budget a couple hundred for entry level Robinair. You can spend a lot more than that. Or roll the dice on a cheaper no name chinese.

Micron Vacuum Gauge. Probably around $150.

High pressure inert gas regulator. Under $100 IIRC.

Argon or nitrogen cylinder. I use the argon cyl off my TIG. Don''t know what it'd cost if you have to buy new or rent.

You might also need a tubing bender with the reverse bending adapter which'll likely run another couple hundred. Personally I can hand bend up to 1/2", unless the bends need to be tight, but wouldn't attempt it on anything larger.

 

[nsula_country]

I take it you're referring to kits like the CPS & Yellow Jacket ones? They look nice but you could probably get what you actually need in those kits cheaper buying piecemeal.

You're looking at several hundred dollars in epuipment beyond what's in the kits to do the job right to US standards. I know you've seen how they do them in Asia. Anyways rough list below but I might have missed something.

2 Stage Vacuum pump. Budget a couple hundred for entry level Robinair. You can spend a lot more than that. Or roll the dice on a cheaper no name chinese. 3cfm 2 stage $160 at Harbor Freight. Price goes up from there. 5cfm Refco (my personal pump) on Amazon for $260.

Micron Vacuum Gauge. Probably around $150. Critical piece of equipment to separate you from hacks...

High pressure inert gas regulator. Under $100 IIRC. Welding supply shops have these.

Argon or nitrogen cylinder. I use the argon cyl off my TIG. Don''t know what it'd cost if you have to buy new or rent. Nitrogen is cheaper than Argon. About $20/40cuft swap. About $200 to buy cylinder with contents at a Welding or HVAC supply.

You might also need a tubing bender with the reverse bending adapter which'll likely run another couple hundred. CPS is about $200 and IMHO, better than the Yellow Jacket and includes reverse bend adapter. Personally I can hand bend up to 1/2", unless the bends need to be tight, but wouldn't attempt it on anything larger.

Next on list is double flare kit, O/A rig with O/A cylinders, 15% sil-phos, swage tool, torque wrench with crows foot sockets, allen wrenches, hole saws, aircraft bits, nibbler, snips, screwgun, hand seamer, schrader remover with side port for vacuum (2x), manifold with hoses, optional dedicated manifold with 1/2" vacuum hoses for quicker evac, refrigerant scale, recovery machine and recovery tank...

I have yet to install a mini-split, but have any and every tool for a traditional split system.

Gets expensive quick!

CT

 

[Tracs]

Happy Ending..

New motor arrived today and I installed it. Ran the system in cooling for 2 hours. Worked flawlessly. Then I ran it in heat for a hour and its making 120F output air.

I wanted to comb out the fins so I got a AC fin comb but it isn't fine enough.

As for the old motor. It is certainly toast!

 

[SALIV8]