Outdoor spigot issue - how do I proceed?

[b-boy]

This is an issue with my house, but I'm hoping there are some plumbers on here.

I have a very old house. One of the problems that's been kept me up at night is an outdoor spigot on the side of my house. It just sticks out of the house. It's not attached to anything, and the only thing holding it together is the 1/2" Cu pipe running out of the wall.

There is no accessible shutoff valve for this thing. There is a wall in front of the pipe. The wall is part of a basement bathroom. There may be a shutoff behind the wall, but I can't tell.

This thing has kept me up at night, because of the freeze potential. I'm worried that the extreme cold weather will cause this to burst and flood my basement. I keep it covered with a boot, but that's not enough.

We had a brutal winter this year, and the gate valve no longer works. I turned it on, but it no longer shuts off. I have it capped right now.

I'm adding a new frost free sillcock with a proper shutoff to the house about 10 feet from the current spigot. That area gives me full access to the ceiling.

I want to get rid of the current spigot. I'll have to open up one of the walls to do this, but I'll still have a very limited area to work. I can't imagine getting a torch in there to solder a cap on the line. I'm thinking about using a shark bite, but that really bothers me since it will be behind a wall.

Is there a way of removing the spigot and adding a cap with an extension rod of some kind that would push the water back a foot or so to minimize freezing potential?

Any ideas? Any tricks to do this without tearing up my walls?

 

[The Cobbler]

cut the wall, use a metal shield for heat and solder on a cap

 

[driftpin]

Model # 314002 9 in. x 12 in. Hands-Free Heat Shield by Oatey
Internet #100345508 Store SKU #411396 at Home Depot

Product Overview
The Oatey 9 in. x 12 in. Hands-Free Heat Shield helps protect studs, walls, floors and other surfaces from sparks or flame. Made with flame-retardant Zoltek Pyron fibers. The protector is ideal for use while soldering near studs, joists or walls.

Protects studs, walls, floors and other surfaces from sparks or flame
Can be used while soldering near studs, joists or walls
Ideal for use with propane and max power propylene (MAPP) gas torches
Made with flame-retardant Zoltek Pyron fibers
9 in. x 12 in. cloth
Withstands temperatures up to 2,500° Fahrenheit
Includes brass eyelets for hanging from a stud or wall

 

[nadogail]

Can you turn the water service off at the meter?

If the answer is yes, I suggest you replace the bad gate valve with a ball valve.

I too, have a house that I have been procrastinating on replacing a gate valve.

 

[b-boy]

Thanks. I have a heat shield. My main concern with the torch is just getting to the pipe and being able to maneuver with solder. I'll only be able to get one arm in there at a time.

The wall in question is partially tiled, so my access is very limited. The area behind the wall is probably 6" wide. It's just enough to allow my drains to run behind the wall.

I'm moving the spigot to a more convenient area. For the Short term, I'll just cap the pipe externally. Long term, I'll need to replace it before Winter.

 

[b-boy]

I was hoping for something like this, only permanent.

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/waterstopperforsoldering.html

 

[mike93lx]

After opening the wall, install a cover that allows for future access. This is exactly what i did when replacing one of my spigots that was behind a wall. The cover is not really noticable and can be painted

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

I am guessing, that since you added a new faucet nearby, you no longer need the troublesome one. Find the pipe feeding that one, at some point in the cellar where you have convenient access, shut off the water to your house, then cut the line and cap it. That will permanently disable the problem faucet, and any leak will only release the water contained within the pipe, certainly not much.



.

 

[astroracer]

Do like Jim said, cut the line where it is accessible, cap it, open the spigot and blow any standing water out of the rest of the line. Cut off the old spigot and do what you have to do, outside, to seal the hole in the wall.
Mark

 

[ripperd]

Model # 314002 9 in. x 12 in. Hands-Free Heat Shield by Oatey
Internet #100345508 Store SKU #411396 at Home Depot

Product Overview
The Oatey 9 in. x 12 in. Hands-Free Heat Shield helps protect studs, walls, floors and other surfaces from sparks or flame. Made with flame-retardant Zoltek Pyron fibers. The protector is ideal for use while soldering near studs, joists or walls.

Protects studs, walls, floors and other surfaces from sparks or flame
Can be used while soldering near studs, joists or walls
Ideal for use with propane and max power propylene (MAPP) gas torches
Made with flame-retardant Zoltek Pyron fibers
9 in. x 12 in. cloth
Withstands temperatures up to 2,500° Fahrenheit
Includes brass eyelets for hanging from a stud or wall

This. Those things are amazing. Like from a foreign planet amazing.

I had to to some sweating up against a stud, and with this around the stud and the torch aimed nearly directly at the stud I was able to solder without even discoloring the stud. I don't know how it works, but it was magic.

 

[johnnyradiant]

Are you able to trace the line back to an area that might give more room? Just cause that is where it goes outside doesn't always mean that is the only place to abandon the line.

If the line is dry a fitting can be heated up hot enough to melt the solder after the torch is removed. If the line isn't dry and open elsewhere you may have a difficult time sweating a cap on.

 

[ripperd]

Can you turn the water service off at the meter?

If the answer is yes, I suggest you replace the bad gate valve with a ball valve.

I too, have a house that I have been procrastinating on replacing a gate valve.

No. Ball valves will trap a slug of water when off, which WILL freeze and crack the housing.

 

[SGKent]

Can you turn the water service off at the meter?

I too, have a house that I have been procrastinating on replacing a gate valve.

me three. Had one break in San Diego once. What a PITA. Here someone suggested trying to find a replacement gate and just replace the 40 year old gate portion before it snaps. The valve body is crimped to the plastic pipe coming out of the ground. It takes special dies from the late 70's to work with replacing the whole valve.

That said the OP in this thread did a good job of describing the faucet in question but it left me having a hard time visualizing it. Here in California where it doesn't get really cold except in the mountains, our faucets simply get covered with a styrofoam hat in the winter, and the heat in the house keeps the pipe free. In rare occasions a slight drip does the rest because we have no ground freeze. Once when I was in Fayetteville AR I fixed an outdoor faucet for an uncle, RIP, that was somewhat like what the OP described. The difference between ours here and his was that the actual valve was under the house. A long rod inside the pipe is what opened and closed it. The bib was on the outside so it looked like a normal faucet but the handle attached to that long rod that went back under the house where it was warmer in cold weather. When I went to buy parts there were some that were like 8", 12", 14", 18" long etc and one had to get the right parts to replace the rusty parts. Is it possible the bib described is one of these kinds of faucets? Are there different kinds of silcocks?

 

[Lynden]

Is there a way of removing the spigot and adding a cap with an extension rod of some kind that would push the water back a foot or so to minimize freezing potential?

Any ideas? Any tricks to do this without tearing up my walls?

I would shut off the water, remove the spigot and cut off the existing copper pipe 1" from the wall. There are flat rubber faucet washers that fit tightly inside a 1/2" copper pipe. Get a length of 1/2" diameter plastic rod (dowel) from a hobby store, Amazon or elsewhere. Put a glob of polyurethane caulk in the end of the pipe, push two or three faucet washers into the pipe and use the rod to push the washers and caulk back a distance into the pipe. Leave the plastic rod in the pipe to displace any water that might get past the caulking/rubber plug. Solder a cap onto the end of the pipe (or use a SharkBite cap).

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=1/2"+plastic+dowell&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

[doctordirt]

Ok, the current facet may be a frost free. It would be nice to see a photo. Frost free facet come in a variety of lengths, and previous owner may have purchased the one that is too long. The frost free can be threaded or soldered in. More investigation may save you a lot of wok.

 

[kbs2244]

When I have been uncomfortable using a torch in a small space I have used epoxy to join copper.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Is it possible to cut the copper back farther, add a sharkbite or watts fitting/ball valve and replace with PEX ? This will put the valve farther away from the outside wall and possibly in a more convenient location.

 

[captain14]

If you decide to cut the pipe, cut it to the shortest length as possible. When I redid my copper pipes I left a 12” piece of copper at a tee with the intention of adding something later Fast forward 30+ years I developed a pin hole leak in the short section of copper. I’m guessing the water never circulated the standing water caused the leak. Of course it was above the HVAC duct and about 2” of clearance. That heat shield mentioned above by Driftpin made the repair so much easier.

 

[Roundhouse]

Nothing wrong with shark bites

Find an access cover that you can put over the hole in case you every have to get back in

If it hasn’t frozen yet it’s Probabaly a frost faucet that has the valve part further back in the wall

 

[Turbo]

I am guessing, that since you added a new faucet nearby, you no longer need the troublesome one. Find the pipe feeding that one, at some point in the cellar where you have convenient access, shut off the water to your house, then cut the line and cap it. That will permanently disable the problem faucet, and any leak will only release the water contained within the pipe, certainly not much.



.

This is your answer. Terry

 

[b-boy]

Ok, the current facet may be a frost free. It would be nice to see a photo. Frost free facet come in a variety of lengths, and previous owner may have purchased the one that is too long. The frost free can be threaded or soldered in. More investigation may save you a lot of wok.

The current faucet is ancient and probably not repairable. The house is 145 years old. My guess is that the spigot is probably from the 1950s.

The spigot is simply sweated onto a length of 1/2" copper pipe that sicks out about 2" from the exterior wall. There is nothing actually attached to the wall itself. The entire thing is a length of copper with an attached spigot. No screws or anything holding it in place.

 

[b-boy]

I would shut off the water, remove the spigot and cut off the existing copper pipe 1" from the wall. There are flat rubber faucet washers that fit tightly inside a 1/2" copper pipe. Get a length of 1/2" diameter plastic rod (dowel) from a hobby store, Amazon or elsewhere. Put a glob of polyurethane caulk in the end of the pipe, push two or three faucet washers into the pipe and use the rod to push the washers and caulk back a distance into the pipe. Leave the plastic rod in the pipe to displace any water that might get past the caulking/rubber plug. Solder a cap onto the end of the pipe (or use a SharkBite cap).

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=1/2"+plastic+dowell&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I thought about a similar approach, but using epoxy plumbers putty, followed by a sweated copper cap. I might just do that as a temporary fix until I can open the wall.

 

[jdm5]

Look into Propress - no soldering...

 

[Monza Harry]

This isn't my answer, but you asked about an in pipe pressure plug: https://store.milacron.com/gensuite/web/shopforparts?breadCrumFullItem=94_880 sizing may not work out, and these rarely plug completely, they are used for directional control. I would due the necessary surgery and be over it, I have done and witnessed 6 hrs. of work to avoid a two hour job. Harry