Lennox evaporator coil leaking

[JazzBlueRT]

I had the Lennox evaporator coil replaced under warranty 2 years ago. The new one has also developed a pinhole leak. The A/C unit is less than 6 years old and came with the house.

Does anyone know:

1. If Lennox is prone to problems. The A/C guy said they use very thin copper to improve efficiency (reduce costs). Newer systems supposedly use aluminum.
2. The A/C guy quoted me $8k for a new Trane system.

House is 2900 sqft under air and has 2 a/c units. Both units have had the evap coil replaced so I expect the other unit will fail within a year. The second unit also has a bad relay which is apparently mounted inside the motor and they quoted me $1200 to replace the motor.

What would you guys/gals suggest I do?

 

[BillK]

How much is an evaporator coil ? Has got to be less than 8K I would replace it and keep on going.

 

[ant.foste]

Single floor or two floors in your home?
Where are you located? Upstate New York, or Phoenix, AZ?
What model units do you have? Lennox does have some expensive ECM condenser fan motors that cost around $650 each.

Every brand is a **** shoot from a reliability standpoint these days.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

Single floor or two floors in your home?
Where are you located? Upstate New York, or Phoenix, AZ?
What model units do you have? Lennox does have some expensive ECM condenser fan motors that cost around $650 each.

Every brand is a **** shoot from a reliability standpoint these days.

2 story home. 2 units. I am in Tampa Fl. These are builder quality units, will dig up model numbers if I can. The coils that were replaced under warranty were part of the Lennox evap coil lawsuit. Labor still cost me $600 for the coil install. the Lennox coils woudl be around $1200 installed. I cannot do this work myself.

Spending $1200 every two years for new coils and being without a/c in Florida for up to 2 weeks is not something I want to do.

 

[BillK]

Does the replacement coil have to be a Lennox one ? I replaced the one in my Miller unit about 5 years ago and I don't think we got a Miller oem coil. Probably was a universal replacement. My unit is 15 years old and the only reason replaced the evap coil was because the drain pan cracked and when we were in there it looked like the evap coil might have been barely leaking at one spot so it was easier to go ahead and replace it.

Have you asked your HVAC guy if there is a better quality coil available or if maybe Lennox has upgraded theirs ?

Personally there is no way I would spend 8K compared to $1200 to fix it.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

Does the replacement coil have to be a Lennox one ? I replaced the one in my Miller unit about 5 years ago and I don't think we got a Miller oem coil. Probably was a universal replacement. My unit is 15 years old and the only reason replaced the evap coil was because the drain pan cracked and when we were in there it looked like the evap coil might have been barely leaking at one spot so it was easier to go ahead and replace it.

Have you asked your HVAC guy if there is a better quality coil available or if maybe Lennox has upgraded theirs ?

Personally there is no way I would spend 8K compared to $1200 to fix it.

Lennox use all proprietary parts and retains complete control of their supply chain.

The $8k was for a 2 stage Trane, am looking at Rheem to see if that will come in cheaper.

 

[IndyGarage]

You are getting screwed by your HVAC contractor - fire him and hire somebody who fixes things instead of throws them away.

An air conditioner is a very simple device - not much more complicated than a shop air compressor - the evaporator coil is a totally passive part, with only an expansion valve and a coil that the fan blows air through.

You can use any evaporator coil that is compatible with your refrigerant and is sized to fit. A new coil should cost less than $500 and probably will take 2-3 hours to install.

A compressor relay is about $50 and takes an hour to install.

$8000 for a new system is outrageous, but they know people will pay it - my guess is there is more than $5,000 in profit in that quote - which is why he's really going to push you to pay it.

My guess is the replacement coil was installed badly and the hole is in the input or output braze joints. Lennox would go out of business instantly if they put out coils that only last two years. Either way, a copper coil with a small leak is probably easily fixed.

 

[mfewtrail]

I had the Lennox evaporator coil replaced under warranty 2 years ago. The new one has also developed a pinhole leak. The A/C unit is less than 6 years old and came with the house.

Does anyone know:

1. If Lennox is prone to problems. The A/C guy said they use very thin copper to improve efficiency (reduce costs). Newer systems supposedly use aluminum.

I have a Lennox unit from '07. The only problems I've had with it were a condenser fan failure and a fan relay failed in the air handler. I diagnosed and replaced both myself and have about $100 into the repairs for nearly 12 years of service. Other than that, it's just needed regular cleaning and filter changes.

 

[Eds_tls]

I would never buy a Lennox anything. Ever

 

[Jim greengo]

Yeah I'd find a differant brand of uncased coil and slide it in there.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

You are getting screwed by your HVAC contractor - fire him and hire somebody who fixes things instead of throws them away.

An air conditioner is a very simple device - not much more complicated than a shop air compressor - the evaporator coil is a totally passive part, with only an expansion valve and a coil that the fan blows air through.

You can use any evaporator coil that is compatible with your refrigerant and is sized to fit. A new coil should cost less than $500 and probably will take 2-3 hours to install.

A compressor relay is about $50 and takes an hour to install.

$8000 for a new system is outrageous, but they know people will pay it - my guess is there is more than $5,000 in profit in that quote - which is why he's really going to push you to pay it.

My guess is the replacement coil was installed badly and the hole is in the input or output braze joints. Lennox would go out of business instantly if they put out coils that only last two years. Either way, a copper coil with a small leak is probably easily fixed.

Lennox did put defective coils in their lower end "builder quality" units. https://www.evaporatorcoillawsuit.com/Home.aspx

$8k is about average for the quoted system and similar ones from other brands.

 

[IndyGarage]

Lennox did put defective coils in their lower end "builder quality" units. https://www.evaporatorcoillawsuit.com/Home.aspx

$8k is about average for the quoted system and similar ones from other brands.

It's always cheaper to fix the one you have. There's probably nothing wrong with the compressor and condenser, and that's the most expensive part.

If you read it, Lennox denied all claims, but agreed to a settlement in order to end the blood sucking of the lawsuit.

My guess is they changed the manufacturing process or materials and did have a rash of defective units. But that doesn't mean there's anything significantly wrong with the one you have - do you know where the leak is?

Like I said - $8K is a huge payday for the installer. A Trane condenser might cost $2,000 - Evaporator cost 500 - 800. Furnace might cost another $1500 if that's included. It'll take a couple guys half a day to install. So if the furnace is included then the profit might only be $3K on that deal.

 

[brewchief]

Do you have air handlers with the coil built in or a furnace with a separate coil?

I don't think that there is an exact fit replacement from copper to aluminum for the air handlers, we rarely deal with air handlers so it's possible but I doubt it.

The newer aluminum coils have been very good, I think we have replaced 1 compared to a bunch of the copper coils.

The copper coils will leak in the middle of the coil, repairing them isn't possible.

If we replaced a coil and it failed again in two years I'd be leaning on my Lennox territory manager to cover parts at a minimum and we would probably end up eating most or all of the labor.

Is the problem motor in the indoor unit? If it's a variable speed or constant torque motor the module on the end can fail, sometimes you can replace just the module and sometimes it's only available as the motor/module together.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[JazzBlueRT]

It's always cheaper to fix the one you have. There's probably nothing wrong with the compressor and condenser, and that's the most expensive part.

If you read it, Lennox denied all claims, but agreed to a settlement in order to end the blood sucking of the lawsuit.

My guess is they changed the manufacturing process or materials and did have a rash of defective units. But that doesn't mean there's anything significantly wrong with the one you have - do you know where the leak is?

Like I said - $8K is a huge payday for the installer. A Trane condenser might cost $2,000 - Evaporator cost 500 - 800. Furnace might cost another $1500 if that's included. It'll take a couple guys half a day to install. So if the furnace is included then the profit might only be $3K on that deal.

Lennox will never get a penny of my money ever. When a company knowingly sells a defective part and replaces the defective part with another known defective part under warranty, it is not a company I will ever do business with again.

This is the (equivalent) system, they are installing a

https://www.allyeardirect.com/shop/...tx6030j1000a-with-tam9a0b30v31da-air-handler/

The company is a highly respected company and their techs are well paid. If they make $2k on the install, good for them. They keep a literal army of techs happily employed.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

Do you have air handlers with the coil built in or a furnace with a separate coil?

I don't think that there is an exact fit replacement from copper to aluminum for the air handlers, we rarely deal with air handlers so it's possible but I doubt it.

The newer aluminum coils have been very good, I think we have replaced 1 compared to a bunch of the copper coils.

The copper coils will leak in the middle of the coil, repairing them isn't possible.

If we replaced a coil and it failed again in two years I'd be leaning on my Lennox territory manager to cover parts at a minimum and we would probably end up eating most or all of the labor.

Is the problem motor in the indoor unit? If it's a variable speed or constant torque motor the module on the end can fail, sometimes you can replace just the module and sometimes it's only available as the motor/module together.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

The motor on the second unit is in the air handler. I could probably replace that myself, but the motor is $900. Maybe pull the motor out of the unit being replaced.

I am going to call the company that replaced the coil and see if they can get Lennox to replace it. I have no problem paying for labor. That would be the ideal situation. The other Lennox dealer said we were 5 months out of warranty and there was nothing they could do.

The house is 5 1/2 years old, I should not have these types of problems..

 

[IndyGarage]

The motor on the second unit is in the air handler. I could probably replace that myself, but the motor is $900. Maybe pull the motor out of the unit being replaced.

I am going to call the company that replaced the coil and see if they can get Lennox to replace it. I have no problem paying for labor. That would be the ideal situation. The other Lennox dealer said we were 5 months out of warranty and there was nothing they could do.

The house is 5 1/2 years old, I shoudl not have these types of problems..

OK, but why install a new system when only a coil is bad? What are you going to get paying $8,000 vs $1200?

 

[ant.foste]

2 story home. 2 units. I am in Tampa Fl. These are builder quality units, will dig up model numbers if I can. The coils that were replaced under warranty were part of the Lennox evap coil lawsuit. Labor still cost me $600 for the coil install. the Lennox coils woudl be around $1200 installed. I cannot do this work myself.

Spending $1200 every two years for new coils and being without a/c in Florida for up to 2 weeks is not something I want to do.

Send me model and serial and I'll tell you the cost of the coil and motors.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

OK, but why install a new system when only a coil is bad? What are you going to get paying $8,000 vs $1200?

I would rather pay $8000 to an honest person than $1200 to a crook.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

Send me model and serial and I'll tell you the cost of the coil and motors.

Based on advice from brewchief, I spoke to the original installer for the builder who said Lennox will cover all the costs if the replacement coil is found to be defective (for these particular units). The original installer apparently installed these units in thousands of new construction homes in the area and has more pull than the other Lennox dealers. If they come through, then I will no longer be angry with Lennox.

In SW Florida, our AC is our life!!!

 

[Rolland]

You are getting screwed by your HVAC contractor - fire him and hire somebody who fixes things instead of throws them away.

An air conditioner is a very simple device - not much more complicated than a shop air compressor - the evaporator coil is a totally passive part, with only an expansion valve and a coil that the fan blows air through.

You can use any evaporator coil that is compatible with your refrigerant and is sized to fit. A new coil should cost less than $500 and probably will take 2-3 hours to install.

A compressor relay is about $50 and takes an hour to install.

$8000 for a new system is outrageous, but they know people will pay it - my guess is there is more than $5,000 in profit in that quote - which is why he's really going to push you to pay it.

My guess is the replacement coil was installed badly and the hole is in the input or output braze joints. Lennox would go out of business instantly if they put out coils that only last two years. Either way, a copper coil with a small leak is probably easily fixed.

I know this is an old post but his tech was actually doing them a favor. I'm the type of tech that tries to repair every system first within. Reason but on this topic the Lennox system o ly uses a proprietary "factory replacement" coil and 9/10 it'll leak again I'm in front of a 7 tear old Lennox gaspak that we have replaced the indoor coil 2 times and guess what it's leaking again. So I'm going to call Lennox and see if they will take care of there client. Lennox has several class action lawsuits for this exact issue in multiple unit. If you can find an aftermarket coil please send me the leak. Our company wouldn't install Lennox is they were free. Lol

 

[IndyGarage]

I know this is an old post but his tech was actually doing them a favor. I'm the type of tech that tries to repair every system first within. Reason but on this topic the Lennox system o ly uses a proprietary "factory replacement" coil and 9/10 it'll leak again I'm in front of a 7 tear old Lennox gaspak that we have replaced the indoor coil 2 times and guess what it's leaking again. So I'm going to call Lennox and see if they will take care of there client. Lennox has several class action lawsuits for this exact issue in multiple unit. If you can find an aftermarket coil please send me the leak. Our company wouldn't install Lennox is they were free. Lol

I don't have a link. I don't know how Lennox could make the evaporator proprietary, but I'm sure they would try. I would think any properly sized evaporator with the correct TXV for the gas would work.

 

[Rolland]

I don't have a link. I don't know how Lennox could make the evaporator proprietary, but I'm sure they would try. I would think any properly sized evaporator with the correct TXV for the gas would work.

On a split system yes. Because you can use any cased coil provided its metered correctly. But on package units they don't make universal coils that goes for any brand. I've been doing HVAC for 21 years I've seen someone try and retrofit an indoor coil in a package unit once in all that time. It didn't fit correctly so client lost efficiency, airflow and capacity was compromised. With the newer equipment the tolerances will be tighter and tighter. So these so called hacks will be exposed much quicker. In 2025 there will be another refrigerant introduced in American market been used for 10 years or more in EU, with that said the newer units will be what they call communicating system and the build will tell you everything and preset tolerances will not be allowed and the system won't allow parts to be bypassed, they won't work out of specs. Which will make these hacks learn about airflow "static pressures" so no more making them work with our correct ductwork. Bad thing us the average person won't be able to afford a new unit or to have anything repaired. In the time I've been in hvac I've never seen price increases like we did this year 28% increases January 1st because of the government changing the minimum efficiency from 13seer to 14seer and I'm hearing that in 2025 it may raise by as much as 40% I'm one of the few guys who try and help the consumer as I'm not rich I work like everyone else so I put my self in there shoes

 

[IndyGarage]

On a split system yes. Because you can use any cased coil provided its metered correctly. But on package units they don't make universal coils that goes for any brand. I've been doing HVAC for 21 years I've seen someone try and retrofit an indoor coil in a package unit once in all that time. It didn't fit correctly so client lost efficiency, airflow and capacity was compromised. With the newer equipment the tolerances will be tighter and tighter. So these so called hacks will be exposed much quicker. In 2025 there will be another refrigerant introduced in American market been used for 10 years or more in EU, with that said the newer units will be what they call communicating system and the build will tell you everything and preset tolerances will not be allowed and the system won't allow parts to be bypassed, they won't work out of specs. Which will make these hacks learn about airflow "static pressures" so no more making them work with our correct ductwork. Bad thing us the average person won't be able to afford a new unit or to have anything repaired. In the time I've been in hvac I've never seen price increases like we did this year 28% increases January 1st because of the government changing the minimum efficiency from 13seer to 14seer and I'm hearing that in 2025 it may raise by as much as 40% I'm one of the few guys who try and help the consumer as I'm not rich I work like everyone else so I put my self in there shoes

I didn't know you were talking about a split.

They introduced the last new Freon because they wanted to force everyone to upgrade. They are doing the same thing now. It had no scientific link to the ozone and certainly not to safety. Freon was invented by Charles Kettering and his assistant to be a safe alternative to propane - which works very well for refrigeration, but people were afraid to put it in their homes.

The original Freon patent ran out and when foreign manufacturers entered it was dirt cheap, so they had to find a way to introduce new patented refrigerants that they could charge more for (which are actually less efficient, that's why the equipment has gotten bigger). Now they are on to round two, because the patents ran out again.

The whole purpose of changes is to Jack up the prices. Do you really think by replacing an old system with a new one that costs thousands of dollars and scrapping the old one we are either saving money or helping the environment. No we aren't - it's just a business play.

I appreciate someone who doesn't enjoy scamming people.

 

[PoorUB]

Six year old unit? It should have a ten year warranty for the equipment and coil from Lennox. You should not have to pay for a replacement Lennox coil, although if you replace the coil with another brand you will have to pay for it.

Labor to swap just the coil should be four hours tops, so maybe $500, again the coil should be free.

I worked for a wholesaler that sold Armstrong and Ducane, both sister companies to Lennox. We had very few coil warranties.