Can't Turn Off Water Spicket In The Basement ?

[427HISS]

I'm needing to turn off one of the two spicket's downstairs for a project, but they won't budge.

The thin metal knob's are weak, and I broke one in pieces trying to get it off, the second one I sprayed with WD-40 and a similar product with no result. The four sides piece of metal that is part of the valve, that the knob is attached to using a fine screw, is made of brass, so I'm vey concerned about breaking it.

Our small township maintenance guy will charge us (don't know the cost) for digging down 6' to turn the main valve off in our front yard.

The house was built in 1977, so it's not that old.

I can not,...break off either valve in the basement valves, can you imagine the flood by the time the main outside is shut off !

So, any ideas ?

 

[Bobf]

Don't know where you live, but any place I've been if it's city water it is metered for billing and there is always a valve near the meter to turn off the water and usually it's a valve with a handle with a hole in it to place a lock should the bill not be paid

 

[pbon]

No master valve inside the house where the pipe comes in?

 

[427HISS]

The city water pipe comes into the basement, then the first water shut off valve, then the city water meter, then the second water shut off valve.

I can't get either valves to turn off.

 

[jd_1138]

You definitely want to get those stuck valves replaced with modern 1/4 turn valves. If there's a leak somewhere in the house, you will have a flood if you can't shut the water off. Should have a main shut off and shut offs inside the house.

Our local town maintains the shut off that is out by the street under a cover. It was stuck, and they replaced it for free.

 

[rburke65]

Well keep apply the pray lube/ rustbuster or ?

 

[Bretny]

Find the outside shut off your self. Usualy you dont need to dig down 6' to turn it off. Some times the spud for the valve is sticking out of the ground.

 

[Ing3018]

Sounds like you'll be replacing your main shutoff valves. Might as well have the utility come out and shut off your service at the main. Have new valves ready to go and it should be a quick job.
Even ball valves can develop a hard water deposit on them and be hard to close. Close and open your valves a couple times per year to maintain their function.

 

[427HISS]

I will drench a towel with more rust penetrant or the "Blaster" (that my wife hates the smell, all through the house) and let it set a few hours or even all day, and try again tomorrow....

Being the valves and meter are in my basement, who pays the bill for fixing the situation ?

This is the one I'm trying.

https://www.acehardware.com/departm...m_term=4581664954601383&utm_content=Catch All

 

[427HISS]

Have to leave for a couple hrs. Be back.

 

[Two Speed]

I would imagine the city pays for the one on their side of the meter, and you pay for the one on your side. Only way to find out for sure is call your city water department (another one of those items that vary by where you live).

 

[Bobf]

When I lived in St.Paul, MN the pipes came in the basement due to being buried below the frost line, and the meter was also in the basement can't recall the valve situation, that was in the 50's
Out here in CA the meter is in a box adjacent to the street but still there is a lockable valve going into the meter. We had a leak at one point at the meter and they came out and fixed it. I would diplomatically talk to the folks in the township offices and see if they would fix the valve at least just past the meter outlet. Then you can at least turn off the water should you have to remove/replace the other valves.

 

[SGKent]

Leave them alone until you can have the main water turned off and replace them. You are going to turn a maintenance item into an emergency if you try anymore to work on them. Gate valves corrode in some places due to mineral content in the water. The stem can break off with the gate in the open or closed position so even if you get them closed there is no guarantee they will open. Ask me how I know. And mine that broke was not even hard to turn, it just came apart inside the valve body due to corrosion. When does it happen? About 7:30 PM on a day when businesses are closed the next so you will be without water for at least 2 days - and unless you pay a premium the plumbers will all tell you that they can't get out until Thursday so that will be 5 days without water. Not to mention that if it goes really bad way you'll be pumping water out of the basement.

 

[Rock knocker]

Don't F with the valve upstream of the meter, that is likely the property of the water district. Start by calling them and see what they say, they may want to replace it on their dime.

 

[427HISS]

Leave them alone until you can have the main water turned off and replace them. You are going to turn a maintenance item into an emergency if you try anymore to work on them. Gate valves corrode in some places due to mineral content in the water. The stem can break off with the gate in the open or closed position so even if you get them closed there is no guarantee they will open. Ask me how I know. And mine that broke was not even hard to turn, it just came apart inside the valve body due to corrosion. When does it happen? About 7:30 PM on a day when businesses are closed the next so you will be without water for at least 2 days - and unless you pay a premium the plumbers will all tell you that they can't get out until Thursday so that will be 5 days without water. Not to mention that if it goes really bad way you'll be pumping water out of the basement.

OH YIKES !

Now you have me running scared !

So, I won't force them, and will give them a call tomorrow.

 

[matt_i]

We had the same fail mode in our house as kids. The minerals encrusted the "gate" or the shaft which drives it. We got one freed up by gently working it back and forth many times very slowly. The spray lube will do nothing, this is on the water side of the case.

The other one (one above and one below the meter) we never could get freed up and just used the one that worked. As others mentioned, Full Port ball valves would be best as a modern replacement.

Our house (city water) had a cast iron cap in the sidewalk out front which i think took a Penta wrench to open and then there was a valve buried about 6 feet down below the frost line which took an appropriate length T-handle wrench to actuate. Steel sleeve between the surface and the valve, no digging required.

The problem even with freeing up a stuck gate is that the problem will return forevermore unless the valve is actuated regularly. Going to the modern 1/4 turn ball valve will solve it as the minerals won't stick to the teflon seat.

 

[driftpin]

You are doing it how it should be done. As said, the city-side shutoff is their responsibility, after the meter (house supply side) is yours. Are you going to try to do it when the utility is out to change their valve? If you aren't experienced in this work, this is a good time to hire a competent plumber. You could ask the city utility, but I bet they will tell you to retain the services of a professional.

Like changing smoke detector batteries, when the DST starts/stops, open/close the valves.

 

[BillK]

One of my customers who is a plumber has a device they use to actually freeze the incoming line right before the shutoff valve. Then they can replace the valve without having to get the county to come and shut the water off to the house. I am getting ready to have him come out and do mine because I cant get the shutoff to budge either My house was built in 78 so about the same age. I use to try and exercise the valve once a year or so but ......

If you do end up having the city shut yours off make absolutely sure that it is actually completely shut off before you start doing any work. One of my neighbors found out the hard way They had the water shut off to fix an issue but it really was not totally turned off. Plumber came in and started doing some work and it started leaking. Took the county 6 hours or so to get the shutoff in the ground fixed and you can just guess at how much water damage they got. Plumber should have checked before starting to cut pipes but that is another story

 

[427HISS]

I'll just wait to call the maintenance guy tomorrow. With my bad health I don't want a disaster, especially with all the **** we have downstairs.

I'm in the process of installing a 125 gallon reef tank in the living room wall. In back of it is now the "aquarium room" to house all the equipment, tanks for quarantining fish and corals, hospital tank, propagation tank for baby corals etc.

In the room, I'm making a water change system with two Brute cans, one for RO/DI water and freshly mixed saltwater. The waste water line will go downstairs to a 100 gallon tub that has a pump to run outside to the garden, so we don't just run it into the sewer.

Anyway, so I need to shut off the water to install the RO/DI setup and to cap off the brass waterline from the refrigerator. Somehow, that line has a few micro-tiny holes that are misting into the laundry room. For now I clamped it off.

So that's why I need to get the valves shut off and replaced.

 

[BillK]

Find the outside shut off your self. Usualy you dont need to dig down 6' to turn it off. Some times the spud for the valve is sticking out of the ground.

Here in our county it is illegal for you to touch that valve. Not even sure if a plumber can touch it.

 

[Stuart in MN]

When I lived in St.Paul, MN the pipes came in the basement due to being buried below the frost line, and the meter was also in the basement can't recall the valve situation, that was in the 50's

In Minneapolis as well as St. Paul the main shutoff is out at the curb, it's at the bottom of what's called a stop box.

That have a long T wrench that's used to access the valve, they slide it down through the stop box assembly. No digging required, other than maybe removing an inch or two of sod and dirt that may be covering it at the surface.

 

[cherrybomb]

If you can find the shut off by the street,might be under some sod.Our city marks blue paint on the curb.The nut has a special 5,yes 5 sided socket. Its called a penta socket.I got mine from the Williams catalog.I own my house.our basement is completely fixed u.p.I have that socket and sliding tee handle as my emergency.I do not want to wait for an hour in a water emergency for city help.Before I broke a valve,at least have a helper out at street with the penta socket.Easier to explain to city,why I turned off my own water than to the better half.Water can be a serious problem quickly.

 

[cherrybomb]

My penta socket,for our town is a Williams,SB-526,it is 51/64 th.Came out of the Williams ,Snapon Brands Catalog.

 

[RVDan]

Stop paying your water bill. Eventually the city will show up and shut off the water for free.

I’m having that struggle with my electricity. They want $300 to come out and shut it off so I can do a panel change. If I let the bill lapse for two months they will come and shut it off for free, then I can do my panel change safely, and pay my bill plus a $50 reconnection fee.

 

[427HISS]

Our town of Eagle Ne. was built in the late 1890', added new home's homes in the 40's, the in 77's they added new construction, larger well water, concrete street's, new business stores etc.

We live in the newer parts called Eagle Heights. We moved away from growing up in our capitol city of Lincoln 35 years ago, Eagle is only 10 miles away . It is a wonderful little town. I think we're up to 1,500 residents.

As a kid we raced 125cc go-karts, then mimi-sprints then up to 360/410 dirt winged sprint cars. Of the 13 years we raced the big sprint, we had to travel,.....2 miles to Eagle Raceway ! Whew, what a pain to ! ����

Saving gas and time was awesome. Even our other local track I-80 Speedway is only 15 miles. The would renowned Knoxville Speedway is a great track and facility, but it takes all morning to set up the car, load tools etc into the hauler, drive 4.5 to 5 hrs, unload, race all the heats, features, load everything again the 5 hrs back home, unload some things etc., shower and in bed around 3:00 to 5am. Whew....we actually started with a dually truck and a open trailer, but that sold very quickly ! Fine for our tracks, but not traveling.

Anyway, I need to get a hold of the maintenance guy to get this going.

 

[acmikee]

I see2 options
1 freeze the pipe with co2, cut out a section and add anew shutoff valve
2 buy a "add a valve" which will allow to isolate the water so you can do the repairs

 

[gahrajmahal]

I assume that your home is plumbed in copper. I believe that once you discover the main shutoff is bad you will discover the individual shut offs for the sinks and toilets are non functioning too. It might be time to start researching plumbers to replace the whole system rather than having several emergency repairs due to decomposing valves and hardened pipes. It will be cheaper in the long run.

I mention this as I went to a friends house to repair a leaking drain and ended up replacing all supply and copper drains. We went with PVC drains and Pex for supply lines. They were out of town for a week so I could do the job with minimal disruption to them.

 

[topcok88]

Anyway, so I need to shut off the water to install the RO/DI setup and to cap off the brass waterline from the refrigerator. Somehow, that line has a few micro-tiny holes that are misting into the laundry room. For now I clamped it off.



So that's why I need to get the valves shut off and replaced.

If I am understanding correctly the house was built in ‘77, both main valves in your basement are “stuck open”, and you also have a few holes in existing copper (I assume) piping in the laundry room? If this is indeed factual I would be bracing myself to begin a plumbing replacement. It may be in your best interest to get a water test performed.



Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[427HISS]

It's iron pipe coming in from the outside, then copper in-line teeing off to the faucets, heater etc. The hole in the copper is just the 1\4" tubing from the refrigerator water line. Other than the two valves and fridge tubing, all is in good condition.

 

[Millwrong]

Stop paying your water bill. Eventually the city will show up and shut off the water for free.

I’m having that struggle with my electricity. They want $300 to come out and shut it off so I can do a panel change. If I let the bill lapse for two months they will come and shut it off for free, then I can do my panel change safely, and pay my bill plus a $50 reconnection fee.

Haha, Love it. You're the type of guy I'd get along with!

 

[dwasifar]

Stop paying your water bill. Eventually the city will show up and shut off the water for free.

I’m having that struggle with my electricity. They want $300 to come out and shut it off so I can do a panel change. If I let the bill lapse for two months they will come and shut it off for free, then I can do my panel change safely, and pay my bill plus a $50 reconnection fee.

Smart, if you're willing to live with the downsides:

• Happens on their schedule, not yours
• They may not turn it back on as quickly as you want
• Credit score ding

 

[dwasifar]

This may be of interest to readers of this thread who are unused to the word "spicket": https://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_41.html

Actually I wouldn't have called OP's problem device a spicket/spigot. What he has there is a valve. A spigot/spicket is more like a faucet or tap.

 

[427HISS]

You're correct. Thank you. Lol
My English teacher would appreciate you learning me.

Hope I can get to this ver soon, I need to hook up the RO/DI system for the saltwater reef & fish tanks. Tired of going to the grocery store and getting 60 gallons, loading the unloading once home.

 

[MarlynOC]

does valve have a packing nut that you can back off and then turn the handle?

 

[CoogarXR]

Been there... Here was my thread about it (just in case you are bored and want a read):

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349404

 

[dwasifar]

You're correct. Thank you. Lol
My English teacher would appreciate you learning me. ��

My dad was a Marine gunny turned English teacher thanks to the GI Bill, and my mom was a transplanted New Jerseyite who said "spicket" and set my dad's teeth on edge. She also said "crick." He firmly trained me and my sister to say "faucet."

Tired of going to the grocery store and getting 60 gallons, loading the unloading once home. ��

Oh no doubt!