Appropriate Device ring cover size for 5/8" Sheetrock

[branimal]

Is a 5/8" deep device ring the appropriate size?


I'm installing these metal junction boxes for outlets and switches throughout my renovation project. They are designed to be used with metal studs.



Link:
https://www.garvinindustries.com/el...-boxes/2-1-8-in-deep-bracket-boxes/52171-msbx

 

[dogdog]

I just get the appropriated mud rings for it... single gang or double gang... I did the same for the previous renovation... have better room than the standard ones...

1/2 5/8 or 1" , 1-1/4 etc dependents on the dry wall you are putting on... if it is a little under, you can always use a longer screws

 

[alfredeneuman]

The ring needs to be 1/8" deeper than the drywall.
The reason for this is that the 8-32 screws on the box's corners take up 1/8" of the ring's depth.

 

[Jim greengo]

1/2" rings for 1/2" sheetrock,just make sure box is flush with edge of stud before installing plaster ring.

 

[alfredeneuman]

1/2" rings for 1/2" sheetrock,just make sure box is flush with edge of stud before installing plaster ring.

They're not plaster rings; they're switch rings (plaster rings are round, and made for light fixtures).

The correct answer is the one I posted, along with the reasons.

 

[Aceman]

1/2" rings for 1/2" sheetrock,just make sure box is flush with edge of stud before installing plaster ring.

That's incorrect.

1/2" rock=5/8" mud rings
5/8" rock=3/4" mud rings

And so on.

Myself and others on here do electrical for a living. This is how you size mud rings so they flush out or at the most are just a hair under the sheetrock.

 

[Norcal]

That's incorrect.

1/2" rock=5/8" mud rings
5/8" rock=3/4" mud rings

And so on.

Myself and others on here do electrical for a living. This is how you size mud rings so they flush out or at the most are just a hair under the sheetrock.

This advice from Aceman, & Alfredeneuman, is sound, nothing worse then a bunch of floating receptacles because someone did not take the care to set the boxes correctly.

 

[ddawg16]

Is a 5/8" deep device ring the appropriate size?


I'm installing these metal junction boxes for outlets and switches throughout my renovation project. They are designed to be used with metal studs.



Link:
https://www.garvinindustries.com/el...-boxes/2-1-8-in-deep-bracket-boxes/52171-msbx

Are you using metal studs?

 

[Jim greengo]

They're not plaster rings; they're switch rings (plaster rings are round, and made for light fixtures).

The correct answer is the one I posted, along with the reasons.

Where I come from they're all called plaster rings.
I've used 1/2" plaster rings with 1/2" sheetrock since,I dont know 1980 maybe.
Never had an inspector or anybody else complain,so use and call what them what ever you want.

 

[Jim greengo]

That's incorrect.

1/2" rock=5/8" mud rings
5/8" rock=3/4" mud rings

And so on.

Myself and others on here do electrical for a living. This is how you size mud rings so they flush out or at the most are just a hair under the sheetrock.

I've had an electrical contractors license for the state of Nebraska for a more years than I'd prefer to remember on most days.
I've done work in Nebraska and iowa/south dakota/north dakota/kansas/Missouri/arkansas/arizona,I've even done work in the land if fruit and nuts in california.
I'll stick with my original post.

 

[Jim greengo]

By all means ,Google plaster ring and see what pops up.

 

[Bert_]

They're not plaster rings; they're switch rings (plaster rings are round, and made for light fixtures).

The correct answer is the one I posted, along with the reasons.

Asking for a switch ring would get you a blank look here. Plaster ring or mud ring is the term to use, 1G, 2G, or oct/round depending on what you need.

Your post is the first time I have ever heard the term switch ring.

I tend to go with a plaster ring 1/8" over the wall thickness, but it doesn't have to be. Your allowed 1/4" with sheetrock or other non combustible.

 

[branimal]

Appropriate Device ring cover size for 5/8" Sheetrock

Are you using metal studs?

Yes all metal stud framing. The box I posted has a little leg on it that braces against the opposing sides drywall to prevent the box and hence outlets from flexing when receiving a plug.

The leg is not shown in the picture, but it’s in the video link above.

I’ll order 3/4” mud rings. Mostly 1 gang and some 2 gang.

Putting in a bulk order so wanted to make sure I got it right.

Thanks.





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[alfredeneuman]

By all means ,Google plaster ring and see what pops up.

By all means, Google "electrical device rings" and see what comes up

 

[alfredeneuman]

I've done work in Nebraska and iowa/south dakota/north dakota/kansas/Missouri/arkansas/arizona,I've even done work in the land if fruit and nuts in california.

How many of these states do you have a license for?
Were you working as an employee, or just doing side work?
...or all of these states "behind my house"
(BTW the San Joaquin Valley in CA is often referred to as the "Breadbasket of the World")

 

[branimal]

How many boxes should I get for a 1000 sq ft apartment with 3br / 2bths?


I’m guesstimating 45 or so. Just want to make sure I’m not way off.

Also is it worth buying the 4 square 2 1/8” deep boxes? Or is the 4 square 1 1/2” adequate?




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[mike93lx]

How many boxes should I get for a 1000 sq ft apartment with 3br / 2bths?


I’m guesstimating 45 or so. Just want to make sure I’m not way off.

Also is it worth buying the 4 square 2 1/8” deep boxes? Or is the 4 square 1 1/2” adequate?




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That count seems reasonable to me.

Go deeper. If it fits, you won't regret it,

 

[branimal]

That count seems reasonable to me.



Go deeper. If it fits, you won't regret it,

Yeah you’re right. Pushing those outlets and switches back into the box with 12 ga wire resisting you becomes tedious on your hands.

Thanks!



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[teamextreme]

They were always called mud-rings when I was in the trade. We always used mud-ring sizes to match the drywall, ie; 1/2" ring for 1/2" drywall. I've seen others recommend the 1/8" upsize on this site in the past and it makes some sense since they never seem to come out flush. However, if that's the "correct" way, then it begs the question, what size drywall are you using 1/2" mud-rings on? I'm sure they may make 3/8" drywall, but you won't find it at a box store and I've never seen it in use other than maybe a second layer on plaster or something like that. But you'll find a bazillion 1/2" mud-rings in those same box stores. Makes you think....

Moral of the story, I think the 1/8" upsize is probably a neat trick, a possibly a "better" way to do it, but you can't say doing it the other way is "wrong", when clearly that's how they're being installed.

BTW, Raco's website refers to them as mud-rings.

 

[grounded-b]

I concur - go with a ring rated 1/8" deeper than the drywall you're putting up. It just works better that way.

Also, I agree, they are ALL called plaster rings.... square to round, 1 gang, 2 gang, round to round, drywall, etc.

(JW with state masters credentials. 35 years in the trade)

 

[alfredeneuman]

Before I got my contractor's license, I was a PM for a commercial contractor, and had to order materials for all the crews, to be delivered the next morning

When I ordered 3/4" Plaster rings, the foremen would complain when they got round ones instead of square. Ordering switch rings or device rings solved that problem.

 

[Aceman]

They were always called mud-rings when I was in the trade. We always used mud-ring sizes to match the drywall, ie; 1/2" ring for 1/2" drywall. I've seen others recommend the 1/8" upsize on this site in the past and it makes some sense since they never seem to come out flush. However, if that's the "correct" way, then it begs the question, what size drywall are you using 1/2" mud-rings on? I'm sure they may make 3/8" drywall, but you won't find it at a box store and I've never seen it in use other than maybe a second layer on plaster or something like that. But you'll find a bazillion 1/2" mud-rings in those same box stores. Makes you think....

Moral of the story, I think the 1/8" upsize is probably a neat trick, a possibly a "better" way to do it, but you can't say doing it the other way is "wrong", when clearly that's how they're being installed.

BTW, Raco's website refers to them as mud-rings.

No where in the manufacturers literature or brochures have I seen mud ring manufacturers advocating mud ring size needs to match wall covering thickness. As you know, they offer several different depths for various wall thicknesses and sheathing types. Installers choice on which one to use.

The few times I've used a 1/2" ring on 1/2" drywall, I'm lucky to get the ring within a 1/4" of the surface due to the sheetrock sitting on the 8/32 mud ring screws combined with framing that never seems to be totally flat and true.

If the mud ring sits more than a 1/4" below the finished surface, you must correct it or use arc shields to bring it out flush to meet the requirements of 314.20.

So, I wouldn't say using 1/8" deeper rings is a "neat" trick, it's more of a necessity to deal with irregular framing surfaces and variances in how the sheetrock is installed combined with the mud ring screws holding the sheetrock away from the box.

 

[teamextreme]

Mud rings, plaster rings, switch rings, device rings, call them whatever you want, but those are all generic terms that still don't define the part enough to get what you want. You need a modifier in front of whatever locally used term you want to use; that being; single gang, 2 gang, 4-0, 3-0. That will define what parts show up. ie; single gang plaster ring.

I'm definitely remembering the upsize next time I use mud rings. I just wish I discovered this a couple years ago before I sheeted my new shop.

 

[Jim greengo]

Before I got my contractor's license, I was a PM for a commercial contractor, and had to order materials for all the crews, to be delivered the next morning

When I ordered 3/4" Plaster rings, the foremen would complain when they got round ones instead of square. Ordering switch rings or device rings solved that problem.

That's why you tell them single gang or 2 gang depending on what you're working on.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I ordered Single gang plaster rings from GE Supply (a Worldwide supplier), and about 1/2 the time they showed up being round.
You never addressed my question about CA,AZ etc.
I answered yours. Now answer mine

 

[grounded-b]

I ordered Single gang plaster rings from GE Supply (a Worldwide supplier), and about 1/2 the time they showed up being round.

The counterman at that GESCO is stupid then.

There are 4 basic type of plaster rings - single gang, 2 gang, square to round and round to round. You must specify what you want, along with the depth and box size ( 4" , 4 11/16" or 4" octagon)

Then there are "tile rings" - made with squared off edges for tile and masonry work.

The third, most uncommon type of ring is a "multi-gang ring" made for special boxes, 2 to 10 devices. (#802 THRU #810)

 

[Jim greengo]

I ordered Single gang plaster rings from GE Supply (a Worldwide supplier), and about 1/2 the time they showed up being round.
You never addressed my question about CA,AZ etc.
I answered yours. Now answer mine

What was your question? I didnt read all the posts.
I've done work in the carmel/Monterrey area of cal, and in Phoenix areas years ago.

 

[Jim greengo]

The counterman at that GESCO is stupid then.

There are 4 basic type of plaster rings - single gang, 2 gang, square to round and round to round. You must specify what you want, along with the depth and box size ( 4" , 4 11/16" or 4" octagon)

Then there are "tile rings" - made with squared off edges for tile and masonry work.

The third, most uncommon type of ring is a "multi-gang ring" made for special boxes, 2 to 10 devices. (#802 THRU #810)

 

[alfredeneuman]

The counterman at that GESCO is stupid then.

I didn't deal with the counterman. I dealt with the Inside Salesman, that serviced our account....and he was stellar.

 

[grounded-b]

I didn't deal with the counterman. I dealt with the Inside Salesman, that serviced our account....and he was stellar.

Obviously not stellar.

 

[alfredeneuman]

What was your question? I didnt read all the posts.

That's your fault. Post #15

 

[mm08822]

How many boxes should I get for a 1000 sq ft apartment with 3br / 2bths?


I’m guesstimating 45 or so. Just want to make sure I’m not way off.

Also is it worth buying the 4 square 2 1/8” deep boxes? Or is the 4 square 1 1/2” adequate?

You first need a floor plan with electrical outlets (lighting and recepts) and switches established. This will help ensure you meet code before starting work than rather having to add/change after all installed.

Then determine cable routing into/out of each box as needed. Based upon the routing you will be able to calculate the box fill which tells you the minimum box size needed. You can then also get a count on mudrings needed.

Always order more, but know what you need first. (Plan the work, work the plan.)

 

[Jim greengo]

How many of these states do you have a license for?
Were you working as an employee, or just doing side work?
...or all of these states "behind my house"
(BTW the San Joaquin Valley in CA is often referred to as the "Breadbasket of the World")

My Nebraska /Iowa and south Dakota contractor licenses reciprocate with most states around the midwest.
Our work out in western states was done under another contractors license who I pull permits for when he does big commercial jobs in Nebraska and iowa.

 

[Jim greengo]

That's your fault. Post #15

There I answered it for ya professor,happy now?

 

[Jim greengo]

You first need a floor plan with electrical outlets (lighting and recepts) and switches established. This will help ensure you meet code before starting work than rather having to add/change after all installed.

Then determine cable routing into/out of each box as needed. Based upon the routing you will be able to calculate the box fill which tells you the minimum box size needed. You can then also get a count on mudrings needed.

Always order more, but know what you need first. (Plan the work, work the plan.)

What he said. It depends on if you're trying to do the bare minimum,or if you want to make look like you thought things out and tried to make things look good.
I prefer to beyond the minimum myself and make things look good myself anyway.

 

[Jim greengo]

Obviously not stellar.

Yep,obviously a break down in communication between him and the guy he deals with.
Somebody isn't asking enough questions.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Our work out in western states was done under another contractors license

Using another contractor's license # is and always has been illegal in CA.

 

[Jim greengo]

Using another contractor's license # is and always has been illegal in CA.

As long as the other contractor is on site the inspectors didnt seem to have trouble with us working out there.
All the work was signed off and inspected.
It must really **** walking around all day with nothing to do but be miserable.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Any contractor has to list himself and a list of subs when applying for a permit.
In CA any job worth $500 or more is required to be done by a licensed contractor.
You could have just said you were an employee and be done with it without the embellishments

Why would I be miserable? My motto is "What, me worry?"

 

[Jim greengo]

Any contractor has to list himself and a list of subs when applying for a permit.
In CA any job worth $500 or more is required to be done by a licensed contractor.
You could have just said you were an employee and be done with it without the embellishments

Why would I be miserable? My motto is "What, me worry?"

I haven't been any bodies employee since 1996 professor,when his guys come here I do the same thing for them on jobs.
That's what you do when you know people and have friends in differant areas.
You should probably stick with being a gofor and ordering the wrong parts and blaming it on others.