Not impressed with new Channellocks quality

[dwasifar]

Okay, I'm putting on my flame-retardant asbestos underwear, 'cuz I know this is gonna generate a lot of heat from the Channellocks fans here, but: I bought a 3-pack of Channellocks and I am not super impressed. I don't see why the fandom.

This set comes with 12", 9.5", and 6.5":

Overall they just seem sloppily made.

Every one of them has this mark on it:

I understand that's where they hang them to dip them in rust protection, but if you look at that one, it's starting to rust right at that spot. The coating is just slopped on leaving drips and rings all over the tool. If they have to hang them, why don't they hang them from the handles where it'd be covered by the grips?

The nose of the 12" has an overbite:

I know some people are gonna say these are not precision instruments, but it would have been so easy to have ground them flat so you can grab, say, the protruding end of a nail.

The 9.5" jaws are two different thicknesses altogether:

I wish I'd been able to get good pictures of the hills and valleys in the grinding marks on the big one, but it was too glarey. As to operation, you'll have to take my word that they're sloppy and loose except when they bind.

So I went out looking at every other brand I could find. Everything at their price point looked better made, and there were some that looked better made even at a lower price. Harbor Freight's Doyle pliers, made in Taiwan, come in at a little over half the price and look better made. Tekton is priced about equal to CL and looks better. Even Menard's house-brand Masterforce pliers, made in China, look better, although I don't think they have the jaw capacity and I have doubts about the steel. And, yes, almost every other brand has the tips meeting better than the CL pair shown here, even the cheap Husky and Kobalt sets. The only one sloppier was Menard's bargain basement "Tool Shop" brand.

In the end I decided to give the Milwaukee groove joint pliers a shot. Everyone seems to like them, they're a couple bucks cheaper, and I've been impressed with other Milwaukee hand tools lately.

I try to buy American, but when the Taiwan products are better made for a lower price, it makes me wonder if we just can't compete. I'm sure some of you guys are already lighting the charcoal for me, but this is what I'm seeing.

 

[archirelic]

Return them if you're not impressed with them. Problem solved.

 

[dwasifar]

Return them if you're not impressed with them. Problem solved.

I plan to. But I thought this forum was to discuss tools. Is this somehow not worthy of discussion?

 

[njride]

I see your complaints, but as far as pulling nails with channel locks, that is kind of so far from their intended use its irrelevant. Yes they do rust and patina pretty quickly in the real world, but damn ive got pairs older than me, heavily used with still sharp jaws, still good grips, and they are priced very reasonably. I have a pair with smooth jaws that work awesome to twist big coolant hoses and break the corrosion bond without marring the hose, used originally i guess for oacal conduit in corrosive environments, i think i accidently long term borrowed it from someone a while back.

 

[AS556]

I've got 5-6 pairs of CL brand that I like and use pretty heavily. They're a bit crude but for the price point and US steel I'll take them over other options.

The Doyle T&Gs are Chinese, BTW. I wish they were Taiwanese I'd buy a bunch of them.

Go Knipex if you want high end T&G.

 

[Parrothead]

I’m not overly impressed either. I’ve got them, but had to exchange mine for some that didn’t have the same flaws yours did. It took looking through the entire hook to find a good pair.

I like my Wilde (USA)/Tekton (USA) better.

 

[dwasifar]

The Doyle T&Gs are Chinese, BTW. I wish they were Taiwanese I'd buy a bunch of them.

The ones I looked at today said Made In Taiwan on the package.

 

[AS556]

The ones I looked at today said Made In Taiwan on the package.

IIRC the slip joints, dykes and few others were but not the channellocks.

I'll go check tomorrow. I hope they changed the COO!

The Chicom 12 and 16" Doyle's I have work well for what they are. The 12" is much better fit than my 16" though.

 

[Yarpo]

Okay, I'm putting on my flame-retardant asbestos underwear, 'cuz I know this is gonna generate a lot of heat from the Channellocks fans here, but: I bought a 3-pack of Channellocks and I am not super impressed. I don't see why the fandom.

This set comes with 12", 9.5", and 6.5":

The 9.5" jaws are two different thicknesses altogether:

**** I've got a pair of channel locks and the jaws look exactly like yours do on the 9.5, it's so not even close that I figured it had to have been designed that way Either way I think the appeal is cheap, useable, American made tools. My misaligned pliers have been in use for years now without issue. Depending on what you do the issues described don't really affect use much. I've been a plumber and a mechanic, and never once had an issue with channellocks for various tasks in those trades. Everyone's got a pair (Tho now people are moving over to Knipex more and more) I'm not trying to defend them, there's a few people who absolutely hate them and think their quality is going downhill and they may be onto something. That said everyone has a bad batch of tools for one reason or another.

 

[dwasifar]

IIRC the slip joints, dykes and few others were but not the channellocks.

I'll go check tomorrow. I hope they changed the COO!

Knowing HF they probably have both in the pipeline.

 

[Tallpilot]

I’m not overly impressed either. I’ve got them, but had to exchange mine for some that didn’t have the same flaws yours did. It took looking through the entire hook to find a good pair.

I like my Wilde (USA)/Tekton (USA) better.

I agree. I have some CL in my box but Wilde, Knipex, Vampire, Snap-On all make better stuff.

 

[visionguru]

....
I try to buy American, but when the Taiwan products are better made for a lower price, it makes me wonder if we just can't compete. I'm sure some of you guys are already lighting the charcoal for me, but this is what I'm seeing.

I have about 10 pairs of Channellock pliers. I agree with you, many cheaper Chinese/Taiwan pliers seem better in terms of workmanship.

Channellocks are just on the crude side and with outdated design. I guess they haven't updated equipments and adopted new designs for a long long time. The reason: money. These hand tools just don't generate enough profit for them to do so. They just make ends meet.

Basically, Chinese/Taiwan manufacturers tend to have state-of-the-art equipments, low labor cost. It's not just the dollar/hour rates, the health care cost is astronomical for the employers. We simply cannot compete in making these low profit margin products.

 

[dwasifar]

I agree with you, many cheaper Chinese/Taiwan pliers seem better in terms of workmanship.

Channellocks are just on the crude side and with outdated design.

"Crude." Thank you, that is the word I was looking for and couldn't quite find.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I have 4 of the new coated cls and none of em nor any others on the shelf had that issue (I check all pairs of everything to find the best ones)

 

[Wamsutta]

Selling American made tools at a discounted price doesn't work. Craftsman tried doing that. Channellock needs to get into a different marketing segment.

 

[Tonyuk]

But they're made in the US of A?

Surely they're perfect in every way.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

Selling American made tools at a discounted price doesn't work. Craftsman tried doing that. Channellock needs to get into a different marketing segment.

Agreed. U.S tool manufacturers should aim for higher quality and price. Competitive price but U.S made tools dont need to compete with Taiwan or Chinese price points. People will, and likely always will, pay some type of premium for US tools.

Now there was a time of US craftsman that were great, Sears should have never betrayed the brand after reaching that sweet spot. I dont contribute cmans failure to the cman team themselves as much as I blame Sears.

As anyways I own an assortment of pliers, my go to seem to have become a pair of Irwin's. I do intend to purchase a set of knipex some day though

 

[alcorelli]

I have used CL for over 35yrs. The 348 model was my favorite electrical plier. Probably have a dozen of those it more.
But this is about slip joint or water pump pliers... Channellocks.
All of my old "Channellocks" are still in use. The 4 inch minis are in each tool pouch (HVAC, hi eff boiler tech), and get used many times a day. I don't care about patina, but they do aquire a nice finish after a year or two.

I will agree that the newer CL tools are of inferior in fit and finish compared to tools purchased years ago.

I have some Knipex and Milwaukee and like them, but am too old school to.swap over all of them.



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[Handyandy23]

Selling American made tools at a discounted price doesn't work. Craftsman tried doing that. Channellock needs to get into a different marketing segment.

Agreed. U.S tool manufacturers should aim for higher quality and price. Competitive price but U.S made tools dont need to compete with Taiwan or Chinese price points. People will, and likely always will, pay some type of premium for US tools.

I don't know if I agree with this. Channellock seems to sell very well locally where I am, and I see a lot more people with CL than Knipex or Snap On pliers (or any other high dollar ones). There's a balance point between price and quality where you find value, and I don't necessarily think in pliers you need visual perfection.

I can get Channellock's locally for half the price of a comparable Knipex, or less. And a lot better selection. They're regularly on sale at Canadian Tire for 25% off, and they have probably 40+ different models stocked at all times. Knipex I can get at double the price locally, but that's only on the models that are stocked regularly, which isn't very many (maybe a dozen tops). For example, the 10" Cobras are stocked at Home Depot for $41, but the 5" Cobras are online only and $70 CAD. A comparable set of 6.5" tongue and groove CL's is $15 CAD and on the peg in store.

There are is a small part of the population that will even recognize if a tool is US-made or not, and an even smaller part of that subset that would want to pay Snap On prices for Channellocks with a shinier finish or perfectly matching jaws. The steel that CL uses is a lot harder than the cheap import stuff, and the handles last a lot longer and don't slip or spin. They are comfortable to hold and use, and bite hard.

To me they fill a good part of the market where I can buy a quality US-made tool that just gets the job done, without having to shell out $500 in pliers to have in my home garage for "premium" ones. No offense, but almost all of the CL complaints in the OP and other posts are tool polishing gripes. You're worried about a small blemish in a non-permanent coating that will be scratched off in minutes of actual use? Or a millimeter overbite on the end of the jaws you don't use to grab anything? Give me a break.

 

[dwasifar]

I see what you're saying, and I predicted there would be responses saying these things are unimportant. And aside from the jaws not meeting properly (which is a concern because the tool is slightly less all-purpose that way), you're right that they are finish issues.

I guess what bugs me about it is that we all want to believe American made products are still superior, and I can't look at these and believe that. Yeah, they work, but they're sloppy and crude and don't show any pride in craft. If the quality difference was in the other direction, as it used to be - if it was the foreign product that had the lesser fit and finish - we would all immediately point to those flaws as evidence of poor craftsmanship and dismiss the tools as inferior junk. This is a double standard, and I think it's allowing American makers to be sloppy with quality, because Made In USA gets a bye on issues that would be met more critically otherwise.

 

[dnschmidt]

I too have given up on Channellock although it pains me to do so. Having personal access to TOPTUL's pliers when I sold them caused me to look at Channellock as being past their prime. Two comments: One is that I went to the Channellock factory in PA and it's old, really old. The second comment was made to me by a Channellock representative at the SEMA show when I asked him why the didn't make Vise-Grips since the Irwin version are so awful. He, told me we can't find enough of people to keep up with demand for the stuff we already have. So being located in a rather dumpy city in the rust belt where people that are willing to work in a foundry are apparently hard to find could explain a lot of the current Channellock situation.

 

[Handyandy23]

I see what you're saying, and I predicted there would be responses saying these things are unimportant. And aside from the jaws not meeting properly (which is a concern because the tool is slightly less all-purpose that way), you're right that they are finish issues.

I guess what bugs me about it is that we all want to believe American made products are still superior, and I can't look at these and believe that. Yeah, they work, but they're sloppy and crude and don't show any pride in craft. If the quality difference was in the other direction, as it used to be - if it was the foreign product that had the lesser fit and finish - we would all immediately point to those flaws as evidence of poor craftsmanship and dismiss the tools as inferior junk. This is a double standard, and I think it's allowing American makers to be sloppy with quality, because Made In USA gets a bye on issues that would be met more critically otherwise.

I just think it needs to have perspective as well. Just because it's "Made in USA" doesn't mean you're getting the best of the best. You still get what you pay for. You can't buy a relatively cheap set of Channellocks and expect absolute perfection, because it's just not reasonable in the price range.

A set of 12" CL's is $15 on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-440-12-Inch-Tongue-Groove/dp/B00004SBCU/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=channellock&qid=1561383547&s=gateway&sr=8-5

And a similar set of Snap On pliers is $50:
https://store.snapon.com/Tongue-and-Groove-Pliers-Adjustable-Joint-Straight-Serrated-Jaws-12-3-4--P641008.aspx

A somewhat similar slip joint type plier from Knipex is $35:
https://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-Tools-12-Inch-Cobra-Pliers/dp/B000X4J2HU/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=knipex+cobra+12+inch&qid=1561383800&s=gateway&sr=8-1

So basically what you want is a pair of US-made pliers that are made of high grade steel, but also aesthetically perfect, for 1/4-1/3 the price of what other premium pliers are selling for? It just doesn't seem realistic. It's like buying a Ford Focus and complaining that the car drives and functions nicely, but the interior fit and finish quality isn't on par with a Mercedes E-class.

I'm also not sure the 'overbite' of the jaw is something that any manufacturer of tongue and groove pliers can get perfect, although I'll admit I've never looked that closely at any of mine. Depending on what groove you're in, the pivot point is moving, so the jaw alignment in that direction is going to change with each groove. At best I don't think this type of plier was ever designed to use the end to flush grab things - they are for adjusting to different diameters of round (or other shapes I suppose) objects and grabbing them in the jaws.

 

[American Locomotive]

The problem is many American tool manufacturers are still using horrifically antiquated production lines that are expensive to run and maintain, and require a lot of manual labor. Many European and Asian manufactures are using extremely modern, highly automated facilities that are capable of pumping out high quality tools at low costs.

European and Japanese companies have carved a niche for themselves by producing high quality tools at mid-range prices. The remaining American companies are having a race to the bottom, trying to compete with Asian production lines and equipment that are 40 years newer. Or they go the other way (like SnapOn) and charge outrageously high prices.

 

[JBH]

I guess what bugs me about it is that we all want to believe American made products are still superior,

Letting go of that provincial illusion is a good first step! It’s important, I think, to be clear-eyed about competitiveness. The alternative is delusion and further relative decline. That’s not helpful to our economy, because low domestic standards means American companies lose incentive to made world class products. That can send us down bad rabbit holes, such as tax increases (“tariffs”) on people with higher standards.

I was done with Channellock when the two different plastics on a pair of 7” side cutter handles started separating. That has never happened to me with Knipex, Gedore, Stahlwille/VBW, Klein, or Wiha. They’re not even relatively less expensive. The Channellock E337CB are about $25 on Amazon today. KC Tool has a pair of Gedore 180mm side cutters with comfort grips for $21.73.

https://www.kctoolco.com/gedore-8314-180-jc-side-cutter-180-mm/

 

[dwasifar]

The problem is many American tool manufacturers are still using horrifically antiquated production lines that are expensive to run and maintain, and require a lot of manual labor. Many European and Asian manufactures are using extremely modern, highly automated facilities that are capable of pumping out high quality tools at low costs.

European and Japanese companies have carved a niche for themselves by producing high quality tools at mid-range prices. The remaining American companies are having a race to the bottom, trying to compete with Asian production lines and equipment that are 40 years newer. Or they go the other way (like SnapOn) and charge outrageously high prices.

I think that is exactly right. I've seen videos of the Channellock production line, and it looks like something out of the 1930s - dirty and manual. And the guys are rushing through the work. That's probably the reason right there.

 

[dwasifar]

So basically what you want is a pair of US-made pliers that are made of high grade steel, but also aesthetically perfect, for 1/4-1/3 the price of what other premium pliers are selling for? It just doesn't seem realistic. It's like buying a Ford Focus and complaining that the car drives and functions nicely, but the interior fit and finish quality isn't on par with a Mercedes E-class.

No, what I want is a pair of US-made pliers that are made at least as well as the comparable foreign pliers at the same price point. It's more like buying a Focus and complaining that the fit and finish isn't on par with a Civic. (Which it isn't, but that's another story, and moot anyway now that Ford is abandoning the US passenger car market except for the Mustang.)

 

[dwasifar]

Letting go of that provincial illusion is a good first step! It’s important, I think, to be clear-eyed about competitiveness. The alternative is delusion and further relative decline. That’s not helpful to our economy, because low domestic standards means American companies lose incentive to made world class products. That can send us down bad rabbit holes, such as tax increases (“tariffs”) on people with higher standards.

I'll go with you on this. Funny, I've been driving Japanese branded cars for years with no cognitive dissonance about abandoning the American brands, but when it comes to hand tools, something just sticks in my craw. Maybe because it's so basic.

 

[mikehaugen]

I've not seen the channellock video, but if it's something put out by channellock take it with a grain of salt. I've seen videos put out by various knife manufacturers that portray their factories to be these dark, dungonous looking caverns with dirty-faced workers to try to add drama or some kind of "American hard worker" image. I guarantee in real life any manufacturing plant in the U.S. would not function that way.

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[Dakkyz]

The way I see it, you get what you paid for I paid £15 for a channel lock set water pump pliers, adjustable wrench and locking pliers. while I paid £30~ for knipex and Gedore.

 

[dwasifar]

I've not seen the channellock video, but if it's something put out by channellock take it with a grain of salt. I've seen videos put out by various knife manufacturers that portray their factories to be these dark, dungonous looking caverns with dirty-faced workers to try to add drama or some kind of "American hard worker" image. I guarantee in real life any manufacturing plant in the U.S. would not function that way.

Well, judge for yourself:

 

[mikehaugen]

Well, judge for yourself:

Thanks for the link.

Well it's not quite what I expected as far as the actual video production... to be honest though it is about what I expected as far as the manufacturing process goes.

I'm not sure what is so antiquated about it, theres only so many ways to forge steel and new fancy equipment with touchscreens and flashing lights does not make a better product.

I am an industrial mechanic in a corrugated box plant. We have equipment everywhere from the 1960's to 2016 and while the newer stuff with all of the bells and whistles looks cool and makes the machine operator's job much easier it does not make a better product. It also comes at a cost, as fewer and fewer people are able to diagnose them... but I'm okay with that as it keeps me in high demand.

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[finn]

I take it most of you have never been in a foundry or forge shop.

These are hot, noisy, dirty workplaces, exactly the types of places that are being outsourced to third world countries where labor is cheap. The video isn’t much different than the facilities I have seen in Europe.

 

[dwasifar]

Thanks for the link.

Well it's not quite what I expected as far as the actual video production... to be honest though it is about what I expected as far as the manufacturing process goes.

I'm not sure what is so antiquated about it, theres only so many ways to forge steel and new fancy equipment with touchscreens and flashing lights does not make a better product.

I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know what the Taiwan factories look like, but seeing the guys leaning into grinding belts and shaping pliers by eyeball, or the lady locking pliers in a vise and whacking them with a hammer... well, that's not how I'd pictured 21st century manufacturing. I bet a lot of the hand work shown in that video is automated in the Asian and German factories.

For contrast, I visited the Kohler factory in Wisconsin recently. It's in transition. There's still a lot of hand work going on for low-volume products, but the bread-and-butter products are produced with industrial robots.

I take it most of you have never been in a foundry or forge shop.

These are hot, noisy, dirty workplaces, exactly the types of places that are being outsourced to third world countries where labor is cheap. The video isn’t much different than the facilities I have seen in Europe.

Yep, the Kohler factory was like that; but they still have automation and better quality control.

 

[Handyandy23]

No, what I want is a pair of US-made pliers that are made at least as well as the comparable foreign pliers at the same price point. It's more like buying a Focus and complaining that the fit and finish isn't on par with a Civic. (Which it isn't, but that's another story, and moot anyway now that Ford is abandoning the US passenger car market except for the Mustang.)

Putting the car analogies aside - what can you get for the same price as the Channellocks (say ~$15 range) that are better? And let's talk functionally - how comfortable are they to use, how do the grips hold up, how hard are the teeth, etc?

Comparing to similarly priced options (wherever they are manufactured) you might find ones with a 'nicer finish', but compare them for what they are supposed to be used for.

I've had lots of cheaper pliers from Canadian Tire / Mastercraft, and Princess Auto (Canadian HF-level tool stores) and the Channellocks are a substantial upgrade for me. The cheaper ones were soft, handles came off, hinges wore out prematurely and/or just broke, etc.

I'm not a "Made in USA" tool thumper, if anything I keep a much more open mind about 'value' brands than most on here. I own and use a lot of foreign made tools, a lot more than US-made tools. As a DIYer I just look out for value because I can't afford to spend thousands on truck brand tools for home use. And after going through a lot of worse options over time, I've settled on the CL's because they do seem to provide good relative value. But if you're comparing quality to pliers that cost several times as much, that's apples to oranges. And same if you're comparing to other similarly priced pliers just based on how shiny they are in the package.

 

[dwasifar]

It's a valid point. How will the competing products last and perform? Obviously, without trying them, I have no personal experience to go on. So I have to rely on two things: 1) whether they appear to be good quality, and 2) the experiences of others.

Whether they appear to be good quality is what we're discussing here. You're dismissing my complaints as finish issues and therefore trivial and irrelevant. But they look to me like evidence of cutting corners, and in my general experience the cut corners you see are a clue that there are others you don't.

The experiences of others come mainly from the internet. User reviews on merchant websites like Home Depot or Amazon. Videos from people who care enough about pliers or whatever to do video reviews. And again, discussions like this one. There are already a few people in this thread who've ditched Channellock for similar reasons.

I should also point out that the Tekton pliers look and feel better than the CL's, and those are made in USA at about the same price point. Why can Tekton do it while CL, who invented the darn things, can't? The only reason I didn't buy the Tekton was the bolt.

 

[American Locomotive]

I'm not sure what is so antiquated about it, theres only so many ways to forge steel and new fancy equipment with touchscreens and flashing lights does not make a better product.

It's not so much the forging process that's antiquated. Forging is forging, and it's always going to need fire and big heavy presses.

It's everything else after that's hilarious antiquated. Look at the "Punch Press" portion, where the pin hole is punched. You had a guy sitting there putting each piece in, holding in place with a piece of wood, and then punching it. Yes he was fast, but an automated sorting system and robot could do that completely autonomously without the need to pay someone $25/hour + benefits.

Then you had the jaw milling. Where they were literally manually milling the jaws in an ancient manual horizontal milling machine. Get a modern machine with a robot pallet loader and it'll mill 50 jaws at once, automatically unload the old ones, and load the new blanks in.

Same thing with the operation that puts the pliers together, and then mushrooms over the pin. That's something that could definitely be automated.

Just look at these videos from Knipex. The forging process is still manual, but everything from the assembly, to heat treating, to final finish grinding is all automated. This is how European companies stay relevant:

For contrast, I visited the Kohler factory in Wisconsin recently. It's in transition. There's still a lot of hand work going on for low-volume products, but the bread-and-butter products are produced with industrial robots.

Exactly. Every time a human hand needs to touch a part, you add cost and a greater chance for something to go wrong.

 

[Handyandy23]

Yeah fair enough, I am a fan of Tekton overall, and I'm sure they make good pliers too at a similar price point. Channellock's are a few dollars cheaper for me just because I can buy them locally versus going the Amazon route for Tekton.

Reading the Amazon reviews on the Tekton's I did see a complaint about finish issues, saying the pair they got had a small dent and a scratch, and they even specifically said the Channellock's seem to have slightly better finish. So not sure they'd be coming in much more aesthetically perfect than the CL's, but like anything I'm sure it's hit and miss.

To me the finish issues aren't important because I feel like they are purposely sold in a relatively 'rough and unfinished' state. Any coating is just an anti-corrosion coating that won't last. They're not necessarily meant to be judged on how perfect they look and likely aren't treated like an A-class surface in manufacturing (probably big bins these are tossed into before doing assembly work, etc).

And speaking of user reviews on Amazon, the Channellock 440's have a user rating of 4.8/5 stars with over 760 reviews! That is pretty darn good! Usually on Amazon reviews you can tell pretty quickly which products have spotty QC, and ones with that number of positive reviews and ratings that high generally speaks to a very solid product.

 

[Handyandy23]

It's not so much the forging process that's antiquated. Forging is forging, and it's always going to need fire and big heavy presses.

It's everything else after that's hilarious antiquated. Look at the "Punch Press" portion, where the pin hole is punched. You had a guy sitting there putting each piece in, holding in place with a piece of wood, and then punching it. Yes he was fast, but an automated sorting system and robot could do that completely autonomously without the need to pay someone $25/hour + benefits.

Then you had the jaw milling. Where they were literally manually milling the jaws in an ancient manual horizontal milling machine. Get a modern machine with a robot pallet loader and it'll mill 50 jaws at once, automatically unload the old ones, and load the new blanks in.

Same thing with the operation that puts the pliers together, and then mushrooms over the pin. That's something that could definitely be automated.

Just look at these videos from Knipex. The forging process is still manual, but everything from the assembly, to heat treating, to final finish grinding is all automated. This is how European companies stay relevant:

Exactly. Every time a human hand needs to touch a part, you add cost and a greater chance for something to go wrong.

To play devil's advocate, at least the manual operations keep more people employed. Blue collar manufacturing jobs are almost extinct because everything is automated.

I'd also say there's plenty of risk for things to go wrong in automated processes. I work in a production plant and I see it every day. The tooling and robotics is only as good as the design and error proofing allow it. There's definitely less variation than with human operators, but there's also far fewer 'quality gates' or opportunities to catch errors. And when there are errors, there's usually a long chain of them, as opposed to recognizing the first one off as bad and doing something to fix it.

All that said though, I agree it makes it hard for Channellock to compete with more automated companies when it comes to dollars and cents. More people plus slower production rates equals a lot higher cost in running the business and producing tools.

 

[mikehaugen]

To play devil's advocate, at least the manual operations keep more people employed. Blue collar manufacturing jobs are almost extinct because everything is automated.

This is almost exactly how I was going to respond... I mean who do they think is going to buy tools when there are no "blue collar" people left?

Nobody automates a plant to make a better product (with the exception of maybe some cnc equipment, but that isn't even necessarily true), they do it to make a plant more efficient, and less workers to employ.

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[mikehaugen]

So I apologize, my replies have been a bit off the original topic. Tbh... I'm not super impressed with cl tongue and groove pliers. I do actually prefer knipex for the thinner head profile and sharper/longer lasting teeth... but with that said (like many others have stated) I do believe they are an excellent value, especially for an American made tool. I will always have multiple pairs of them around, even if they aren't the first ones I grab all of the time. But if/when they decide to start outsourcing, they are the first brand I will drop.

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