Move over Snap-on have a viable competitor for ratchets

[impactims]

Question though: are you writing from experience or are you taking their written policy at face value while conceding that other companies do not adequately enforce their own written policies?

Are you just truly terrible at using tools, or is your side hustle dumpster diving and exploiting lax warranty policy enforcement?

1-I do not speak from experience with koken's warranty service nor to I take their written policy at face value. I never even read it since written warranties are meaningless in the tool world. I simply did a google search to read about other folks experience with their warranty.....the only way to really tell what their warranty service is like. And it does not look good, very hit and miss.

2-I beat the piss out of certain tools out of necessity.

3-Yes I receive warranty service for tools I did not buy new. This service is offered to me, and I have accepted it. Why wouldn't I? Am I supposed to tell my dealer not to extend this service to me because it's against the rules? Please....

 

[M6erfan]

Looks like CrazyTools didn't last long

 

[measuredtwice]

Supposedly, I get my Ko-ken ratchet tomorrow. I would have gotten it today but Amazon shipped it DHL to a PO Box. DHL doesn't deliver to PO Boxes so they called me today.

Looking forward to adding the ratchet to my growing collection of things I bought because of GarageJournal---haha!

 

[impactims]

The warranty abuse is so rampant these days it's not even considered immoral or criminal by many, folks will gloat about their wrought's openly on a public forum as if your stupid if your not doing it. F-K that! I buy tools these days with self warranty in mind, buying tools with great warranty just means your paying 20%-50%+ more for the tool initially that you may never claim on. This money you've handed over often pays for the tools of shady warranty abusers who are experts at milking the system. Its a mugs game. Tool truck tools msrp not a 100's of % markup on production cost, its more like 1000's %markup. A tool truck ratchet that sells for $200 wouldn't cost more than $10 to produce. I'll pass on the warranty thanx.

Have you EVER heard of a s-o franchise owner looking into wether or not the tool owner that is seeking warranty service is the original purchaser?

I have NEVER seen this out of any tool truck brand...s-o or otherwise. And I have had a lot of tool trucks.

It probably comes down to this....if an s-o dealers says "Uh, sorry, unless you can show me that you are the original purchaser I can not extend warranty service to you"......then this s-o dealer will loose customers. It is not in his best interest in the long run. From a business stand point it is best to take care of people because those guys buying used, will buy new stuff too.

 

[impactims]

Snap-on’s tolerance of warranty fraud is a problem for honest customers.

How do you define fraud? How do you define honest?

If a franchise owner decides to give warranty service without looking into the history of the tools and customers accept this service, is there really any fraud or dishonesty going on?

 

[JBH]

If a franchise owner decides to give warranty service without looking into the history of the tools and customers accept this service, is there really any fraud or dishonesty going on?

Dishonesty on the claimant's part, certainly. As for fraud, in the colloquial sense sure, but in the legal sense, it depends.

 

[impactims]

Dishonesty on the claimant's part, certainly. As for fraud, in the colloquial sense sure, but in the legal sense, it depends.

If the franchise owner says that he does not care that I bought it used, then there is no dishonesty or fraud that I can tell and I am certainly not going to feel guilty.

 

[impactims]

Uh, Guys, this is about Koken tools. I'd appreciate it if you want to talk Snap-on warranty policies, you either search out one of the existing ones, or start your own thread about it.

Thanks to whichever moderator cleaned up the thread already!

I'm sorry, considering all the koken to snap on comparisons that you made in your opening post, not to mention thread title I thought the thread was as much about snap on as koken. Warranty service is a big part of tool decision making to most.

 

[measuredtwice]

If the franchise owner says that he does not care that I bought it used, then there is no dishonesty or fraud that I can tell and I am certainly not going to feel guilty.

Does he not care because he doesn't have to pay for it? Isn't it Snap-On that has to cover it, not the "franchise owner"?

 

[eyeball]

...However, there is objective evidence that Snapon quality superiority is at best overhyped. A German magazine did a lab test of 13mm wrenches. Here are some scans:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2713213&postcount=13



I expect you're too provincial to be able to read the test, so I'll leave you with this highlight...

Too provincial?

Given that less than 2% of the global population actually speaks much less reads German, that was a pretty weak jab. It really took away from what ever it was that you were trying to communicate.


- Please buy American made products when you can so I don’t have to learn Chinese -

 

[CR888]

Its not right & mostly honest modestly paid workers in the mechanical trade are paying for your privilege. It sounds like you know exactly what the policy is and how to best use its loopholes. Justify it to yourself however you want but deep down you know what's going on.

 

[clinebarger]

Uh, Guys, this is about Koken tools. I'd appreciate it if you want to talk Snap-on warranty policies, you either search out one of the existing ones, or start your own thread about it.

Thanks to whichever moderator cleaned up the thread already!

The thread title....."Move over Snap-on have a viable competitor for ratchets"

 

[impactims]

Does he not care because he doesn't have to pay for it? Isn't it Snap-On that has to cover it, not the "franchise owner"?

The franchise owner gets these kinds of instructions from a district manager who works for snap on directly. The district manager gets instructions from I don't know exactly who, but someone in the main office at snap on.

Whoever it is that is in charge of the district managers tells the district managers to instruct the franchise owners to provide warranty service whenever it is possible on hand tools be it original purchasers or someone buying used.

That's the story I get anyways, from my dealer.

 

[impactims]

Its not right & mostly honest modestly paid workers in the mechanical trade are paying for your privilege. It sounds like you know exactly what the policy is and how to best use its loopholes. Justify it to yourself however you want but deep down you know what's going on.

Tell that to the franchises and district managers that instruct them. Clearly you disagree with them and the way they choose to do business.

 

[CR888]

No I disagree with YOU, its well known the warranty is for original purchasers, you know this yet abuse the system because you get away with it. Honestly I'd rather not discuss, educate or use anymore of my time on you. Those who rely on SO tools to feed their family and depend on the warranty system would despise your actions. I'll just say it.....I don't like you.

 

[measuredtwice]

Just got it the 3/8 ratchet. Busy and haven't had time for anything except a quick look but I like it. And it is smmmooooooth.

 

[M6erfan]

Just got it the 3/8 ratchet. Busy and haven't had time for anything except a quick look but I like it. And it is smmmooooooth.

Nice, right? Let us know what you think after using it a bit.

 

[apdxyk]

The franchise owner gets these kinds of instructions from a district manager who works for snap on directly.

Utter bull. Either you don't know how the franchise works and what the legal structure is or you mislead intentionally.

Back to Ko-Ken: they ratchets are nice, the sockets are outstanding.

 

[Mr_John]

KoKen is not a full-line tool manufacturer, and aren't trying to do so. They specialize in socketry ratchets - that's about it. Saying they're a "mid-tier" tool manufacturer because they don't offer a digital torque wrench line is like saying Rolex is a "mid-tier" watch manufacturer because they still use mechanical movements and don't offer modern digital watches or electronic movements.

No, that's not the same. And as an aside, I'm wearing a watch right now with a mechanical movement. Mechanical movements are top tier, not the other way around, but I understand the general point that you're TRYING to make.

You've missed my point, or just ignored it. My point is that top end tool makers like Snapon, Matco, Wiha, PB Swiss, and yes, I'd say KTC as well -- and well, hard to exclude Gear Wrench at this point, but they have rather sophisticated line up that all include higher end torque tools, most have a digital variant showing their ability to move their tool line into the modern age. The fact that Koken SPECIALIZES mainly in sockets and ratchets seems to only make the fact they don't have digital torque wrenches in their line up even more glaring.

Don't you see the point -- Koken wants to make money, right? If Kokens are great ratchets, then to make more money, you expand into precision instruments, like digital torque wrenches.

So, no, the Rolex comparison is hardly the same... it takes A LOT of skill (and money - and sales numbers) to justify the expense of designing your very own mechanical movement. Actually, higher end watch makers often use ETA SA Swiss movements, that are just rebranded. The top watch makers, like Omega, Tag, Breitling and Rolex -- each design and manufacturer their own movements. That's one reason why they're "top tier' watch companies.

 

[Mr_John]

Comparing anything to Nepros' chrome is a waste of time. It is literally the nicest chrome I've ever seen on hand tools. It's like jewelry, and IMO, too nice to use. I had some Nepros pieces and sold them because I just knew I'd never use them. Got what I paid for them too

I hear ya on the tooth count and it's pointless to disagree, i mean swing arc is swing arc, but it hasn't been a big issue for me. Although there have been times when I needed a finer tooth ratchet. Truth is I use my M12 ratchet and impacts wherever I can, which is quite often.

I never have nor do claim that Ko-ken is the end all/be all of ratchets but they are my preference due to their buttery smooth feel. Better than any ratchet I've owned in that regard. I also think that Ko-ken is one of the best values out there for sockets. Strength, fit and finish, QC, design, are all world class at a fraction of the cost of the "truck brands". Just my $.02 of course...

Calling Ko-ken ratchets midrange "garbage" though is idiotic, in my opinion.

Nothing's perfect, certainly including Ko-ken. I'd like to see them knurl their sockets to aid with finger spinning and make the size markings a bit larger. The grip areas on their ratchets are a bit short, especially if you have larger hands.

Edit: FWIW, my favorite sockets are Hazet, but they're pretty pricey and hard to source here in the States. Although lately Amazon.de is making them more available at more reasonable prices.

FWIW, I'd have never guessed Hazets were your favorite sockets...

Most of the stuff manufactured in Japan is not garbage (btw, have you ever used ARS of Japan lawn products?). I think the KTC / Nepros stuff is gorgeous, but man, are they pricey when you consider the fact the warranty is a bit of a concern. I've been reading the back and forths on the warranty issues, but let me just say -- warranty isn't a big deal on cheap Chinese tools, but when you start spending $100 on a ratchet, you like to have an "insurance policy." And, Snapon does honor its lifetime warranty -- yes, the truck guys can be sketchy since they want to sell you new stuff and not have to deal with your warranty claims, but somebody like me can just ship a ratchet back to Snapon and get a repaired or brand new one in return. That does mean something.

I did spend quite a bit of time looking over Kokens offerings - and I do like the novelty of their Made in Japan, kinda unique tool status... almost like a conversation piece, for tool guys (clearly, since we're on like page 12 of this thread, now). So, yeah, I can totally see buying a Koken... but, the only one that would really interest me is probably the long handled flex headed 1/2 ratchet... because those ratchets are much less affected by clearance issues (if you don't have the space, then you're likely not using a half inch extended handle, anyway). I did see one of them with the no-knurled Snapon-like smooth finished handle... and that looked like a nice piece.

At any rate, all of this talk of ratchets has made be pull the trigger on a ratchet I realized was missing from my collection. I really was considering a Nepros, but after finding an amazing deal for a new one on eBay - I pulled the trigger on a Snappy TX72 long handled, locking flex headed 1/4 S80 for those super tight vehicle maintenance situations. It retails for $135.25 plus shipping, but the seller had 2 of them for $77.99.

https://store.snapon.com/Dual-80-17...Handle-Locking-Flex-Head-Ratchet-P647033.aspx

It's funny, though, right after pulling the trigger, I took another look at the Matco AFR68LF 1/4 in locking flex head. I noticed that the head profile was very thin, and thinner than the Snappy. I'm not clear on Matco's warranty - which might be a good subject for another thread -- but I did note in one of the "Humble Mechanic's" YouTube posts on ratchets (did you ever watch him?) -- he mentioned that ratchet, in particular, as being his overall favorite of any ratchet in any size.

 

[Mr_John]

Utter bull. Either you don't know how the franchise works and what the legal structure is or you mislead intentionally.

Back to Ko-Ken: they ratchets are nice, the sockets are outstanding.

Isn't that a bit rough? I've bought a number of Snapon ratchets - all new, but from third parties (possibly dealers with eBay accounts). That said, a brand new ratchet could become "used," technically if the third party seller simply used it one time on one bolt.

The reality is that Snapon BENEFITS from it's warranty policy, and so do people that own Snapons that decide to later sell them - either to upgrade, or maybe bc they don't need them any longer but need the money more. Some very USED Snappy stuff sells for big bucks online -- and there's various reason why it gets a price premium used (one of which is it's simply a very well respected premium name in tools, esp ratchets)... so, yeah, the guy that sold him those used tools probably made 5-10x more than he would have made selling any other used tool - and one reason for that, is Snapon's rather generous warranty.

Hey, they're a publicly traded company now, so, they know what they're doing. I don't think the other guy is really abusing anything -- as long as they are genuine Snapons, then Snapon can decide for themselves if the value to Snapon from offering such a great warranty outweighs the cost.

Hey, if Danaher/Craftsman/Sears could do it for so many years, at their low price points, then I think Snapon can do it as well.

 

[impactims]

No I disagree with YOU, its well known the warranty is for original purchasers, you know this yet abuse the system because you get away with it. Honestly I'd rather not discuss, educate or use anymore of my time on you. Those who rely on SO tools to feed their family and depend on the warranty system would despise your actions. I'll just say it.....I don't like you.

It would appear that you have never even been on a snap-on truck. I don't mean this to be critical at all so don't take that the wrong way. I say this because if you had ever been a regular snap-on customer (like me and many other fine folks around here) you would have seen the large bin of used tools for sale, ON THE TRUCK. Many of these are snap-on tools that the franchise owner took in on trade. He then sells these tools......drum roll please....WITH A WARRANTY. Yup, thats right, snap-on franchise owners sell used snap-on tools with a warranty. I have never seen a snap-on dealer without used tools for sale, and I have had about 10 dealers.

And now, you don't like me, people that use s-o tools for a living despise my actions. How many of these professional snap-on users buy used stuff from their s-o dealer....probably all. Anyone that visits the truck regularly knows that the used stuff sells FAST..................with a warranty no less.

Sorry to see that you don't like me because I buy used with a warranty and in turn use the warranty given to me. We could have been friends.

 

[M6erfan]

Isn't that a bit rough? I've bought a number of Snapon ratchets - all new, but from third parties (possibly dealers with eBay accounts). That said, a brand new ratchet could become "used," technically if the third party seller simply used it one time on one bolt.

The reality is that Snapon BENEFITS from it's warranty policy, and so do people that own Snapons that decide to later sell them - either to upgrade, or maybe bc they don't need them any longer but need the money more. Some very USED Snappy stuff sells for big bucks online -- and there's various reason why it gets a price premium used (one of which is it's simply a very well respected premium name in tools, esp ratchets)... so, yeah, the guy that sold him those used tools probably made 5-10x more than he would have made selling any other used tool - and one reason for that, is Snapon's rather generous warranty.

Hey, they're a publicly traded company now, so, they know what they're doing. I don't think the other guy is really abusing anything -- as long as they are genuine Snapons, then Snapon can decide for themselves if the value to Snapon from offering such a great warranty outweighs the cost.

Hey, if Danaher/Craftsman/Sears could do it for so many years, at their low price points, then I think Snapon can do it as well.

They might have been new, but you weren't the original purchaser.

As far as Craftsman/Sears, do you really want to use them as a success story for your comparison?

When a ratchet costs $100+ vs $30 the finances for the manufacturers are quite different.

The S-0 warranty is clear, if they choose not to enforce it, that's up to them.

 

[impactims]

Isn't that a bit rough? I've bought a number of Snapon ratchets - all new, but from third parties (possibly dealers with eBay accounts). That said, a brand new ratchet could become "used," technically if the third party seller simply used it one time on one bolt.

The reality is that Snapon BENEFITS from it's warranty policy, and so do people that own Snapons that decide to later sell them - either to upgrade, or maybe bc they don't need them any longer but need the money more. Some very USED Snappy stuff sells for big bucks online -- and there's various reason why it gets a price premium used (one of which is it's simply a very well respected premium name in tools, esp ratchets)... so, yeah, the guy that sold him those used tools probably made 5-10x more than he would have made selling any other used tool - and one reason for that, is Snapon's rather generous warranty.

Hey, they're a publicly traded company now, so, they know what they're doing. I don't think the other guy is really abusing anything -- as long as they are genuine Snapons, then Snapon can decide for themselves if the value to Snapon from offering such a great warranty outweighs the cost.

Hey, if Danaher/Craftsman/Sears could do it for so many years, at their low price points, then I think Snapon can do it as well.

Yup, and I thought I was the only one that could see this.

 

[impactims]

They might have been new, but you weren't the original purchaser.

Doesn't matter.

 

[impactims]

Dishonesty on the claimant's part, certainly. As for fraud, in the colloquial sense sure, but in the legal sense, it depends.

Did you ever happen to notice that all the snap on dealers out there sell these used tools ON THEIR TRUCK with a warranty?

And there is certainly dishonesty going on with a little colloquial fraud to boot?

I would love to see a case like this end up in court.

 

[M6erfan]

...I think the KTC / Nepros stuff is gorgeous, but man, are they pricey when you consider the fact the warranty is a bit of a concern.

What is your concern exactly? Their (lifetime) warranty policy is very clear.

 

[M6erfan]

Doesn't matter.

That's up to S-o.

 

[impactims]

Its not right & mostly honest modestly paid workers in the mechanical trade are paying for your privilege. It sounds like you know exactly what the policy is and how to best use its loopholes. Justify it to yourself however you want but deep down you know what's going on.

Loopholes? Deep down inside?

They sell used snap on tools and tool boxes on their truck daily, with warranty.

Are we snap on buyers all bad people because we buy used tools from the dealer with a warranty? How is this morally wrong? Explain that one...

 

[M6erfan]

...My point is that top end tool makers like Snapon, Matco, Wiha, PB Swiss, and yes, I'd say KTC as well -- and well, hard to exclude Gear Wrench at this point, but they have rather sophisticated line up that all include higher end torque tools, most have a digital variant showing their ability to move their tool line into the modern age. The fact that Koken SPECIALIZES mainly in sockets and ratchets seems to only make the fact they don't have digital torque wrenches in their line up even more glaring.

If your measure a tool company is wether or not they manufacture their own torque wrenches, then many do not. Many are simply private labeled.

 

[impactims]

That's up to S-o.

And they are fine with it, obviously.

I am not an authority in the arena of warranty law, but if snap-on says "This warranty only extends to the original Customer and cannot be transferred or assigned" then basically this is a promise to original customers in contract law but they don't have any obligation to deny the same service to those that are not the original customer. Warranties are not legal guarantees, they are promises. Should they choose to deny warranty service to those that are not original purchasers, they could. But they don't have to.

 

[impactims]

I've got some Snap-on that are developing "spots" in the chrome. Must have been defective, because rubbing on the concrete floor and such over the years has gotten down to the steel, which turns dark. Can I warranty them? I'm not sure where I got them from, been too long. But, given their age, I probably picked them up secondhand. I'm attaching pictures so you can see the defects.

If I call them in to corporate, should I do it all at once, or spread them out over a few days or weeks?

Will they make me send back the bad ones, or can I save them and sell them on ebay for the next guy to warranty also?

Thanks for your help!

Last time I dealt with corporate as opposed to a franchise for warranty, they sent me one (a ratchet) and they told me to keep the old one. What to do with the old one was up to me. They did not ask or seem to care about who purchased originally and when or even the nature of the problem beyond the fact that I was not happy with them.

Hope this helps

 

[impactims]

Man, looking at the pictures, looks like the paint is chipping on my old KRL21 box too. Will they make me ship that one back if I warranty it? It will cost quite a bit to ship it, as it's heavy. One of the side handles is slightly bent also, I don't think they made it heavy enough for what the box holds.

Oh, another thing I noticed. Snap-on recessed the reversing lever on my ratchet! And didn't polish the background! But, it's worn smooth from me using it over the years, so I guess they were thinking ahead to what it would look like 35 years later.

I just bought, second hand, a pair of 1960 era snap-on boxes.

The only things that were covered under warranty through the franchise was the slides and locks. And of course, I have new slides and locks.

Hope this helps

 

[Mr_John]

What is your concern exactly? Their (lifetime) warranty policy is very clear.

Well, as I think you may have pointed out in another thread where I mentioned a Chinese brake piston rotation/compression tool that had a "lifetime warranty" -- not all lifetime warranties are the same. I just haven't read anyone that mentioned KTC/Nepros's history of approving warranty claims.

Clearly some manufacturers are a PITA with warranties -- and others are very lenient. SO tend to be a no-hassle warranty-er. KTC is kinda unknown at this point. As an example of a company that is horrible with warranties - it's a non-tool company, but Panasonic (who uses a third party in McClain, TX to do their warranty work) - is pretty bad with warranties. Example - they say you need to buy from an "authorized seller," but their WRITTEN warranty says nothing of the sort - only that you need a receipt as proof of dated purchase.

Cars warranties are another good example.

Anywho, not all warranties are created equal.

 

[American Locomotive]

No, that's not the same. And as an aside, I'm wearing a watch right now with a mechanical movement. Mechanical movements are top tier, not the other way around, but I understand the general point that you're TRYING to make.

Mechanical movements are actually garbage in terms of accuracy. Rolex's best mechanical movement can hold +6/-4 seconds/day. A good quartz digital wrist-watch will hold +/- 5 seconds per month.

Which is my point. Not a single person in the world would say Rolex is a "mid-tier" manufacturer because they don't offer vastly superior digital quartz based movements.

Don't you see the point -- Koken wants to make money, right? If Kokens are great ratchets, then to make more money, you expand into precision instruments, like digital torque wrenches.

Yeah, I think you're really over-estimating how lucrative the "digital torque wrench" business is.

So, no, the Rolex comparison is hardly the same... it takes A LOT of skill (and money - and sales numbers) to justify the expense of designing your very own mechanical movement. Actually, higher end watch makers often use ETA SA Swiss movements, that are just rebranded. The top watch makers, like Omega, Tag, Breitling and Rolex -- each design and manufacturer their own movements. That's one reason why they're "top tier' watch companies.

Koken has spent a lot of time and effort optimizing and perfecting their manufacturing techniques to produce an extremely smooth and durable ratchet with very minimal backdrag. Their socket quality is extremely high and extremely consistent.

They're not "mid tier" just because they don't offer a digital torque wrench. Just the same as Rolex isn't "mid-tier" even though a $10 Casio quartz watch is literally an order of magnitude more precise.

 

[Yarpo]

They might have been new, but you weren't the original purchaser.

Not that I want to hop into this thread and debate about warranty but there's absolutely dealers or past dealers selling on ebay. Many of them even note the small blemishes from rolling around in the Snap on van while packed in a tray or bin. Pretty sure it's no different than buying from a dealer in person and as such you would still be the original purchaser. I've bought all but one or two of my Snap on tools from ebay and the guy who shows up to our shop said he would warranty them (Tho I've bought two things from him to try and make sure there was no issue) but I should also be able to warranty them direct from snap on too, no?

 

[M6erfan]

Not that I want to hop into this thread and debate about warranty but there's absolutely dealers or past dealers selling on ebay. Many of them even note the small blemishes from rolling around in the Snap on van while packed in a tray or bin. Pretty sure it's no different than buying from a dealer in person and as such you would still be the original purchaser. I've bought all but one or two of my Snap on tools from ebay and the guy who shows up to our shop said he would warranty them (Tho I've bought two things from him to try and make sure there was no issue) but I should also be able to warranty them direct from snap on too, no?

Again, that's up to S-o. I'm just taking their written warranty literally.

 

[M6erfan]

Well, as I think you may have pointed out in another thread where I mentioned a Chinese brake piston rotation/compression tool that had a "lifetime warranty" -- not all lifetime warranties are the same. I just haven't read anyone that mentioned KTC/Nepros's history of approving warranty claims.

Clearly some manufacturers are a PITA with warranties -- and others are very lenient. SO tend to be a no-hassle warranty-er. KTC is kinda unknown at this point. As an example of a company that is horrible with warranties - it's a non-tool company, but Panasonic (who uses a third party in McClain, TX to do their warranty work) - is pretty bad with warranties. Example - they say you need to buy from an "authorized seller," but their WRITTEN warranty says nothing of the sort - only that you need a receipt as proof of dated purchase.

Cars warranties are another good example.

Anywho, not all warranties are created equal.

Ah yes, I remember that thread. Warranty seems to be very important to you. For me, not so much. Especially on hand tools.

Honestly, when is the last time a ratchet, from an established high quality tool company failed you? And I'm not talking about using a 4ft cheater pipe on the handle of a 1/4" drive ratchet... My grandfather's SK ratchets are still going strong, they're probably from the early '70's.

Have faith my friend, I'm sure that Ko-ken or KTC are plenty strong, and if one of their tools did fail I have no doubt that they would take care of it. Why wouldn't they?

 

[Samuel D]

Any suggestions where to buy Koken tools in Europe?

Their PDF catalogue is amazing. I’ve never seen so many sockets I don’t need!

However, some of the 24-tooth ratchet mechanisms look similar to the Proto J5249 and derivatives, which in turn come from Plomb. I’d love to hear a bonafide expert on ratchet mechanisms explain the design considerations and manufacturing demands of these things.

 

[Handyandy23]

Did you ever happen to notice that all the snap on dealers out there sell these used tools ON THEIR TRUCK with a warranty?

And there is certainly dishonesty going on with a little colloquial fraud to boot?

I would love to see a case like this end up in court.

It's like buying a "certified pre-owned" car from the dealer with warranty. The dealer is obviously going to offer warranty because he is making a profit off the sale, even though it's used. He probably took it as trade value towards a new tool, and is selling to recoup cash. Also when you buy it used from the truck you're buying it in working condition, not some busted up junker for pennies.

I don't buy SO and don't really care what you do, but I do find it weird that you can't see the moral dilemma in buying used up tools for cheap and expecting free parts or replacements for life. Like buying 60 year old tool boxes used for peanuts and asking for brand new slides for all of them. Seems kind of mind boggling to me.

Last time I dealt with corporate as opposed to a franchise for warranty, they sent me one (a ratchet) and they told me to keep the old one. What to do with the old one was up to me. They did not ask or seem to care about who purchased originally and when or even the nature of the problem beyond the fact that I was not happy with them.

Hope this helps

Clearly you didn't detect all of the sarcasm in his post, and the fact that you seem to think it's fine to buy a used up ratchet, get it replaced for free, and then give the broken one to someone else to get free replacement too, really speaks volumes.

Where does that cycle end? How many brand new ratchets should SO give away for free to replace that one old one? I guess Iin your opinion an infinite amount as long as SO keeps handing them out.