Move over Snap-on have a viable competitor for ratchets

[Mr_John]

Pro mechanics don't talk about torque wrenches as a halo tool either, or compare the "tier-ness" of brands by if they have a digital torque wrench or not.

They don't? Are you a professional mechanic?

I'm really not sure what you're even trying to argue? The chinese and taiwanese Snap-On F80 equivalants (90-120T store brand ratchets) sell for far cheaper than an F80. If my SK LP90 was made in China, I wouldn't pay $50 for it either. Also, the Koken is $32, not 50. It feels smoother and nicer than my LP90, and I rank my LP90 right up there with the F80.
it's not a strawman at all. You quite literally said verbatim that because they don't have digital torque wrenches, they don't have advanced manufacturing capability. It's not just "one example", it's the only example you keep using.

Uhmmm, that's EXACTLY what I'm arguing - the fact that the Koken is actually made in Japan is a reason it's sought after. That said, please provide me to this mystical $32 Koken ratchet link you speak of. What, $32 for the ratchet and $25 to ship from Japan?

Also, I did not say "verbatim" that digital torque wrenches make a tool company that produces other ratchets "top tier." If I really did, which I clearly did not, then quote me. You can't because I didn't. As an example, Harbor Freight has digital torque wrenches, and no, they're not what I would consider top tier. Top tier manufacturers are there due to various things, such as origin of manufacturing (Germany, Japan, USA), price (tend to be higher priced), warranty, reputation, performance, and then they also tend to have a full line of tools, including sophisticated instruments such as digital torque drivers/ratchets.

"Mid-tier" had direct implications about quality. Why would a high quality precise ratchet be classified as "mid-tier"? It doesn't make sense.

It makes sense, you're just confused. A Honda Accord and a Toyota Camry are impeccably engineered vehicles, but they are no BMW 5 Series, Audi A7 or Mercedes Benz E Class. It makes complete sense.

+6/-4 seconds per day means up to 120-180 seconds per month. A cheap digital watch holding +/- 10 seconds per month is literally an order of magnitude better. Literally, by the definition of order of magnitude. A mid range digital watch holding +/- 10 seconds per year is an order of magnitude better than that - two orders of magnitude more precise than that rolex.
Are you trying to imply the size of the company and number of emoloyees is somehow related to quality and "tier-ness"?

You're still arguing about accuracy (in seconds, btw), and that completely misses the point of owning a precision mechanical watch, let alone one that is certified accurate like a Rolex movement. I mean, if you want to get down to it, your cell phone is more accurate than a mechanical watch and most digital quartz watches.

 

[Mr_John]

Your posts are giving me Forest Whitaker eye. I can't tell if you are being serious or trolling with some of your goofy arguments

Yeah, I'm trolling because I don't agree with you - please. Do you really think a $30 (supposed price) Koken ratchet with 20 some teeth mech is a "top tier" ratchet?

Maybe you're trolling...

 

[Handyandy23]

What's apparent is that you enjoy to set up strawmen. If you read my previous statements, I mentioned there is less concern about the warranty when the tool is low dollar. On the other hand, when you pay over $100 for a high end ratchet, esp if you're a professional, you really want a good warranty.

Also, I for one never said that Kokens were bad tools - I was simply arguing that they were mid-tier ratchets, that's all. Mid-tier ratchets with low tooth counts, questionable warranties, and only ONE authorized US distributor.

So, by all means, enjoy your Koken ratchet.

I don't even own a Koken ratchet. I just find it funny that you've taken such a passionate stance on something you yourself have never used. And it's all based on the metrics of tooth count and warranty. You're calling them mid tier ratchets has nothing to do with their accuracy or mechanism, because you've never touched one. Just a couple silly buzz words that American tool manufacturers drill into customers heads.

Princess Auto (basically Canadian equivalent to Harbor Freight) has a 168 tooth ratchet for $25 that has a "lifetime warranty". And PA will replace anything at customer service without a question.

Does this mean these ratchets are the best and should be the number one choice of professionals? More teeth than a SO ratchet and hassle free warranty, must be the pinnacle of ratchets.

 

[JBH]

Uhmmm, that's EXACTLY what I'm arguing - the fact that the Koken is actually made in Japan is a reason it's sought after.

Wrong. Sure there are people who worship COO and tend to be overly loud and annoying about it. Others recognize that good design and quality follow from processes, not geography.

Koken simply approaches the design and execution tool differently, and some people appreciate that. An automotive analogy might be a Miata, Mini Cooper, or Forester. They don't cost much, but their buyers tend to have higher incomes and education levels than buyers of like-priced cars.

Do you really think a $30 (supposed price) Koken ratchet with 20 some teeth mech is a "top tier" ratchet?

Is Stahlwille? How about Nepros?

What if somebody can reach down into a drawer and pick up one of those two, Koken, or some not-as-good stuff (Snapon, Bahco, Toptul, Proto/USAG/Facom, etc.), and usually comes out with Koken because it just feels better in the hand to that person? What does that say about this whole "tier" business?

Likewise, what if someone paid a -top-of-the-market-for-1/4"-drive-ratchet amount to personally import a specific discontinued Koken ratchet from a small shop in a foreign country (actually two, because the shipping cost was the same and the shop only had two) because she or he preferred the way Koken ratchets feel but wanted that discontinued style - let's say oh just for the sake of argument a QR flex head with an ergonomic screwdriver-style handle - and was willing to pay for it. Does that elevate that particular Koken to "top tier?"

 

[Mr_John]

I don't even own a Koken ratchet. I just find it funny that you've taken such a passionate stance on something you yourself have never used. And it's all based on the metrics of tooth count and warranty. You're calling them mid tier ratchets has nothing to do with their accuracy or mechanism, because you've never touched one. Just a couple silly buzz words that American tool manufacturers drill into customers heads.

Princess Auto (basically Canadian equivalent to Harbor Freight) has a 168 tooth ratchet for $25 that has a "lifetime warranty". And PA will replace anything at customer service without a question.

Does this mean these ratchets are the best and should be the number one choice of professionals? More teeth than a SO ratchet and hassle free warranty, must be the pinnacle of ratchets.

No, I think it's the other way around - you and others are passionately defending Koken. I've said over and over and over that they appear to be quality made tools - but, but, BUT -- I'm not overly impressed with the low rent tooth count for use in confined spaces, and if you do auto maintenance, much of where you work is quite confined. Also, I'm still yet to see evidence of these supposed $35 Kokens - do you have a link to a $35 Koken? The knurling doesn't impress me either - doesn't appear machined... looks like it was forged into the ratchet handle and then polished after the fact. The website ***** as well, but, to be fair, a lot of tool websites aren't all that great, and Koken's is quite poor. Finally, the warranty is questionable and any purchase seems to be "gray market" since there is only one authorized Koken distributor in the US -- and nobody is buying from the authorized distributor - then warranty performance is very sketchy at best.

As for the "Princess Auto" example -- really, there's a store in Canada that sells tools that are 90% + purchased by men, called "Princess" Auto? Well, yes, Harbor Freight's lifetime warranty on hand tools is definitely a big plus - especially given how close their location is to my house, and how easy it is to get warranty service. That said, no, a 10,000 tooth mech is not necessarily better - or 168 tooth mech. It's not JUST tooth count, but a tooth count LESS THAN 50 especially one less than 30, would cause a concern related to swing arc and clearance issue. I've read at least one complaint about the Gear Wrench 120XP ratchets having excessive back drag due to the high tooth count and the person preferring the 84 tooth count alternative. So, no, tooth count is not everything - and I never said it was. Low tooth count is my concern. Why does KTC Nepros use a fine 90 tooth ratchet like MOST of the high end ratchet competitors, yet Koken "knows best" and for some strange alternate universe reason, it's okay to use only 20, yes 20 teeth in a 1/4 inch ratchet? 115mm in handle length and an only 20 tooth mech -- that's got to be wonderful to use inside a car engine bay. Good luck with that.

http://www.kokenusa.com/products/model/44

 

[American Locomotive]

They don't? Are you a professional mechanic?

I just took a drive transmission out of a $3 million dollar CNC machine - so I'd say yes.

The knurling doesn't impress me either - doesn't appear machined... looks like it was forged into the ratchet handle and then polished after the fact.

Koken knurling is extremely impressive. Beautifully formed with excellent hand feel. The knurling isn't sharp so it cuts up your hand. It's perfectly done... and so what if it was forged into the handle (which it's not) instead of machined? You act as if machining a knurl is some complicated process. It's not. A swiss-style CNC lathe could knurl a ratchet handle in probably about 5 seconds. As someone who's worked in the industry, I can promise you it would be far, far more difficult for Koken to reliably forge/press a knurl into the handle than it would be to machine it.

Uhmmm, that's EXACTLY what I'm arguing - the fact that the Koken is actually made in Japan is a reason it's sought after. That said, please provide me to this mystical $32 Koken ratchet link you speak of. What, $32 for the ratchet and $25 to ship from Japan?

It's sought after because it's a high quality piece, manufactured exquisitely. It's not cheap to manufacture in Japan, so it shows they value quality. Koken could have easily off-shored everything to a third party manufacturer in China.

Amazon.JP has new Koken ratchets for as low as $27.

Also, I did not say "verbatim" that digital torque wrenches make a tool company that produces other ratchets "top tier." If I really did, which I clearly did not, then quote me. You can't because I didn't.

Re-read my post. I didn't say that. I said you claimed that not having a digital torque wrench means they don't have advanced manufacturing capabilities. My argument is that advanced manufacturing capabilities has nothing to do with having digital torque tools.

As an example, Harbor Freight has digital torque wrenches, and no, they're not what I would consider top tier.

That's exactly my point. Snap-On, MATCO, etc... do not have any kind of in-house semi-conductor or strain gauge manufacturing capability. They farm all of that out to a 3rd party, who designs the strain gauge, digital circuitry, etc.. to Snap-On's or whoever's specifications. Snap-On then buys the completed modules and assembles them onto their torque wrench bodies.

Having a digital torque in your line up isn't indicative of anything except that you wanted a digital torque wrench in your line up.

Top tier manufacturers are there due to various things, such as origin of manufacturing (Germany, Japan, USA), price (tend to be higher priced), warranty, reputation, performance, and then they also tend to have a full line of tools, including sophisticated instruments such as digital torque drivers/ratchets.

Size of lineup isn't indicative of anything. By that logic, WalMart is a top-tier store.

You're still arguing about accuracy (in seconds, btw), and that completely misses the point of owning a precision mechanical watch, let alone one that is certified accurate like a Rolex movement. I mean, if you want to get down to it, your cell phone is more accurate than a mechanical watch and most digital quartz watches.

...and you're completely missing the point of a Koken ratchet. They're made out of extremely high quality steel, with very precisely machined components, and everything is dialed in perfectly so they're a joy to use.

You buy a Rolex for its smooth and exquisite mechanism, the durability of its internal components, the heritage and where it's manufactured. You don't care that it's not the most precise device made.

You buy a Koken for the precision of its smooth and exquisite mechanism, the durability of its precisely machined components, the high quality steel and where it was made. It doesn't really matter that it doesn't have the finest tooth count around.

 

[Mr_John]

Wrong. Sure there are people who worship COO and tend to be overly loud and annoying about it. Others recognize that good design and quality follow from processes, not geography.

Are you being too cute by half here? Come on, COO is a big deal and you know it.

Koken simply approaches the design and execution tool differently, and some people appreciate that. An automotive analogy might be a Miata, Mini Cooper, or Forester. They don't cost much, but their buyers tend to have higher incomes and education levels than buyers of like-priced cars.

How so, what empirical evidence of Koken's "design and execution" do you have? I've seen $1 ratchets with knurled grips - most high end ratchets do not use knurled grips. There is a lot of hard to quantify subjectiveness in the "feel" of a tool - but it's interesting that no other quality ratchet manufacturers seem to be knurl their grips or use 20 tooth mechs.

Is Stahlwille? How about Nepros?

Don't know much about German Stahlwille, but do they use 20 tooth mechs in their ratchets? If so, then maybe you have a point. I know Nepros uses 90 tooth mechs, so not sure what your point is about Nepros. I don't think anyone questions KTC Nepros being top tier, btw.

What if somebody can reach down into a drawer and pick up one of those two, Koken, or some not-as-good stuff (Snapon, Bahco, Toptul, Proto/USAG/Facom, etc.), and usually comes out with Koken because it just feels better in the hand to that person? What does that say about this whole "tier" business?

Okay, but how do you quantify this claim? Have you done or even read of a comparison where SO, Matco, Gearwrench, Craftsman, etc were place in a drawer with Koken and random people picked the Koken -- or are you just talking about you?

Likewise, what if someone paid a -top-of-the-market-for-1/4"-drive-ratchet amount to personally import a specific discontinued Koken ratchet from a small shop in a foreign country (actually two, because the shipping cost was the same and the shop only had two) because she or he preferred the way Koken ratchets feel but wanted that discontinued style - let's say oh just for the sake of argument a QR flex head with an ergonomic screwdriver-style handle - and was willing to pay for it. Does that elevate that particular Koken to "top tier?"

No, it doesn't.

 

[Max]

Yeah, I'm trolling because I don't agree with you - please. Do you really think a $30 (supposed price) Koken ratchet with 20 some teeth mech is a "top tier" ratchet?

Maybe you're trolling...

Do you even try to lookup something before you post? First thing I found at Amazon.jp:

$37.01: https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0081EBARE/

I am not 100% sure, but as best I can tell it’s a 36 tooth ratchet. I can’t read Japanese, and their catalog is not 100% clear to me.

Max

 

[Mr_John]

Koken knurling is extremely impressive. Beautifully formed with excellent hand feel. The knurling isn't sharp so it cuts up your hand. It's perfectly done... and so what if it was forged into the handle (which it's not) instead of machined? You act as if machining a knurl is some complicated process. It's not. A swiss-style CNC lathe could knurl a ratchet handle in probably about 5 seconds. As someone who's worked in the industry, I can promise you it would be far, far more difficult for Koken to reliably forge/press a knurl into the handle than it would be to machine it.

Okay, if it's not forged into the handle, then how did it the knurling get there? I've looked at a number of pics, and considered the price point, and I do not think those grips are machined. I don't dispute your claim that it can be done quickly, but it costs money to use those sophisticated CNC machines, and the bits they use are expensive and consumable - so that adds cost, esp considering this is already a costly manufacturing process due to being located in Japan.

It's sought after because it's a high quality piece, manufactured exquisitely. It's not cheap to manufacture in Japan, so it shows they value quality. Koken could have easily off-shored everything to a third party manufacturer in China.

Well, we agree that it says something about a company that it manufactures in its own home country - esp when that home country is NOT China. The Japanese do have a great reputation for quality metal works, but they haven't always had the best products or technology.

Amazon.JP has new Koken ratchets for as low as $27.

Okay, for the hundredth time now - link please. Show me a link to this $27 Koken. If it's only $27, then maybe I'll buy one just to test it out, myself.

Re-read my post. I didn't say that. I said you claimed that not having a digital torque wrench means they don't have advanced manufacturing capabilities. My argument is that advanced manufacturing capabilities has nothing to do with having digital torque tools.

I did read your post and that's what you said. I also never said that having a giant tool line makes you automatically top tier. What I've said over and over again is that top tool manufacturer tend to have large lines of tools that also exhibit their sophistication by offering sophisticated products such as digital torque wrenches. That's what I said.

Having a digital torque in your line up isn't indicative of anything except that you wanted a digital torque wrench in your line up.

Uhmm, if it's just rebranded then yes, it means little - but if it was designed in-house and uses proprietary parts, then no, I completely disagree with you.

You buy a Rolex for its smooth and exquisite mechanism, the durability of its internal components, the heritage and where it's manufactured. You don't care that it's not the most precise device made.

You buy a Koken for the precision of its smooth and exquisite mechanism, the durability of its precisely machined components, the high quality steel and where it was made. It doesn't really matter that it doesn't have the finest tooth count around.

Well, I'm not disagreeing with you, but yes, a Rolex not made in Switzeland is not a Rolex - and would never be accepted as a "real" Rolex. People would always buy them, though, if they were cheap enough, though, regardless of where it was made - even if it was made in China.

I here all of these claims about "finest quality steel" and super duper precise mechanisms, but I've seen videos of the Kokens and they sound like $10 Craftsman ratchets with those low tooth counts. I mean, they're definitely prettier than the box-end style lowest end Craftsman ratchet, but I just really do find it hard to get over why no other premium ratchet maker uses mechas as low as 20 teeth, and even the high tooth count mechs only have about 45 teeth in them.

Sorry, a $27 ratchet (if that's really even true - again, send me the link) with only 20 teeth and a questionable warranty is still mid-tier in my book. Maybe some day Koken will come out with a Nepros style high tooth count stunner of a ratchet - but I'm not overly impressed by what I've seen so far.

 

[Mr_John]

Do you even try to lookup something before you post? First thing I found at Amazon.jp:

$37.01: https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0081EBARE/

I am not 100% sure, but as best I can tell it’s a 36 tooth ratchet. I can’t read Japanese, and their catalog is not 100% clear to me.

Max

You can use a translator on the page - but what you've cited is $37, and not $30 or $27 like somebody else said. Also, it has to ship internationally, which is about $15, isn't it? So, that's now a $52 ratchet with a 36 tooth Craftsman-style mech. It has a nice looking handle, though, I'll give it that.

Oh, and btw, I just tried to order one to see the shipping cost on Amazon.jp, and it said that it cannot ship to my USA address. So, would you like to try again?

 

[Handyandy23]

No, I think it's the other way around - you and others are passionately defending Koken. I've said over and over and over that they appear to be quality made tools - but, but, BUT -- I'm not overly impressed with the low rent tooth count for use in confined spaces, and if you do auto maintenance, much of where you work is quite confined. Also, I'm still yet to see evidence of these supposed $35 Kokens - do you have a link to a $35 Koken? The knurling doesn't impress me either - doesn't appear machined... looks like it was forged into the ratchet handle and then polished after the fact. The website ***** as well, but, to be fair, a lot of tool websites aren't all that great, and Koken's is quite poor. Finally, the warranty is questionable and any purchase seems to be "gray market" since there is only one authorized Koken distributor in the US -- and nobody is buying from the authorized distributor - then warranty performance is very sketchy at best.

As for the "Princess Auto" example -- really, there's a store in Canada that sells tools that are 90% + purchased by men, called "Princess" Auto? Well, yes, Harbor Freight's lifetime warranty on hand tools is definitely a big plus - especially given how close their location is to my house, and how easy it is to get warranty service. That said, no, a 10,000 tooth mech is not necessarily better - or 168 tooth mech. It's not JUST tooth count, but a tooth count LESS THAN 50 especially one less than 30, would cause a concern related to swing arc and clearance issue. I've read at least one complaint about the Gear Wrench 120XP ratchets having excessive back drag due to the high tooth count and the person preferring the 84 tooth count alternative. So, no, tooth count is not everything - and I never said it was. Low tooth count is my concern. Why does KTC Nepros use a fine 90 tooth ratchet like MOST of the high end ratchet competitors, yet Koken "knows best" and for some strange alternate universe reason, it's okay to use only 20, yes 20 teeth in a 1/4 inch ratchet? 115mm in handle length and an only 20 tooth mech -- that's got to be wonderful to use inside a car engine bay. Good luck with that.

http://www.kokenusa.com/products/model/44

Go back in any of my posts and quote anything specific I've said that you think is "passionately defending" Koken. I've specifically said I've never used a Koken ratchet, and my whole point is I have no clue how good they are - and that neither do you! Yet you've somehow blathered for several long winded posts about why you think Koken is "mid tier". It makes people look foolish to have such a strong opinion on something they have no first hand experience with.

For example, if you'd never had chocolate ice cream before, but you really liked vanilla, and you read dozens of people who have eaten chocolate flavor and really like it, but you spend half your day arguing with them about why you don't think chocolate is going to taste good. Nobody cares! Either go try some and give your opinion or don't and move on.

The fact that so many Koken users are so happy with their tools, and the only detractors are those who have never used them, speaks volumes to me, and makes me want to give them a try to form my own opinion. But then there seems to be a whole strange subset of people online that don't seem to like praise being given to a product that competes with their favorite.

The low tooth count is different, but not sure why doing things a different way has to be bad. Koken is purposely sacrificing tooth count for lower backdrag and smoother operation. It's not like they live in a vacuum and don't realize everyone else is using higher tooth counts. They just continue to do things their way and value different criteria. If you don't value the same things then fine, go buy something else. But at least it gives consumers something different to choose from. If they replaced all their current ratchets with 90T versions with similar backdrag to competitors, what reason would anyone have for choosing them over the masses of others?

 

[M6erfan]

The low tooth count is different, but not sure why doing things a different way has to be bad. Koken is purposely sacrificing tooth count for lower backdrag and smoother operation. It's not like they live in a vacuum and don't realize everyone else is using higher tooth counts. They just continue to do things their way and value different criteria. If you don't value the same things then fine, go buy something else. But at least it gives consumers something different to choose from. If they replaced all their current ratchets with 90T versions with similar backdrag to competitors, what reason would anyone have for choosing them over the masses of others?

^^^Precisely this.

Ko-ken has their philosophy on ratchets and they're true to it. Weather one agrees with it or not, well, that's up to the user. Personally I'm very glad Ko-ken isn't following the high tooth count race, if they did very little would set them apart from all the rest.

Those that lament Ko-Ken's lower tooth count are completely missing the point.

 

[toddmorr]

That said, please provide me to this mystical $32 Koken ratchet link you speak of. What, $32 for the ratchet and $25 to ship from Japan?

surprise surprise...$41 on Amazon US with free shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P919PO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I tried to copy the link from Amazon JP but it doesn't come across correctly, but trust me it's 2994 Yen for that exact ratchet. That's $28. Shipping from Japan routinely costs me 10-15% of the order size. So, no mysticism here.

 

[toddmorr]

Oh, and btw, I just tried to order one to see the shipping cost on Amazon.jp, and it said that it cannot ship to my USA address. So, would you like to try again?

geez, Amazon JP like Amazon US has multiple suppliers of the same product. Look for the ratchet sold by Amazon JP and you'll get your shipping quote to the US. Or maybe just take the word of many here that it's around 15% on a small order?

 

[Mr_John]

Yet you've somehow blathered for several long winded posts about why you think Koken is "mid tier". It makes people look foolish to have such a strong opinion on something they have no first hand experience with.

I think I've explained numerous times whey Koken is mid-tier. You don't like hearing that for some reason, yet criticize ME for not owning a Koken - admit you don't own one - and then proceed to tell me how Koken is better than mid-tier. Okay.

For example, if you'd never had chocolate ice cream before, but you really liked vanilla, and you read dozens of people who have eaten chocolate flavor and really like it, but you spend half your day arguing with them about why you don't think chocolate is going to taste good. Nobody cares! Either go try some and give your opinion or don't and move on.

Uhmm, you don't really look at spec sheets on food, or chocolate ice cream for that matter. I can look at a spec sheet on a car and read a review on a car and have an opinion on a car -- all without every having to buy that damn car. You seem to suggest that we have to own every damn thing we evaluate. If that were the case, why would anyone bother to buy Consumer Reports or read Car & Driver?

The fact that so many Koken users are so happy with their tools, and the only detractors are those who have never used them, speaks volumes to me, and makes me want to give them a try to form my own opinion. But then there seems to be a whole strange subset of people online that don't seem to like praise being given to a product that competes with their favorite.

So many are so happy - based on what? A few YouTube posts and a couple people on GJ that may own a particular Koken ratchet for a week or two?

The low tooth count is different, but not sure why doing things a different way has to be bad. Koken is purposely sacrificing tooth count for lower backdrag and smoother operation. It's not like they live in a vacuum and don't realize everyone else is using higher tooth counts. They just continue to do things their way and value different criteria. If you don't value the same things then fine, go buy something else. But at least it gives consumers something different to choose from. If they replaced all their current ratchets with 90T versions with similar backdrag to competitors, what reason would anyone have for choosing them over the masses of others?

I did buy something else, so yeah, I really did not find Koken's offerings all that enticing. I certainly love the mid-tier price point, and the mystique of being an old Japanese tool company -- but other than that, I'm not finding their offerings all that appealing. But for somebody that defends Koken so ardently, it's a bit of a surprise you also haven't purchased one by now.

 

[Mr_John]

geez, Amazon JP like Amazon US has multiple suppliers of the same product. Look for the ratchet sold by Amazon JP and you'll get your shipping quote to the US. Or maybe just take the word of many here that it's around 15% on a small order?

The "word," well a number of people have already commented that the price has shot up right after the OP posted his comment. Also, I looked on eBay, and that same black handled style ratchet - probably one of the nicest offerings from Koken, I agree, but it's selling for over $100. And, shipping is not 15% of anything - that ain't how shipping usually works. You can't buy something on Amazon.jp for $1 and pay 0.15 in shipping costs. I did take a look, before, and recall it being over $10... I think it was at least $15 to ship it from Japan. Apparently US Amazon Prime is no good in Japan.

 

[Mr_John]

surprise surprise...$41 on Amazon US with free shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P919PO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I tried to copy the link from Amazon JP but it doesn't come across correctly, but trust me it's 2994 Yen for that exact ratchet. That's $28. Shipping from Japan routinely costs me 10-15% of the order size. So, no mysticism here.

I saw that one. That's not the nice black handled one that somebody else posted as an example. I'm not a fan of the knurling, and $41 is not $20 or $30, either... but, that ratchet, at $41, looks mid-tier at BEST.

Oh, and that ratchet appears to be 3/8 and has an only 24 tooth mech -- on a 3/8! That appears to be Koken's lower end offering -- I think the black handled model at least has a 45 tooth mech. So, no, not at all interested in that 24 tooth model.

 

[Yarpo]

They don't? Are you a professional mechanic

I'm a professional mechanic, have been for about four years now. I've never once considered a companies standings based on whether or not they offer torque wrench options. My torque wrenches see limited use in comparison to a say a regular ratchet, wrenches, screwdrivers, cordless tools, prybars, etc. They all may get talked about, but a torque wrench is pretty primitive in the sense that it does rather easy or mundane tasks. Like torquing down head bolts and wheel lug nuts. Hardly anything exciting or unique. Where's a nice 1/4" ratchet or a good set of swivel sockets may save your *** on some very intricate and tough jobs on top of being used often, those are the tools that seem to get talked about the most

. So, no, not at all interested in that 24 tooth model.

Lets be honest, you're not interested in either of them. I'm not really either, so I've avoided most this discussion. I like you am not a fan of the lower tooth count given the nature of the things I work on. Would a ratchet like this work for some things I work on? Absolutely. Do I think its worth 30 dollars? Probably. I however don't own one and have never seen one, so how could I (or you) realistically have a better opinion on the ratchet than those who have owned them?

 

[M6erfan]

I was at my 'professional mechanics'' shop a few weeks ago. He started in 1974. He's doing some machining work for me. His trusty ratchet? S-o F936.

 

[Mr_John]

I'm a professional mechanic, have been for about four years now. I've never once considered a companies standings based on whether or not they offer torque wrench options. My torque wrenches see limited use in comparison to a say a regular ratchet, wrenches, screwdrivers, cordless tools, prybars, etc. They all may get talked about, but a torque wrench is pretty primitive in the sense that it does rather easy or mundane tasks. Like torquing down head bolts and wheel lug nuts. Hardly anything exciting or unique. Where's a nice 1/4" ratchet or a good set of swivel sockets may save your *** on some very intricate and tough jobs on top of being used often, those are the tools that seem to get talked about the most

Well, my comments about torque wrenches are being taken wayyyy out of context and twisted. That said, let's just focus on Koken -- I'm not seeing evidence that they've adopted a lot of modern (ie - better) techniques, and their use of a low tooth mech when EVERYONE with premium ratchets has gone high tooth count just seems to reinforce that notion. The fact that they only make a few spark plug specific torque wrenches seems to coincide with Koken's lack of advanced products.

Also, I just ordered a Snapon long handled 1/4 locking flex head ratchet... because of access issues. So, completely agree with you there.

Lets be honest, you're not interested in either of them. I'm not really either, so I've avoided most this discussion. I like you am not a fan of the lower tooth count given the nature of the things I work on. Would a ratchet like this work for some things I work on? Absolutely. Do I think its worth 30 dollars? Probably. I however don't own one and have never seen one, so how could I (or you) realistically have a better opinion on the ratchet than those who have owned them?

Actually that's not COMPLETELY true -- that black handled version with the 45 tooth mech isn't too bad. I like the fact that it's a historic Japanese tool making company -- so, it's almost like a conversation piece. That said, much of the rest of Koken's offerings don't much interest me -- especially that low end 3/8 with the 24 tooth mech... that is generally not the type of ratchet that premium tool companies manufacture.

Finally, the guy I was arguing with doesn't own one, either. And, notice, I'm not commenting on the "feel" of the ratchet... just things I can observe, empirically, such as the ridiculously low tooth count and the not-so-impressive finish on the handle of that $41 Koken you can find on Amazon (us).

 

[American Locomotive]

Okay, if it's not forged into the handle, then how did it the knurling get there? I've looked at a number of pics, and considered the price point, and I do not think those grips are machined. I don't dispute your claim that it can be done quickly, but it costs money to use those sophisticated CNC machines, and the bits they use are expensive and consumable - so that adds cost, esp considering this is already a costly manufacturing process due to being located in Japan.

Just like the ratchets you've never even held - you lack experience with modern manufacturing. I work in a manufacturing facility as part of my job - I work on CNC machines that range from $80,000 to $3,000,000 every single day.

Even factoring the machine cost, the cost of tooling, the machine operator's pay and other costs (electricity, maintenance, etc..), the knurling on that handle would cost about ~20-30 cents. There's maybe about $5 worth of CNC machining operations for the ratchet total.

Even if the grips weren't machined, they still had to get there somehow. I can promise you getting consistent fine quality like that out of forging dies would be essentially impossible in large scale manufacturing.

Okay, for the hundredth time now - link please. Show me a link to this $27 Koken. If it's only $27, then maybe I'll buy one just to test it out, myself.

Go to Amazon.jp, find your favorite ratchet and buy it. Or look up Koken on Rakuten. Both have sellers that ship to the U.S.

What I've said over and over again is that top tool manufacturer tend to have large lines of tools that also exhibit their sophistication by offering sophisticated products such as digital torque wrenches. That's what I said.

and what I've said repeatedly is that "digital torque wrenches" are not indicative of any kind of "sophistication". Nor is it representative of the "tier" of a tool brand. Koken excels at what they manufacture.

I here all of these claims about "finest quality steel" and super duper precise mechanisms, but I've seen videos of the Kokens and they sound like $10 Craftsman ratchets with those low tooth counts.

Your trolling is really getting weaker and weaker man. Judging a ratchet by its "sound". Uh huh.

I've built nearly an entire car with a set of Koken ratchets. They weren't mine - but I used them. You've looked at pictures on the internet. Why don't you go buy one, and stop wasting everyone's time with this nonsense?

 

[toddmorr]

Mr John you are one interesting dude.

Call it low tier mid tier high tier all I know is I reach for my 24 tooth Koken 753 series ratchet with the fabulous knurling, no slop, zero backdrag, and great smoothness BEFORE my Carlyle and Snap on ratchets. Because it just feels better and works well in almost all situations for me.

oh and I paid $35 for it.

 

[Handyandy23]

I think I've explained numerous times whey Koken is mid-tier. You don't like hearing that for some reason, yet criticize ME for not owning a Koken - admit you don't own one - and then proceed to tell me how Koken is better than mid-tier. Okay.



Uhmm, you don't really look at spec sheets on food, or chocolate ice cream for that matter. I can look at a spec sheet on a car and read a review on a car and have an opinion on a car -- all without every having to buy that damn car. You seem to suggest that we have to own every damn thing we evaluate. If that were the case, why would anyone bother to buy Consumer Reports or read Car & Driver?



So many are so happy - based on what? A few YouTube posts and a couple people on GJ that may own a particular Koken ratchet for a week or two?



I did buy something else, so yeah, I really did not find Koken's offerings all that enticing. I certainly love the mid-tier price point, and the mystique of being an old Japanese tool company -- but other than that, I'm not finding their offerings all that appealing. But for somebody that defends Koken so ardently, it's a bit of a surprise you also haven't purchased one by now.

Like I said in my last post (a part which you chose not to quote for some reason), find me anywhere I've said anything defending Koken or promoting them. I've said from the start I don't own one, and my stance is that trying to make your opinion sound valid based on what you read on "data sheets" is disingenuous.

And please, the whole point of things like Consumer Reports is so that people can read honest reviews BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY USED THE PRODUCT so they can decide without having to purchase everything themselves. If Consumer Reports was "let's get a blathering buffoon to write why he doesn't like this thing he never tried" I don't think anyone would pay any attention to it. In this case you're directly arguing with people who have used Koken ratchets to tell them why you think they're wrong. Like calling up CR and telling them they're wrong on recommending a product you've never used.

Clearly you're just trying to make this discussion into whatever you want it to be, because you still seem to think I'm promoting Koken specifically, when it should have been obvious long ago that I'm only trying to promote honest feedback and sound logic.

 

[Mr_John]

Like I said in my last post (a part which you chose not to quote for some reason), find me anywhere I've said anything defending Koken or promoting them. I've said from the start I don't own one, and my stance is that trying to make your opinion sound valid based on what you read on "data sheets" is disingenuous.

And please, the whole point of things like Consumer Reports is so that people can read honest reviews BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY USED THE PRODUCT so they can decide without having to purchase everything themselves. If Consumer Reports was "let's get a blathering buffoon to write why he doesn't like this thing he never tried" I don't think anyone would pay any attention to it. In this case you're directly arguing with people who have used Koken ratchets to tell them why you think they're wrong. Like calling up CR and telling them they're wrong on recommending a product you've never used.

Clearly you're just trying to make this discussion into whatever you want it to be, because you still seem to think I'm promoting Koken specifically, when it should have been obvious long ago that I'm only trying to promote honest feedback and sound logic.

What are you even babbling about? I've said that some of the people arguing in favor of Koken ratchets have said they DO NOT OWN OR USE THEM! Yes, one or two people on this thread have used them - so now we're going to base everything on a very small number of people who have actually used Koken, and some of those JUST purchased a Koken in the last few weeks and just played around with it in their hands? Sure, some other people have used them for actual work, but that's maybe one or two people on this thread. Also, I've stated over and over that I'm not trashing Koken, I'm just questioning placing Koken up there with Snap On, Matco, and certainly KTC's Nepros line.

So, back to Consumer Reports -- interesting that you say that you MUST own the tool to comment, then say it's ok to use a third party publication like CR when you did not own the product. I don't think your opinions are very consistent -- also, I have not commented on qualities such as "the feel in the hand" which others have commented on. Ratchets are not automobiles after all, there's not that much to them, but the devil is in the details. It's hard to get over the detail that No. Other. Premium. Ratchet. Maker. Uses. 20 Tooth. Mechs. Not that I think Koken is really "premium," but they are clearly high quality - like a Toyota Camry is high quality, but isn't a Lexus, even though they're made by the same parent company.

So, let me make it easy for you since you have a habit of misstating what I write:

o The Koken finishing and the fact that it's made in Japan are both pluses
o Koken's long history as a tool manufacturer are a plus as well
o There are a small number of anecdotal comments about "smoothness" of Koken mechanicals, and that is a plus
o The price on SOME Kokens for sale in the US are very reasonable at under $50, and that is also a plus for a Made in Japan ratchet

On the negative side of the ledger

o Koken appears to be mostly gray market in the US, with only one official distribution channel that nobody is buying from
o Koken warranty is a big question mark - even Mr Haznet, himself, has stated he has directly contacted the company, and they want you to ship the ratchet to them (in Japan???), and then they might warranty it under their limited warranty program, yet nobody has any experience with Koken warranty claims
o Koken's mechs have teeth counts as low as 24 teeth which is really questionable - even if the manufacturing is very precise, no other major ratchet manufacturer is using such a low tooth count - this brings into question whether these low tooth mechs create too much ratchet engagement arc (requiring too much clearance) when used on modern automobiles
o Koken's pricing is all over the board, which has a lot to do with their lack of distribution in the US - some of their basic ratchets can be obtained on Amazon for about $42 or so, but their nicer 45 tooth offerings with the black handles are selling on eBay for over $100

 

[M6erfan]

... Also, I've stated over and over that I'm not trashing Koken, I'm just questioning placing Koken up there with Snap On, Matco, and certainly KTC's Nepros line.

You seem to be the only one here making those comparisons.

 

[Mr_John]

Just like the ratchets you've never even held - you lack experience with modern manufacturing. I work in a manufacturing facility as part of my job - I work on CNC machines that range from $80,000 to $3,000,000 every single day.

Even factoring the machine cost, the cost of tooling, the machine operator's pay and other costs (electricity, maintenance, etc..), the knurling on that handle would cost about ~20-30 cents. There's maybe about $5 worth of CNC machining operations for the ratchet total.

Even if the grips weren't machined, they still had to get there somehow. I can promise you getting consistent fine quality like that out of forging dies would be essentially impossible in large scale manufacturing.

You may work on big expensive machines - great, but is tight access really a concern on these giant industrial machines, vs the application most will use them for -- vehicles?

I doubt it only costs 20 to 30 cents to machine knurl a forged ratchet like that. The underlying cost of the machine, consumable parts like the high end machining drill bit, electricity, useful life of machine, maintenance cost (I assume you don't work for free), etc -- and these costs are in JAPAN, where it costs a bit more to manufacture than China. So, your 20 cent per unit cost is likely - wrong.

So, if they're not machined, and I'm about certain they're not -- then how else were they made? Why can't the meticulous Japanes manufacturer use closed forging to make those knurls? Still not clear what your explanation is.

Oh, and finally, I was looking for more info on Koken, and not surprisingly, I'm finding a lot of the hits in google coming back to GJ.


The above said, here's a not-so-glowing review from a "senior member" of GJ all the way back from 2011...

Default Re: Koken ratchets - Who out there's used them?
I have some I got cheap... They work great. The only problem is the catalog says the quick release are weaking because of the hole in the drive gear. Also most of the ones I have are updates to the old plomb/proto design. While it is great, it is also very corse... I want fine tooth ratchets for my money. I do like the stuff and it is great, just not a big fan of the ratchets, everything else I have tried I like.
__________________
WTB: Plomb Pebble, 4766 breaker bar.

 

[Mr_John]

You seem to be the only one here making those comparisons.

Look at my last post. I cited another "senior" GJ member from 2011 calling the Koken wrenches nothing special, and "coarse."

 

[M6erfan]

Look at my last post. I cited another "senior" GJ member from 2011 calling the Koken wrenches nothing special, and "coarse."

Missed the point completely, on both counts...

Edit: Lol, you went back almost 10 years to find one post. And the post was talking about "corse" as it relates to tooth count, not feel.

Wonder how far you need to go back to find S-o ratchet complaints?

Just... wow

I'm going to follow the advice in my sig line

 

[Mr_John]

Missed the point completely, on both counts...

Edit: Lol, you went back almost 10 years to find one post. And the post was talking about "corse" as it relates to tooth count, not feel.

Wonder how far you need to go back to find S-o ratchet complaints?

Just... wow

How many times must I state that I did not comment on "feel." Please tell me when I've talked about how the Koken ratchet feels in a negative connotation? Please.

Also, I did not "go back 10 years," I did one simple google search that pulled up a 10 year old post on the first page. It's not as though I was methodically searching through a decade of GJ forum posts.

I'm not here to defend Snapon. I, personally like them - if you can get them for the right price, then they're great tools. Also, Snapon corporate is excellent at honoring warranties -- not something that even YOU can claim regarding Koken. Or do I need to remind you of your own 2016 posting? Oh, what the hell, here it is...

Default Re: FYI regarding koken tools and warranty.
BTW, a recent Ko-Ken USA warranty experience (very positive) from another GJ'er...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=319245



Edit: I dug up the email I had from Koken a few weeks ago, here is their response regarding warranty replacements...

"We do honor warrantees but we like to have the tools sent back to examine why they broke and give advice for handling. We typically have our seller send us their returns and honor the warrantees on a case by case basis."

Sounds reasonable to me...
-
Last edited by M6erfan; 11-16-2016 at 10:20 AM.

What you conveniently left out is WHERE Koken wants you to send those ratchets - and whether it was on your own dime (which it appears to be - and I'm guessing they want you to ship them to Japan unless you bought them from the one and only authorized distributor in the USA).

Also, what is this a science experiment or a warranty program? While Koken is figuring out why your Koken wrench broke, are you then ratchet-less until they are able to do their forensic investigation - or do you have any evidence they actually honor warranties? It seems to me that most people here have already stated they're going to "self-warranty," which seems to suggest, they have little expectation in a simple process dealing with Koken Corp - especially when the ratchets were purchased gray market.

 

[M6erfan]

...or do you have any evidence they actually honor warranties?

Your posts are filled with conjecture and fantasy. I'm done with this thread after this...







The whole thread...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319245

 

[American Locomotive]

You may work on big expensive machines - great, but is tight access really a concern on these giant industrial machines, vs the application most will use them for -- vehicles?

You completely missed what I said. I don't work on "giant industrial machines". I work on CNC manufacturing machines that MAKE things like we're talking about in this thread.

I doubt it only costs 20 to 30 cents to machine knurl a forged ratchet like that. The underlying cost of the machine, consumable parts like the high end machining drill bit, electricity, useful life of machine, maintenance cost (I assume you don't work for free), etc -- and these costs are in JAPAN, where it costs a bit more to manufacture than China. So, your 20 cent per unit cost is likely - wrong.

Once again, I work with CNC machines every day. I know the costs to run them, how fast they operate, and what it takes to make a knurl like that. Right here, in the U.S., it would cost about 20-30 cents to machine that knurl.

Our high-end CNC machines typically bill at $300-400/hour. A knurl like that could be made on our cheap swiss machines that would bill at $150/hour. So about 4 cents/second. That knurl could be made in 10 seconds. So yeah, the 20-30 cents may have been a little optimistic, but we're talking 50 cents worst case.

The company I've worked for has been contracted out to make tools for major tool manufacturers. I can tell you that a hand tool we made for one of the largest american tool manufactures - that they would sell for ~$50, only costs about $2 to make, and we sell it to them for around $8.

 

[M6erfan]

You completely missed what I said.

He does that a lot, except he's not missing anything.

 

[Mr_John]

Your posts are filled with conjecture and fantasy. I'm done with this thread after this...







The whole thread...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319245

That was a hex end socket they warrantied, and not a ratchet. Regardless, he never says WHERE he shipped it to. Did he ship it to Japan? I'm guessing you don't know, but if you don't know - we are back to what I said, originally, you have to ship items back to Japan at your own cost. How much did it cost him to ship a 5mm hex socket back vs what the actual cost of the socket was?

 

[visionguru]

Wow! 300+ replies and 11000 views, this thread is still going.

Workmanship is in each detail. You can't judge workmanship from pictures without actually owning the tool? Seriously?

Respect has to be earned, not given. Now let's look at the pictures I borrowed from fellow GJers and the internet:
View media item 94580View media item 94579
Have you noticed the big gap at the flex as indicated by the arrows? No, that's not camera angle. The leftmost ratchet is the same ratchet flipped over, which is Koken's "highend" zeal series.

Look at the circled portion, are those decent stamping or chrome?

Here is another Koken ratchet:
View media item 94578
The standards have to be really low in order to say these:

... Koken ratchets have extremely high workmanship. The chrome is excellent and the mechanisms are extremely precisely manufactured. ......

Koken's letter stamping is also extremely sharp, consistent and detailed -
........

According to Koken catalogue (page 309), the maximum torque for 1/4" ratchets is less than 60 ft-lb. Snap On is 90 ft-lb. This actually doesn't matter, because Koken is never intended to be used on rusty fasteners, they are probably designed to be used on an assembly line, where room is not an issue, torque is not an issue, fluid is not an issue. Koken didn't even try, yet Koken is considered a competitor to Snap On by the Koken apologists.

Let's look at Koken's main product: sockets
View media item 94601View media item 94598View media item 94599
Good workmanship? or crudely made

I don't own any TopTul sockets. From this picture, TopTul seems to have much better workmanship than Koken. Much higher quality stamping at least.
View media item 94602
Everybody has different standard. There is no right or wrong.
To me, Koken is probably bottom of the barrel that marked "made in Japan". An industrial socket maker.

 

[Mr_John]

You completely missed what I said. I don't work on "giant industrial machines". I work on CNC manufacturing machines that MAKE things like we're talking about in this thread.

Once again, I work with CNC machines every day. I know the costs to run them, how fast they operate, and what it takes to make a knurl like that. Right here, in the U.S., it would cost about 20-30 cents to machine that knurl.

Our high-end CNC machines typically bill at $300-400/hour. A knurl like that could be made on our cheap swiss machines that would bill at $150/hour. So about 4 cents/second. That knurl could be made in 10 seconds. So yeah, the 20-30 cents may have been a little optimistic, but we're talking 50 cents worst case.

The company I've worked for has been contracted out to make tools for major tool manufacturers. I can tell you that a hand tool we made for one of the largest american tool manufactures - that they would sell for ~$50, only costs about $2 to make, and we sell it to them for around $8.

Wait a second, let's step back. Just because a CNC machine CAN do something in 40 seconds does not mean it DOES do something in 40 seconds. We're talking about a production line of thousands of $40 + Koken ratchet handles. In the example you're providing, a well paid machinist is sticking an item into a CNC machine, correct? It's not actually going down a production line and being CNC machined in 40 seconds per tool. Also, in order to machine a round object like that, it would need to be held in a lathe like tool, so that it could be rotated while the CNC machine milled those diamond shapes.

Again, I've seen things that are machined, and I've seen things that are forged and I've seen things that are just stamped - and machining definitely gives something a much more "expensive" and quality appearance. Again, take a handgun as an example. On better metal framed handguns over $500 - $600, you'll often find very high quality machining, especially when it comes to the stippling / knurling on the trigger guard and/or grips.

As an aside, here's another interesting post from another "senior" GJ member regarding Koken ratchets:

Default Re: Koken ratchets - Who out there's used them?
I didn't know Koken was Plomb in Japanese!

Same type of insides that were used on old Plomb and Herbrand and probably others. The 24 tooth count sounds about right for some of the vintage styles also.

The great thing about that design is that there is very little back drag. They are very smooth.
I don't remember the old stuff having the 2 tooth pawl.....all I remember is single tooth but I could be wrong.

Like Holeshot mentioned, 24 teeth could be a problem especially in restricted areas. Those 1930's-50's cars had a lot more room to work around.

Thanks for the pics UK Steve! Any idea why they use such a low tooth count?
Last edited by philw; 02-08-2011 at 08:41 PM.

 

[jimmyin3D]

I love my Koken Zeal flex head ratchets but they are different from Snap Ons dual 80s. They are both meant for different tasks.

The Snap On is strong, tried and true. Their design of high tooth count backed by their customer service/warranty makes it that most people have at least one of heir ratchets in their toolbox. They have tons of different styles and types of ratchets. However they are more expensive to own than most (even used) and a bit larger considering there head thickness.

The Koken Zeals are also very strong but combined with a thinner profile. They do only have 36teeth but combined with their pawl design is very reliable. Also creates very low backdrag which again is helpful in tight access areas. Very smooth ratcheting action, one of the best manufacturers out there. Fairly inexpensive to own, however warranty is only handled by a few online vendors.

I own ratchets from both companies because they compliment each other very well.
Both manufacturers are amazing but I wouldn’t compare Koken directly to Snap On. Koken is a master in socketry items and ratchets. Snap On has a much wider range of general and speciality tools. I would compare Koken to Proto, the durability for industrial use. Not flashy just nice precision made tools.

 

[Handyandy23]

I love my Koken Zeal flex head ratchets but they are different from Snap Ons dual 80s. They are both meant for different tasks.

The Snap On is strong, tried and true. Their design of high tooth count backed by their customer service/warranty makes it that most people have at least one of heir ratchets in their toolbox. They have tons of different styles and types of ratchets. However they are more expensive to own than most (even used) and a bit larger considering there head thickness.

The Koken Zeals are also very strong but combined with a thinner profile. They do only have 36teeth but combined with their pawl design is very reliable. Also creates very low backdrag which again is helpful in tight access areas. Very smooth ratcheting action, one of the best manufacturers out there. Fairly inexpensive to own, however warranty is only handled by a few online vendors.

I own ratchets from both companies because they compliment each other very well.
Both manufacturers are amazing but I wouldn’t compare Koken directly to Snap On. Koken is a master in socketry items and ratchets. Snap On has a much wider range of general and speciality tools. I would compare Koken to Proto, the durability for industrial use. Not flashy just nice precision made tools.

What is this? An actual logical post by someone who owns both?

I'm not sure if this post is reliable or not though, because it's completely missing pictures of non-critical features circled in MS Paint showing slight discoloration, or discussions about what manufacturers process was used on the knurling.

 

[Handyandy23]

This discussion on knurling has gone so deep I don't even know what the original point was. Why do we care what machining process they used to create it?

Also the Zeal is their top tier ratchet and it has a plastic handle. The knurled one is the cheapest, most basic option they sell.

 

[JBH]

The ratchet on the right is harder to get a feel for. It could be a reflection, it could be damaged/scratches from use. Or it could be a rough machined finish that wasn't polished out. It's hard to tell, but all of the Koken ratchets I've held (three different ones) were perfect. If it's new, and came out looking that bad - then Koken doesn't have an excuse for that - it should have been better.

While it has been used, dropped on concrete driveways, etc., I think the primary issue here may be the very poor photography skills of the fellow who took that picture.

The ratchet looks like the well-finished piece of machinery it is in person.

 

[Skin]

Is Hazet "mid-tier?"

For ratchets? Yes. Had a good number of them and sold them right off. Everything is good except for the ratcheting action itself. Very crude for today. They're built like clubs too which isn't great. Whats in a mobile tool kit depends on region and whats on hand. Just because you might see a any given brand next to something expensive doesn't make the tools magically better than they are.