The GDS Skunkworks, 4 FN 27's Shop Projects

[zmotorsports]

Best of luck to you Pat in your search for work/life balance. I found it harder when I was young but the last couple of years I have seemed to have it dialed in a little better.

My problem is I realize I am getting older and don't have the energy I once did and I want to play more but don't have the money to retire yet. Otherwise I would have no issues just playing with my own stuff.

I wish you the best in your goal setting.

 

[dr_clyde]

I am much younger than you are Pat, and at the beginning of my career as a business owner and entrepreneur. However, I have been told that I am an old man trapped in a young body.

Many of my best friends and acquaintances are in their 50s, 60s or older. Most all of them are business owners or retired business owners. And I use the word "retired" loosely. One of my customers and friends owned a body shop most of his life. Did very well for himself. Retired due to health, I suspect, but you can't keep him out of the shop. In his 70's, he's prototyping attachments for walkers so you can stand upright easier with less fatigue, and he's selling them like crazy!

Some observations.

You don't get to be successful in business by not being passionate. You obviously are very passionate about metal forming and the sheet metal business, or you wouldn't be where you are.

Success follows hustle and drive. They guys who put in the time and effort reap the rewards and when you pair that with passion, you usually find a personality that tends to put 100% of themselves into whatever they're into. They just don't do "meh".

I see that with your shop and your hobbies. Nothing you do is "meh". You don't half *** your career or your hobbies. Shooting for instance, ****, you're better armed than some small countries!

You can't just switch it off. You are wired different, as most business owners are, I've discovered. It is VERY hard to let go, especially from something you built from scratch and poured so much of your life into. Work/life balance is kind of a funny myth when your work IS your life. Its not just a job that gives you a gold watch after 30 years.

You obviously are able to retire whenever you choose, but if you are still happy to wake up, come into the plant, sit down at your desk and start looking at prints or call a customer, then I see no reason to stop.

But, if you find yourself wanting to be at home tinkering on your guns or on your sleds more often than not, maybe its time to look at taking some more time off and see what happens.

"Retirement" just means you can switch you attention to your house, family and hobbies 100%, instead of including your job in that.

 

[sberry]

I am jealous. Not cause of stuff but that can have something to do with it. The dr has good business drive and Pat has it in spades. I know a lot of owners too. They have some things in common make them good or bad. They usually "want" something that is part or most of the drive,,, the race track on weekends has lots of examples of this.
I been self employed most of my life in one way or another. I am not scared of hard work but I am not disciplined enough to be good at real business and money doesn't interest me,,, sort of bores me and this is a fault along with not "wanting" and this involves specifics mostly. I would have been way better off if I had a demanding hobby.
When I was younger could pull the deals out as I needed them but its harder than it used to be despite being wayyyyyyyyyy better at the actual work and execution.

 

[4 FN 27]

I think what LXCam was hinting at that (at least how I interpreted his comment) is that you don't seem like the type to sit around in a rocking chair sipping tea all afternoon. If you retire to "have more time" to work on projects, I suspect you'll be just as busy (if not more) as you are now, just with different things. Things you probably would be more passionate about and find more fulfilling.

Being an engineer type, you're used to looking at things pragmatically. Do the same for this decision about retiring early. What is the upside if you stay another 20 years? What do you have to gain/lose? What if you walked away tomorrow? Is there a compromise in between those two extremes (perhaps gradually over the next few years) that nets you the greatest benefit?

I do understand what you are saying about not wanting to walk away from something you built for fear that things might go sideways without you there to keep an eye on things. The reality is that you're going to have to let it go someday. Better to do it on your own terms than to be forced out by some health issue or old age, right?

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just trying to highlight a few things you probably already know and have considered.

Thanks BD...no I am not one to sit on my hands all day. I do need something to do. I don't vacation well...I typically come back from vacation to sit at my desk a recuperate...LOL...

My brother and I a transitioning the company where we play less of a roll in the management and growth. A challenge to say the least. Hard to hand over the reins but we are working on it. Have a great group of committed people here that we can count on...but still hard.

The credit for our success goes to the men and women on the floor...they get it done. Without them we are nothing.

Best of luck to you Pat in your search for work/life balance. I found it harder when I was young but the last couple of years I have seemed to have it dialed in a little better.

My problem is I realize I am getting older and don't have the energy I once did and I want to play more but don't have the money to retire yet. Otherwise I would have no issues just playing with my own stuff.

I wish you the best in your goal setting.

Balance...yep...need some of that.

I hear you on the energy...I miss the days where I could drive from the shop here to Charlotte to pick up motors...21 hours straight. Leave on Friday back on Sunday...or pull an all nighter to get ready for a race or take care of a customer. Now I have to get 4-5 hors of sleep or I am not worth squat.

But push comes to shove I'll still do what it takes.

I am much younger than you are Pat, and at the beginning of my career as a business owner and entrepreneur. However, I have been told that I am an old man trapped in a young body.

Many of my best friends and acquaintances are in their 50s, 60s or older. Most all of them are business owners or retired business owners. And I use the word "retired" loosely. One of my customers and friends owned a body shop most of his life. Did very well for himself. Retired due to health, I suspect, but you can't keep him out of the shop. In his 70's, he's prototyping attachments for walkers so you can stand upright easier with less fatigue, and he's selling them like crazy!

Some observations.

You don't get to be successful in business by not being passionate. You obviously are very passionate about metal forming and the sheet metal business, or you wouldn't be where you are.

Success follows hustle and drive. They guys who put in the time and effort reap the rewards and when you pair that with passion, you usually find a personality that tends to put 100% of themselves into whatever they're into. They just don't do "meh".

I see that with your shop and your hobbies. Nothing you do is "meh". You don't half *** your career or your hobbies. Shooting for instance, ****, you're better armed than some small countries!

You can't just switch it off. You are wired different, as most business owners are, I've discovered. It is VERY hard to let go, especially from something you built from scratch and poured so much of your life into. Work/life balance is kind of a funny myth when your work IS your life. Its not just a job that gives you a gold watch after 30 years.

You obviously are able to retire whenever you choose, but if you are still happy to wake up, come into the plant, sit down at your desk and start looking at prints or call a customer, then I see no reason to stop.

But, if you find yourself wanting to be at home tinkering on your guns or on your sleds more often than not, maybe its time to look at taking some more time off and see what happens.

"Retirement" just means you can switch you attention to your house, family and hobbies 100%, instead of including your job in that.

Great observations Doc...food for thought.

I do go over the top but I don't know any different. In my younger days had I listened to all the nay-sayers I would not have done 80% of the things I have set out to do. I remember one day in 1990 my BIL and I were at Brainerd International raceway watching the cars making passes. There was this Chevy II that did a burnout and sounded just like a Pro Stock Car. I looked at him and said I am gonna run Pro Stock someday. He laughed.

When I took the seat of a used Pro Stock car so many told me I was crazy...Aug 2004 I made my first Professional pass at a national event. Second pass I had the opportunity to have Warren Johnson pull up behind me when I was waiting for the crew to pull me back to the Trailer. I walked up to him and told him he was my childhood idol and someday when I grow up I wanna be just like him. He said "cut 6 inches off the f'ing legs and that would be a good start." We both laughed and he said he would stop by after the day was done. He did...not to many races after that I got to stage my car against him. I lost the 1 dollar bet we had...

Passion...follow it. It will lead to good things.

I am jealous. Not cause of stuff but that can have something to do with it. The dr has good business drive and Pat has it in spades. I know a lot of owners too. They have some things in common make them good or bad. They usually "want" something that is part or most of the drive,,, the race track on weekends has lots of examples of this.
I been self employed most of my life in one way or another. I am not scared of hard work but I am not disciplined enough to be good at real business and money doesn't interest me,,, sort of bores me and this is a fault along with not "wanting" and this involves specifics mostly. I would have been way better off if I had a demanding hobby.
When I was younger could pull the deals out as I needed them but its harder than it used to be despite being wayyyyyyyyyy better at the actual work and execution.

Thank you sberry...I admire your approach. Doing what you do takes a lot of hard work and I respect that. Some will never understand the metal, emotional and physical effort it takes to get out of bed and "do" the day as your own boss. The accountability to the business and the employees and their families is a tremendous amount of pressure at times...but with the effort comes the reward. The reward can be different for all of us. Some it is money, some it is success and other it is the accomplishment. Each has it's own motive which can create good and bad business leaders. For me it is accomplishment.





Over the last couple of weeks I crossed a couple of other things off the bucket list...I went to a Machine Gun Shoot. About 30 shooters and 150 Machine Guns...I couldn't believe my eyes. They ranged from Glock Pistols to a 50 Cal Browning.

I was there to learn...one of my retirement goals is to get a FFL Class 2 License and maybe re-mil a few of these fine weapons from days gone by.

I did take a pull behind the 50 Cal...one of the ost controllable Guns I have run.

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Not on the bucket list, but I did run a little project on the Water Jet. At the plant we did prototypes for a customer and they had a revision change adding a cutout to the back side of a display tray.

Typically we do these in the Laser but the Paint raises hell with the quality of cut and takes 1 or 2 parts to get it dialed in. They needed all 8 pieces. No room for error.

So I made a fixture basically creating end caps to bolt on and then sandwiched the part up against the X-Y Fence I made.

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I cut a couple of test squares in the area to be removed to get the correct off-set to get the cutout in the correct position. Had it set after one test part. I then uploaded the DXF and processed it. Started cutting...worked awesome. A very nice clean edge and did not harm the paint at all.

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Took about 3 1/2 hours to revise all the parts. Rinsing and drying them was the time consumer. Let them air dry over night before packing them up and bringing them back to the plant.

The customer is happy and we saved them a ton of money and time rather than remaking them.

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Back to the bucket list...I have a friend of mine who is a Vietnam Vet. He spent 4 years on an Aircraft Carrier as a Electronics Aviation Specialist. He stays active volunteering with the MN Air National Guard Museum and love old aircraft.

A few years back he took me to a WWII "Fly-in" at Homan field in St Paul. He told me he always wanted to fly in a war bird. Well the opportunity presented itself when a mutual friend who is an Aviation Photographer sent me an email saying they had 5 seats open for a flight on a B-25 Bomber.

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I replied with a sign me up...2 seats. One for me and one for George. George wanted to fly in a P-51 (very rare to find one with a jump seat in it since that is where one of the fuel takes goes as understand it) or a 2 up trainer like a T-6 Texan which he got me a ride in last fall. George is also big and 76 years old so climbing into the back seat of one of those would be difficult if not impossible.

I tried to surprise him with the flight but he works part time delivering parts around the Midwest for a local dealership and I needed to make sure he had the time off since the flight was in the middle of the week. I told him about the flight 3 weeks prior and he was ecstatic to say the least.

I am in the middle, George is to the right in the photo as well as the other "passengers". The Plane Captain, "Driver", Flight Engineer and Pilot in training are on the left in order.

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George and I got there about 2 hours early so we could check out the museum and walk around the plane. At that time we were introduced to the Driver and asked him what the flight plan was. He told us they usually fly East and head south depending on MSP Airport approach. We asked if they could fly up towards Stillwater and head west to the VFW Post in White Bear Lake (both of us grew up there) and George is on the Board of the VFW. He said he would have to check with the Plane Captain.

Just prior to boarding the Plane Captain asked George and I where we wanted to go and we told him. He said he had never flown that route but if we were able he would try.

We got clearance...we took off and headed east until we got to where the St Croix meets the Mississippi and headed north. Once the wheels were up the Captain got on the com and told us we were free to move about the cabin...move about the cabin...there is not much room...LOL...George and I were in the jump seats behind the Captain and Driver. Another gentleman was in the "Well" just below us. At his feet is a tunnel about 24 inches wide and 18 inches tall where you can lay on your back and slide up to the nose. The Captain told us we could spend about 4-5 minutes up there and then switch.

The Mississippi:

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Wheels Up:

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When It was my turn I slid up there. What view...I only spent a minute because this trip was for George and I knew it would take longer for him to get through the tunnel. And he wanted to get pictures of the VFW.


From the Nose Gunner position:

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As George got in the nose we approached Stillwater, MN and I got behind the driver again taking pictures. We made 2 orbits over Stillwater. The old Bridge in the foreground and the new bridge aft.

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About the middle of the second Orbit George appeared in the well telling me later the photo ops were better from up top. So we headed east and just happened to pass about 3/4 of a mile from my house...yep I got a picture. I had sent my Wife a text to get outside and take pics as we passed by. Well she got the text about 2 hours after we landed...LOL...but she heard us.

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About a minute after we went past my house the Captain asked for directions over the com. I started to guide him in. We circled White Bear lake twice and George got some awesome pics (I am still waiting for my a thumb drive from him).

White Bear Lake:

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From there we headed to the State Capital in St Paul. We started an orbit when MSP got on the Radio and told us we were encroaching on their airspace. The driver started a hard bank to the right and we got down to about 500 feet when he leveled off and start regaining altitude...what a rush...

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At that point the Captain instructed us to buckle up and prepare for landing. George was seated in the Well and looked down and I could see the tears running down his face. His fist bumped me with a big smile.

Sometimes we have to share our bucket list with others...it was the best money I have ever spent.

When we got back on the ground George was invited to go up in a Huey as a Vietnam Veteran. He accepted and I asked if I could tag along as his emotional support animal...LOL...denied.

These are wonderful experiences for our Vets and I am happy to support them.

 

[LXCam]

You're a good man Pat, that's a great story.

 

[OldNeons]

How great! So nice that you could share the gift of that flight with your friend. I was recently honored to be a guardian (helper) on a Honor Flight to DC. As you witnessed with George, special events like this mean the world to our veterans. I see that a similar group of historic planes are coming our way this fall. B-24, B-29, AT-6 AAAAAAANNNND a 2 seat P-51! It's $2k for the Mustang ride though, so I may settle for the open cockpit Steerman biplane?

The gun trip looks like it was good too. I have a buddy with a 50 cal I'd like to get behind one day. I've heard a few stories from my dad on those from his time as a Marine in VietNam.

It's nice that your company has a waterjet at its disposal now, LOL. That is one of those cases where the right tool just makes the job work. Speaking of making the job work, I wish you the best in your continued search for that work/life balance. It's tough, but you are in the drivers seat - a place you know well. As I watched my 72 year old Dad/best friend finally retire last October, then have to go through triple bypass in December - all I can say is make every day count. They don't make more of two things - land and time. You've got a beautiful piece of land with a world class home/shop, now it is working out the making/taking time. Enjoy!!

 

[4 FN 27]

I have a little lull in the action here at work after a few 20 hour grinds over the last couple of weeks...need to get better at updating this.

Last weekend I noticed my Air Compressor was cycling more than it should. So I started looking for leaks...first by listening. That doesn't work well for me since I have the hearing of a 170 year old. I got out the Soap and Water and stated brushing all fittings and joints in the copper. Came up with nothing. No bubbles.

I noticed on of the Drains on the Filter/Separators had a little droplet of water on it so I depressurized the system and pulled the bowel off to replace the drain. I keep them in stock. That is when I noticed 2 little spots on the outside of the Bowel as I unscrewed it. They were pin holes.

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I took the Bowel over to the Sand Blaster after running a line from the Compressor Tank direct to the Blaster and knocked the scale off the inside. Wow look at the pitting!!! No wonder it was cycling?

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The Bowels are 20 years+ old. Lucky for me I had a couple of spares and replaced the whole Assembly. Glad I planned ahead and put unions on each end of the assembly so I can easily pull it from the system to do maintenance. Wish I had put a by-pass in around the whole Assembly so I wouldn't need to run a hose from the tank for the Blaster. A project for another day.

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I spent a couple of days in Buffalo New York looking at all the new equipment at LVD Strippit. My 5th visit and tour of the Plant. Love seeing these big machines getting built. And love the history of the building.

Back in the 40's it was the Buffalo Arms Company. They built Machine Guns for the WWII War effort. The Welding Bay is where they would test fire the Belt Feds into the hill behind the plant.

They have me come out every 3 or so years to give my opinion on the Machines and to tell them what we would like to see coming down the pipe for Fabrication Equipment. And they listen. They are going back into production on the Turret-Fiber Laser Combo Machines. they had the first one up on the Mill getting Machined. I can't wait to see it operational.

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While in the Demo Center I saw a very nice Press Brake, their PPED Series. Nice machine for the money. Intuitive Control, Servo Controlled Hydraulic Ram and a 4 Axis Back Gage. I have the Salesman coming out this afternoon to present me with a quote for the home shop. Looks like I might be selling the ol'Accupress...but the new Machines are a little too smart and there are somethings they will not let you do so I may keep the Accupress for a little while until I learn to work around the "smart machine".

One of the principles of LVD was there and we had a great conversation over lunch on Employee Retention. They are in the same boat as us. There are very few people coming down the pipe with the skillset required to build these machines. We traded ideas and now our 2 companies Human Resource Dept Heads and CFO's are working together to develop deferred comp programs for perspective long term employees and training programs. A great investment in the future and even greater opportunities for our employees.

On the home from I am wagging war against the Moles. Trying a few different traps and techniques. By far my favorite is the Molecat Bunker Blaster. It uses a .27 Caliber Blank to kill the vermin. Only issue is you have to dig them up to confirm the kill or wait a few days to see if the damage they cause doesn't continue.

The old snap traps work well to but are kind of hit and miss. But you always know eh you get one. they are in it. I have had about a 25% kill ratio with the snap traps.

My motto: "F-you I will win!!!" So far 4 exterminated and about 6 more to go.

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Well the lull is over...the next project has arrived in the email...back to work I go!!!

 

[Stuart in MN]

My brother and I a transitioning the company where we play less of a roll in the management and growth. A challenge to say the least. Hard to hand over the reins but we are working on it. Have a great group of committed people here that we can count on...but still hard.

The credit for our success goes to the men and women on the floor...they get it done. Without them we are nothing..

There are consulting firms out there who specialize in helping business owners make that transition, it may be worth talking to one at some point. Do you envision turning it over to the employees through stock options or something like that, or selling the place outright, or? The hardest part is probably putting a value on the company - besides just annual sales, you need to factor in property and equipment values, intellectual property, and a whole bunch of other things.

The guy I work for initially had a little company when he hired me (less than ten of us altogether) but about ten years ago he sold us to a larger firm (over 800 employees today). I don't know all the details but I do know it was a lot of difficult work for him to figure out just what the company was worth (and we're engineering consultants so there was very little physical property to worry about), so I would imagine it will be orders of magnitude harder for you and your brother with your company.

Even though it doesn't sound like you'll completely retire any time soon you never know what the future will bring. Heaven forbid you get hit by a bus, or have health issues or something, but it's one of those things that's best figured out sooner than later, while your body and mind are still working like they're supposed to.

 

[sberry]

I need to start over. I should have went back to Ironwork in 90 and again on 2010 or so. It's a lot harder, I blew the dust off a small rig the other day and fixxed it up a little so I could handle some calls. I had got out of most outside work along the way and it's way tougher today than when I was in my early 20''s and even 30 something. I coasted for so long I am darn near stopped.

 

[sberry]

As for the moles I know the Moleman. He says they got tabs like gummies, said Ace maybe sells them. They take a dowel, poke hole and drop them in. I need to do this too.

 

[4 FN 27]

There are consulting firms out there who specialize in helping business owners make that transition, it may be worth talking to one at some point. Do you envision turning it over to the employees through stock options or something like that, or selling the place outright, or? The hardest part is probably putting a value on the company - besides just annual sales, you need to factor in property and equipment values, intellectual property, and a whole bunch of other things.

The guy I work for initially had a little company when he hired me (less than ten of us altogether) but about ten years ago he sold us to a larger firm (over 800 employees today). I don't know all the details but I do know it was a lot of difficult work for him to figure out just what the company was worth (and we're engineering consultants so there was very little physical property to worry about), so I would imagine it will be orders of magnitude harder for you and your brother with your company.

Even though it doesn't sound like you'll completely retire any time soon you never know what the future will bring. Heaven forbid you get hit by a bus, or have health issues or something, but it's one of those things that's best figured out sooner than later, while your body and mind are still working like they're supposed to.

Great observations Stuart. It is never to early to start a Succession Plan and as you age it gets more important.

The Business has an evolving plan with options depending on what time of exit. Retirement, untimely demise or transition. It is forever changing but there are markers in the sand.

We do have our "Professionals" involved in the drafting of these articles.

More so the transition of doing less in the business is a direction of increasing the value of the business. Less involvement in the "day to day" means the business is not too dependent on one person. The team makes it function and the perspective buyer will find value in this as they would be buying a running entity. Please note the company is not for sale...lol...I have to say this because I know a few of our customers employees are on here...loud and clear we are not selling. Now if somebody approaches with a "I'd be a fool not to sell offer" all bets are off...

In the beginning everyone wears many hats and you capitalize on peoples skills increasing the work load until you get to a point you just add someone. Typically those "day to day" persons are overhead. Overhead needs to remain below a certain percentage of sales in order to maximize profitability (note "profitability" is a 13 letter word not a 4 letter word). Hourly positions go up and down depending on the hours of production on the floor. This is variable and is flexed using overtime and Trial for Hire Employment (I hate the word Temporary Employee as our goal is to make anyone who starts here permanent).

Adding the people on the "Day to Day" side has increased the overhead and reduced the profitability but in any buyers sense that would be a trade off for "sleep insurance" knowing the ship will sail should one of us or both exit the business under any circumstance.

We do an informal Business Valuation every year to see if the Shareholder Value is increasing at least a the same pace or greater then the S&P500 or NSDAQ. This is a good tool/indicator to see if the ownership is doing what they should to create success and security for all involved. After all our people we employ are our greatest asset...not to mention like family.

I love this stuff...

 

[4 FN 27]

I need to start over. I should have went back to Ironwork in 90 and again on 2010 or so. It's a lot harder, I blew the dust off a small rig the other day and fixxed it up a little so I could handle some calls. I had got out of most outside work along the way and it's way tougher today than when I was in my early 20''s and even 30 something. I coasted for so long I am darn near stopped.

It is never to late to start anything if you have the passion for it.

I have a friend who retired at 40 after selling the family Oil Business. His plan was to start another venture at 50 years old. Today he is 75 and still talking starting his venture...I hope he does. But as everyday goes by it gets a little harder to motivate ones self.

This is why I don't sit down. I have heard others mention in these forums they don't sit down after work, they go out in the garage because once their *** hits that couch they find it hard to get motivated.

Git er' done sberry!!!

As for the moles I know the Moleman. He says they got tabs like gummies, said Ace maybe sells them. They take a dowel, poke hole and drop them in. I need to do this too.

I've done the poison worms but I'd rather get the confirmed kill. And we have a couple of Bald Eagles and Owls hunting the property. I'd rather save them the upset stomach.

Last night I set up the Gauntlet...5 snap traps in one area.

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Got the ******* after 2 years of destruction in this area.

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I also found out Friday I have a helper...I have seen this guy roaming around the property on and off. I took Friday off to go shooting with some of the local Law Enforcement guys and when I came home and was unloading my truck in the shop I spotted him with a Rabbit in his mouth. This must be one of the Rabbits dinning on my Wife's plant.

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Hope he/she sticks around for a while. I noticed the Mole activity is down about 90% lately. I thought it might be a Fox but I am thinking the Cat its taking care of them...and the squirrels. I have seen a squirrel in the yard since last fall.

 

[4 FN 27]

Friday night I got a text that changed my Saturday game plan. I was going to come in the office and wrap up some quotes and designs. The test read "Tomorrow is going to be a great day to go flying!".

I have a friend with a Helicopter...who am I not to change the plan? My reply was "What time should I be there and I'll bring fuel money..."

My ride:

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We took off from Lake Elmo Airport approx. 8:45 am and headed south east over Afton MN crossing over the St Croix River and headed north. Perfect weather. No wind, a little hazy and "hot" enough to fly with the doors off.

We headed north on the WI side of the river to Taylors Falls and headed back south.

Looking north. You can see the Hudson Bridge in the foreground and the Stillwater Bridges in the distance.

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Our house was right in the flight path. He circled the house and I shot some video and a few pics.

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My Wife was outside weeding her mulch beds and happened to get a shot of us this time. Yep that is me hanging out the side of the Copter.

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Awesome trip...plan on doing it as many times as he offers. I might have to get my Pilots License???

While putting the Helicopter away I bumped into an old friend who did all of our Electrical work here at the plant until he retired. He is a Pilot too and stopped to see if my friend with the Copter could do some welding for him. He is a very good welder and a Salesman/Robotic Specialist for one of the local Welding Supply outfits we have done business with for 30+ years.

We chatted and I told him about my Shop at home and he plans on stopping out in the next couple of weeks. He has a few more projects beyond the scope of my friends abilities in his Hanger.

Then it was back to the home shop. I started to make the Back Splash for the Water Jet. Water Jets are messy. I like to contain the mess. I noticed once and while it will splash my Tubing Rack. So I thought I would reduce the gap where it splashes through between the Tank and the X Travel.

I had a couple of 4 x 10 sheets of Styrene. I cut a strip 12 x 81 inches and wrote a program for the Jet to cut the mounting hole pattern. Being that the machine can only cut 55 inches in X and Y and there is no repositioning I ran half the part and flipped it and ran the other half.

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The I cut the Mounting Plates from .100 5052-H32 Aluminum and formed them.

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I only had 2 Magnets for the Mounting Plates so I will order a couple more from McMaster today so I can wrap this up.

That brings me to right now...I came into the office and got done what I set out to do yesterday. And "barrow" some 10-32 Pem Nuts from inventory for the Mounting Plates...Off to the Hardware department I go...

 

[sberry]

I wish I had a passion for this. I really.did everything cause I had to and it was something I was good at. I should have went in to stock car racing to give me a purpose, money kind of bores me and really isn't an incentive. It's kind of a character fault. I really did as well thru the hall as I ever did on my own. If I could pry myself away would head to the electricians. I would have but scared they would sent me to the box plant 7x12s. It didn't used to bother me but that's grueling even when you are young. Not sure how I would cope with fussy pipe welding, I could go to the row but need a new truck. I am a little ripe for hanging iron which is what I would just as soon do,, I probably find something where they let me read the pictures and instructions if I worked a little.

 

[4 FN 27]

Hope everyone had a nice Independence Day!!!

Been a productive weekend so far...now that I am winning the War on Moles I noticed a Muskrat in the pond in front of the house. Every night at dusk head down there with my trust CZ 452 in 22LR Suppressed. Haven't seen him yet...he may have been just passing thorough.

In the past they have tunneled in towards/under the driveway. Hit their tunnels ounce while mowing and the tractor damn near flipped over on the side hill...I would have ended up in the pond.

Made for the perfect sunset.

View media item 94135
On Friday the ol'Featherlite Trailer went down the road to the new owner. Funny the guy who responded to the add...we knew each other in business. He owns a Water Jet company and Fab Shop. Who am I not to sell to the competition??? 15 years this trailer helped me out. Sold it for $300 less than I paid for it new. Take of it and it will take care of you.

View media item 94136
This morning I made 4 corner posts for a Pit Cart my buddy in MO is building for his sons Go-Cart Racing venture. He bought an Electric Golf Cart and stripped it of everything he will need to make this thing work. Knowing him it will be a work of art when completed.

View media item 94137
He send me a Master Cam file which I converted to a DXF and imported it in to CadKey...a quick and easy software for developing flats and Water Jet DXF's. Added all the bend lines and everything else I would need to form this part.

View media item 94144
Next it was off to the Press Brake. Already had the tooling I need in the machine...my lucky day. Used a .031R Punch and a .551 Bottom Die. Typed in a quick and dirty program and started forming.

View media item 94139
Lots to think about on a hat channel as simple as they seem. Everything compounds as tolerances stack. All Bends must be parallel and perfect or the overall part will not come out especially when you are forming off of other bends. I also had to put a retract in the program so the Finger Stops don't get shoved backwards as the part starts to sweep up as it bends.

Next comes the 1 inch Radius...had to barrow some tooling from the plant. Getting this to work out was a bit of a challenge. Based on the design the tooling ended up being an interference fit...meaning at the bottom of the stroke the part crashes into the tool. The interference was only .020 so tonnage and perseverance plays out for the win.

View media item 94140
You can see where the part crashes on the over-form allowing it to spring back to where it needs to be. Again retracts on the Back Gage were required.

View media item 94141
After I check the part I cam to the conclusion a 60 ton machine at full press just wasn't quite enough. Had to spin the part 180° and hit again. When using big Radii Punches it is hard, rather impossible to pick up the center of the tool again. So I improvised and brought the tooling together and laid a level on the part...close enough and gave it another squeeze at 60 tons.

View media item 94142
This was enough to get them within .020..close enough.

The finished project and the tools to do the dead...

View media item 94143
No I am off to find the next thing I need to do around here.

 

[dr_clyde]

I need to get my own press brake. They are just the most useful tools. That Accurpress you have would be PERFECT for my shop.

Nice work

 

[cvairwerks]

I need to get my own press brake. They are just the most useful tools. That Accurpress you have would be PERFECT for my shop.

Nice work

I'd bet that Pat would make you a heck of a deal if he could get one of those new Strippit PPED's for the house shop at a bargain price...

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I need to get my own press brake. They are just the most useful tools.

Yeah, I'd love to have sheet metal working tools. Everytime Pat posts a project I think about all the possibilities a press opens up.

Badass as always!

 

[dr_clyde]

I'd bet that Pat would make you a heck of a deal if he could get one of those new Strippit PPED's for the house shop at a bargain price...

This is my official “dibs” if Pat ever sells the Accurpress. Hahaha

 

[4 FN 27]

I need to get my own press brake. They are just the most useful tools. That Accurpress you have would be PERFECT for my shop.

Nice work

They do come in handy. The issue is Tooling. It is like having a 1/2 Drive Ratchet and a couple of Sockets. The difference is Sockets cost dollars. Tooling cost Hundreds of dollars each and there is a top and bottom tool...and I need to mention they are never the perfect length even when purchased segmented.

 

[4 FN 27]

I'd bet that Pat would make you a heck of a deal if he could get one of those new Strippit PPED's for the house shop at a bargain price...

This is my official “dibs” if Pat ever sells the Accurpress. Hahaha

Not so fast gents. The newer Press Brakes are so codependent with data input that it puts you at risk of not being able to out think the machine. I compare it to our old Turret Presses compared to the new. The old presses basically have a Clutch and Fly Wheel which actuates the Ram and it has no idea what to do except make the hit. The new Hydraulic Machines need all kinds of input to determine if the hit can actually happen.

In the world I live in in fabrication we push those limits and the newer machines need a higher level of out thinking to make it happen. By design they are trying to preserve themselves.

Until I totally understand how to get around "pushing the envelop" with the new machine...the "Hammer and Anvil" (Accupress) is not leaving the property.

But CV...this post does give you first right of refusal...that and $10.99 will get you an Ice Mocha at any Airport Starbucks.

 

[4 FN 27]

Yeah, I'd love to have sheet metal working tools. Everytime Pat posts a project I think about all the possibilities a press opens up.

Badass as always!

Careful what you ask for. You might get it.

When people ask me how or why I got into Sheet Metal??? My reply is I have too many home projects that require it.

Thank you!!!

 

[4 FN 27]

Time for a little update...

We have had one of the wettest summers I can remember. I have never seen the water levels as high as they are since we moved in. I found the soft spot down by the pond on the south side of the property. Have to get the Backhoe out to pull the 997 out. Sunk before I even knew it.

A prime example of when one should know when to quit. As soon as it dropped out from underneath me I should have went and got the Hoe and a Chain...but no I gotta try and get un-stuck. Now I have a mess to clean up.

View media item 94670
Waging war against the Moles is productive...snagged one more of the little Bastards. Have one more in the front lawn that is avoiding the traps.

View media item 94671
Friday night I headed to N. St. Paul for the Friday Night Car Show. Word had it that Chip Foose was there. I didn't see him but I did run into my long time buddy with his 67 Impala SS 427 he purchased brand spank'in new in 1968. I park the Z next to him in his "guest parking place" as he calls it.

His car has about 50K miles on it. Mostly to and from the track in the days of old. I had the privilege of installing the Roll Bar back in 2001-02 when he started running in the 10's. Spent many hours working on it. It was his 67th birthday to boot. I made it be known that should her decide to sell the car I get first dibs. The original Motor, Transmission and Rear End are at my old shop mothballed. He said either his Wife or Son will call me because he will be dead when the car is sold. I get it...and his Wife agreed I get first dibs.

View media item 94672
This weekend the BIL, Nephew and I worked on the Chevelle that has been tying up my hoist for quite some time...like since the day I moved into the Shop. I decided to dedicate some time to the project so we can get it off the hoist and get his 55 Chevy Pick-up in there and raise his motor up an inch...another project I'll journal about. Monday we texted each other about our parts orders we promised each other we would place...$1500 between the 2 of us the UPS man will be delivering on Thursday.

Part of the process was to paint the Rotors...I broke out the 1970's stove my other BIL gave me. Works great for baking paint onto parts. Been using it since about 1988.

View media item 94673
And tonight when I got home from the Plant I Jetted out some parts the shop is struggling with on the Laser. It is from a prominent Tool Manufacturer here in MN head quartered out of Michigan...NDA's prohibit naming them. I'll submit the samples to the QC Lab tomorrow and see if the Jet is holding the Profile of a Surface call out of .0098 on the interior features. And get a capability study to boot to see if I can run all 330 pieces and not have the risk of any out of print parts.

View media item 94674
My work load at the plant has lightened a tad. I might be able to get ahead on a few of the Skunkworks Projects.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Pat, why is the laser struggling with the parts? Also, can you tell us more about the "capability study"?

 

[TTMotorsports]

Laser usually doesnt hold more than .01 tolerance without a lot o tweaking and constant checking. .0098 is **** way of saying better than what most normal shops call perfect.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Laser usually doesnt hold more than .01 tolerance without a lot o tweaking and constant checking. .0098 is **** way of saying better than what most normal shops call perfect.

Huh. I always thought a laser could hold a few thousandths without issue. I guess I've never had a part cut where a tolerance has been critical.

 

[4 FN 27]

Pat, why is the laser struggling with the parts? Also, can you tell us more about the "capability study"?

When I say struggling I should say the Laser, Operator and Material.

When cutting thicker Material like 4130 or 4140 there are contaminants in the scale left by the Hot Rolling Process even after "Pickling" that effect the Laser Beam thus disrupting the cut causing issues on a part that needs to maintain .0098 Profile of a Surface.

Think of it like welding through Paint. The Water Jet doesn't care.

A Capability study verifies the process is predictable to achieve the desired outcome of meeting the inspection criteria of the part. In this case it is the .0098 Profile of a Surface. The sample of 9 pieces although small, once inspected will tell us whether or not the Water Jet can do the process with accuracy and precision.

I like examples that people can relate to...

If we shot 9 rounds at 100 yards and put all the rounds in a 1 inch circle 6 inches to the right of the Bullseye we have precision without accuracy. We have proven the Rifle (Water Jet) and the Shooter (Operator) has the ability to complete the task but need to move the average left 6 inches.

If we make the adjustment shifting left 6 inches and we group 9 rounds in a 1 inch circle on the Bullseye we have achieved Precision and Accuracy and the likelihood of a stray is minimized creating confidence in the process and should assure us of not making a bad shot (bad parts).

Here is a pic of the 2 parts, Laser and Water Jet stacked. You can see the imperfections in the Laser part in comparison.

The imperfections are created by contamination and heat soaking the part. As the Laser cuts the center out it creates a "heat island" allowing the heat only to dissipate into that isolated area causing more issues burning the tips of the geometry features required to maintain .0098 PoS. The tips can burn away causing a great potential for an out of control process. We don't want that.

This part (the complete weldment, not just the part in the pic) when completed sells for $61.52 at 390 pcs. We cannot afford to do it twice or have any fallout.

Thus Capability Studies are beneficial to ensure over all quality.

Does that make sense?

 

[bradpac]

That comparison with the two parts stacked along with the explanation does an excellent job of showing the difference in precision of the two methods.

Thank you for taking to time to illustrate it.

 

[4 FN 27]

Laser usually doesnt hold more than .01 tolerance without a lot o tweaking and constant checking. .0098 is **** way of saying better than what most normal shops call perfect.

Our Lasers, CO2's and Fibers, Pallet Changers and Sheet Draggers hold .004 consistently. The CO2's require more attention to maintain the Beam as the Optics (Lenses, Mirrors and Optics cooling system) erode over time and the Fibers by nature require less as there are no optics.

Push comes to shove we can hold +.001/-.000 all day long on holes sizes when required...there is a cost associated.

The closer we can hold all tolerances in the early operations the better the outcome at the end. Makes everybody's life easier and the product better.

Most shops accept "this is the best we can do." In our shop the expectations are high and the attitude is "Hold my Beer and watch me make this part the best while being productive and efficient." We are known throughout the industry as a high quality shop with great Engineering Horsepower. That is our differentiator that sets us apart from our competition. We hear it everyday from our customers. And it is right where we want to be.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Wow, awesome information! Thanks!

 

[bdbecker]

Laser usually doesnt hold more than .01 tolerance without a lot o tweaking and constant checking. .0098 is **** way of saying better than what most normal shops call perfect.

Talking about constant tweaking and checking... during college, I worked part time at a CNC machine shop, mostly making components for hydraulic pumps. One of the lathe parts I ran had a +0.0004"/-0.0000" callout on the overall height, total height was around 6" or so. It took me a month or two to figure out the process on that machine. Without going into all the details, I'll just say it took me a good hour and a half to get that machine warmed up and running "consistently" each day (consistently is in quotes because fine tuning was only needed between every couple of parts instead of every part). This was on a top-of-the-line machine (for its time) that was purchased specifically to run this part. At the time I hated running that job at the time, I kind of look back on that time fondly now - just me and my machine trying to achieve (basically) perfection.

 

[sberry]

Yes, was in a plant where they wait till the end and the product is in the truck to check the qc. No one even consider (300 employees) to check it when they set the machine up. I agree about qx early,,, its easier to get sloppy as it goes, difficult to get it back.

 

[manwithtools]

I like examples that people can relate to...

If we shot 9 rounds at 100 yards and put all the rounds in a 1 inch circle 6 inches to the right of the Bullseye we have precision without accuracy. We have proven the Rifle (Water Jet) and the Shooter (Operator) has the ability to complete the task but need to move the average left 6 inches.

If we make the adjustment shifting left 6 inches and we group 9 rounds in a 1 inch circle on the Bullseye we have achieved Precision and Accuracy and the likelihood of a stray is minimized creating confidence in the process and should assure us of not making a bad shot (bad parts).

That is an excellent analogy, one I'm going to use with our young engineers. It will be fun to see their reaction once they process the relevancy in their mind.

 

[cvairwerks]

But CV...this post does give you first right of refusal...that and $10.99 will get you an Ice Mocha at any Airport Starbucks.

LOL...Pat, I couldn't even fit the press in my driveway, much less the shop right now! I'm about to play "move stuff around and in and out of storage" to get set up for 6 palletized machines that I need to get moved to the house in the next week or so....2 ea CP-450 36" throat riveters, a 36" Libert nibbler, a Nichols 8 mill, the base to my Edlund drill press and a clapped out B&S #2 mill that I had to take.

 

[dkmc]

They do come in handy. The issue is Tooling. It is like having a 1/2 Drive Ratchet and a couple of Sockets. The difference is Sockets cost dollars. Tooling cost Hundreds of dollars each and there is a top and bottom tool...and I need to mention they are never the perfect length even when purchased segmented.

I'm thankful I was able to get a Diacro 17-48 press brake a number of years ago, and it came with one upper and one lower. But every time I go looking (and drooling) at other tooling like a goosneck, etc, I get sticker shock.

 

[4 FN 27]

Yes, was in a plant where they wait till the end and the product is in the truck to check the qc. No one even consider (300 employees) to check it when they set the machine up. I agree about qx early,,, its easier to get sloppy as it goes, difficult to get it back.

You can't inspect quality into a part. It has to be built into it!!!

We have a total quality system design to do just that. Starts right at the first operation and the first part in each operation.

Final inspection is just an audit to make sure everything was complete to the customers specifications.

 

[4 FN 27]

That is an excellent analogy, one I'm going to use with our young engineers. It will be fun to see their reaction once they process the relevancy in their mind.

My greatest mentors in life use analogies and it is my preferred way of learning and remembering.

 

[4 FN 27]

LOL...Pat, I couldn't even fit the press in my driveway, much less the shop right now! I'm about to play "move stuff around and in and out of storage" to get set up for 6 palletized machines that I need to get moved to the house in the next week or so....2 ea CP-450 36" throat riveters, a 36" Libert nibbler, a Nichols 8 mill, the base to my Edlund drill press and a clapped out B&S #2 mill that I had to take.

Moving and rearranging is never fun. Can be dangerous too...if and when I add this LVD Brake I may have to rearrange. I'll be calling in the Riggers for that. Been using the same Riggers for 30 years and the owner allows the guys to work at my place on the side using the company equipment.

 

[4 FN 27]

I'm thankful I was able to get a Diacro 17-48 press brake a number of years ago, and it came with one upper and one lower. But every time I go looking (and drooling) at other tooling like a goosneck, etc, I get sticker shock.

The ol'Diacro 17-48 is where I got my start forming parts. Loved those machines. In the shop I use to work at they had 4 of them with NC Back Gages on them.

Came across one of the machines in a warehouse about 15 years ago. Bought it for $8K just to have it. Then one day I found out they traded it off for a new Amada Press. Needless to say I was a bit pissed off. Tried to get it back but it was already sold by the time I found out.

I hit Craigslist about once a week and see tooling every once and a while. There are a few places around the country that sell that style of tooling by the pound.

A 1/32 Top Punch can do almost any material up to 1/4 inch. But you need a variety of Bottoms based on the thickness and tonnage to make the Bend Deductions work out. My rule of thumb is 5 times Material Thickness for the smallest opening and 6 times for the biggest to hold tolerance. I break this rule everyday.

Only having 17 tons you can start out with a big bottom opening and get the bend to 90° and come back and restrike it (coin it) with a smaller bottom and that will produce pretty good results. More work but an easy way to work around the light tonnage machine when it comes to thicker Material and or longer bends.

 

[jjeffries]

Is William Edwards Deming still required reading for young production engineering students? Thanks, John/CT.