Plumbing in a third oil tank

[wellpoison]

I’m looking for some advice from all you GJ plumbers out there.

I’m trying to figure out the best way to plumb the fill and vent line for a third oil tank. Right now I have two tanks. The fill line directly enters the first tank, once the first tank is full the oil overflows from the first tank via a 2” line located on top of the tank and goes directly into the second oil tank. This tank has a vent line that goes outside. Easy enough there.

I’m thinking I should “T” the line that fills the second tank and use that to fill the third tank and move the vent to the third tank as well.

Any help would be great!

 

[Jackfre]

Go to NFPA’s site and look at NFPA 31. They have the correct way shown. I can’t locate my last copy or I would show it. Make sure you do this correctly. I was on a job where the oil Co. overpressured a dual tank set-up due to improper piping and blew the bottom out. Also check the amount of residential storage you are allowed. It may have changed, but last I checked you were limited to 660 gallons. Two 330’s.

 

[yeldogt]

Yes -- check the codes. And your insurance policy !

Good screen name with oil tanks OP .. although these sound like inside.

My insurance company (Chubb) made me install Roth x2 in my last project in PA. Know you can tie three of them together as I remember seeing pictures .. don't know the code/legal ramifications involved.

One of the happier days of my ownership of my current weekend place in PA was the day my two oil tanks came out of the ground. One was a 500g

 

[Jackfre]

In my view the Roth tanks are the best. I remember when they came before the 31 Committee for approval. Compared to the steel 275 and 330's they were head and shoulders technically above the US and Canadian offerings. They offer 100% containment should a leak develop. On the Committee we would also have "storage amount" discussion in residences. That was in the early '00's. I am not sure if they have allowed increased storage since then. it seems that 660 gal is enough to turn your home into a Superfund site.

 

[skippydoo]

Don't use a steel tank! Fuel oil is now ultra low Sulphur which is causing severe corrosion. A steel tank isn't going to last very long anymore.

 

[tyme2par4]

Don't use a steel tank! Fuel oil is now ultra low Sulphur which is causing severe corrosion. A steel tank isn't going to last very long anymore.

What?...
There are probably millions of steel tanks in the US. I don't think they are all just going to start failing because of a new fuel.
I don't think I've ever seen anything other than a steel tank, and oil is the primary heating fuel around here.

https://www.steeltank.com/Portals/0/Tank_Talk_2009/SEPT-OCT_2009_Tank_Talk.pdf

 

[rlitman]

In my view the Roth tanks are the best. I remember when they came before the 31 Committee for approval. Compared to the steel 275 and 330's they were head and shoulders technically above the US and Canadian offerings. They offer 100% containment should a leak develop. On the Committee we would also have "storage amount" discussion in residences. That was in the early '00's. I am not sure if they have allowed increased storage since then. it seems that 660 gal is enough to turn your home into a Superfund site.

I don't think that 660 gallons leaked is enough to turn your home into a superfund site, but the problem is that most leaking tanks are filled repeatedly before the leak is detected. Current designs call for leak-evident systems where that's less of a problem.

Yes, the Roth tanks are excellent. Probably the best residential option I've seen so far.

My understanding is that the threshold of how much oil you can store before requiring a special permit varies by state. I think it is 1099 gallons in NYS.

Don't use a steel tank! Fuel oil is now ultra low Sulphur which is causing severe corrosion. A steel tank isn't going to last very long anymore.

ULS fuel (bio-fuel is even worse) is known to be more likely to have bacterial growth that usually leads to rapid corrosion, particularly in the head-space. The fuel itself is not the problem though.

Keep in mind that a bacterial overgrowth in a plastic (Roth for example) tank can still lead to system shutdown due to filter/screen clogging.

What?...
There are probably millions of steel tanks in the US. I don't think they are all just going to start failing because of a new fuel.
I don't think I've ever seen anything other than a steel tank, and oil is the primary heating fuel around here.

https://www.steeltank.com/Portals/0/Tank_Talk_2009/SEPT-OCT_2009_Tank_Talk.pdf

Sorry, but some of the "facts" quoted in that page are BS, or at least a serious stretching of the truth and a good effort at sweeping a real problem under the rug. And if you've seen a Roth tank, you've seen a plastic tank. Plus more often than not, underground tanks are fiberglass.

Anyway, read some of this:
https://clean-diesel.org/pdf/ULSDStoringSystemCorrosion.pdf
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-07/documents/diesel-corrosion-supplements.pdf
https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/...rosion-of-Copper-and-Steel-Alloys-Sowards.pdf

 

[yeldogt]

When I sold my house with the Roth tanks in 06 and bought my current w/ the underground -- Chubb had no concern about the underground .... because they said that don't insure!

Having owned properties in NJ -- I know all about states that regulate. The regulation in NJ with tanks (inside and outside) is over the top ... same with asbestos.

PA has increased the regulations. Even back in 06 -- my heating oil company had to inspect the property/tanks/ inside before they would fill the tanks for the first winter.

 

[86turbodsl]

What is the mechanism for the increased corrosion from ULSD?

I would have thought that reduced sulfur would improve corrosion because the resultant lack of H2SO4 creation.

 

[rlitman]

What is the mechanism for the increased corrosion from ULSD?

I would have thought that reduced sulfur would improve corrosion because the resultant lack of H2SO4 creation.

It's a little buried in the links I posted, but the thinking is that acetobacter eating either ethanol found in the fuel from additives or glycerin that's found in small amounts in bio-diesel releases acetic acid, and the acidic fumes in the head-space lead to rapid corrosion.

Apparently the sulfur may inhibit the bacterial growth somewhat, or at least lead to a different flora environment.

 

[86turbodsl]

Interesting reads. didn't know vinegar could cause corrosion that severe.

Thanks

 

[walrus]

I wouldn't pressurize a 275 to fill another 275 but that may be code, not sure?

It used to be bacteria growth was a result of water being in the tank and the bacteria grew at the interface of the water and fuel. I haven't heard of any failures due to ULSD in steel tanks. Certainly can see the evidence of corrosion in ethanol(E10) containing tanks. Nasty stuff for steel.

 

[yeldogt]

I have never seen a daisy chain filling system ..... the Roth use a manifold that manages the inward flow pressure to each tank from above.

Filling tank "B" with a pipe from "A" is pressurizing "A" -- any issue with pressure -- it's coming out the vent ....... or overpressure to the tank.

Every house I ever owned with more than one standard tank -- each was filled separately.