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Truck stuck on lift

lemmy999

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I recently got a Dannmar/MaxJax M6 lift. I raised and lowered it several times with no load and it worked well. So I put my Mazda B2300 on the lift as a test. I know trucks are heavier in the front so I estimated the center of gravity to be closer to the front of the truck. The truck was 20" from each post and the posts were lined about where the steering wheel is. Going up went smoothly but when I started to come down it wouldn't budge.

When I release the hydraulic pressure, the hoses would "relax" and the hydraulic cylinders could be wiggled (they do not have load on them), but the carrier wouldn't come down and the locks were not engaged. I tried raising the truck more then lowering with some wiggling but no luck. I put jack stands under the frame on drivers side and screwed them up until they took the pressure off of the M6 lift arms and at this point the M6 arms and carrier dropped maybe 1/4 - 1/2" and loaded the hydraulic piston. At that point (with no load) the carrier moved up and down freely. I lowered it all the way and applied much more grease to the entire track it rides in, then raised it to the top and applied more grease to the bottom of the track. Then when I put it back under the truck and put just a little load on it it would stop moving down again.

I was able to do the same thing on the passenger side. There seemed to be more weight on the rear arms of the lift (based on looking at the attached pictures and other things). The blocks that slide up and down in the post guides are tilted toward the back when you look down from the top (see pics). I then tried putting the jack stands under the rear of the vehicle and raised them to take some of the weight off. At this point the blocks the carrier ride on in the rail seemed to be more centered in the rail (not wedged toward the back like they are in the picture). At this point the drivers side would drop, but the passenger side wouldn't. The passenger side blocks still seemed slightly angled toward the back and I suppose this is why it wouldn't come down. It seems the slightest imbalance of a few tens of pounds will prevent the carrier from dropping.

I called Dannmar and they talked me in to lifting the truck then wiggling more aggressively as I got a 2nd person to press the lever on the power unit. This time (with more grease and wiggling the back of the truck instead of the front), I got it to come down some and after a while had the truck back on the ground.

I just assumed I was way off on the center of gravity and this caused the binding. However I used 2 jacks and placed them on the frame at the same position on each side of the truck. I started at the back and moved them up a few inches at a time until I got to a point where the truck would easily "see saw" back and forth. I assumed this was the true center of gravity. This was only about 5 inches from where I had centered the lift.

So is this typical? I would assume that being within a few inches of the center of gravity would be good enough. I really didn't expected this lift to be that sensitive to getting the center of gravity perfect. BTW, the posts are both perfectly square (124-1/16" from back of the base plates on both sides, and also checked with a couple of really long levels I have). Also the posts are nearly perfectly plumb. The level says 89.7 degrees on one and 89.9 on the other. Putting any of the shims under the lift makes it closer to 90.8 degrees (so more off in the opposite direction). So it is as plumb as it can get with the shims.
 

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BillK

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Sounds like something seriously wrong. When I had my Challenger lift at my last shop I had cars and trucks probably way off the cog and never had a problem with the lift coming down. If I am reading what you did correctly it is extremely dangerous and you are lucky the truck didnt come slamming down and kill someone. If it was me I would get one of their authorized installers out to look at it and figure out what is wrong. If you have to pay them so be it. It is too dangerous to be fooling around with.
 

Sevenhills1952

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Sounds like something seriously wrong. When I had my Challenger lift at my last shop I had cars and trucks probably way off the cog and never had a problem with the lift coming down. If I am reading what you did correctly it is extremely dangerous and you are lucky the truck didnt come slamming down and kill someone. If it was me I would get one of their authorized installers out to look at it and figure out what is wrong. If you have to pay them so be it. It is too dangerous to be fooling around with.
Good advice! If it's new it should have a warranty. Can't believe they would have you mess with it like that.
When I first started reading I thought maybe it had a safety lock mechanism. Warranty, you shouldn't have to pay anything or assume you did something wrong.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
 

PoorOwner

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Should the block have a little bit of play so it will not bind up?
unless the channel is like, not straight, I don't see how it cannot go down just by gravity.
 

clinebarger

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Should the block have a little bit of play so it will not bind up?
unless the channel is like, not straight, I don't see how it cannot go down just by gravity.

Play in the Carriage "Slides" is what can cause them to bind in the post. I'm not familiar with this lift....But the lifts I've seen bind have severely worn or missing nylon slide blocks.
 
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lemmy999

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Play in the Carriage "Slides" is what can cause them to bind in the post. I'm not familiar with this lift....But the lifts I've seen bind have severely worn or missing nylon slide blocks.

Yes I agree. I am thinking this could be the problem as there is some play in the blocks. I think if they fit more snuggly they wouldn't be able to "wedge" in place and bind.
 
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lemmy999

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It really wasn't as scary as it sounds. The M6 has locks ever 2-3 inches. So it was bound up between locks and could only have fallen at most 1.5". When I said the locks weren't engaged, I just meant that the locks were not what was causing the lift to not come down Also, the jack stands are 2 ton each. So I put them in place and then at that point the truck was more secure than being on the lift. So when I screwed up the jack stands and took the load off of the lift, the carrier/arms on the lift wouldn't drop because the hydraulics were still sealed, and even if that failed the lock would have caught it with 1.5".

The only thing that was a bit sketchy was the rocking the truck back and forth as it came down, which was a Dannmar suggestion and was what worked.

Tonight I just hooked up 1 post and raised the arms/carriage about 25" off of the ground. I put about 200lbs on the one arm and nothing on the other. I then activated the hydraulic release and it came down for a bit and then stopped. I then lowered the weight to 100lb and it still wouldn't come down. I moved 50lb to the other arm so it was perfectly balanced and it came down perfectly. It appears that it has to be almost perfectly balanced for the carriage to lower properly.
 
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matt_i

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Were all of the white lithium grease to be washed out I think you'd find the spot where its binding via the burnished or gouged metal.

I am surprised that its just steel-on-steel, the few vehicle lifts I've been around all had plastic-ey wear blocks presumably something like UHMW to reduce friction on just such occasions where its unequally loaded.
 

CraigStu

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I wouldn't touch that lift again. Get Danmar to send someone out. I spent 25 years as an auto tech and have never seen that happen. Have seen a couple where somehow the left and right locks got out of sync so it was difficult to get it down w/o one grabbing but that's all.
 

Skyking1992

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Sep 16, 2006
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Something is definitely wrong and I'll echo what the others have said - let Danmar take care of this. I have a two post Forward lift. I am currently repacking the wheel bearings on my car trailer. I used just the two rear arms under the bottom of the trailer to lift the back of the trailer in the air. Way, way off center of gravity - still no issues.
 
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lemmy999

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Thanks for the input. I'm going to call Dannmar again this morning.
 

TheShrine

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A similar thing happened to my ROTARY. I had my Corvette up in the air, all the way, and it blew a cylinder! Oil everywhere! Rotary nor the local Lift/Cylinder repair shop would touch it. Neither would give "official" advise either.

They did suggest what they would if it was them.... they didn't want the liability of/for my shop or Vette! I finally Monkey Fingered a way to get the Vette down but it was a sketchy time.

If/when I buy another lift I'll get that "possibility" of support in writing!

Good luck on your.....issue!
 

aka Larry

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A similar thing happened to my ROTARY. I had my Corvette up in the air, all the way, and it blew a cylinder! Oil everywhere!


BTDT. My lift was at the top just past the final lock when the hose blew at the bottom of the cylinder. Of course the car settled on the locks, but the hydraulic fluid made huge mess.

Fortunately I have a buddy that runs a diesel repair shop that was able to repair the hose and get me back up an running.
 
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lemmy999

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A similar thing happened to my ROTARY. I had my Corvette up in the air, all the way, and it blew a cylinder! Oil everywhere! Rotary nor the local Lift/Cylinder repair shop would touch it. Neither would give "official" advise either.

They did suggest what they would if it was them.... they didn't want the liability of/for my shop or Vette! I finally Monkey Fingered a way to get the Vette down but it was a sketchy time.

If/when I buy another lift I'll get that "possibility" of support in writing!

Good luck on your.....issue!

I was surprised they were telling me to rock the car to get it down. The only disclaimer was "if you feel uncomfortable at any time, don't do it".

This has all got me wondering how you would get car down if a cylinder blew. That would not be a good situation.
 

TheShrine

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I was surprised they were telling me to rock the car to get it down. The only disclaimer was "if you feel uncomfortable at any time, don't do it".

This has all got me wondering how you would get car down if a cylinder blew. That would not be a good situation.

A "mechanical" issue is more difficult in my opinion. Some times you can't readily see the problem. With a leak....it's pretty obvious.

A hydraulic issue can be easily seen and addressed....carefully!! If it's a blown line you drop the vehicle on the locks, brace on both ends, and replace the line. It's a closed system so there will be no appreciable leaking and all pressure would have been released along with the fluid now on your car/floor. A bad cylinder is handled the same way procedurally but much much heavier. Above all use the lift's locks AND added bracing on both ends. After my first mishap I purchased two more heavy floor braces!!

The same mess clean up will apply to both mishaps. I sound confident because I've gone through both issues.

Again, good luck and post what you did please.

Not knowing the safer/simpler way: my cylinder lost a seal and started squirting out the upper weep hole. I cut up a beer coaster and made a temp seal and clamped over the weep hole and slowly let the car down.

 

KenC

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Without seeing this closeup, I would guess a machining operation was skipped. The 'blocks' that slide in the channel probably still have a raw/as cut edge rather than having a rounded or angle edge profile. That sharp edge is biting into the channel steel.

the seller owns this problem IMO.
 
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Blk88GT

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Without seeing this closeup, I would guess a machining operation was skipped. The 'blocks' that slide in the channel probably still have a raw/as cut edge rather than having a rounded or angle edge profile. That sharp edge is biting into the channel steel.

the seller owns this problem IMO.

:beer:
 
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lemmy999

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Without seeing this closeup, I would guess a machining operation was skipped. The 'blocks' that slide in the channel probably still have a raw/as cut edge rather than having a rounded or angle edge profile. That sharp edge is biting into the channel steel.

the seller owns this problem IMO.

If you look at the pictures you can see that the blocks too indeed have very square edges.
 
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lemmy999

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Did you set it down on the safety locks and adjust leveling cables? Might help.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

This lift doesn't have leveling cables. It is like the MaxJax but has auto locks. IT is fairly basic. Just a carriage that is pushed up by a single hydraulic cylinder. And the carriage rides on 4 glide blocks inside 2 channels on each side of the post/column.

I think the problem stems from the edges of the glide blocks not being rounded, the glide blocks being a bit too small which allows them to move around and get wedged, and the interior surface they slide on not being smooth enough.
 

tonyciambrone

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It really wasn't as scary as it sounds. The M6 has locks ever 2-3 inches. So it was bound up between locks and could only have fallen at most 1.5".

Have you seen videos of cars falling off lifts before?

They practically never fall through the locks, pads, arms etc. They drop unevenly, tilt and slide or roll almost every time. Don't fool yourself into thinking that truck couldn't have dropped 1.5", and slid right off the lift or turned rotisserie style. Nothing safe about it.
 

turbodave

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This has all got me wondering how you would get car down if a cylinder blew. That would not be a good situation.

Had this happen on a friend's old rotary 2 post lift. Car was up on the lift for the winter, with the arms on the locks. Bad cylinder leaked down and so it had one cylinder up where it should be and one down. We added some fluid and tried to get it evened out and the motor blew before we could do anything.

Ended up using my mid-rise scissors lift and some cribbing to lift the car off the arms of the 2 post, once we swung them out of the way we got the car down just fine. Not sure how we would have done it if I didn't have my portable lift.
 

SGKent

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looking at the photos - the parts are leaning to the driver's side in each photo, and you can see where the parts are wiping the grease off as a result while there is a gap on the passenger side. I would ask myself why there is more force to the drivers side to cause that. You may have multiple causes of binding here.
 

tarmy

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This thread is a great add for NOT buying a Danmore lift...

I would tell them to look on this site and see that they are being roasted for;

Crappy advice
Suspect product
Potential liability of said advice...and product...

Tell them to get out there and fix it...or replace it...
 
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lemmy999

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Have you seen videos of cars falling off lifts before?

They practically never fall through the locks, pads, arms etc. They drop unevenly, tilt and slide or roll almost every time. Don't fool yourself into thinking that truck couldn't have dropped 1.5", and slid right off the lift or turned rotisserie style. Nothing safe about it.

I realize it wasn't an ideal situation but unfortunately the alternative was leaving the truck on the lift indefinitely and never going in my garage or closing the garage door. I did the safest thing I knew to do, I put the truck on jack stands and I did so while the truck was level. The locks were about 1.5" below where the carriage was, but the hydraulic cylinder was there too. As I was putting the jack stand under the car, it would have had to free up and also the hydraulic cylinder go out for it it drop the 1.5" The only time the truck was out of level side to side by more than an an inch, I was not near the vehicle. I tried to lower it and only one side started to drop and it got about 2 inches out of level. Then I raised it back up level.

I do admit that rocking the vehicle was dangerous, but I felt I had little choice.
 
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PoorOwner

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So what did they say? From what the picture shows it seems it’s either poorly engineered or not manufactured right.

Once again ALI certification is not meaningful, because you can get a total dud that kills you.
 
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lemmy999

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looking at the photos - the parts are leaning to the driver's side in each photo, and you can see where the parts are wiping the grease off as a result while there is a gap on the passenger side. I would ask myself why there is more force to the drivers side to cause that. You may have multiple causes of binding here.

The photos are all taken from the top of the lift. The first and 2nd photos are both the top of the drivers side post.

1st photo: This is the upper block and it is leaning in toward the car. This is beause of the weight of the truck on the arms. The lower block under this one would be pushed up against the opposite side. The long side of the block is not touching the side of the post because the truck is on the lift with slightly more weight toward the rear.

2nd photo: It is also leaning toward the truck and also toward the back of the vehicle because of the small imbalance.

3rd/4th photo: Basically the same thing but from the passenger side.

The top blocks are all jammed up against the side of the lift that faces the car door, and the side of the lift that faces the rear of the truck.

The paint on the lift post and in the rails where the glide blocks move is very rough and is not a smooth surface. I think this is just causing too much friction for the lift to come down. The more weight that is on the arms, the more the lower blocks are pushed back hard in to the rear of the lift where the rough paint is.

I attached a drawing (side view) showing where I think the most friction is occurring (B in the drawing)
 

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lemmy999

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So what did they say? From what the picture shows it seems it’s either poorly engineered or not manufactured right.

Once again ALI certification is not meaningful, because you can get a total dud that kills you.

They are not sure what is causing the problem. But they do think it is an issue with too much friction in the channel (from the rough paint). I think the matte paint is a relatively recent change. Every video of a MaxJax lift the paint looks shiny and slick. I'm not sure if the M6 used to be that way or if it has always had matte paint.

So I think they are looking in to the paint issue and also possibly changing the glide block design.

I stepped up to the ALI certified model because I liked the extra locking positions and I thought if it was ALI certified it would be a safer design.......
 

SGKent

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You have a better view of what is going on than I do. That said, in my experience over the years, the tightest spot on anything rubbing leaves a witness mark. In this case the area where the grease is rubbed away most would seem to me to be the tightest point. I've drawn an arrow to where my tired old eyes, cataracts and all, see the tightest spot - all along that side. Is this what you are seeing with the blocks you drew the image of?

View media item 95547
 
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lemmy999

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You have a better view of what is going on than I do. That said, in my experience over the years, the tightest spot on anything rubbing leaves a witness mark. In this case the area where the grease is rubbed away most would seem to me to be the tightest point. I've drawn an arrow to where my tired old eyes, cataracts and all, see the tightest spot - all along that side. Is this what you are seeing with the blocks you drew the image of?


I'm not sure exactly what part of the lift that is pointing to, but it looks right. I made another drawing showing exactly where each guide block is rubbing. The top drawing shows the drivers side post from the top. So you see the top blocks and how the weight of the vehicle pulls the top carriage guide blocks inward toward the truck and also toward the back of the truck since there was more weight on the rear lift arm. That is also where I saw the grease removed.

The lower picture shows the lower blocks. It is still looking down from the top, but it is as if the top part of the carriage has been cut away. Also, the lower blocks are pretty much at the same height as the lower blocks. Whereas the upper blocks are well above the lift arms and toward the top of the carriage.

The previous drawing I posted showed a cutaway angle from the side. It shows why the weight of the truck on the arms makes the top blocks go toward the truck and the rear blocks go away.
 

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tonyciambrone

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I do admit that rocking the vehicle was dangerous, but I felt I had little choice.

I'm not slamming you or anything, I can imagine that when your truck is up there, it's got to come down one way or the next. Just noting that the possibility is always there for a car or truck to come off the lift for anyone reading.
 

SGKent

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the part I was looking at is the side opposite the block. It has a strong witness mark. There is also a witness mark the same width as the tube where it goes into the block on the block side. That almost implies that the width between the block and the opposite side is very tight, perhaps tighter than the block itself. The block seems to be rubbing where the tube goes into it and not outside that perimeter. See the photo below. You may have more than one issue going on.

attachment.php
 
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lemmy999

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I'm not slamming you or anything, I can imagine that when your truck is up there, it's got to come down one way or the next. Just noting that the possibility is always there for a car or truck to come off the lift for anyone reading.

Thank you. I have watched some videos and it really is pretty scary.
 
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lemmy999

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the part I was looking at is the side opposite the block. It has a strong witness mark. There is also a witness mark the same width as the tube where it goes into the block on the block side. That almost implies that the width between the block and the opposite side is very tight, perhaps tighter than the block itself. The block seems to be rubbing where the tube goes into it and not outside that perimeter. See the photo below. You may have more than one issue going on.

attachment.php

Yes, I see what you are referring to. And that does look like it could be another issue.

I completely disassembled one of the posts. I removed the 4 guide blocks and took the sharp edges off of the plastic guide blocks. I then removed all of the grease and sanded the paint where the glide blocks make contact with the inside of the post. This removed the rough feeling of the paint, but the paint is still matte and felt very grippy. So I decided to take all of the paint off of that channel. It wasn't easy because it is difficult to access that with anything that can take the paint off. I then reassembled using just a thin layer of grease. Since I only did this to one post, I couldn't test with a car. But I repeated my test of ~200-250lb on one arm and nothing on the other several times and it didn't bind at all. Also, when I was reassembling the post, the carriage was gliding much more easily than it had before. I'm not sure if it is a fix, but it definitely is an improvement.

I am supposed to hear back from the company when they have a solution, but so far I have heard nothing. I will contact them again this week.
 
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lemmy999

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I just wanted to give an update. I removed the carriage and used a paint stripping disc on an angle grinder to remove the paint where the glide blocks contact the post. I then greased the area with some clear "Super Lube" synthetic grease with PTFE. I then reassembled and put my truck in the exact same position as before to see if it would get stuck again. This time I was careful to not get it higher than the range of my floor jacks. When I lowered it it worked great and had no binding. I repeated several times then started going a few inches higher each time. I ultimately made it higher than when it got stuck and it never appeared to even get close to binding. So it appears the matte paint with the rough surface appears to have been the issue.
 
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