Replacing loud, flickering, dim 8' T12 bulbs with same sized LED

[bedn0009]

Hello,

Trying to help my dad in his shop.

He's got a bunch of 8' T12 fixtures in his shop that put out basically no light and are noisy.

Is there a direct fit LED?

Is there a ballast bypass option that's preferred?

Could someone please get me pointed in the right direction?

A pic of his current bulb attached

 

[Bert_]

Those are high output and should produce quite a bit of light. How high are the ceilings? Might not be the right fixture for the application or not enough fixtures. LED bulbs won't solve those problems.

Might need to change to a different fixture.

 

[bedn0009]

The ceiling is about 7.5 feet. These are so noisy and dim

 

[cybrdyke]

The noise is from the ballast, so if you use a direct fit tube, the noise will still be there. If you choose to bypass the ballasts, you'll have to buy 8' LED HO tubes. These are available, like these from Eiko: https://www.eiko.com/category/1060/list?filter%5B0%5D.Attribute=ProductSpecification.basetype&filter%5B0%5D.Values%5B0%5D=Recessed+Double+Contact+(R17d)
Shipping 8' tubes is expensive and they tend to get broken alot, so that's a PITA.
You have other choices as well. You can buy a "tandem kit", and turn the 2 lamp 8' fixture into a 4 lamp 4' fixture (it's pretty easy). You can get "no-ballast" fixtures and use 4' tubes in them. Just **** them end to end to make an 8' strip. Or, You can just get new LED strip fixtures.
Good luck,
CD

 

[redidbull]

I work at Lowe's in the electrical department and get this question often so did some research. It seems to be a gray area. Older fixtures may work with the bypass while newer ones with electronic ballast may work as is. But there is also the possibility they wont. Seems there is a cut off period with the electronic ballasts that 100% work, but there was no date I could find. If you only are replacing a couple I usually tell people they may want to consider new fixtures. Jim

 

[Platonic Solid]

When those F96T12HO bulbs and ballasts were new, it must have been blinding at only 7.5' mounting height. CD covered all your options. Stick with around 5000 lumens per 4ft fixture.

 

[tonyciambrone]

I did these in my warehouse. https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/137722/TF-8RB422X2T8L11.html

Then you get 4 T8 direct-wire LED tubes of your choosing. Uses existing fixture, no ballast.

worked good for me. I have also used cheaper kits but I like those ones.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In the end, you will be better off to remove the whole fixture and replace them with 4' LED fixtures.

 

[sparky 1971]

Get the kit that changes the fixture to four 4' t8 led lamps and put the ballast bypass tubes in them. The kits are easy to install. You basically take the t12 sockets, ballast, and covers and throw them in a dumpster where they belong. New sockets clip into new covers and the whole thing tek screws to the old fixture shell.

There are 8' t8 led lamps available. I haven't used them so I don't know if the sockets are available in single pin or HO style. I do know that the sales rep I have from the company I use to get my led supplies says they are junk. The lamp is heavy enough that it sags in the middle to the point it looks like it will fall out.

 

[shaggyant]

The noise is from the ballast, so if you use a direct fit tube, the noise will still be there. If you choose to bypass the ballasts, you'll have to buy 8' LED HO tubes. These are available, like these from Eiko: https://www.eiko.com/category/1060/list?filter%5B0%5D.Attribute=ProductSpecification.basetype&filter%5B0%5D.Values%5B0%5D=Recessed+Double+Contact+(R17d)
Shipping 8' tubes is expensive and they tend to get broken alot, so that's a PITA.
You have other choices as well. You can buy a "tandem kit", and turn the 2 lamp 8' fixture into a 4 lamp 4' fixture (it's pretty easy). You can get "no-ballast" fixtures and use 4' tubes in them. Just **** them end to end to make an 8' strip. Or, You can just get new LED strip fixtures.
Good luck,
CD

CD,

I saw replacement eight foot covers once with LED strips integrated into them. Do such things still exist and are they any good?

Edit: I think they were called strip light retrofits?

 

[Jazz1]

I offered my noisy T12's free on Kijiji, gone the same day. Installed 4' T5's and lighting improved 300%, or so I'm told. Its much better.
I put a 4' 4 bulb T8's over my workbench. They are lame compared to the T5's.

 

[sparky 1971]

I offered my noisy T12's free on Kijiji, gone the same day. Installed 4' T5's and lighting improved 300%, or so I'm told. Its much better.
I put a 4' 4 bulb T8's over my workbench. They are lame compared to the T5's.

About 15 years ago, when t5's were the latest and greatest thing, I worked for another shop. We took a bunch of 8' t12 strip lights down and replaced them with 4' 4 lamp t5ho's. After I went out on my own about five years later when the manufacturers warranty was up, we decided that the best thing to do with the t5 fixtures was to throw them in the dumpster and replace them with 6 lamp t8 florescents. I am sure that technology has improved on the t5 since then, but those were junk and I swore that I would never use them again.

I did have one customer insist on t5's for his shop. I made him buy them so I wouldn't have to warranty anything.

 

[cybrdyke]

CD,

I saw replacement eight foot covers once with LED strips integrated into them. Do such things still exist and are they any good?

Edit: I think they were called strip light retrofits?

Yes, they exist and they can be really good. Most manufacturers make their 8' lengths by using two 4' covers. It's easier to make, ship and handle them this way.
Also, this style normally has an external driver mounted on the back side of the cover. That gives you optimal efficiency and also dimming. Get the kind that has a frosted lens, though. The bare diodes are extremely harsh.
CD

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I work at Lowe's in the electrical department and get this question often so did some research. It seems to be a gray area. Older fixtures may work with the bypass while newer ones with electronic ballast may work as is. But there is also the possibility they wont. Seems there is a cut off period with the electronic ballasts that 100% work, but there was no date I could find. If you only are replacing a couple I usually tell people they may want to consider new fixtures. Jim

There are three different classes of LED replacement tubes.
Type A are a direct swap "plug-n-play" replacement but all the ones I've ever seen will only work to replace T8 bulbs in a fixture with an electronic ballast, and the ballast must be left in the fixture. Easy replacement, but more points of failure. All of the GE brand LED tubes that are carried in all the Lowes around here now are this type. Not sure about other areas.

Type B tubes are ballast-bypass tubes that are direct wired to the sockets/tombstones, and are available in single-end or double-end power. These are usually a better replacement option for T12 fixtures since there are few, if any, magnetic ballasts from old T12 fixtures that will work with LED tubes. The single-end power tubes use non-shunted sockets (which T12s use) and supply line and neutral to one socket, while the other end is a "dummy socket" that exists just to hold up the bulb. The double-ended power LED tubes required shunted ends with line going to one socket and neutral going to the socket at the other end. If switching from T12 bulbs with non-shunted sockets, they would have to be shunted with a jumper wire. If switching from T8s, they likely already have shunted sockets. None of the Lowes around here carry either type of Type B tubes in stock, but the double-end power tubes can be special ordered (although only in multiples of 20). Single-end power tubes can not be ordered. Utilitech used to make one Type B tube that was carried in the stores but I doubt they're long gone at this point.

Type C LED tubes run on low-voltage fed from an external driver. I don't have much experience with these, nor have I seen them in local stores.


If you want a list of model and item numbers for the ones that can be ordered, let me know. I rarely get customers ordering them to replace T12's because I can't order less than 20 and they only need a few, so I just recommend a new fixture.

 

[sparky 1971]

The tubes I get work single ended, double ended, and with electronic or, according to the supplier, magnetic ballasts. I have never tried a magnetic ballast, but I did install two tubes in an electronic ballast fixture in my garage just to see if it worked. It's been about two years and everything seems ok. When doing 4' retro's, I always wire them double ended because that's the easiest way. When I buy 8' retro kits or non ballasted strip lights, they come pre-wired for single ended, so I go that route.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Double-end powered ballast-bypass tubes I've seen can be used with either shunted or non-shunted sockets.

 

[Bretny]

Amazon had/has 4ft led intagrated housings for 6 for $39. Is it really worth keeping a old crappy 8ft metal box just because it holds a light bulb you dont want anymore?

 

[Muzzy]

Is it really worth keeping a old crappy 8ft metal box just because it holds a light bulb you dont want anymore?

I mean, why not? The old fixture is already installed, wired, and paid for. It is a quick and easy job to retrofit for ballast bypass bulbs.

 

[Bretny]

So your saving a empty metal box because you dont want to remove it.

 

[Muzzy]

Well yes. Exactly.

Remove it, maybe patch holes in sheetrock, sand, touch up, etc.
Then scrap/recycle/throw it away, probably having to fold it up to make it fit in the trash can.

All to hang up another metal or plastic box? Maybe even one where there are no serviceable components. After all, when the integrated housing fails the whole thing gets trashed, instead of replacing LEDs that fit into the form factor of a fluorescent tube.

Sometimes it makes sense to keep what's there is all I'm saying. If there is no existing fixture I am 100% on board for a designed from the beginning LED fixture.