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Help sizing, positioning and choosing a diy mini split

derekeh

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Sep 6, 2013
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I have a 12x36 area in my garage that I want to heat and cool with a ductless mini split. It has a 12x7 bathroom in that area... So it's actually 2 rooms. Ceiling is 8 ft, 2x6 walls with r19 and r30 over head. One 9x7 insulated garage door on one end, one 3' steel door going outside and one 3' door going to the rest of the garage. What size unit should I go for? I'm thinking of placing it mid way on the 36' exterior wall and angling the vents to blow towards the front and back of the room. It's by my breaker box and also a good spot to put the outside unit. Unless you all think I should put it somewhere else? And any certain brand for a diy? Mini splits aren't too popular in my area so I'm having trouble finding someone to install it. I've been getting estimates of $8,000 for a split duct unit. I also have friends that have retired from heating and air that said they could help. Anyways, here is a drawing to hopefully help show my garage... I drew it with my phone so please don't criticize too much lol. Thank you.

aab8bddb370bc61066ab6c68387bbffd.jpg

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derekeh

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Also I'm in the southern Kentucky area.

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pjp01

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Dec 1, 2015
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Hi,
I installed a Pioneer mini split in my loft. 15x24. Well insulated
I installed it myself so not that difficult. I am in Ontario so below freezing in winter.
Seems to hold 68 when its really cold but that's it. Cooling, no trouble at all on the hottest of days. Cheap units so don't know how long it will last.
I had to add a 20 amp circuit and buy some vacuum tools to draw down the line set.
Also bought the exterior trim package.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DVW6G42/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Hope that helps.
Unit came precharged and all went smoothly for me.
 
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derekeh

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Thank you. I'm wondering if 12,000 btu would be big enough or if I should get the 18,000 btu.

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fitter30

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Jun 23, 2019
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Location
Peace Valley,mo
What are you going to be doing in it and is the unit going to be on all the time? Work on a car that just pulls in it going to be hot or cold. Working with wood or steel tools produce heat. Have to consider these things.
 

tom-ky

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Mar 11, 2017
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Location
Morgantown, Ky
We have a similar setup less the roll up door. 12x40 with a bathroom. About the same insulation also. The guy that did mine said 12,000 would probably be ok but the heating capacity of the 18,000 would be better. So we did the 18,000 and it does great heating and cooling. Sometimes I don’t think it runs long enough in the AC mode as humidity gets a little high. We are close to Bowling Green so the same climate. Hope this helps.
 

pjp01

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Dec 1, 2015
Messages
9
Seems like 12K would be enough as you are a bit further south than my set up. As I mentioned it is the heating which came up a bit short not the cooling. I am not sure it is the size of the unit or just the fact that this type of heat exchanger has its limits when it gets well below freezing. Can't hurt to go with 18K just to sure though.
Also, for installation, I mentioned I had to order some vacuum tools.
You also need a vacuum pump which I already had.
 
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derekeh

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I'll probably go with 18,000 as heating is my main concern. I would use it all winter but probably not all of the warm months.

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MattT

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Feb 20, 2010
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Thank you. I'm wondering if 12,000 btu would be big enough or if I should get the 18,000 btu.

What is the dividing wall constructed from? And is the rest of the garage climate controlled?
 
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derekeh

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What is the dividing wall constructed from? And is the rest of the garage climate controlled?
2x6. The rest of the garage is not climate controlled.

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mike93lx

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Dec 9, 2013
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Richmond, VA
With inverters, the risk of oversizing is not really a problem, AFAIK. I would go 18k and not worry about it.

At 12k, it will have a harder time recovering after you open the garage door.
 

justinjoyal

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Apr 30, 2015
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888
Location
Quebec
Grossly oversizing will still cause problem. I’d put a 9k unit in that area if A/C was the primary concern (and quick recovery was not) ! It’s a small area..

If heat is the main goal then going bigger would be better but be advised dehumidification could be a problem in A/C mode.
 
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derekeh

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Grossly oversizing will still cause problem. I’d put a 9k unit in that area if A/C was the primary concern (and quick recovery was not) ! It’s a small area..

If heat is the main goal then going bigger would be better but be advised dehumidification could be a problem in A/C mode.
Heat is definitely the main concern. Quick recovery is not that big of a concern to me.

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derekeh

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We have a similar setup less the roll up door. 12x40 with a bathroom. About the same insulation also. The guy that did mine said 12,000 would probably be ok but the heating capacity of the 18,000 would be better. So we did the 18,000 and it does great heating and cooling. Sometimes I don’t think it runs long enough in the AC mode as humidity gets a little high. We are close to Bowling Green so the same climate. Hope this helps.
What brand is yours?

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MattT

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Grossly oversizing will still cause problem. I’d put a 9k unit in that area if A/C was the primary concern (and quick recovery was not) ! It’s a small area..

If heat is the main goal then going bigger would be better but be advised dehumidification could be a problem in A/C mode.

Agreed on 9K for cooling. Might even be able to go down to 6K but I wouldn't do that without a load calc.

And I wouldn't go over 12K for heating. That'll probably be enough at the OPs insulation levels and if it isn't a plug in portable heater should be enough extra heat when it gets bad cold. I'd rather deal with slightly higher operating costs than a grossly oversized unit.
 
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dcg9381

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Austin, TX
Thank you. I'm wondering if 12,000 btu would be big enough or if I should get the 18,000 btu.

These are pretty safe to err on the size of "larger" (for cooling). And remember they are heat pumps - if your main function is heating, they lose capacity as temperatures get cooler... Run a manual J - then decide for yourself.

Any retired HVAC tech can install one - pretty trivial for them. Or the required tools don't set you back that much. $8k for an install is nuts.
 
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derekeh

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Manual j shows me needing a 15k unit for heating. The garage door seemed to make a big difference. Cooling is fine with way less though. I guess I'll get the 18k so it heats ok.

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derekeh

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Now to choose between pioneer or Mr cool. Any recommendations of one over the other? Being able to choose the 16 ft lines is a plus for pioneer... I'm more concerned if one is generally more reliable than the other.

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shade

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Phoenix, AZ
Now to choose between pioneer or Mr cool. Any recommendations of one over the other? Being able to choose the 16 ft lines is a plus for pioneer... I'm more concerned if one is generally more reliable than the other.

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I believe the pioneer and mr cool share most of the same components.
 
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derekeh

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Ah ok. I'm leaning to the pioneer then for the shorter line set.

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dcg9381

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The MR. Cool (DIY version) will have a warranty if you self-install.
No other unit will have this.
Outside of that, I went with Daikin because I was told that the coils more substantial than Pioneer.
 

shade

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Phoenix, AZ
The MR. Cool (DIY version) will have a warranty if you self-install.
No other unit will have this.
Outside of that, I went with Daikin because I was told that the coils more substantial than Pioneer.

Any data to back this up? Live to see a sheet that compares the coils. Not that I discount your source
 
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derekeh

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I had a major setback, but im almost ready to get heat and air for my garage now. Im wondering how well the mr cool units do heating. In my area of southern Kentucky, our winters are generally mild. Usually lows are mid 20s at night. We do have the occasional single digit temperatures for a few days straight or even down to 0 degrees. Im wondering if the Mr Cool unit will still put out heat at those low temperatures or if I should have some sort of backup heat. My big concern is it staying warm enough to not freeze my water lines on those extreme cold spells. Thank you.
 

tom-ky

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Mar 11, 2017
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Location
Morgantown, Ky
I had a major setback, but im almost ready to get heat and air for my garage now. Im wondering how well the mr cool units do heating. In my area of southern Kentucky, our winters are generally mild. Usually lows are mid 20s at night. We do have the occasional single digit temperatures for a few days straight or even down to 0 degrees. Im wondering if the Mr Cool unit will still put out heat at those low temperatures or if I should have some sort of backup heat. My big concern is it staying warm enough to not freeze my water lines on those extreme cold spells. Thank you.

Can't speak for the Mr Cool units but my American Standard unit does well in the heat mode.
 

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
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SE MI
The biggest issue when choosing a mini-split is cold temperature performance.

The second biggest issue is efficiency.
 

jjrbus

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Florida
Any data to back this up? Live to see a sheet that compares the coils. Not that I discount your source

No specs to back it up. But on another AC forum there is a member who if he reports something, you can take it to the bank. He is my source and a part of the reason I went with Daikin.
 

metlmunchr

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Sep 10, 2011
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1,278
Personally, I'd go with Daikin if I was buying an average efficiency(17+/-) mini split today. If I wanted a super high efficiency model{30+/-), then I'd go with Mitsubishi or Fujitsu.

Daikin invented and developed the variable refrigerant volume concept back in the early 80's. That's the inverter based system used today by all mini split manufacturers. Daikin, in cooperation with Carrier, developed R-410A refrigerant as the replacement for R-22. IOW, they're much more than an office and warehouse pasting their name on units assembled by some unknown low bidder.

Although Daikin is fairly new to the US market, they've been around for a long time and have recently moved ahead of Carrier as the world's largest manufacturer of hvac equipment. Most everyone else selling average efficiency minis is simply buying Chinese assembled units rebranded with whatever name. Based on the price, Daikin is likely also manufacturing their minis in China or some other low cost location, but there's a big difference in an actual manufacturer producing goods in China versus resellers who do no manufacturing and simply buy from a Chinese assembler.

Re the warranty, Daikin requires that the unit be installed by a hvac tech. They do not specify installation by a licensed hvac contractor. The OP says he has friends who are retired from the hvac trade who are willing to help. Assuming one of these guys worked as a service tech, he would have the EPA license for handling refrigerants and that should satisfy the tech requirement. The manufacturer is concerned with proper testing, evacuation, and checkout at startup as it relates to warranty. Daikin has a 10 yr parts warranty.

Lots of people seem to be all ga-ga over the Mr Cool DIY and their lack of any involvement by a tech to validate the warranty. But, if you read their warranty terms, any warranty parts return must be handled thru a Mr Cool servicing dealer. Looking at the dealer locator on their website, the closest dealer for me would be 125 miles away and I live in a town of 90,000+ with a county population of 260,000. IOW, they don't have an extensive dealer network for handling warranty claims should anything arise.

The concept of quick connect precharged line sets is nothing new. Both Trane and Carrier used the same sort of thing with connectors made by Aeroquip on residential split systems for a while back in the 70's. Both quit using them after a few years due to leak problems over the long term. I can't say the Mr Cool units would have the same problems over time, but Aeroquip has a top shelf reputation worldwide for making fittings that work and it didn't work out real well for them.

Mr Cool is charging a premium price for units purchased from a Chinese assembler, upward of 40% more for a DIY one ton as compared to other similar units from what I can find online, so that "no tech required" warranty definitely carries a fat premium.
 
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