Pole Building Vs Stick Built (With pricing included!)

[Clemson]

Hello,

I, like many others am being torn apart by the pole building vs stick decision. I really need some help. This is keeping me awake at night. The contractor building our house is great and he said he can do my shop as well.

-He can do a pole barn type shop with electrical, insulation, cement pad and OSB put up inside for $22-27 per square foot. Wow that seems so cheap!

-If I go with a stick built, I am looking at $40 per square foot.

What are your thoughts? Just some numbers to compare.
If I did a 30x50 shop. I would be looking at 40,500 max for the pole building. Where as the stick built will be around 60,000. Is 20k worth the stick built?

 

[joe_padavano]

I've erected several pole buildings/barns on my farm. I did the work myself with a helper. Pole buildings are far less expensive to build. The only downside is the nitsy detailing needed for weatherproofing. When I need a slab in the building, I use a PT base band and pour a floating slab in that. With a properly drained base, the floating slab in my pole building garage has no cracking in 15 years.

 

[matt_i]

I see you're in South Carolina, I'm going to guess that you're in a termite prone area. How do you keep the insects out of the wood? I know there are pre-treatments and they don't love treated wood, but eventually will eat it if nothing else is available.

If they get into the posts its game-over.

Whereas with a concrete foundation its much easier to find and mitigate them before they get to the wood structure.

Make sure you have full understanding of the ceiling and the path forward. Many post frame buildings are built with wide 4' and 8' spans between the roof trusses and this ends up being a whole new framing project if a ceiling is desired. Sounds like if you are insulating the walls this will be something that's part of the scope of work.

On one hand, getting the electrical work as close to your ideal scenario is a great step before you close up walls with osb interior panels. The other side is that since you can easily unscrew various panels, then future changes are easier.

Part of the question is how you intend to use the building. If its primarily dry storage then maybe the post frame is better. If its primarily a workshop that's going to be heated and cooled and inhabited quite often then maybe the stick is better. Admittedly one can do a lot of different things with the $20k swing.

 

[readhead]

Depends on the use. Less concrete in a pole building. If the interior is unfinished you are ahead. If you frame and finish the inside you have offset the concrete savings. There is always that idea in the back of your mind about the lifespan of the buried posts. That can be offset by not burying the posts but then you lose the savings. If it is just dirt floor enclosed storage then a pole building is the way to go. Even if it is enclosed storage with a slab you are ahead. Beyond that I would say stick built would be the way to go.

 

[readhead]

Talking about use. Right now I’m quoting a llama barn with hay storage and I’m not even looking at concrete. I will probably go with helical piers. Faster and cheaper and when we back fill you won’t even see them. Since they are hot dipped galvanized there should be no rot which is piece of mind for the owner.

 

[Clemson]

The only plans I have to do past what the contractor would be doing (Insulation + OSB) is I am going to put up a interior wall to make a 15x15 room that is finished for an office.

The rest of the shop is to have a comfortable place to work in and store my tools. Good place to get away. I like wood working, messing around with projects, and doing the usual maintenance on vehicles/lawn equipment.

I want the option of running a mini split in the summer to keep the building usable in the hot humid summers we have. Eventually, I might like to add another small room and do indoor/outdoor kennels for our dogs.

20k is such a big difference...that is a lot of tools, toys, and fun.

 

[Clemson]

To add:

Keep in the mind that the contract is doing what I call finishing. The only thing I will need to do is slap some paint on the OSB. The building will be insulated, have power, water, and be on a cement either option I go.

 

[Clemson]

Should also add:

I'm planning on being at this location a long time. I have no plans to move.

 

[RustyJunk]

I have several 45-year-old pole buildings with no termite damage in the 6x6 posts and we have no shortage of termites in the woods surrounding these buildings. You need to make sure to get properly treated post from a good supplier and not the junk they sell at the discount joints.

 

[Bretny]

Wood has no business being in the ground in about 90* of this country. Im not sure how you accomplish this with a pole barn.

 

[joe_padavano]

Wood has no business being in the ground in about 90* of this country. Im not sure how you accomplish this with a pole barn.

And yet, there are a LOT of pole barns that have been standing for a really long time...

For those who like to worry, there's also this:

https://www.permacolumn.com/

 

[RustyJunk]

They recently replaced a bunch of old telephone poles on my road, the upper sections were burnt out from the sun and cracking but the ends that were in the ground looked almost new.

 

[readhead]

Power poles are not a good comparison since they are usually soaked in creosote. You say that you have several buildings and no termite damage. How do you know? Do you dig them up every few years and inspect them? Every time I would go out to give a quote for a metal building to replace a pole style hay barn the farmer would say " it just fell over with no warning ".

 

[Clemson]

If I do stick built, I think I will downsize compared to a pole. My budget was 50k. So the size I originally planned for (30x50) is not doable. So I would be downsizing to 1200 square ft or 40x30.

Does that change your opinions?

 

[readhead]

Opinions about what?

 

[Dagny]

May I ask your age?

 

[Clemson]

Opinions about what?

Larger pole barn vs smaller stick frame.

 

[Clemson]

May I ask your age?

Late twenties.

 

[jkeyser14]

Talking about use. Right now I’m quoting a llama barn with hay storage and I’m not even looking at concrete. I will probably go with helical piers. Faster and cheaper and when we back fill you won’t even see them. Since they are hot dipped galvanized there should be no rot which is piece of mind for the owner.

Helical piles aren't rated for much side load. That's not good for wind prone areas. The helical piles on my deck are rated 10,000 lbs compression, but only 200 lbs side load.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If I do stick built, I think I will downsize compared to a pole. My budget was 50k. So the size I originally planned for (30x50) is not doable. So I would be downsizing to 1200 square ft or 40x30.

Does that change your opinions?

I'd prefer to have a stick built. I'm going to guess you are going to bankroll the new building in with the building of your home.

I'd get the closed in bigger building that you want and finish it out yourself as you can. You big cost is going to be the concrete foundation and trusses for the stick built.

 

[readhead]

jkeyser14, loads depend on total design. Sometimes they are included in a concrete pour to provide a point load or many other situations where bearing is required.

 

[Clemson]

If I did decide on something like a permacolumn, are they just as easy for my builder to put up as regular posts?

If a pole does rot, can you jack the whole building up and replace it?

Does a rat barrier resolve the issue of critter infiltration entirely?

 

[Dagny]

Your young make it low maintenance.

 

[Clemson]

Your young make it low maintenance.

This is why I am stuck paying to have most of the building completed inside and out. Kids on the horizon and starting an MBA program next year. Free time will be short.

 

[Bretny]

And yet, there are a LOT of pole barns that have been standing for a really long time...

For those who like to worry, there's also this:

https://www.permacolumn.com/

Never seen one like that before. That cant be common or cheap.

 

[NUTTSGT]

This is why I am stuck paying to have most of the building completed inside and out. Kids on the horizon and starting an MBA program next year. Free time will be short.

If time will be short, then you won't have much time to use it in the near future. This for me would be another to get the building up now and finish the inside as you can. You're young, don't rush this building, do it slow and get it right for the future.

 

[ekimneirbo]

Don't downsize, just do a little work yourself. The thing about pole vs stick is going to be how you insulate and finish the inside. I wouldn't use osb....ugly .
Have them frame it up and run wire to your electric panel and install one or two outlets.
After its inspected, go back and insulate the walls yourself.Use 6" insulation.Then by a Harbor Freight drywall lift $200, and install the drywall on the walls. Before drywalling, run some wiring
with lots of places to plug in. Its cheap if you do it yourself, just takes a little time. Its really easy to do. If you get builder to do it, you will have minimal outlets and regret it later. Also run some wire up for lights. Then use white metal siding for your ceiling.
Makes a great ceiling. Then blow insulation on top of the ceiling with a loaner blower from Lowes. This way you will have smooth walls that you can attach things to and it will keep the cold at bay in the winter. The cheaply done builder special always costs you more later on when you try to make up for its deficiencies.

Ask anyone who has a building or shop if they wish they had more outlets in it.....

I wired my 40x60 that has a 14' leanto on the back. My son used to kid me about how many outlets I put on the walls (almost every 2 ft stud). Now that I have work benches and machine tools, I have close places to plug them in. Probably cost me $200 in materials and a couple days of spare time. Son recently bought another home that had an existing 40x50 shop. Really nice building, finished inside with a bathroom. His biggest complaint is not enough outlets.........

Check into using 2x6 trusses on 4' or 6' centers instead of 2x4 trusses on 2 ft centers. Thats how I did mine and its lasted 20 years with no problems and a 17" snow load.
That works well for using a metal ceiling, and the cost of the trusses was much cheaper, at least they were. So check that for a price savings.

 

[RustyJunk]

Power poles are not a good comparison since they are usually soaked in creosote. You say that you have several buildings and no termite damage. How do you know? Do you dig them up every few years and inspect them? Every time I would go out to give a quote for a metal building to replace a pole style hay barn the farmer would say " it just fell over with no warning ".

The old power poles were cca treated not creosote and yes I have removed some of the 40+ year-old post in my buildings while doing some renovations and creating some larger open areas, the sections that were in the ground looked like they were just recently installed.

 

[readhead]

You are one of the lucky ones with very free draining soil.

 

[Jeepster04]

Whats everyones thoughts on laminated posts and the plastic post protectors?

http://www.graberpost.com/images/laminatecolumnbrochure.pdf

 

[yeldogt]

I have never built a pole building -- reason? When I crunch the numbers to get what I want and need -- conditioned space. The savings are not there -- and I'm stuck with what looks too commercial. It's a lot of work taking a Pole and trying to match the performance of a stick

Not to knock pole buildings -- If I wanted a large utility building to get thing out of the weather .. they do that well for the $$

If you are correct in your thoughts going forward -- that you will be in the house for a long time ... you will not regret doing the stick. Especially after your education brings with it higher wages .. find the money and get it built. I would not go smaller ... this will frustrate the hell out of you later if you really do need that extra. Understand that you are getting an extremely good price.

 

[n20junkie]

I built my 30x50 as a stick build, on 4’ formed/poured walls and a 10” footer. 2x
6 walls, attic trusses and a 6” thick floor with vapor barrier. It has full drainage, a sump pit to keep water from building up under the building and forced air heat, 150 amp electrical and a 42 slot panel almost completely used.

It cost around 70k-80k. But it’s dry inside, warm in the winter, I can stay out there very comfortably and work all night. With the insulation, I can run grinders at 2am and I don’t piss off the neighbors in suburbia.

It will also last my lifetime, and my kids lifetime with minimal upkeep.

 

[TractorJeff]

Never seen one like that before. That cant be common or cheap.

Those are an option up here and not much of a price difference than standard poles.

 

[jives]

Lotsa threads here comparing stick to pole. In a nutshell, for a fully finished out building the only difference in cost is concrete footers/frost wall for stick built. For just a shell, a pole building will be cheaper.

Lots of discussion on poles in the ground and Permacolumns. No one going with Permacolumns have regretted it (myself included), and the cost is a minimal add on to the total building cost. Cheap insurance.

Cheap pole buildings are cheap. Cheap stick built are cheap. Engineered and well constructed pole buildings are solid and durable. Same with stick.

 

[Clemson]

I'm leaning towards shelling out the extra money for stick. I need to get more detail from the contractor as far as what options that includes.

I'm worried about the post in the ground. So the peace of mind for a regular foundation is worth something. If I go stick, my wife wants the building closer to the house which I think would be nice as well.

I am going to see if he will work with me on price. If he can not finish it all the way, maybe that is something I can either do myself or sub contract out. But from what I have read, 40/sqft is a really great price.

 

[yeldogt]

I'm leaning towards shelling out the extra money for stick. I need to get more detail from the contractor as far as what options that includes.

I'm worried about the post in the ground. So the peace of mind for a regular foundation is worth something. If I go stick, my wife wants the building closer to the house which I think would be nice as well.

I am going to see if he will work with me on price. If he can not finish it all the way, maybe that is something I can either do myself or sub contract out. But from what I have read, 40/sqft is a really great price.

It is a great price .. that's why I would try and make it work. It's going to cost you more getting someone else back in .... he is giving you a nice added value I'm sure as other trades are there.

Doing the pole and then trying to condition and operating cost .. in a few years you have matched the stick cost.

 

[joe_padavano]

lotsa threads here comparing stick to pole. In a nutshell, for a fully finished out building the only difference in cost is concrete footers/frost wall for stick built. For just a shell, a pole building will be cheaper.

Lots of discussion on poles in the ground and permacolumns. No one going with permacolumns have regretted it (myself included), and the cost is a minimal add on to the total building cost. Cheap insurance.

Cheap pole buildings are cheap. Cheap stick built are cheap. Engineered and well constructed pole buildings are solid and durable. Same with stick.

^^^this!

 

[ekimneirbo]

The problem with negotiating a cheap price is that the contractor may short you in ways that aren't apparent. Best thing is to stipulate what you want in writing and get his estimate. Then get a couple more estimates on YOUR SPECS and see what shakes out.
Whatever you do.........don't give the contractor the money until the job is complete.
I don't care how friendly and honest he seems, don't give money until they are finished. Contractors are notorious for not finishing jobs....and many times not even starting them.

 

[Clemson]

Im lucky to know the contractor personally and he is also family. He would not intentionally lead me in the wrong direction. But I do need to get the details on exactly what 40/sqft gets me.

Its really tough to isolate your needs from your wants when its your first shop. Also, we have a 35x24 attached garage as well.

Having the building cooled does seem a bit excessive. But I guess by the time you do insulation and sheathing the interior walls, you are not talking much money to add clinate control.

Friends seem to think 50x30 is a very large building. I need to spend more time in the gallery. breaking ground on the house in January. So not much planning time left.

 

[yeldogt]

Im lucky to know the contractor personally and he is also family. He would not intentionally lead me in the wrong direction. But I do need to get the details on exactly what 40/sqft gets me.

Its really tough to isolate your needs from your wants when its your first shop. Also, we have a 35x24 attached garage as well.

Having the building cooled does seem a bit excessive. But I guess by the time you do insulation and sheathing the interior walls, you are not talking much money to add clinate control.

Friends seem to think 50x30 is a very large building. I need to spend more time in the gallery. breaking ground on the house in January. So not much planning time left.

Clemson -- you can kill yourself with details. The key is to get the building up and within budget. It's often not much more to build a bit bigger -- you build to maximize material. IE -- you don't build 18' when nothing is 18'.