bought a vise, discovered damage later....will it be OK?

[Shurgosa]

I bought a Rae 106 Vise and in my excitement forgot to check it out to any respectable degree..... turns out the whole dynamic jaw was broken off at some point and looks like it was brazed back on....how much overall strength is typically lost when this is done?

I'll take some photos of the repair later. it looks pretty dang good just from looking at it, but would love to hear some more expert opinions about the strength of a brazed vise jaw.

Thanks

 

[ClappedOutBport]

You're going to get a of people bitching at you telling you how screwed you are bla bla bla, but the fact of the matter is that these same people polish vises and put them on shelves, so their opinion regarding strength doesn't even matter.

I tend to find that most braze repairs I see have been in service longer after brazing than before. The person who broke it probably had a cheater pipe on it and/or applied a very large dynamic load, such as a lot of torque to a small piece. The person who broke then probably fixed it (maybe not) and likely was almost as hard on it afterwards as they were before it broke. How often do you do extreme work on your vise? Will this vise even be mounted rigidly enough to load it that hard? You will probably need it to be bolted to the floor or on a very heavy table to even stress it like that.

From an engineering perspective, brazing rod has as good of a yield strength as most cast iron, and adheres really well. If the repair was done well enough you didn't notice it, and has full penetration, it's probably quite stout.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Japanese philosophy of Kintsugi. If someone cared about it enough to go to all that work to fix it, I think that should be celebrated and respected instead of shunned. I'd probably leave the brass unpainted and polish it up so it stands out. But that's just me. I have an old watercooled vacuum pump/air compressor I'd like to restore someday. The water jacket froze and cracked and masterfully brazed. I fully intend to polish that one out to honor the repairman who saved the pump.

That's my $0.02.

 

[ez-duzit]

...If someone cared about it enough to go to all that work to fix it, I think that should be celebrated and respected instead of shunned...

And I prefer not to bottom feed.

 

[orangeblood]

...the Japanese philosophy of Kintsugi. If someone cared about it enough to go to all that work to fix it, I think that should be celebrated and respected instead of shunned...

this would make an interesting thread topic. i bet the photos would be as interesting as the stories about the breakage and repair process

 

[larry_g]

It will be fine. Many a cast piece working fine after a braze repair.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ChrisLS8]

And I prefer not to bottom feed.

So repairing a good tool to working condition is bottom feeding? Good luck with your disposable tool goals of 2020

 

[Shurgosa]

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Japanese philosophy of Kintsugi.

Oh god yes, im a HUGE fan of that ****. this particular break....its big. the brazed section is like a giant 2 inch square....not your typical "golden vein that is so SUPER interesting and appealing....

I'll snap some photos of the repair tonight so everyone can have a look.


As far as how hard I work vises? absolutely not even remotely hard at all....light duty work by any stretch of the imagination.

thanks for the insight...!

 

[ez-duzit]

So repairing a good tool to working condition is bottom feeding?...

Buying badly broken tools is bottom feeding.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Buying badly broken tools is bottom feeding.

Is buying well broken tools OK?

BTW: This thread is about a repaired tool (possibly well repaired).

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

RAE are semi-steel cast iron. A very worthy find.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Oh god yes, im a HUGE fan of that ****. this particular break....its big. the brazed section is like a giant 2 inch square....not your typical "golden vein that is so SUPER interesting and appealing....

I'll snap some photos of the repair tonight so everyone can have a look.


As far as how hard I work vises? absolutely not even remotely hard at all....light duty work by any stretch of the imagination.

thanks for the insight...!

Should be fine then. Grind it flat if not already, hammer some coarse sandpaper in to texture it (optional of course) and paint it and no one will ever know it was there.

Buying badly broken tools is bottom feeding.

So far your track record of saying things I disagree with has been flawless. I love getting distressed things and putting them back right. It's a nice challenge. You seem like the type of guy who has to have everything new... What ever floats your boat.

At any rate, this vise is not badly broken. It sounds like it's in perfect working order. So

 

[ez-duzit]

...So far your track record of saying things I disagree with has been flawless...

I am greatly relieved to hear that.

 

[Reversepolarity]

Buying badly broken tools is bottom feeding.

Getting something back to work is not bottom feeding.
Also sounds like you have not seen a brazing job done right.

Many brazed vises will out live you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ez-duzit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ez-duzit View Post
Buying badly broken tools is bottom feeding.

Getting something back to work is not bottom feeding...
Many brazed vises will out live you...

Many brazed vises have better reading comprehension than you.

 

[Rabid Badger]

And I prefer not to bottom feed.

Aw, do you believe anyone cares what you think? That's adorable.

 

[Shurgosa]

ok here are some photos thanks!!!

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Looks very well done. Ready for work.

 

[PugetDude]

And I prefer not to bottom feed.

I broke one of the cast iron tool rests on my 8" bench grinder during a recent move. Clean break, no missing pieces.

I'm thinking about brazing it back together but I don't want to be a "bottom feeder". What is your opinion on this? It's really important to me.

 

[rsanter]

How,strong it,is is,fully based on how good,of a job they did.
You really don’t know but odds are it will be weaker than it was original.

Best way to test it would be to use it, if you break,it then you can go buy another one.
If you don’t then it was done well enough

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I broke one of the cast iron tool rests on my 8" bench grinder during a recent move. Clean break, no missing pieces.

I'm thinking about brazing it back together but I don't want to be a "bottom feeder". What is your opinion on this? It's really important to me.

Probably best just to scrap it. Buy a brand new one. The cheapest model from China. Definitely better than a once-broken-but-since-repaired tool.

How,strong it,is is,fully based on how good,of a job they did.
You really don’t know but odds are it will be weaker than it was original.

Best way to test it would be to use it, if you break,it then you can go buy another one.
If you don’t then it was done well enough

This is one of those cases where I actually wouldn't test it. Assuming it is actually weak, he might could use it for a long time before it he put enough force on it to break it, whereas testing could take it out on day one. I don't think either are likely, but I don't see a need to test it right off the bat.

 

[PFSard]

I hate it when I buy something that is defective, when I should have noticed it. As in wrenches or sockets that are cracked, etc.

After seeing the pics, I'd be interested in how the repair holds up. Good luck with it.

 

[Shurgosa]

This is one of those cases where I actually wouldn't test it. Assuming it is actually weak, he might could use it for a long time before it he put enough force on it to break it, whereas testing could take it out on day one. I don't think either are likely, but I don't see a need to test it right off the bat.

Yea ive given it a heap of thought and I definitely was thinking the same thing....ill just "test" it as I use it.

I was thinking about getting my best friend's advice on it, but he'd be hanging off the goddamn thing like an ape in the blink of an eye LOL!!!!

 

[Lassen Forge]

Use it. If it breaks again somewhere down the line then you can replace or re-repair it.

 

[WittHay]

I think the RAE vise is more of a collectors item and not something that you would use as a working vise. The 6" Record type vises are not expensive and can be bought anywhere in Canada for true shop use.

If the RAE vise the OP has is like the vise in the picture, they are rare. I have been to a lot of shops over the years and I can count on one hand the number of American type vises I have seen

Not a expert any any means but the repairs on ductile iron or nodular iron are weaker than the original part. Repairs made on regular cast iron by brazing or ni-rod welding are strong and last years, even on highly stressed parts

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

It's a RAE, Likely the best quality mechanic's vise made in North America. Because it's high quality cast, it will take brazing . Unlike poorer quality cast iron, where it's problematic

 

[davethorik]

I think the RAE vise is more of a collectors item and not something that you would use as a working vise. The 6" Record type vises are not expensive and can be bought anywhere in Canada for true shop use.

If the RAE vise the OP has is like the vise in the picture, they are rare. I have been to a lot of shops over the years and I can count on one hand the number of American type vises I have seen

Most vises that have some sort of intrinsic collectability usually lose all or most value when there is a large braze repair, even if it's done well.

It's a RAE, Likely the best quality mechanic's vise made in North America. Because it's high quality cast, it will take brazing . Unlike poorer quality cast iron, where it's problematic

RAE vises are/were the best made in North America? Got any info to back that claim up, or is it more delusional rambling?

 

[TjoFrasse]

Long video, but here he tests a repaired broken vice (although it seems welded and not brazed)

Can be plenty strong if well done, and will probably work better than a cheaper new vice.

 

[Packard V8]

It's a RAE, Likely the best quality mechanic's vise."

RAE vises are/were the best made in North America? Got any info to back that claim up, or is it more delusional rambling?

"Likely" is a reasonable qualifier. How does on find laboratory testing of antique vises? I've never seen any. We're left with opinion and catalog pricing. While not exact, those which cost the most in their time frame are likely to be the best. End users never pay more than they have to (unless the truck comes to the door.)

jack vines

 

[Shurgosa]

Long video, but here he tests a repaired broken vice (although it seems welded and not brazed)

Can be plenty strong if well done, and will probably work better than a cheaper new vice.

Jesus that was a GREAT video!!! I sure as **** wont be going anywhere near that kind of torture....LOL!!!!

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I think the RAE vise is more of a collectors item and not something that you would use as a working vise.

I don't tend to believe in any tool is a collector's item unless it is so rare it needs to be preserved for historical means. I see shelves and shelves of Vises on some forums, just collecting dust. Makes me a bit sad to be honesty. I'd actually rather see them repaired and in use than mint and on a shelf.

Long video, but here he tests a repaired broken vice (although it seems welded and not brazed)

Can be plenty strong if well done, and will probably work better than a cheaper new vice.

That was a great video and did a great job demonstrating that even though it's repaired, it may not still be the weak point.

 

[WittHay]

Most vises that have some sort of intrinsic collectability usually lose all or most value when there is a large braze repair, even if it's done right.

I don't tend to believe in any tool is a collector's item unless it is so rare it needs to be preserved for historical means. I see shelves and shelves of Vises on some forums, just collecting dust. Makes me a bit sad to be honesty. I'd actually rather see them repaired and in use than mint and on a shelf..

I didnt mean a collectors item for money reasons. Just something cleaned up and used in a normal homeowners type garage. Not used with sledge hammers and torches in a commercial diesel shop

You would have to do a lot of searching to find any vise that resembles the RAE in the picture around here. I call them American style vises. Never mind one that is made in Canada.

I have a old Canadian made vise with a missing jaw and some quick slide assembly that doesn't work properly. Instead of throwing it in the scrap pile, I thought maybe somebody would want to restore it and still have it sitting on a shelf

 

[Shurgosa]

I didnt mean a collectors item for money reasons. Just something cleaned up and used in a normal homeowners type garage. Not used with sledge hammers and torches in a commercial diesel shop

You would have to do a lot of searching to find any vise that resembles the RAE in the picture around here. I call them American style vises. Never mind one that is made in Canada.

This is my experience exactly. This style of vise is so laughably uncommon in my local area, I can only recall seeing just a hand full of them in the past several years, and I check constantly throughout the day...

Record vises by contras, and still locally, im sure ive seen hundreds for sale by now...

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

The RAE vises I've seen were Record clones, but in caststeel . That's where I get the comment. A long step up from cast iron .Looking at those that WittHay posted, I wouldn't have said the best, they just look like American style. . From the start RAE used a Meechanite type cast iron.

 

[Shurgosa]

Yes that's true also. A slightly more common style of Rae Vises around me, I do see from time to time, are the ones that look like Records, but with the 2 flairs on the static jaw sides, like this one attached.

I was always under the impression that Reed or Athols were the most sturdy beefy branded vises, while Wiltons had the finest fit and finish, and that those names were widely regarded as "the leaders among equals" along side colombian, prentiss,chas parker, record, hollands etc.etc.etc.etc.etc...


But I'm curious what your take is on it as far as the best vise is. that very recent vise destruction testing video was a real eye opener...!!!

 

[rsanter]

Probably best just to scrap it. Buy a brand new one. The cheapest model from China. Definitely better than a once-broken-but-since-repaired tool.



This is one of those cases where I actually wouldn't test it. Assuming it is actually weak, he might could use it for a long time before it he put enough force on it to break it, whereas testing could take it out on day one. I don't think either are likely, but I don't see a need to test it right off the bat.

I said test it by using it, meaning that he should use it as me would and if it works then it is good to go.
I did not suggest test to failure on the first time use

 

[2ndGearRubber]

When our el-cheapo chinese vises break at work, I weld them back together with a 120 MIG welder. No cleaning, no prep, grind the area back a little and lay the hottest bead I can. It usually doubles, sometimes triples, their life span doing so. They usually end up with split bases or snapped off dynamic jaws. After I've re-tapped the jaw bolts twice, then welded them on, then rewelded them on, then welded a crack in a jaw before it fully fell off; THEN it eventually breaks.


If you're not flat out abusing it, it should be fine IMO. Not hammering on the handle, not using it as a press, etc. A HF vise is generally usable if not abused. I'd bolt it up and use it.

 

[ganymede]

Is the RAE vise in the catalog pic a Reed ?

 

[WittHay]

Is the RAE vise in the catalog pic a Reed ?

No its a RAE vise made by the OTACO company in Orillia, Ontario, The picture was from 1953

 

[Man of Many Vices]

I tend to agree with EZ-Duzit in the debate on Page 1. The reliability of a vise is paramount. Doubts must be resolved by rejecting the purchase.

That's why I won't buy a Chinese vise, even though some are very good. And I am horrified that formerly great vise manufacturers, like Wilton, have gone Chinese. The degradation in quality is obvious.

When second-guessing your purchase of this vise, ask yourself whether you would have bought the vise knowing that the repair had been made. If so, what price would you have paid? Keep in mind that it was sold for a reason, without disclosing the damage and repair.

Others chimed in above about the theoretical adequacy of vise repairs. Yes, maybe, if you made the repair yourself, or it was repaired by someone you trust. In such cases, the nature of the damage and the quality of the repair are known.

There are plenty of good quality underused vises are out there waiting for new owners. Keep looking for one that leaves no doubt about its ability to do the job you need it to do. And once you find it, QUIT LOOKING, or you will end up like me, with many dozens of vices sitting around unused, each purchased because it was a little bigger, nicer, or different from the ones I already had.

Confession: I'm still using the first big vise I got. Made in Taiwan. Given to me by my 92-year-old buddy Robert Gillespie, who has since passed on. I can't bear to part with it. And it does as good of a job as I need it to do.

 

[Shurgosa]

Is the RAE vise in the catalog pic a Reed ?

That's the only reason i bought it because it was utterly identical!! and Reeds virtually never show up in my area....like a paltry 2 or 3 in several years of checking...

But I cannot find any paper trail suggesting that they are the same thing.......I guess the fact that they LOOK the same does not mean that the metal is identical....

I'm deadly interested in any papers or info anyone has on the subject...