Outdoor sub-panel as AC disconnect

[dcg9381]

Checking my sanity.
I've got a home - typical builder electrical plan for 2 x 2 ton AC units shows 3 connections:
* Disconnect, AC#1
* Disconnect, AC#2
* GFCI 120V outlet

Instead, I'd like to place a Siemens TL137US Talon sub-panel out there within "easily accessible" distance from the AC units - basically where the disconnects go. This panel already has the 120V GFCI outlet.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

 

[alfredeneuman]

The only possible problem I see lies with the nameplates on the condensers.
If it says Max Fuse or HACR breaker and then gives the size you're golden.
If it says only Max Fuse then you'd need to use fuses

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Post a pic of the nameplates

 

[Jim greengo]

I've never had an inspector complain about a breaker or pullout disconect versus a fused disconect,must be a local inspector thing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I've never had an inspector complain about a breaker or pullout disconect versus a fused disconect,must be a local inspector thing.

Have you ever had an A/C unit that listed only fuses on the nameplate?

 

[Jim greengo]

I usually just look at the number,and size things based off of that.
I work on and install lots of condensinsing units,most of them just say something like this on them.
I dont remember ever having an electrical or mechanical inspector ever bend down that far to look to tell you the truth.

 

[alfredeneuman]

must be a local inspector thing.

Nope, it's an NEC "thing". 110.3(B)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I usually just look at the number,and size things based off of that.
I work on and install lots of condensinsing units,most of them just say something like this on them.
I dont remember ever having an electrical or mechanical inspector ever bend down that far to look to tell you the truth.

So you dont follow the manufacturers directions listed on the nameplate for anything other than wire sizes?

Who cares what the inspector may look at.

I was on a job where the inspector passed the drywallers work. The drywallers used nails and screws that were too long and nailed several NM-b cables.

But hey. It passed inspection so everything must be good and dandy right? Cause the inspector didnt check the drywaller's fasteners. which by the way were on the ground and easily noticed by myself and others as being too long.

but hey it passed inspection right? so all is good....

the nameplate you posted lists fuses OR breaker. If it had said fuses only, then that is what is required

 

[rlitman]

...I was on a job where the inspector passed the drywallers work. The drywallers used nails and screws that were too long and nailed several NM-b cables...

And there were no nail plates?

 

[Higgins]

Nail Plates? What are Nail Plates.???

When we moved down to TN we discovered builders skip a few things down here when building new homes. Like Nail Plates for electrical and plumbing, Service electrical socket by out side AC unit, AC Disconnect by well tank!

And the Beat Goes on !!!

 

[Jim greengo]

And there were no nail plates?

 

[Jim greengo]

So you dont follow the manufacturers directions listed on the nameplate for anything other than wire sizes?

Who cares what the inspector may look at.

I was on a job where the inspector passed the drywallers work. The drywallers used nails and screws that were too long and nailed several NM-b cables.

But hey. It passed inspection so everything must be good and dandy right? Cause the inspector didnt check the drywaller's fasteners. which by the way were on the ground and easily noticed by myself and others as being too long.

but hey it passed inspection right? so all is good....

the nameplate you posted lists fuses OR breaker. If it had said fuses only, then that is what is required

Well as soon as I come across a condensing unit that says fuses only the name plate I'll worry about it.
I said I've never seen an inspector bend down to read a name plate on a condensing unit.
I never said i dont follow what the name plate days,i said the example i posted was what i commonly come across.
Big differance there.
You notice it says fuse or breaker right?

 

[SGKent]

Is there a distance maximum as to where the disconnects can be from the AC unit? The AC company put mine about 3' or 4' from outdoor AC unit, and used fuses. I asked about a breaker but they said the manufacturer specified fuses.

 

[Jim greengo]

Heres another one that's says max fuses or breaker,I guess my mission for the rest of the week is to check all the condensing units I come across to see how many if any say fuses only on name plate.

 

[Jim greengo]

Nope, it's an NEC "thing". 110.3(B)

No,I was referring to inspectors requiring a fused disconect if the equipment doesnt require a fused disconect on the equipt name plate.
110.3b does not require a fused disconect be installed unless the manufacturer calls for it.

 

[Jim greengo]

Is there a distance maximum as to where the disconnects can be from the AC unit? The AC company put mine about 3' or 4' from outdoor AC unit, and used fuses. I asked about a breaker but they said the manufacturer specified fuses.

Do you have a picture of the name plate,what brand is the condensing unit?

 

[dcg9381]

Is there a distance maximum as to where the disconnects can be from the AC unit?

I think per NEC it's "readily accessible" and "within line of sight" and no more than 6'7" high.

 

[alfredeneuman]

No,I was referring to inspectors requiring a fused disconect if the equipment doesnt require a fused disconect on the equipt name plate.
110.3b does not require a fused disconect be installed unless the manufacturer calls for it.

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

You're saying the nameplate is not a label?

 

[brewchief]

No issue using a subpanel like that, builder plan is probably cheaper as it's likely just two home runs of 12-2 for the A/C units and the outdoor plug might come off another circuit.

Only issue I would see would be if the max breaker size on the A/C was an odd size, a 2 ton unit is likely a 20 or 25, possibly a 30, a larger unit could be a 45 which is probably available but not near as common.



The only A/Cs that I have ever heard of listing only fuse are mini-splits, some real old stuff might as well but this sounds like it's for a new build.




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Jim greengo]

Heres a couple that I didnt install but I get the headache of trying to keep running from time to time.
Nothing requiring fuses only on plate.

 

[Jim greengo]

Heres a couple more hack jobs I babysit from time to time,same instructions fuses or breaker.

 

[Jim greengo]

And heres 2 of my Installs.same instructions for fuses or breaker.
These are all 1ph residential units I'm posting pictures of,several differant brands with same specs for electrical install.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Jim, just posting the nameplates on some random A/C units that you've come across is nothing.

Do you think that the nameplates are labels or not?

The ones you posted certainly are and believe it or not some nameplates call for a max fuse

 

[wyliesdiesels]

IIRC, theres a couple threads on this group where the nameplate calls for only fuses

 

[Jim greengo]

Jim, just posting the nameplates on some random A/C units that you've come across is nothing.

Do you think that the nameplates are labels or not?

The ones you posted certainly are and believe it or not some nameplates call for a max fuse

Just posting examples of what I normally come across on a daily basis,several differant brands .
This is why I I've never had an inspector complain about pull out non fused disconects around my part of the world.
I was called out for not following the NEC on installs by more than one person for this
So that is my response.

 

[Jim greengo]

IIRC, theres a couple threads on this group where the nameplate calls for only fuses

Yes,but not all equipment requires a fused disconect,which was exactly my point.

 

[Jim greengo]

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

You're saying the nameplate is not a label?

Yes it is,and if it says max fuse or breaker size that means you can also use a breaker for it right?
An inspector cant make you install a fused disconect according to the NEC rules than right?
That's my point.