Fireball Tool Tests Bench Vises to Failure

[65k10]

Fireball forged vise? What are you referring to?

His handmade vise is make of mild steel.

I assume he is talking about this vise Fireball tools sells on their website.
https://fireballtool.com/forged-bench-vise/

 

[kythri]

Interesting. That vise looks familiar - rebrand of something else?

 

[mike93lx]

I assume he is talking about this vise Fireball tools sells on their website.
https://fireballtool.com/forged-bench-vise/

Interesting that he didn't include his own vise in the test. Probably doesn't say much for how he regards it

 

[CallumRD1]

Interesting that he didn't include his own vise in the test. Probably doesn't say much for how he regards it

He tested the 4 inch model he sells to destruction in this video from April:

 

[Ign]

Also I hope most viewers are intelligent enough to see this video is 85% entertainment, 15% educational

It's educational in that it can tell us something about modes of failure in vises when pushed past their intended uses.

And I'm not bashing the video maker, props to him for taking the time.

But as scientific controls go, there were few. Just a couple observations (of many):

-when he was hitting the flat bar in the HF vise, his entire mounting plate was lifting away from the table (I'm not speaking of the base of the vise itself). Things like this mean force is dissipated rather than transmitted as intended.
-it's extremely unlikely he was hitting as hard with the sledgehammer on vise #1 as on the last vise, IOW there's the human fatigue factor
-as mentioned the vises are all over the map in size and weight. When all else fails the same rule applies to vises as machine tools: opt for the heaviest. One reason the Irwin swivel and Prentiss did great was that they're just a lot of mass absorbing the same impact (from the sledgehammer)

Again:
1. FUN to watch
2. COOL to see how they fail
3. USELESS in bragging my **** is bigger than yours as they were all different

 

[Ign]

And while I appear to be in the minority in appreciating and using swivel bases on my Wiltons, something not touched on at all is the design and quality of a swivel base.

I remember the one thing that drove me batchit crazy when I was young and poor and could only afford cheap bench vises was that no matter how much you tightened the swivel screws the damn thing would still spin if you had to apply rotational force to your work.

Wilton is one of the few using (heavy) serrations so once you've snugged those screws there's essentially a mechanical stop preventing it from rotating when you get after it.

Again, "performance" is more than slapping a cheater on the spindle lever 'til it blows apart

 

[jayemm]

I guess we all have our own viewpoint on this vise test.I saw it as how each vise held up to extreme treatment as an entity to itself if one were interested in purchasing one.Not as a "scientific test".How the hell can you do that when the vises vary so much in size ,weight and construction?It gives a general idea how it will hold up.For most of these vises (meaning the smaller as opposed to the older or more massive ones),how many of us are going to give it that type of treatment.Best vise test I've seen yet and he deserves credit for it.

 

[may0naise]

Interesting. That vise looks familiar - rebrand of something else?

Looks like this capri vise https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015NI27ZY/?tag=atomicindus08-20 only with a different bolt pattern on the base.

these are VERY similar to the old yost FSV series vises, which are similar to the ridgid forged vises https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VY07LQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The main difference between the yost/ridgid and the capri/fireball seems to be the little tail behind the anvil. I would not be surprised if they are all made in the same place in Taiwan.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I have a Tradesman I actually really like, although I do find it a bit annoying I sometimes have to really get after the handle to get it hold anything with assertiveness. OTOH I do have copper jaw caps

Otherwise I struggle with your logic - if you're daily driving a vise the Wilton is overall a pleasure to use at an entry level price for a "professional" vise. A HF vise is like driving a base model Sentra.

Yes, I've used both and I won't be putting a HF in place of my Tradesman

IOW, I guess it depends on how you define "performance."

I'm not a Wilton fan boi - I'm fine with bashing them but a HF vise is sloppy, tinny (as in tin/sheetmetal) and even the reviewer nails it - it feels "hollow". The Tradesman fills that gap between homeowner grade and $1k C1 or machinist. It feels smooth and solid. There's one on the rear bumper of every gas patch truck here, probably because they're relatively strong, *relatively* affordable and the enclosed spindle won't seize up outdoors as readily

My logic is that I don’t think it is worth it to spend $400 on a vise that only performs slightly better than a crappy $50 harbor freight vise. I’m not saying to buy a HF vise. There were other nice name brand vises in that test that actually outperformed the Wilton tradesman for a fraction of its price.

 

[Steve_P]

The above is my point. For the $ the DeWalt is the winner . Unless you can get an ADI on a price drop on Amazon. The yost ADI 6 I have has a geared base which is a necessity IMO. My Yost FSV 5 has a smooth base which is a bummer. I know I can drill a hole and pin it....

 

[dr_clyde]

My logic is that I don’t think it is worth it to spend $400 on a vise that only performs slightly better than a crappy $50 harbor freight vise. I’m not saying to buy a HF vise. There were other nice name brand vises in that test that actually outperformed the Wilton tradesman for a fraction of its price.

See, that’s where personal preference come into play.

I personally MUCH prefer the Wilton design to most others. I have bought brand new Wilton Tradesman and Machinist vises because it is worth the premium to me.

The action, size, fit and finish, better swivel, and many other features stand out to me as superior and worth the extra money.

There’s enough people like me that they still make and sell them and can command that premium.

 

[mc4life27]

The Fireball vise in those videos isn't forged. It's welded plate and tube, made from plans you can buy here: https://fireballtool.com/diy-vise-plans/



I'm in the market for a couple of these, if there's anyone here who wants to quote me what they'd charge to build and ship them.

I'm talking about this vise. I believe it's a rebranded. https://fireballtool.com/forged-bench-vise/


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Fcvapor05]

My logic is that I don’t think it is worth it to spend $400 on a vise that only performs slightly better than a crappy $50 harbor freight vise. I’m not saying to buy a HF vise. There were other nice name brand vises in that test that actually outperformed the Wilton tradesman for a fraction of its price.

If you use them side by side the difference is painfully obvious.

The question you don't seem to be asking is- how often do people use vises in ways that actually cause them to fail?

The answer is almost never. Junkyards aren't packed full of broken bench vises.

Pretty much anyone who buys a vise bases their decision on a couple of things- usability, feel, configuration. Durability when being assaulted with a sledgehammer is almost never something people think about (or NONE of us would have vises with swivel bases....) because most people don't beat on their vises that way.

 

[Shadowdog500]

If you use them side by side the difference is painfully obvious.

The question you don't seem to be asking is- how often do people use vises in ways that actually cause them to fail?

The answer is almost never. Junkyards aren't packed full of broken bench vises.

Pretty much anyone who buys a vise bases their decision on a couple of things- usability, feel, configuration. Durability when being assaulted with a sledgehammer is almost never something people think about (or NONE of us would have vises with swivel bases....) because most people don't beat on their vises that way.

People can buy whatever they want. Heck, I’m sure there is a gold plated vise sitting on someone’s bench somewhere.

I’m not talking about what other people buy, I’m talking about me. I’m not spending big money on a product that looks really nice but only performs on par with the cheapest one they tested. The $400 tradesman may be designed to have the look and feel of its $3000 big brother but it doesn’t perform much better than a $50 vise. This includes its grip strength which is the main purpose of a vise (work holding!). There are other vises for less than half the price that outperform it. In my mind, spending $400 on that vise would be like buying a Juicero.

Had a similar experience with a new Baldor bench grinder a few years ago. I have two perfectly good bench grinders. My one Delta bench grinder is smooth as silk and works great. I spent about $400 on a Baldor Grinder that I didn’t need just because I had to have a Baldor grinder. When the FedEx truck showed up you would think it was Christmas at my house. Once I opened it up an saw the crappy warped castings, the oscillating grinding wheel and had it dance across the table when it was turned on, I went into full disbelief for a few days. How could this be, it’s a Baldor. That think went right back and I am now perfectly happy with my $100 Delta.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

And while I appear to be in the minority in appreciating and using swivel bases on my Wiltons, something not touched on at all is the design and quality of a swivel base.

I remember the one thing that drove me batchit crazy when I was young and poor and could only afford cheap bench vises was that no matter how much you tightened the swivel screws the damn thing would still spin if you had to apply rotational force to your work.

Wilton is one of the few using (heavy) serrations so once you've snugged those screws there's essentially a mechanical stop preventing it from rotating when you get after it.

Again, "performance" is more than slapping a cheater on the spindle lever 'til it blows apart

Yes yes yes. One of the most overlooked parts of that test. Those little strap-bar swivel bases with no teeth will never take any torque.

Speaking of Wiltons, I think they all get high praise when some of them (even the older, USA made ones) shouldn't get as much. For example, this is a proper Vise. Big slide, short jaw towers made of appropriate strength and stiffness relative to the slide.

This (C3?) is stupid from an engineering perspective. Giagantic jaw towers that are a waste of material, very tall so there is lots of lever-arm, and then a comically small slide to top it all off. No thank you.

One of the main problems with a small slide is that it deflects under heavy loading conditions, leading to the jaws going out of square, losing contact area and thus requiring even more pressure to hold the part. Notice that the Prentiss in the test did not deflect at all. I'm a fan of square slides,

 

[WittHay]

I have never used a swivel vise until 3 years ago. When I found a Columbian 5" rotator. A couple of years ago I bought a Wilton 6 1/2" Tradesman was going to use it on a service truck but changed my mind. The Wiiton is way nicer to use for a swivel. The swivel actually stays locked. The slide movement is more precise. Basically I am repeating what others Tradesman vise owners have said, its a quality vise but not a full on beating vise

The strongest vise i have used is a 8" forged vise made in Europe somewhere. Looks like the vise in the first picture but more heavy duty with replaceable jaws. Current sledgehammer vise is a 6" Bessey Record type vise.

In farm equipment repair manuals, they state that the recommended way to change universal joints is with a vise. They almost always show a non swivel Wilton machinist vise about 4" to 5" jaw size

I would to see a comparison or test between a 8" European forged vise., a 6" Record type vise, and a Wilton 450 machinist vise. Fixed vises, different jaw sizes but they all weigh about 70 lbs.

 

[neophyte]

I have never used a swivel vise until 3 years ago. When I found a Columbian 5" rotator. A couple of years ago I bought a Wilton 6 1/2" Tradesman was going to use it on a service truck but changed my mind. The Wiiton is way nicer to use for a swivel. The swivel actually stays locked. The slide movement is more precise. Basically I am repeating what others Tradesman vise owners have said, its a quality vise but not a full on beating vise

The strongest vise i have used is a 8" forged vise made in Europe somewhere. Looks like the vise in the first picture but more heavy duty with replaceable jaws. Current sledgehammer vise is a 6" Bessey Record type vise.

In farm equipment repair manuals, they state that the recommended way to change universal joints is with a vise. They almost always show a non swivel Wilton machinist vise about 4" to 5" jaw size

I would to see a comparison or test between a 8" European forged vise., a 6" Record type vise, and a Wilton 450 machinist vise. Fixed vises, different jaw sizes but they all weigh about 70 lbs.

The forged “European” vise is made by Kanca in Turkey, but some European tool companies sell it under their brand names as well, including some German tool companies.
MOB Peddinghaus, the French Peddinghaus brand, which is different from the Peddinghaus brand owned by Ridgid, sells a similar vise under the Magnat brand. I’m not sure where the Magnat vises are munufactured since they appear slightly different from the Kanca vises, although MOB was sourcing some tools from Kanca from what I recall.
Irimo/Bahco also sells a similar forged steel vise, which I presume is made in Spain since I believe that was what the Irimo brand was known for. The Irimo vise has a tongue that sticks out under the slinding jaw.
http://kancaforging.com/en/products/vises/leg-vise
http://ecatalog-mob.maqprint.fr/produit.php?pro_id=185&lang=en
https://www.bahco.com/en/p/bench-vice-square-guide/cd-4b-3a-e6-59-a0-14-6d-94-a2-5e-25-9c-92-43-70/

 

[Man of Many Vices]

Just a quick note on buying quality vintage American made vises. Don't rely on Craigslist. The postings often feature just a single item (the vise) described in some detail, which suggests that the seller has checked eBay for price "appraisals."

Swap meets and flea markets are where the contents of a garage, backyard or small shop are being hastily sold by someone forced to move. Lately, the contents of abandoned storage lockers are being sold by someone who has no interest in the junk he has, other than to make a quick buck. Vises that I have paid $125 to $150 when I was hungry for a vise sell for $40 to $75.

But time is money. If you need a vise now, you gotta pay the price or go cheap.

Wandering around swap meets is a form of exercise for me. Others play golf or watch "Meet the Press." I don't ever go expecting to find any particular item. It is the eight years of stumbling around swap meets that gradually yielded my accumulation of tools, shop equipment, knives, anvils, vises, and other assorted "cool guy" stuff.

Sadly, nobody thinks of me as a cool guy. It won't be long before the piranhas start swimming my way.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Just a quick note on buying quality vintage American made vises. Don't rely on Craigslist. The postings often feature just a single item (the vise) described in some detail, which suggests that the seller has checked eBay for price "appraisals."

Swap meets and flea markets are where the contents of a garage, backyard or small shop are being hastily sold by someone forced to move. Lately, the contents of abandoned storage lockers are being sold by someone who has no interest in the junk he has, other than to make a quick buck. Vises that I have paid $125 to $150 when I was hungry for a vise sell for $40 to $75.

But time is money. If you need a vise now, you gotta pay the price or go cheap.

Wandering around swap meets is a form of exercise for me. Others play golf or watch "Meet the Press." I don't ever go expecting to find any particular item. It is the eight years of stumbling around swap meets that gradually yielded my accumulation of tools, shop equipment, knives, anvils, vises, and other assorted "cool guy" stuff.

Sadly, nobody thinks of me as a cool guy. It won't be long before the piranhas start swimming my way.

Lately on Craigslist in my area people have been painting old vises and trying to sell them for big bucks. Wonder if Mr. Pete and Abom started this trend or are just taking part of this trend.

 

[davethorik]

Just a quick note on buying quality vintage American made vises. Don't rely on Craigslist. The postings often feature just a single item (the vise) described in some detail, which suggests that the seller has checked eBay for price "appraisals."

Swap meets and flea markets are where the contents of a garage, backyard or small shop are being hastily sold by someone forced to move. Lately, the contents of abandoned storage lockers are being sold by someone who has no interest in the junk he has, other than to make a quick buck. Vises that I have paid $125 to $150 when I was hungry for a vise sell for $40 to $75.

But time is money. If you need a vise now, you gotta pay the price or go cheap.

Wandering around swap meets is a form of exercise for me. Others play golf or watch "Meet the Press." I don't ever go expecting to find any particular item. It is the eight years of stumbling around swap meets that gradually yielded my accumulation of tools, shop equipment, knives, anvils, vises, and other assorted "cool guy" stuff.

Sadly, nobody thinks of me as a cool guy. It won't be long before the piranhas start swimming my way.

Shh, we want people who whine about not finding vintage USA vises to keep whining and not take the initiative to go looking. More vises for the vise collectors that way

No one, and I mean no one is paying $300 for a Parker 4" fixed base. Go look at other larger city Craigslists, you will see other similar vises that people want way too much $ for that have been listed for years. Who knows what's up with that.

 

[Steve_P]

See, that’s where personal preference come into play.

I personally MUCH prefer the Wilton design to most others. I have bought brand new Wilton Tradesman and Machinist vises because it is worth the premium to me.

The action, size, fit and finish, better swivel, and many other features stand out to me as superior and worth the extra money.

There’s enough people like me that they still make and sell them and can command that premium.

I agree. Many people here, including me, will pay for quality even if it doesn't greatly improve function. But we are a tiny percent of the market. I have a USA Tradesman and like it. But, the Chinese ADI-6 I have is every bit as nice, or nicer as far as fit and machining quality. And it sells for considerably less than a Tradesman, list is ~$350. Wiltons will always be on the back of service trucks because of the enclosed screw, but the ADI is a great vise for the $.

If I was going to buy another vise, for indoor use, it'd be another ADI and not another Wilton. It really is nice, and, as a bonus, I was surprised how well it did in testing.

 

[Parrothead]

Swap meets and flea markets are where the contents of a garage, backyard or small shop are being hastily sold by someone forced to move.

But time is money. If you need a vise now, you gotta pay the price or go cheap.

Wandering around swap meets is a form of exercise for me.

Shh, we want people who whine about not finding vintage USA vises to keep whining and not take the initiative to go looking. More vises for the vise collectors that way

I’d rather go to the dentist than wander around a flea market or swap meet looking at someone’s old toaster or other piles of rubbish.

The ReStore is plenty for me, thanks. I’ve watched Flea Market Flip on HGTV a few times to know that’s a place I’d rather not visit. At least you’re getting some exercise out of it.

To each their own, and if you enjoy it and get good deals, good for you!

 

[isb cornbinder]

My vise needs are not at the level where the vise is likely to break. I did appreciate the video, but, I must admit I cringed a little as each vise was pushed to destruction.
I understand this information is valued by some trades. This is much like the government safety tests all cars must go through.
I respect Jason and his Fireball tool company. I wish I could afford a set of his squares. This fabrication industry needs companies like Fireball and Guys like Jason.

 

[mike93lx]

They also sell an Asian-made forged vise on their website that looks exactly like the Capri models.

That was already posted in this thread