Cleaning brake calipers and carriers - best tool?

[nmlss2006]

Folks,
I figured someone here will probably know: I have removed and disassembled calipers and carriers from an early 00s car. They had never been cleaned in 19 years and 90kmi, so there is a fair amount of rust and brake dust on them.

I tried an ultrasonic parts cleaner with Evaporust, a combo which usually gives pretty good results, but I haven't gotten very far.

After that I put them in a vise, took the drill and (several) brass wire brushes out and proceeded to try cleaning off the worst of the stuff with those, intending to give them a second dunk in the parts cleaner afterwards.

However, the work is very time consuming, geometrically difficult (getting into the various areas is hard to impossible) and honestly not that astoundingly good from a results perspective: most of the rust seems to come off, but there remains a weird black deposit which, however, doesn't seem to be brake dust because a) it's thick and b) it doesn't come off even with a chisel... so it almost looks like the steel is selectively leaving carbon deposits down?

Would I be better off with a sandblaster of some kind? Are the 'open' models any good for this type of work or should I look for a cabinet? I have four calipers, four carriers and then I have the knuckles etc that are on the car to treat as well.

As an alternative, could I use a grinder with a flapper wheel? The problem there of course is accessing anything that is concave...

Looking forward to suggestions, insults etc.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Scrape, file, use a cookie on a die grinder. If they really are that bad just purchase a set of reman calipers.

 

[Mr_John]

If the car is only from the early 2000's, is there a reason you're just not ordering replacement parts - are the parts that expensive? And by carriers, are you referring to the part that mounts to the hub that the "carrier bolts" go through? Setting aside the calipers with rubber seals for a second, gasoline is a great degreaser for something like a carrier... and I would think that a high speed electric drill with a wire wheel (along with a wire wheeled Dremel) would be a good way to clean up these cast metal surfaces.

Btw, are you restoring a vehicle? I have to ask if it's really worth all of this work to begin with, and depending on the car, sometimes the parts are inexpensive, and even available in a salvage yard... so, again, is it worth it if the calipers and carriers are in this type of shape?

 

[kctyphoon]

If youre trying to make them look new - the time and aggravation spent, it would probably be worth it to just buy them new..

I bought new calipers from Rock auto for my 95 f350 dually, and you can even buy them loaded with pads in them already.

For whatever the reasons might be - the ‘easy’ thing to do if youre intent on keeping what you have, is to find a place that does powder coating. They will have a sand blaster. You can have them do it - and maybe even consider having them powder coated too if this is a project. It souldnt be very expensive, but youd need to rebuild them if you decided to get them powder coated as well. If you just wanna pay to get them sand blasted, just tape off what you dont want them to do.

The alternative is to either keep at it with a wire wheel, buy your own blasting stuff, OR - buy a ******** with media. (Think ultrasonic cleaner but using a physical abrasive like clay cat litter or steel pins)

Here’s a vid of one. For the record - if you search on YouTube, make sure you search ‘Large Media ********’ instead of ‘Large ********’.. just trust me.

Just to add - if you're just trying to paint them to make em look nice, you really dont have to go crazy. Just get the heavy stuff off. Spray with rust converter, and then black enamel or caliper paint. I usually throw some black paint on my calipers for my Honda when i do brakes just to keep them from looking ******. They get minimal prep work. Wire brush or wheel, sprayed down with brake cleaner - and then hit with paint seconds afterwards. They are back on the car before the paint even fully dries.

The mechanics on here will probably blow a fuse - but if im replacing rotors - those get painted with the calipers too. Right on the car. I spray everything, even the brake surface. Let them dry over night on the car, and then just drive normally. The pads will wear off, burn off the paint on every area the pads contact - and everything they dont remains painted black. I notice no difference in the braking at all. By the end of the day it looks like I spent hours doing what i did I seconds. Everything visible on the rotors the pads dont touch, the calibers, all stay painted black. It looks much cleaner then letting everything rust and this is by no means a show car. I dont think ive washed it in over a year right now.

 

[Wrench97]

Sand blast and a file past that buy a set of rebuilt loaded w/pads

 

[bwringer]

Use steel wire brushes. You're not going to get much of anywhere with brass.

Or yeah, just replace. Look at the cost of replacements on RockAuto.com and ponder the worth of your time and effort.

 

[dogdog]

I always spray them with some sort of cleaner then run them on a grinder with the wire wheel... use the locking plier to hold the non thread portions of cause...

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Edge of a cut-off wheel is my go-to. Quickly cleans to clean metal, then grease it, hardware, and grease again. Mine is technically a die-grinder with a cut-off arbor.

 

[rcbk00]

I second what bwringer said- you have to use steel wire wheels. I use the $5 kit (part #60475) from Harbor Freight. I also have some of the 4" wire wheels (part #60318) for the nooks and crannies the smaller wheels won't reach. I use them in a Makita right angle drill, but they can also be used in a regular drill or a die grinder. After I get everything nice and clean, I use a small acid brush to put a light coat of brake grease on the surfaces where the pads sit.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Would I be better off with a sandblaster of some kind? Are the 'open' models any good for this type of work or should I look for a cabinet?

A sandblaster is the fastest tool. A cabinet model is the easiest to use, but requires a lot of air.

Second best is a die grinder with various "scothbright" discs.

Third is a Mueller-Kueps 460 202 Thin Brake Caliper File

For $2 and #3 knowing WHERE to clean is imperative ! The area behind the stainless steel clips is the most important !! With the SS clips installed, the pads should install easily. If not they require more cleaning. Also, it is more important to have adequate grease BEHIND the SS clips than of the front side.

Another area usually overlooked (or not adequately prepared) are the slide pins/bolts and the bore they ride in. A bench grinder with a wire wheel is usually adequate. If you don't have access to one, spend the money on new pins/bolts.

Last the only way to clean the bores that the pins/bolts ride in is to take a drill one size down and "waller out" the bores. You really don't to remove metal, just and rust/deposits. A proper caliber, steel gun cleaning brush works good also. Just make sure to use a liberal amount of brake cleaner to remove any residue.

Frequently, Rock Auto stocks complete rebuilt bracket and caliper assemblies with new pins. If you live in the NE or MW (or any place that has snow and uses salt) and don't have the tools I mentioned, you are better off buying a rebuilt caliper and bracket assembly !

 

[nmlss2006]

First of all, thanks everyone.

I'll try to answer in order: first of all, yes, the carriers are the pieces of steel which get bolted to the steering knuckles and have the pins on which the (floating) caliper slides.

Secondly, unfortunately, because this is a low-production car, replacements are $900+ per side for the fronts alone and not terribly easy to find even if you're willing to pay for them - no, Rockauto doesn't stock them and finding 'new used' ones at a breaker's is pretty unlikely (...). Thus, going new is not my first choice, even though it's possible as a last resort.

I did consider one of the media vibrators as kctyphoon mentioned - your pointer on google searches is noted and agreed with, by the by - but the carriers will not fit in the '18lb' models that I could find - and larger ones seem to step right up into the 'shop tool' category with prices to match.

There seems to be a fair consensus on a) steel brushes and b) grinders instead of drills. I'll play around with the angle a bit, I do have a Makita grinder... somewhere... but I think there are quite a few places where I won't be able to reach.

Thus, the last alternative, sandblasting... I do have a fairly large compressor, an 80gal 8HP deal which is older than I am by the tag on it but keeps on chugging. It doesn't have an air output tag on it but I believe it can deliver over 12cfm @ 90PSI from a few tests I ran.

I guess I'll start looking for a sandblasting cabinet if the grinder doesn't work as I'd like.. though it is quite possible I'll end up sleeping in the garage for a week or so because I have a ... slight tool problem. I'm sure I'm in pretty good company over here .

 

[Bobioz1]

Since you already have air, get a needle scaler. And some ear protection.

 

[nmlss2006]

I'll add: local places for this kind of work, even just for the sandblasting, are not particularly interested in what they perceive as a 'small' job. They've been giving me the runaround and/or quoting 'go away' prices.

It is true that there aren't that many of them within a reasonable distance.

And no, I am not particularly interested in making them look new. I want to get down to 'decently bare metal', shoot them with primer (more likely rust converter, actually, which acts as a passable primer I've seen) + dark grey paint for protection and put them back on. The car is a driver, not a show car, but I'd like to delay further corrosion damage as much as possible.

Let me look into needle scalers too.

 

[kctyphoon]

You realize NOW, everyone wants to know what kinda car it is....

I got wire brushes for my girders when i was trying to remove all the rust and paint/undercoat my trucks frame. You’d be amazed how much more aggressive those are compared to using a drill. Between a standard wire wheel, and the 90 degree cup style brush, where werent many places I couldn’t get to..

Years ago i had a place powder coat a bunch of motorcycle parts for me. They were more than willing to take in a few small parts. Maybe try asking a local body shop??? Craigslist ad?? Unless you want an excuse to buy a blasting cabinet - cause seems like you have a big enough compressor.

 

[HMCFab9]

Blast them.
In the time you spent here asking questions about how to do it..... you could have had them done & painted already

 

[pbon]

First of all, thanks everyone.

I'll try to answer in order: first of all, yes, the carriers are the pieces of steel which get bolted to the steering knuckles and have the pins on which the (floating) caliper slides.

Secondly, unfortunately, because this is a low-production car, replacements are $900+ per side for the fronts alone and not terribly easy to find even if you're willing to pay for them - no, Rockauto doesn't stock them and finding 'new used' ones at a breaker's is pretty unlikely (...). Thus, going new is not my first choice, even though it's possible as a last resort.

Years ago, I sent a set of limited production calipers out to a rebuilder and they came back cleaned, painted and with new hardware for about $50 each. I found the place through a local friend who worked for a parts shop. Might be one in your region, though rebuilding is a good experience to go once. I did it with a blast cabinet years ago. Cap the bleeders or replace with bolts for blasting. You will have to hand finish after you remove the pistons.

 

[Mr_John]

Makes sense - I was guessing that there was likely a high parts cost explanation as the reason for not looking for new or rebuilds. That said, what are your goals? 100% authenticity - is this going to be a show car with matching numbers, or are you rebuilding a limited production vehicle as a daily driver? If it's the latter, then there are NO aftermarket parts for the car - nada? Or, are the parts available, just not OE?

I'd still think a wire brush on a high speed corded drill would typically do the job, and is easy to handle given the non-flat surfaces of the parts you're trying to refinish. As far as sand blasting goes, I have a HF media blasting gun that connects to an air hose... so, you can sand blast without a media cabinet. Angle grinders are big and aggressive... the cupped wire brush seems to be a good idea, but a small grinder may be easier to handle for a job like this (a 4 in vs a 4.5 in, for ex).

Regardless, pics would be awesome.

 

[Roundhouse]

Pics of the car ?

You tried Media blasting with glass or soda ?

 

[byacey]

I try and avoid cleaning or disturbing them in any way. I don't know if they have come up with a new replacement, but brake pads and shoes traditionally used asbestos, and raising asbestos dust into the air isn't a good thing to be breathing.

 

[Wrench97]

Here in the states asbestos has pretty much been out of brakes and clutches for 20 years.

Under federal law, asbestos brake production is supposed to stop in 1993 and auto manufacturers are supposed to stop using it in new cars by 1995. By 1997, all asbestos brake linings are supposed to be off store shelves and out of new cars.

 

[nmlss2006]

Sorry folks, work took over so updates are deferred until tomorrow.

Anyways: the car is really 'nothing special', it's an old BMW. Pics to follow.

I did order a needle scaler which will come in handy for the parts retrieval truck even if I don't use it here. IR 125 series, I've had good luck with their stuff and I own quite a bit of it.

As to the rest: the goal as stated before is to have a daily driver that will not get worse with time. Since this car drives 600 miles a week 48 weeks a year, for now, getting rid of any rust AND preventing future occurrence is a high priority. Thus the painting (and Fluid film everywhere, but that's another story). The idea is to then transition it to the collector side of things, once I persuade my esteemed SO to use something different to commute. Thus there is a further 'future authenticity' factor to consider.
I will install OEM parts, but they have to be OEM - and from a manufacturer known not to cut corners on non OE parts, there are several bad stories there. ATE calipers for this car were available in Europe 15 years ago, they have since gone NLA.

Incidentally, asbestos in brake materials has not been a concern for at least 20 years, so we're safe there. Nonetheless, I was wearing a full suit, a 3M full face mask, hearing protection etc - and working outside. Yes, call me paranoid. I am.

I have not tried any media yet due to lack of equipment, but I'm leaning that way for three reasons: 1) less effort 2) less time 3) less chance to damage the parts. Cast iron is comparatively soft and one of my concerns is not to damage the areas where there will be pad/caliper/carrier interaction. No, there are no stainless steel slider surfaces as there are in many other imports, so the cast iron surface has to be pretty good indeed to avoid trouble: these calipers are big, the pads of course are big as a consequence and they REALLY should not be floating. It's pretty easy to get a jammed pad with all that follows and since this is not MY daily but my SO's daily.. I get to do it right the first time or else

I'm leaning towards one of those 'open' media blasting solutions mostly because I MAY be able to use it on the knuckles on the car too... if I'm lucky, use lots of tarps and tape-and-drape. The cabinet may come in handy for other things and I may pick one up in the future, but it seems less versatile for this particular application, plus I can use the same setup on the forementioned truck as well...

Mind, if I didn't have any alternatives I'd buckle down with the brush on a drill, take a weekend and call it done. As things stand, I'll have to do that at least for the rear suspension - I am not taking THAT apart to clean it up, BTDT not doing it unless it's necessary - so I am trying to save as much time as I can on the rest.

I am fully cognizant, finally, that this is not worth my time stictu sensu but it is my 'downtime' activity so I indulge. I just do so in the most efficient way possible - and as I mentioned, local shops in this part of NJ are really pretty uninterested, so that avenue is effectively unavailable. Not to mention I'd have to trust them to do a good enough job, but that's another story for another time.

 

[nmlss2006]

Midday update: it's POSSIBLE to do the work with a brass brush in a drill. It's FASTER to do the job with a knotted steel brush in an air grinder.

...I'm going to buy a sand blaster. Back soon.

 

[metlmunchr]

Google "rust removal by electrolysis". If you have a battery charger, this is by far the cheapest and easiest method to remove rust.

 

[Mr_John]

I was wondering if it was a Bimmer... read some amazing story on Jalopnik about somebody FULLY restoring an old 80's Bimmer 318, I think it was. I have to run, now, but I'm sure if you googled... wait, found it:

https://jalopnik.com/heres-exactly-what-it-cost-me-to-buy-and-rebuild-a-bmw-1834776367

It's a 1989 BMW 325i... great article. Look forward to the updates, as well.

 

[Shark Pilot]

If you need rebuilt calipers, then check out Centric - I bought a pair of rears for an E28 a few years ago from Turner and that's who did the reman. Centric still lists them on their website.

Just cleaned up a set of 40 year old calipers off my MG. Used "nylon fiber" type wire wheel which you can get at HF, or Amazon. You would be surprised how well these work.

 

[nmlss2006]

And an (overdue) update: I never did use the needle scaler in the end.
But, I did use the larger HF sandblaster as well as the brushes I mentioned before.

The short version is what several of you have said, the sandblaster is just faster and less work, even though the HF shell media is possibly even too gentle and it took more than I was expecting. The carriers came out clean, the calipers themselves came out as well as I was willing to work for while avoiding all the surfaces that should not be scored (guide pin holes, piston bore, threads, etc).

Unfortunately, electrolysis would have impacted those to some degree, so it was not an option.
Neither was Centric unfortunately, nobody seems to want to remanufacture the big two-piston calipers for the 750/Z8.

I do want to try the nylon fibre / scotchbrite brushes and wheels and it looks like I will have PLENTY of other opportunities to do so.

Thanks everyone for the help, until next time!