VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[drivesitfar]

COB: thanks for your input/thoughts and yep i'm still planning on using 3/4 inch 400 alloy bolts cause I can and not because I was or am worried that a 1/2 inch bolt wouldn't hold well enough. my big Reed 4c is 178 pounds and even though i'll probably never have a transmission or anything really huge in it's jaws it will look better on my bench with these bolts.

that said your dad's vise is very clean and it's a swivel jaw with no writing on the side. i'd say it's a Prentiss except the main screw's hub isn't the right shape so do you know what brand and size it is. also what is the finish cause it looks sort of like BLO?

hopefully i won't break anything including me when drilling the 7/8 inch holes in my 350 pound steel bench.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Good luck.

Yes, it's a Prentiss 456. 6", 180 lbs or so. Late model and rare. I've been told it's made by Parker. davethorik on here also has a couple. Dad inherited it with little use, so it's in very good shape. We don't collect, so it gets used frequently. Finish is black rattle can, but it's always got some sort of dirt on it from the last project.

 

[drivesitfar]

COB: great looking vise and I knew Parker bought Prentiss just around WWII, but I can't recall seeing too many Prentiss swivel jaw vises with Parker handles on them. or any that size. I owned a couple Prentiss #23's that were similar and here's one to show your dad in case he cares about this stuff that is now another on another member's bench.

ALL: I know there are a lot of you spiffing up your vises so posting a few before and after pics with any of the process and/or challenges might help others if you have time to post up a few please do!!

hope you are all having a great weekend and maybe picking up your dream vise if you have one.

 

[lis2323]

Drives you will not be able to use a step drill. They are only for thin stock up to 1/4”.

If you borrow or rent a Mag drill you will need one that is capable of 3” drilling depth. Many only handle 2” travel.

In my opinion it doesn’t matter if 1/2” bolts will do the job. Use the bolt diameter the vise base was machined for. You will be glad you did otherwise wimpy bolts would ruin the look of that vise mounted on a 2.5” steel top.

Too bad you weren’t closer. I have a drill you could borrow.

 

[drivesitfar]

LIS: the way I worded it must have looked like my bench was a huge steel one with 2.5 inch plate on top which it's not. it's a nice 350 pound old steel bench, but the top has 2 plates on top of it that are 1/4 inch thick so it's only 1/2 inch total and maybe the main issue why i'm asking is cause one of the holes from an old vise that i'm making bigger has shows a small maybe 1/8 to 1/4 gap between the steel plates. I was a bit concerned just putting a 7/8 bit in that hole and catching the gap and having the drill try to break my arm or wrist cause i'm fairly strong but my big drills have a ton of torque.

I wish you were closer cause don't you have a little set of diamond or carbide tip hole saws? do you still have a picture saved to post of those bits please do?

ALL: I've been looking and I like the GREENLEE name and found a deal on some step drills that could work. anybody use this brand or have a favorite to help me get these 7/8 inch holes in my bench top feel free to comment.

 

[lis2323]

Oops. Sorry. I misunderstood the thickness of your bench top.

You definitely CANNOT use annular cutters as the gap between the sheets will ruin the bit. A regular twist drill would work best. Maybe a 1/4” or 3/8” pilot hole with a sharp bit then jump up to 3/4 or 7/8 (your final size). Use a coolant. A little water and oil will work.

Do NOT drill a bunch of times with incrementally larger drill bits.

 

[drivesitfar]

LIS: now we are on the same page. what are your cutters called that are pretty spendy and look like small hole saws on steroids? are those annular?

 

[lis2323]

Drives. I just took a couple of pics for you.

Annular cutters



Coolant

 

[lis2323]

As mentioned you will not be able to cut through the two layers of 1/4” safely with a regular annular cutter. You would need a “stack cut” cutter.

They are called differently depending on the manufacturer.

 

[drivesitfar]

LIS: do you need a mag drill to use those or just a regular 1/2 or 3/4 inch drill? have you found a piece of steel too thick to drill a hole in or how deep is about the limit for you? thanks for the pics!!

ALL: one of our young GJ members need a good hunk of steel for the base of his big old blacksmith vise so I gave him a couple of these chunks a couple years ago knowing that they'd be hard for me to move around. these are 4 inches thick and just a tad heavy to move around. he tapped a hole in each of the tops when he got home and put eye bolts in each one so he could put a chain on them and use his lift. we hand loaded them in his truck.

i'm not sure he posted much of his welding and fixing of the big 7 inch blacksmith vise so if any of you have old vises you are repairing please post a few pics here even if you just want to post to brag a bit.

thanks in advance

 

[lis2323]

Drives. Sheet metal cutters which are shallow annular cutters can be used in a regular drill chuck. Larger annular cutters would need a mag drill or drill press with a Weldon coupler.

My mag drills only have 2” spindle travel. Models with more travel are more expensive as are the longer cutters necessary for deeper holes.

 

[drivesitfar]

LIS: i'm still kicking myself that I didn't buy one of the nice mag drills at the many many sales I've been at where I spent my cash on a vise or more wrenches and clamps and such. not that I don't like my tools, but I should get a mag drill.

thanks for the lessons!!

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: here's the greenlee bits i'm thinking of buying this week to drill the holes. also Lis mentioned on my Organizing thread that a BIG DRILL would be better than my 1/2 HP Milwaukee angle drill. if I can find my big drills in the box or buckets they are in at my storage unit after moving my shop a BIG DRILL it will be. otherwise i'll try to make due with my 1/2 HP milwaukee. also i'm thinking of drilling out one of the old vise mounting holes in my bench that is maybe 1/2 inch now to 7/8th's and it's a mess so wondering if I can just drill in with the big Greenlee bit and clean it up? i'll take a few pictures of the old hole if anybody wants to see what MESS i'm talking about just ask.

anybody use these Greenlee Kwik step drill bits and want to say something good or not?

any vises get spiffed up or bought to fix how about a few pics here?

cheers

 

[dahwheel]

I restored a Pony vise with the rustoleum hammered copper finish and it came out very attractive

 

[Outlawmws]

I restored a Pony vise with the rustoleum hammered copper finish and it came out very attractive

Pics?

 

[Duderino]

Brought home a Parker Union 976 B today and started to break it down. It’s in great condition and shows minimal wear ( it’s home was a huge chemical plant so I’m shocked at its condition).

Came apart great till I went to remove the main nut and expected to see a pin to punch out and came across a small metal plate wedged in the back. Looking from the bottom there is no hole to punch a pin out through.

Is this by design or did someone make a quick repair? And how the heck do I get it out, lol.

 

[davethorik]

Does it need to come out? I'd leave it be.

 

[Duderino]

Guess your right. Just wanted to clean everything up.

 

[drivesitfar]

Dude: my guess is that is original if there isn't a hole drilled for a pin. when Union took over Parker (who bought Prentiss) and their 100 year old vise company they used a lot of extra Parker vise parts to make their vises until they closed the vise company down in the late 50's.

that said since you they were using spare parts so to speak and probably had new employees too my guess is one employee thought that was an easier better way to hold the vise nut in place.

i'm with Dave and now you that if it ain't broke don't mess with it and it actually looks pretty clean so maybe just put some grease inside the threads and put the vise back together.

in case you'd like to have one of your favorite pictures come up under your name like I did with the scrap steel welded together to make a bison go in your profile and click on Avatar and download one. not necessary, but it will let others get to know you and your avatar if you stick around.

any full size pics of your big Parker made by Union?

 

[Duderino]

Thanks, I’ll work on the Avatar tomorrow. Here’s a few pics. It’s going into an electrolysis bath tomorrow. Too much surface to wire wheel and too much evapo-rust for my wallet.

 

[drivesitfar]

Dude: pics of it look great and after an E bath it should look even better. also that model vise can be mounted as a swivel base of a non swivel and for that size i'd prefer making a stand and making it a non swivel base, but it's your vise and your call.

nice find!!!

 

[Duderino]

That’s exactly my plan. Got a piece 6” pipe laying around and found a really nice base of perfectly round 16”-3” thick steel leftover on a job. It’s either that or make a table big enough to hold this thing and I don’t have room for that.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Guys Real soon, I need to get started cleaning up the Reed 104-1/2 I recently picked up. How does the main screw separate from the dynamic jaw? I appreciate the advice I know is coming. In case, you want to see a pic, again...

 

[drivesitfar]

TEX: while somebody else that has taken apart their old Reed vise shows up to let you know there are a ton of REED restorations in this thread you can look up.

I haven't removed the main screws from their dynamic jaw on my old Reed's yet, but that shouldn't be too hard. I also don't usually remove the vise nuts unless there is an issue.

I can tell you that you'll probably need a big drag link for big screw holding the swivel base on your vise and I couldn't find one and removed the one on my big Reed 4c last week using a huge washer with one side ground off and i put it on an eye bolt with a couple nuts to secure the washer so i'd have a little leverage. sometimes these big bolts are loose for some reason and some are a PITA to remove.

here's the pic of my eye bolt washer tool that worked for me in a pinch when the drag link wasn't easy to find.

good luck and document your restoration with a few pictures of taking it apart and putting it back together if you would cause i'm sure there are others that don't want to go thru the entire thread to find their answers.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: some of you that don't read the big vise thread, but do read this one i just heard that CARLA has passed on to the golden shop beyond GJ. her knowledge and willing to share with all of us was like no other and she will be missed.

any of you that have read or that will read one of her posts know that she knew her stuff and she was more than willing to help and share her knowledge.

RIP CARLA I truly enjoyed our conversations and i'll miss the ones that you would have written if you were around, but I will always remember you!!

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Thanks Drives! I read you used that eye bolt and a big washer after not being able to find a drag link socket. That's using the old noodle! I've got a 15/16" SK drag link socket but this Reed is a 104-1/2. Not a swiveler. I wasn't planning on removing the nut and hope I have no reason to do that as well. :0) My restoration will just involve cleaning the oil, grease, probably old paint down to bare metal then putting BLO on it. I think that's how you like yours too IIRC. I'll try and search the thread for "Reed restoration" and see what that turns up! Yesterday I did notice a hole on the meatball that might hold a set screw. ??? We'll find out soon.

 

[drivesitfar]

TEX: yep your non swiveler surely won't need the swivel base removed!!

I haven't bought any old Reed vises lately and like I mentioned i haven't taken the screws out, but I seem to recall that they just have a sleeve inside the dynamic with a set screw like a lot of old vises do or maybe I'm mistaken.

sounds like you are going to do just fine spiffing it up and just take your time and if you get stuck stop and ask a few questions or do more research.

i'm not sure you were a member here when i started this thread, but you might go back towards the beginning of it and read a few of CARLA'S posts to see just how smart and nice that woman was.

cheers

 

[Woodreaux]

I have just gotten a Parker 674 1/2, and it has two prominent issues. One is a large chip missing from the jaw just beneath the replaceable jaw plate. For my purposes, I dont this this will affect its use. You can see the missing chip in the photo.

The other and much bigger problem is that I can't get either the swivel set screw or the bottom lug to budge. The set screw is corroded nearly beyond recognition.

I've used Kroil and Liquid Wrench. And I've heated both screws/bolts with a torch. They literally will not move at all. So I am thinking (hoping) I must be doing something wrong.

Question 1: Is there anything to do about the broken piece on the jaw?
Question 2: Are there any other ways that I could try to get the swivel base working again?






I'm relatively new to the forum, and I really appreciate you all being willing to share your opinions and expertise.

 

[drivesitfar]

woodreaux: Sorry I thought one of the guys that has a bunch of Parker vises might be able to help you. I've owned a few and probably have a couple stashed around here so I'll give you a couple suggestions.

1) have you tried electrolysis yet and if not just ask and i'll send you a link to a thread we did on GJ a few years ago that should get you started cause it's not that hard and it might loosen up your stuck vise.

2) the chip or missing cast under the removable jaw if your jaw can be removed has been repaired a number of ways in this thread and the best methods i've seen are machining and brazing and I'm not skilled at either so do a search unless one of those members sees your post.

good luck and welcome to GJ!!

ALL: I saw this video about a young guy showing the clamping power and the what it would take to bust a few nice vises and a repaired Prentiss actually held up pretty well. he made a vise that looked like it won the contest hands down and i'll watch that video another day, but thought some of you might like to see this video even though I'd never recommend hammering on or using your vise as a press.

WANTED: anybody have a Rock Island #142 with it's original plate under the bench and above the wing nut cause mine is homemade so i'm looking to see what one looks like or maybe trade something for one if you have one sitting around. here's mine that actually has the pipe jaws which are usually MIA.

 

[Woodreaux]

Thanks!

I put a torch on the bottom screw and then used a 24" breaker bar, and that ultimately did the trick.

What I found inside was disheartening. I am still trying to figure a way to explain the swivel base being completely full of dirt. Some of it is rust, but it was about 1/2" deep.

Nonetheless, I was feeling really good about getting the base off.... So I promptly broke the swivel tensioner while trying to loosen it (with a rubber mallet).

So now I'm trolling eBay for replacement swivel base parts....

Any suggestions on locating recent parts?


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[drivesitfar]

Wood: in my area I don't see many Parker vises and the ones I do usually have some issues. that said Parker made a great vise and some members really have some nice ones.

there is a vise parts thread here on GJ you can make a post asking for the parts, but not sure that gets the job done.check Ebay for parts too. Maybe put this vise on the shelf until the parts show up and find yourself another oldie to work on and use.

Happy to hear you got it apart and sorry it had a few unexpected issues.

good luck

 

[akasrick]

WANTED: anybody have a Rock Island #142 with it's original plate under the bench and above the wing nut cause mine is homemade so i'm looking to see what one looks like or maybe trade something for one if you have one sitting around. here's mine that actually has the pipe jaws which are usually MIA.

Drives; the washer to the right in this picture is what is used on a Bonney undermount vise. Bought that way.

Here is a picture what a "cast" washer looked like in 1896--Prentiss catalogue.

Looks like the present day washers, raised on the outside surface.
https://www.portlandbolt.com/products/washers/ogee/
And here is a picture of a raised toward the inside.
https://www.grainger.com/category/fasteners/washers?attrs=Material%7CCast+Iron&filters=attrs
Same Washer

Whats on the Bonney aren't raised as much.

What Rock Island used I don't know. Have you checked the vise spread sheet for what one would look like?
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7243749&postcount=497

Home made works.

akasrick

 

[drivesitfar]

AKA: thanks for the post and for trying to help.

hopefully somebody will post their Rock Island #142 with it's original plate so I can see what I need to look for or have made. the homemade one that is on it now sure isn't pretty and not sure functional, but this vise doesn't have a bench to sit on so it's just going to sit on a shelf with it's Rock Island and Reed relatives.

ALL: while we are talking about the bolt thru design I have this Reed #31 that is of course missing it's pipe jaws, but it does have the big wing nut and the metal plate.

 

[akasrick]

AKA: thanks for the post and for trying to help.

hopefully somebody will post their Rock Island #142 with it's original plate so I can see what I need to look for or have made. the homemade one that is on it now sure isn't pretty and not sure functional, but this vise doesn't have a bench to sit on so it's just going to sit on a shelf with it's Rock Island and Reed relatives.

ALL: while we are talking about the bolt thru design I have this Reed #31 that is of course missing it's pipe jaws, but it does have the big wing nut and the metal plate.

No problem Drives, this plate is a paste up (JB Weld, then drilled) of two 3/16" x 3 1/4" flat washers.

-------------------------

That's just to look at have no idea if it will hold up being used.

akasrick

 

[cmccoy]

That is such a sweet vise even with the issues! I really love that style of vise!

 

[Woodreaux]

.check Ebay for parts too. Maybe put this vise on the shelf ....

I've started trolling eBay looking for the parts. One bright side: I was cleaning up the base today and found that it was marked 974 1/2, which should be a lot easier to find parts for. If I had to find 674 1/2 specific parts I think it would be on the shelf for a long, long time...

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[kenc184]

I have just gotten a Parker 674 1/2, and it has two prominent issues. One is a large chip missing from the jaw just beneath the replaceable jaw plate. For my purposes, I dont this this will affect its use. You can see the missing chip in the photo.

The other and much bigger problem is that I can't get either the swivel set screw or the bottom lug to budge. The set screw is corroded nearly beyond recognition.

I've used Kroil and Liquid Wrench. And I've heated both screws/bolts with a torch. They literally will not move at all. So I am thinking (hoping) I must be doing something wrong.

Question 1: Is there anything to do about the broken piece on the jaw?
Question 2: Are there any other ways that I could try to get the swivel base working again?



I'm relatively new to the forum, and I really appreciate you all being willing to share your opinions and expertise.

I would braze weld this. I posted my repair to my 6" Prentiss which had the same area broken off it's jaw shelf too. Not sure if it was this thread or the otehr vise thread. I thought about leaving the chunk, but it bugged me.

You will need to put a lot of heat into your vise to be able to reach brazing temps though, the vise is like a huge heat sink. Still if I could do it on a 130lb 6" Prentiss you will for sure be able to on a 70lb (?) 4-1/2" vise.

 

[kenc184]

I recently bought the ugliest 1750 Tradesman Wilton with a number of issue. None terrible, but as an accumulation it made for a real dog. Still, for $60 I figured I could fix them all and be able to turn it into something decent. One of the big issues was the fact that the jaw screws were frozen solid. an impact driver would not shift them.

In the end I had to drill out the heads and remove the one and a half jaws that were present (luckily I had a spare jaw from another 1750 which I recently purchased a new set for ).

I've often wondered what the best way to remove stuck bolts is - in this case of course, the machine screws are now basically stuck studs with only the shank to grab on to.



Vise grips would not budge any of the studs, the shanks just got mangled as the vise grip rotated.

Thought I would try a few different techniques with the oxy.

1) Heat the jaw locally around the stud, trying my best not to directly heat the stud. Once cherry red spray the stud with "coolant". In this case WD40 was lying around. It resulted in some pyrotechnics but the stud came out like butter after this. I can't say if any of the WD40 got sucked down into the threads but it was the easiest stud to remove.

2) Heat the same way but no wd40 spray. Stud rotated out easily, but not as smoothly as 1) above

3) I had heard that heating the stud directly to an orange red and allowing it to cool would break up the rust fusing the two together. Well, it works. I did this on the remaining two studs and both rotated out easily, but again not as easily as 1) above. However, one HELL of a lot less heat input required versus 1) and 2) above.

Anyway, FWIW as they say.

 

[KMScott]

I purchased a Prentiss # 58 several years ago and starting to repair it. It was used for years without one jaw. The damage is very obvious. To fix this I first had to machine the base so for one it will sit on a bench without rocking and putting stress on the ears. The other was so I could clamp it down to my mill.

The hard part is aligning the vise perpendicular to the machine so the jaw channel would be parallel to the Dynamic jaw when the vise closes. I had some 12' parallel's and pinched them out so I could align them. I found the square slider hole was not the same width on each end so I aligned the vise by centering each side with my indicator. Took a good hour but I got it.

I then had to create the top step and center the screwholes for the 7/8 wide x 1/4 deep boss. Right away I seen why this vise never had a jaw on the Static. The holes were drilled crooked, ranging .125 off at the left side and .07 lower at the right side. The holes were not even tapped. I built a set of thicker jaws to alow the missing material it took to clean up. I finished it and it will work fine after I plug the screw hole areas with a 5/8:11 plug installed with red lock tite and the holes drilled and tapped for 5/16:18 threads.
I know most do not have a mill to do work like this but for the ones that do this is a way I have found that will work. Kevin

 

[jrobb316]

Wood: PM me, I just picked up a 974 1/2 this weekend for parts. Broken dynamic jaw but the swivel base is good!

Edit: Just took it apart to inspect. The brake shoes where they go around the pin are both broken and the parts are not still there to weld/braze them. The base, wedge, bolt, wrench, and swivel bolt are all in excellent condition. The shoes will still work, so its fully functional as the wedge is what puts pressure against the base. If you're not interested I'm throwing it out there for anyone needing 974 1/2 parts! Spindle is straight, nut is good, and the static assembly is excellent too.