Is it normal for cutters not to fully meet on Kleins?

[dwasifar]

Brand new pair of Klein linemans, my first of this brand. (Previously owned CL and CM.) The cutter blades don't fully meet:

Is this normal for this brand? Is it that way so they will wear in before they wear out? Or is this a defect?

 

[DSLTRK]

Brand new pair of Klein linemans, my first of this brand. (Previously owned CL and CM.) The cutter blades don't fully meet:

Is this normal for this brand? Is it that way so they will wear in before they wear out? Or is this a defect?

Normal. It is to compensate for break-in of the pivot.

 

[dwasifar]

Normal. It is to compensate for break-in of the pivot.

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[mr.lemons]

Normal. It is to compensate for break-in of the pivot.

Really? Don't think that can be true can it?

 

[dwasifar]

Really? Don't think that can be true can it?

I can totally see how that would work. As the pivot wears, play increases and the angle would shift.

 

[davethorik]

That's just closed, no pressure on grips correct?
I just took a look at some various cutters I have laying around.

Klein 2000 series rebar pliers, similar to yours but rated for hard, same gap (new)
Klein 2000 series angle head diagonal cutters- meet 100% (well used)
Klein 8" needle nose- cutters have gap shown, but then the tips come back and touch (new)
Knipex needle nose combo pliers 08 21 145- meet 100% (lightly used)
Knipex 8" end nippers- meet evenly only at outside edges (well used)
Knipex 10" diagonal cutters- meet at tip, with 60% gap toward pivot (lightly used)

Aaaaand survey says- unless cutters are chipped or severely worn, when you squeeze the grips the gap disappears in all models with gap.

 

[dwasifar]

That's just closed, no pressure on grips correct?
I just took a look at some various cutters I have laying around.

Klein 2000 series rebar pliers, similar to yours but rated for hard, same gap (new)
Klein 2000 series angle head diagonal cutters- meet 100% (well used)
Klein 8" needle nose- cutters have gap shown, but then the tips come back and touch (new)
Knipex needle nose combo pliers 08 21 145- meet 100% (lightly used)
Knipex 8" end nippers- meet evenly only at outside edges (well used)
Knipex 10" diagonal cutters- meet at tip, with 60% gap toward pivot (lightly used)

Aaaaand survey says- unless cutters are chipped or severely worn, when you squeeze the grips the gap disappears in all models with gap.

That is with very light pressure on grips, just enough to keep them from falling out of my hand while I took the picture.

If I squeeze down, about half of the gap closes up. It's not really a problem, I should be able to cut wire just fine with the bottom 2/3 of the cutter, and if they'll wear in, so much the better. I was just curious.

 

[KnurledNut]

Its to compensate for when you cut through your first hot 120v. ;-)

 

[Rory Bellows]

Normal. It is to compensate for break-in of the pivot.

I don't think that is correct. I have a pair I bought at a friends grandfather's estate sale. They have a purposeful gap like the ones shown. I've used it twist wires together before putting wire nuts on. I assumed that what it is for but I'm no electrician. BTW, friend's grandfather is 96 and just gave up driving last year. In fact, he was taking tools from the sale and putting them in his trunk to take to his senior living center.

 

[measuredtwice]

Knipex and Klein linesman pliers both have a gap. The first time that I saw it, I also was surprised. But it is how they are made. I looked through entire racks of them when I first noticed it. I also looked at cheapo Irwin linesman pliers and they had a gap too. Most of those were also crooked. Needle nose pliers are made differently and typically meet at the tips or the entire serrated surface.

 

[dwasifar]

Knipex and Klein linesman pliers both have a gap. The first time that I saw it, I also was surprised. But it is how they are made. I looked through entire racks of them when I first noticed it. I also looked at cheapo Irwin linesman pliers and they had a gap too. Most of those were also crooked. Needle nose pliers are made differently and typically meet at the tips or the entire serrated surface.

I'm not talking about the gripping area. I know the tips are not supposed to meet. I'm talking about the cutters.

 

[dwasifar]

Its to compensate for when you cut through your first hot 120v. ;-)

Yeah, I could show you some linemans with telltale evidence of that.

 

[measuredtwice]

I'm not talking about the gripping area. I know the tips are not supposed to meet. I'm talking about the cutters.

Ah. Sorry. At my local store, I noticed that with the Journeyman but not the dipped handles. I think it's quality control.

 

[DSLTRK]

When you use a pair of pliers several thousand times, the uneven shear gap eventually aligns perfectly.

It's a sign of good quality pliers and thoughtful process engineering.


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[KnurledNut]

“Klein pliers are manufactured to perfectly align...”

https://www.kleintools.com/blog/cutting-edge-breakthrough-begins-klein-pliers

 

[kctyphoon]

I immediately looked and my first reaction was , “no ****** way” - till the responses, and i cant tell if people are being sarcastic or not. I just looked at the jaws on half a dozen different brands i have at home, and none of them are like that.. i have about everything BUT Kleins at home. As far as I’m concerned theres no way those should be like that.

Is the idea of “they should align eventually”, a serious response??
As far as I’m concerned - when you close any pliers with a cutting jaw, ESP when brand new, be it needle nose, lineman, diagonal - you should not even see light behind those cutting edges - i mean maybe the most tiny indication of light, but when closed with a little pressure - no, nothing..

The gap at the front of the gripping surface is suppose to be there. The idea is that you can twist wires together without crushing them. I dunno if it necessary, i always thought it was dumb, but - whatever.. thats how they all are.

 

[manwithtools]

I immediately looked and my first reaction was , “no ****** way” - till the responses, and i cant tell if people are being sarcastic.. I just looked at the jaws on half a dozen different brands i have at home, and none of them are like that.. i have about everything BUT Kleins at home. As far as I’m concerned theres no way those should be like that.

Is the idea of “they should align eventually”, a serious response??

I've got to agree with this questioning? Why would I want to exercise a pair of pliers thousands of times just to get them to align like they should day one.

I've got pliers from one to 100 years old and none of them look like that. I wouldn't accept them if they did.

 

[dwasifar]

The gap at the front of the gripping surface is suppose to be there. The idea is that you can twist wires together without crushing them. I dunno if it necessary, i always thought it was dumb, but - whatever.. thats how they all are.

I know it is. My understanding is that there's a gap there so that the cutting jaws close with no interference from the tips.

 

[DSLTRK]

People can ***** all they want about it but Klein has been making linesman pliers before their grandparents existed.
They invented the design as well, so yeah.....


I would think they know what they're doing and have more experience than some random person on GJ.

Any person or professional who uses these pliers will find they cut extremely well on the first try. Those who don't, well it's pretty obvious by now...

The point is my linesman pliers had that exact same gap when new and I've used them thousands of times to cut ascr, solid cu, screws, bolts etc and guess what, the jaws have no gap after all that wear and tear.

OP they're fine, enjoy them.

 

[mc4life27]

I was told or read some where that they are supposed to have a gap so you can twist wire and what not with out destroying whatever you grabbing. The cut part I was told that Klein claims it cuts on the bite back that happens when your citing thought or thick items. It helps cushion the snap


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[toplessHO]

they are perfectly aligned
the gap has nothing to do with alignment.
all the cutting leverage is closest to the pin
Kleins are made for cutting wire,not dressmaking.
They do a fine job of cutting wire(copper and aluminum).
Sometimes its a little aggravating when cutting truetape or jetline
or in the old days jetline shots,but thats one of the querks to have them cut well for many years.Normally anything larger than #4 is cut with something other than Linesman pliers,be it small cable cutters,ratchet cutters etc.Your wrists will thank you later for respecting this.

 

[toplessHO]

And BTW most that use them day in and day out will say
given the choice of losing left nut or Kleins,they will keep the Kleins.

 

[DSLTRK]

they are perfectly aligned
the gap has nothing to do with alignment.
all the cutting leverage is closest to the pin
Kleins are made for cutting wire,not dressmaking.
They do a fine job of cutting wire(copper and aluminum).
Sometimes its a little aggravating when cutting truetape or jetline
or in the old days jetline shots,but thats one of the querks to have them cut well for many years.Normally anything larger than #4 is cut with something other than Linesman pliers,be it small cable cutters,ratchet cutters etc.Your wrists will thank you later for respecting this.

Tru tape is some tuff stuff. Always a few strands that put up a fight. My pliers can still go through it in two cuts.

 

[kctyphoon]

People can ***** all they want about it but Klein has been making linesman pliers before their grandparents existed.
They invented the design as well, so yeah.....


I would think they know what they're doing and have more experience than some random person on GJ.

Any person or professional who uses these pliers will find they cut extremely well on the first try. Those who don't, well it's pretty obvious by now...

The point is my linesman pliers had that exact same gap when new and I've used them thousands of times to cut ascr, solid cu, screws, bolts etc and guess what, the jaws have no gap after all that wear and tear.


OP they're fine, enjoy them.

Does Klein also engineer some diagonals so the cutting jaws will skip over each other with an audible snap when you apply pressure, but not on others? Its possible that as they pump out tens of thousands of them, at some point the cutting edges or other tooling on their manufacturing line wears a little, and that will result in some making it through with a tiny bit of play in the joint before a bit gets replaced or the tolerances get compensated for on the line.

Nobody here said his pliers wont work. We are saying that ‘No’ - there is not a purposeful engineering design element MEANT to make the cutting edges not touch each other along the full length of the cutter.

 

[dwasifar]

I didn't mean to cause an argument.

I've emailed Klein with that picture, we'll see what they say.

 

[toplessHO]

Tru tape is some tuff stuff. Always a few strands that put up a fight. My pliers can still go through it in two cuts.

try folding it over so youre cutting 2 thicknesses not just one
dont know why it works but it does

 

[kctyphoon]

I didn't mean to cause an argument.

I've emailed Klein with that picture, we'll see what they say.

Nobody is really arguing. With anything that gets mass produced there’s always gonna be a chance that minor differences show up in the finished products. Some joints will be a little more tight than others at the rivet, maybe a grind on one of the cutting edges can be slightly off.. pliers are made in halves so if i had to guess I’d say its likely one half can be formed or finished earlier or later in a run. A minute degree of wear on the tooling or a metal sliver stuck in a jig somewhere can cause a very small degree of difference when those two halves finally get joined. I’m sure those pliers cut fine, and more than likely over time that edge closer to the rivet will wear and that gap would eventually close. My feeling is simply they are not “designed” to have half the cutter edge wear down so that gap ‘would eventually’ close, or to compensate for a rivet being worn after a few years of use.

If you close the handles with a little force and the gap disappears then its not even really an issue, but I’m assuming that picture was taken because that gap doesnt close up at all with the handles squeezed.

Different companies have different philosophies on what the best cutter design is. Channellock for example uses a cutter and anvil type design (at least in diagonals, but i think it might be in their lineman pliers also) to eliminate two sharp edges from being able to skip over each other. One edge is designed to be slightly more blunt. Pretty sure Klein uses two sharpened edges instead, which is why with some of their diagonals you can actually hear the two edges skip sometimes. That said - i dont think anyone designs their cutters so half the edge will wear down faster than the other. That just doesn’t compute for me, but stranger things have been said.

 

[Rabid Badger]

Here are two pictures of my lightly used Kleins. One being held loosely and the other with normal cutting force being applied to the handles.

I think we can take two things away from this:

1) The gap isn't an accident.

2) The gap won't have the slightest impact on their cutting ability.

 

[davewo]

I imagine the gap is to prevent the two hardened cutting edges from unnecessarily contacting eachother everytime wire is cut. Like users have noted, the edges will meet with force, but usually these pliers are used on larger wire that shears well before the jaws close all the way.

 

[DSLTRK]

I didn't mean to cause an argument.

I've emailed Klein with that picture, we'll see what they say.

Somebody on an electrician forum did and here was Klein's response:

"If you are not squeezing the handles then this is normal. We design the knives to make first contact at the hinge and require a moderate amount of force to 'close the gap.' This is deliberate so that as the knives wear away near the hinge, you don't lose cutting ability due to the knives making first contact at the far end of the blade."

What a surprise.

try folding it over so youre cutting 2 thicknesses not just one
dont know why it works but it does

Good tip, I'll try that next time.

 

[mr.lemons]

https://www.kleintools.com/blog/cutting-edge-breakthrough-begins-klein-pliers

'This gap in your pliers’ cutting jaw actually has a purpose of its own.'

Was posted in the above link earlier, I think no one read it, and yes it was a surprise.

 

[DSLTRK]

'This gap in your pliers’ cutting jaw actually has a purpose of its own.'

Was posted in the above link earlier, I think no one read it, and yes it was a surprise.

I saw that, but they didn't really explain why or what purpose the gap existed.

 

[mr.lemons]

I saw that, but they didn't really explain why or what purpose the gap existed.

True. If it works then it's sounds like a great feature. Wonder why it is not replicated in other brands. Problem is that now we are going to worry when our pliers don't have a gap.

 

[manwithtools]

It sounds like a manufacturer spinning a manufacturing flaw / variable into a "feature".

 

[kctyphoon]

Somebody on an electrician forum did and here was Klein's response:

"If you are not squeezing the handles then this is normal. We design the knives to make first contact at the hinge and require a moderate amount of force to 'close the gap.' This is deliberate so that as the knives wear away near the hinge, you don't lose cutting ability due to the knives making first contact at the far end of the blade."

What a surprise.




Good tip, I'll try that next time.

Imagine that..
glad i went with NWS. jk

I’ll have to agree with the ‘feature’ theory. Sounds a lot like ‘these torx bits are designed to break or bend before damaging the fastener’ features..

Someone should ask Klein if their lineman pliers are designed to double as a hand exerciser too, and thats why the joints are so hard to move.. lol

 

[DSLTRK]

True. If it works then it's sounds like a great feature. Wonder why it is not replicated in other brands. Problem is that now we are going to worry when our pliers don't have a gap.

Oh it works very well and I can testify to it.

IDK why Channellock or the cheaper imports don't do it. I've worn out the Channellock linemans and the gap shows up between the inside edges of the shears, incidentally the most important area for cutting. Once that happens, the pliers are worthless for cutting smaller conductors.

 

[kctyphoon]

Oh it works very well and I can testify to it.

IDK why Channellock or the cheaper imports don't do it. I've worn out the Channellock linemans and the gap shows up between the inside edges of the shears, incidentally the most important area for cutting. Once that happens, the pliers are worthless for cutting smaller conductors.

........ or the expensive imports.

 

[manwithtools]

Oh it works very well and I can testify to it.

IDK why Channellock or the cheaper imports don't do it. I've worn out the Channellock linemans and the gap shows up between the inside edges of the shears, incidentally the most important area for cutting. Once that happens, the pliers are worthless for cutting smaller conductors.

........ or the expensive imports.

Or the decades old domestic manufacturers .....

 

[DSLTRK]

Or the decades old domestic manufacturers .....

Like Western Forge? Just because it's been done that way for decades doesn't mean it's the best way. The Klein method is a relatively new process in manufacturing, implemented in the 90s I believe.

I really don't think you'll understand until you use a pair of pliers thousands of times like I have in my trade..........

Here's a lightly used pair of Craftsman pliers where the shears met evenly when they were new. Now they have gaps from me using them and the pivot breaking in. I'm just shocked....



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[manwithtools]

Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better either. You make a big assumption to think I don't have pliers with thousands of cycles on them.

I used to be in the trades too. I've got Utica pliers that my dad handed down to me from the twenty's / thirties that have cut more wire than I could begin to calculate. They don't have that style cutting surface and they work just fine today cutting fine gauge wire. It's all subjective, but if you like the way they work, more power to you.

I'd take a picture of them, but I've handed them down to my son recently.