Lighting replacement advice request

[Dirtmerchant]

Long time lurker first time poster here...

I have a concrete block building with the following specs that I need to replace the lighting in due to intermittent functioning of the old lights.

Sketch attached but not exactly to scale

Existing fixtures: T12 8' by 2 60W bulbs installed in 2002 roughly 7' from walls with about 6' from end to end and 13' between rows

Exterior building measurements: 50'x55'

Construction: CBS Block

Interior finish: Textured stucco finish painted light tan

Ceiling: 14' from finish floor, open unpainted truss

Floor: Painted medium tan

Doors: 2@ 12'x12' 1@ 14'x12' all three overhead with operators on ceiling

Ceiling fans: 4 shop ceiling fans as shown

This garage is used for storage of toys, our home CrossFit gym along the west wall, repairs with a motorcycle lift and bench along the east wall next to bathroom. I want the best light as reasonably possible but they need to be frosted as clear tubes cause spots in my eyes. Also, I'd prefer to keep the same housings as they are installed straight and as a one man show working on an extension ladder I'd probably never get them aligned so that I'm happy with them, yes, I'm a bit fastidious...

All electric was professionally installed and is in conduit back in 2002 and nothing done except replace a couple bulbs. I am having an issue where occasionally all fixtures will work but more often than not a few will come on. I have checked the wiring and I am unable to find any issues that is causing this other than age as it worked perfectly for 15-years....

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Pics

 

[cybrdyke]

Retrofit 8' fixtures with tandem kit. This will eliminate the 2 x 8' tube and change it into 4 x 4' tubes. These kits are available with or without new channel covers, your choice. A good example is TechBrite R844SSBCXX-00P0-WOE. Use "double end" powered tubes in 2000-2500 lumens, 5000K. An example is Universal T8LAC4F18/850.
It's easy to do, uses the wires that you have in the conduit, and will last extremely well. You'll reduce energy from roughly 140 watts to 72 watts. No more flicker or hum.
Good luck,
CD

 

[BigGarage]

Existing fixtures: T12 8' by 2 60W bulbs installed in 2002 roughly 7' from walls with about 6' from end to end and 13' between rows

All electric was professionally installed and is in conduit back in 2002 and nothing done except replace a couple bulbs. I am having an issue where occasionally all fixtures will work but more often than not a few will come on. I have checked the wiring and I am unable to find any issues that is causing this other than age as it worked perfectly for 15-years....

What is your question? Are you looking for advice on a whole new lighting system or are you looking for tips on what would be the reason for some of your lights sometimes not working? Or both?

Regarding the lights not always working, they are 17 years old and the ballast has probably gone bad in the inoperative ones. I have the same lights (2 pairs) and the ballast went bad on one 2 years ago. I went to HD and found a replacement. It didn't cost much. My lights were only about 5 years old when the ballast went out.

Dennis

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Retrofit 8' fixtures with tandem kit. This will eliminate the 2 x 8' tube and change it into 4 x 4' tubes. These kits are available with or without new channel covers, your choice. A good example is TechBrite R844SSBCXX-00P0-WOE. Use "double end" powered tubes in 2000-2500 lumens, 5000K. An example is Universal T8LAC4F18/850.
It's easy to do, uses the wires that you have in the conduit, and will last extremely well. You'll reduce energy from roughly 140 watts to 72 watts. No more flicker or hum.
Good luck,
CD

@cybrdyke, Thank you for the input, that is what I was leaning towards from reading other posts but wanted to be sure I was on the right track.

If anyone has links to tried and true vendors and products for the tubes retrofit kits they care to share would be appreciated.

What is your question? Are you looking for advice on a whole new lighting system or are you looking for tips on what would be the reason for some of your lights sometimes not working? Or both?

Regarding the lights not always working, they are 17 years old and the ballast has probably gone bad in the inoperative ones. I have the same lights (2 pairs) and the ballast went bad on one 2 years ago. I went to HD and found a replacement. It didn't cost much. My lights were only about 5 years old when the ballast went out.

Dennis

@BigGarage, Good point and yes to both. With regard to the intermittent fixtures: I have swapped in a new ballast and bulbs on a couple fixtures but it didn't solve the intermittent problem. I have checked connections at sub panels, switches and etc. I found one 220v 3 wire connector in an exterior box and replaced that to no avail. There is one fixture that will normally come on, at least partially, sometimes one tube sometimes two. Other times I'll get six or so that come on partially and other times they all come on instantly. I don't see any correlation to previous use, ambient temperature or humidity.

At this point I am leaning towards swapping everything out for LED hoping that in the process I'll re-secure all marretes in the event there is some oxidation that is causing this, the LED replacements won't have the same problem. If so, I'll have to call in a pro.

I appreciate the reply and any further input.

Rod

 

[SGKent]

I have swapped in a new ballast and bulbs on a couple fixtures but it didn't solve the intermittent problem.

If the ballast is new and the correct one, and the bulbs are new and the correct ones, and that fixture fails to come on, then replacing with a LED bulb is not going to solve the problem.

 

[BigGarage]

Existing fixtures: T12 8' by 2 60W bulbs installed in 2002 roughly 7' from walls with about 6' from end to end and 13' between rows

All electric was professionally installed and is in conduit back in 2002 and nothing done except replace a couple bulbs. I am having an issue where occasionally all fixtures will work but more often than not a few will come on. I have checked the wiring and I am unable to find any issues that is causing this other than age as it worked perfectly for 15-years....

@BigGarage, Good point and yes to both. With regard to the intermittent fixtures: I have swapped in a new ballast and bulbs on a couple fixtures but it didn't solve the intermittent problem. I have checked connections at sub panels, switches and etc. I found one 220v 3 wire connector in an exterior box and replaced that to no avail. There is one fixture that will normally come on, at least partially, sometimes one tube sometimes two. Other times I'll get six or so that come on partially and other times they all come on instantly. I don't see any correlation to previous use, ambient temperature or humidity.

At this point I am leaning towards swapping everything out for LED hoping that in the process I'll re-secure all marretes in the event there is some oxidation that is causing this, the LED replacements won't have the same problem. If so, I'll have to call in a pro.

I appreciate the reply and any further input.

Rod

If the ballast is new and the correct one, and the bulbs are new and the correct ones, and that fixture fails to come on, then replacing with a LED bulb is not going to solve the problem.

Wow Dirtmerchant you made me Google "marretes"

I definitely agree with SGKent here.

I'm going to toss a couple of far out ideas out there for you.

First, are you certain there is no aluminum wire in the lighting fixtures or anywhere in the circuits feeding them? Aluminum expands and contracts when it gets warm and cold possibly leading to a loose connection and maybe randomly making contact and then losing it. As I said, it's not likely but possible.

Another idea is this; I knew a guy who when connecting wires with a wire nut (marrete) would simply put the 2 wires next to each other and twist the wire nut around them rather than twisting the wires together and then adding the wire nut. Obviously this could also cause intermittent connection loss and also presents a sparking and fire possibility. You may need to remove each wire nut to confirm they are done properly.

Are all of your lights on the same circuit? Are the fans and the door openers on the same circuit as the lights? This could be relevant to a more knowledgeable person than me.

I used to have a dual 4' fluorescent fixture that had a pull-chain on it. When I turned it on it usually wouldn't work until I turned some other lights on with it. I never did find out why but as soon as I would turn other fluorescent lights on it would come on. I just worked around it as I didn't use the light that much.

I wish I could think of any more to help you.

Dennis

 

[Dirtmerchant]

If the ballast is new and the correct one, and the bulbs are new and the correct ones, and that fixture fails to come on, then replacing with a LED bulb is not going to solve the problem.

@SGKent, I've thought the same thing at least a hundred times. The way I look at it the T12's are at the end of their life span and a conversion is inevitable and hoping I can figure out the intermittent issue; two birds one stone approach.... :lol

Wow Dirtmerchant you made me Google "marretes"

I definitely agree with SGKent here.

I'm going to toss a couple of far out ideas out there for you.

First, are you certain there is no aluminum wire in the lighting fixtures or anywhere in the circuits feeding them? Aluminum expands and contracts when it gets warm and cold possibly leading to a loose connection and maybe randomly making contact and then losing it. As I said, it's not likely but possible.

Another idea is this; I knew a guy who when connecting wires with a wire nut (marrete) would simply put the 2 wires next to each other and twist the wire nut around them rather than twisting the wires together and then adding the wire nut. Obviously this could also cause intermittent connection loss and also presents a sparking and fire possibility. You may need to remove each wire nut to confirm they are done properly.

Are all of your lights on the same circuit? Are the fans and the door openers on the same circuit as the lights? This could be relevant to a more knowledgeable person than me.

I used to have a dual 4' fluorescent fixture that had a pull-chain on it. When I turned it on it usually wouldn't work until I turned some other lights on with it. I never did find out why but as soon as I would turn other fluorescent lights on it would come on. I just worked around it as I didn't use the light that much.

I wish I could think of any more to help you.

Dennis

@BigGarage, Not gonna lie, I had to google "marretes" the first time I saw the term too, thought it was just me... :lol

As a matter of fact, the 220v feed from the house 100 amp sub-panel to my well/pool equipment pad is aluminum. it is spliced there using Polaris 3 port insulated multi-tap connectors. The waterproof box that contains the splices has a conduit running in the top to connect it to the breaker panel above it, that apparently leaked, maybe from pressure washer, and one of the 3 port connectors had rust in it. I went ahead and cut those feed cables and replaced the connector with a new one, just to be sure. I am going to follow up and do some more investigating regarding the aluminum wire.

The panel is organized, clearly labeled and tidy. The breaker is sized correctly to the load. The chap who did it had a clear sense of craftsmanship, with the ability to allow future people to understand his work and decisions. The switches are similarly wired. There is ample room in the box for his terminations, the loops around the switches are complete, and there's is enough wire in the box for you to pull out the devices. Within the ballast, you can see by the number of twists the conductors have, indicating he used a power tool to tie multiple conductors together. I've attached pics so you can see what I'm talking about.

I really appreciate everyone taking time out of their day to read and provide feedback.

Rod

 

[BigGarage]

Dirtmerchant,

Does this mean that all your inside lights for the garage are on the same circuit (#13) as the fans?

Dennis

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Dirtmerchant,

Does this mean that all your inside lights for the garage are on the same circuit (#13) as the fans?

Dennis

Yes, same circuit but separate switches in a double-gang box.

I did some more investigation with regard to aluminum wiring. All the wire 1/0 and larger in my house is aluminum. I have aluminum running from the disconnect to the main panel, aluminum running from that main to a sub panel on the exterior of the house, aluminum running to the aforementioned pool/well equipment where it is splits to copper going to an exterior panel and then copper going to the subject garage. I found all the lugs on the aluminum were slightly loose. I loosened them up fully and tightened them up, the only exception was the the main coming out of the disconnect box. I do not have properly insulated Allen wrench and didn't feel like being electrocuted..

The lights are better but still not 100%. When I turn them on, I'm getting 10 or 11 of the 11 fixtures firing, some with two tubes and some with only one tube. At this point I'm wondering if:
1. We fixed the intermittent problem and now it's just the old tubes and ballasts.
2. There is still a poor connection somewhere.
3. It's just a coincidence and tomorrow I'll get 1 out of 11 to fire....

Thanks!

Rod

 

[Bert_]

Any aluminum that is connected to a lug rated for aluminum is fine. Any feeders or services in aluminum are fine.

Slimline fluorescent usually either works or it doesn't not like rapid start that can have intermittent problems with humidity or lots of dirt on the tubes. But 2002 was well into the era of **** ballasts. Advance ballasts since at least the 90's have capacitors that slowly fail causing the lamps to be dim and flickery. If they are working properly the lamps should be nice and bright.

Tandem retrofit with GOOD led tubes is probably best if the ballasts are failing.

 

[BigGarage]

Dirtmerchant,

Does this mean that all your inside lights for the garage are on the same circuit (#13) as the fans?

Dennis

Yes, same circuit but separate switches in a double-gang box. If all of the fans work all of the time then I'd guess the problem is isolated to the lights and their fixtures/connections and not related to the circuit feeding them.

I did some more investigation with regard to aluminum wiring. All the wire 1/0 and larger in my house is aluminum. I have aluminum running from the disconnect to the main panel, aluminum running from that main to a sub panel on the exterior of the house, aluminum running to the aforementioned pool/well equipment where it is splits to copper going to an exterior panel and then copper going to the subject garage. I found all the lugs on the aluminum were slightly loose. I loosened them up fully and tightened them up, the only exception was the the main coming out of the disconnect box. I do not have properly insulated Allen wrench and didn't feel like being electrocuted..
From what I read the aluminum needs to be properly connected when mating it to copper. I'm not an electrician and cannot guide you on that. It does look like you have all copper in the garage, correct?
The lights are better but still not 100%. When I turn them on, I'm getting 10 or 11 of the 11 fixtures firing, some with two tubes and some with only one tube. At this point I'm wondering if:
1. We fixed the intermittent problem and now it's just the old tubes and ballasts. Very possible
2. There is still a poor connection somewhere. I would take a wire nut off one of the malfunctioning lights and take a good look at the connection before I spent a lot of time and money on ballasts. Confirm the connections first. Also check the endcaps and the tube ends for any abnormalities.
3. It's just a coincidence and tomorrow I'll get 1 out of 11 to fire.... Nothing is a coincidence, everything happens/or doesn't for a reason. Maybe you have ghosts. It is that time of year.

Thanks!


Rod

Dirtmerchant,

Don't give up. Remember what Sherlock Holmes used to say: "Eliminate the impossible and what you have left, however unlikely, is the answer".

There is much info online about aluminum wiring and it's pitfalls for house wiring.

While certainly not the defining info on aluminum wiring it does help to understand it.

Good luck.

Dennis

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Any aluminum that is connected to a lug rated for aluminum is fine. Any feeders or services in aluminum are fine.

Slimline fluorescent usually either works or it doesn't not like rapid start that can have intermittent problems with humidity or lots of dirt on the tubes. But 2002 was well into the era of **** ballasts. Advance ballasts since at least the 90's have capacitors that slowly fail causing the lamps to be dim and flickery. If they are working properly the lamps should be nice and bright.

Tandem retrofit with GOOD led tubes is probably best if the ballasts are failing.

@Bert, Thank you for the info, feeling more reassured about the aluminum feeds. What is odd is that sometimes they will all fire, sometimes one tube on one fixture, other times several will be on, flip the switch off and back on and different ones will come and others won't.

If I thought a good electrician could come in and fix it I'd do it in a heart beat but I think they are likely to be as befuddled as I am.

Dirtmerchant,

Don't give up. Remember what Sherlock Holmes used to say: "Eliminate the impossible and what you have left, however unlikely, is the answer".

There is much info online about aluminum wiring and it's pitfalls for house wiring.

While certainly not the defining info on aluminum wiring it does help to understand it.

Good luck.

Dennis

@BigGarage, Thanks for encouragement, needing it about now. I flipped the switch this morning and I've got one tube on one ******** fixture working...

 

[cybrdyke]

Those ballasts need to be grounded. Since there's no ground wire, they are grounded to the metal fixture body by the mounting screw that goes thru the mounting foot of the ballast. The screw needs to be in contact with metal on both the foot and the hole in the fixture body.
Sometimes, crud, paint, bugs, rust, and all kinds of nastiness can get between the threads of the mounting screw and the fixture body. This can prevent the ballast from being properly grounded.
You might wanna check there.
Also, the brass inside the sockets can corrode and so can the pins on the ends of the lamps. If you have poor electrical contact there, then you'll have weird performance.
Lastly, alot of sockets have wire ports where the wire from the ballast stabs into. These can also corrode and prevent good contact from the copper ballast wires.
CD

 

[BigGarage]

@BigGarage, Thanks for encouragement, needing it about now. I flipped the switch this morning and I've got one tube on one ******** fixture working...

As several have suggested you definitely need to inspect the ends of the bulbs and the endcaps they fit into. This problem seems so random that it's probably not the circuit but the individual fixtures and their connections. After confirmation they are all good I would change a few ballast/bulbs.

Try one thing for the hell of it; the next time all of the lights don't come on, leave them on and turn the fans on and see what happens.

Sorry I cannot help you more.

Dennis

 

[BigGarage]

Those ballasts need to be grounded. Since there's no ground wire, they are grounded to the metal fixture body by the mounting screw that goes thru the mounting foot of the ballast. The screw needs to be in contact with metal on both the foot and the hole in the fixture body.

CD

I just went out and looked at my old ballast that I replaced a couple of years ago. It is clearly written on it that it needs to be grounded. I don't remember seeing that when I replaced it but I maybe I got lucky. I have metal conduit coming to the fixture and it's all grounded. Good point about the grounds.

Dennis

 

[Platonic Solid]

50x55x14 one man show working on an extension ladder

Are you comfortable working on an extension ladder at 14'?

When the fixtures all work, are you satisfied with the amount of light?

 

[Bert_]

Slimline and other instant start ballasts will function fine without grounding. That is really only an issue with rapid start.

 

[SGKent]

I did some more investigation with regard to aluminum wiring. All the wire 1/0 and larger in my house is aluminum.

We lived in a house built about 1970 that had aluminum wiring. Electrical items failed intermittently. Years later after leaving I learned that many homes burned up because of aluminum wiring. It was not known at the time it was built that oxidization of the aluminum, and inherent softness could cause heat and bad circuits. Today there are special connectors for aluminum wires, and special pastes to put on the ends to keep them from oxidizing. Example of an article on the issue: https://www.carsondunlop.com/training/resources/the-true-story-behind-aluminum-wiring-part-one/ You indicate that this is a 1/0 and larger issue so it would probably not affect one individual circuit unless aluminum was also used on that circuit.

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Thanks for all the input.

The aluminum does have a dark paste on the connection points.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a contact cleaner that would work? I have CorrosionX which was recommended for electronics but it's pretty "oily" and will make a mess of the fixture...

While I'd prefer to have a scissor lift, I don't mind being on a ladder although it's a PITA carrying stuff up and down.

 

[exranger06]

Wow Dirtmerchant you made me Google "marretes"

I definitely agree with SGKent here.

I'm going to toss a couple of far out ideas out there for you.

First, are you certain there is no aluminum wire in the lighting fixtures or anywhere in the circuits feeding them? Aluminum expands and contracts when it gets warm and cold possibly leading to a loose connection and maybe randomly making contact and then losing it. As I said, it's not likely but possible.

I haven't heard of anyone using aluminum wiring for branch circuits after 1973 or so. There's basically zero chance someone used aluminum in 2002, when OP had the wiring installed.

Another idea is this; I knew a guy who when connecting wires with a wire nut (marrete) would simply put the 2 wires next to each other and twist the wire nut around them rather than twisting the wires together and then adding the wire nut. Obviously this could also cause intermittent connection loss and also presents a sparking and fire possibility. You may need to remove each wire nut to confirm they are done properly.

While I always try to pre-twist wires together before installing the wire nut, there is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT pre-twisting them. The wires will get twisted around each other plenty when you're screwing the wire-nut round and round them.

 

[BillK]

Dirt,
My business warehouse is 30 x 60 White painted concrete block. It had 6 8ft two bulb fixtures like yours. I have been trying to do with the lighting for a while now. I had Platonic do me a layout and everything. I decided about a month ago to just replace the tubes with LED ballast bypass tubes for starters. I really did not see any sense is tearing out all of the present fixtures which are all run with conduit.


I bought 12 of these bulbs:

https://www.rexelusa.com/usr/Root-C...Linear,-96",-43W,-Single-Pin,-5000K/p/1297095

I just finished replacing them last week and what a difference !!!! I paid a little more for them buying them locally ($23) but preferred to do that. The supply house is walking distance from my shop and if I had a problem it will be easy to deal with.

I am still going to run some more fixtures for fill in certain areas but just switching from the fluorescent to the leds made it 75% better than it was.

I would suggest you do this first. I had a scissors lift to use but a ladder wouldnt have been too much worse I think I have some pictures from before, I will try to post before and after if I have time.

 

[BigGarage]

I haven't heard of anyone using aluminum wiring for branch circuits after 1973 or so. There's basically zero chance someone used aluminum in 2002, when OP had the wiring installed.

As a matter of fact, the 220v feed from the house 100 amp sub-panel to my well/pool equipment pad is aluminum. it is spliced there using Polaris 3 port insulated multi-tap connectors. The waterproof box that contains the splices has a conduit running in the top to connect it to the breaker panel above it, that apparently leaked, maybe from pressure washer, and one of the 3 port connectors had rust in it. I went ahead and cut those feed cables and replaced the connector with a new one, just to be sure. I am going to follow up and do some more investigating regarding the aluminum wire.

I did some more investigation with regard to aluminum wiring. All the wire 1/0 and larger in my house is aluminum. I have aluminum running from the disconnect to the main panel, aluminum running from that main to a sub panel on the exterior of the house, aluminum running to the aforementioned pool/well equipment where it is splits to copper going to an exterior panel and then copper going to the subject garage. I found all the lugs on the aluminum were slightly loose. I loosened them up fully and tightened them up, the only exception was the the main coming out of the disconnect box. I do not have properly insulated Allen wrench and didn't feel like being electrocuted.

The aluminum does have a dark paste on the connection points.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a contact cleaner that would work? I have CorrosionX which was recommended for electronics but it's pretty "oily" and will make a mess of the fixture.

While I always try to pre-twist wires together before installing the wire nut, there is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT pre-twisting them. The wires will get twisted around each other plenty when you're screwing the wire-nut round and round them.

The OP has not clearly stated whether or not he has aluminum in the garage.

He does write " aluminum running to the aforementioned pool/well equipment where it is splits to copper going to an exterior panel and then copper going to the subject garage" but does not state if the inside wiring in the garage is copper. If all of his other things in the garage work properly then this probably isn't his problem anyway.

There is absolutely something wrong with putting a wire nut on the way you say is ok.

Dennis

 

[exranger06]

Yeah, I saw where he said he has aluminum in some places. I said aluminum wiring is basically unheard of for BRANCH circuits after about 1973. It's still very common for feeders, and sometimes for large 240V circuits. But a 15A or 20A 120V circuit? Nope. And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the wire nuts. Maybe there's something in the NEC that says it is or isn't OK; I don't have time to look it up right now.

 

[exranger06]

Ideal Industries says pre-twisting wires is "acceptable, but not required."
https://idealind.com/content/dam/electrical/assets/WireTermination/WireConnectors/TwistOn/WingNut/WingNut%20WireConnector%20Instructions.pdf

3M also says that pre-twisting wires is optional:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/37675O/3m-b-g-performance-wire-connector.pdf

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Thanks for the opinions and advise everyone. I have not had a chance to get back to looking at anything as I've been busy and now have an injured heel from jumping rope at the gym...

I like the bulbs @BillK linked, I have a Rexel locally and will check to see if they have access to them, the correct tombstones and the cost per fixture. I too like to buy local as shipping a couple bad tubes back will be a PITA.

The house was built in 1997, this is when the aluminum feeders were ran to the pump/pool equipment pad. There is NO aluminum beyond that feeder, none in the shop where the intermittent issue is.

I have 220V air compressor, fans, stereo, hot water heater and etc. Nothing else appears to be effected.

 

[Platonic Solid]

OT

Dirt,
My business warehouse is 30 x 60 White painted concrete block. It had 6 8ft two bulb fixtures like yours. I have been trying to do with the lighting for a while now. I had Platonic do me a layout and everything. I decided about a month ago to just replace the tubes with LED ballast bypass tubes for starters. I really did not see any sense is tearing out all of the present fixtures which are all run with conduit.


I bought 12 of these bulbs:

https://www.rexelusa.com/usr/Root-C...Linear,-96",-43W,-Single-Pin,-5000K/p/1297095

I just finished replacing them last week and what a difference !!!! I paid a little more for them buying them locally ($23) but preferred to do that. The supply house is walking distance from my shop and if I had a problem it will be easy to deal with.

I am still going to run some more fixtures for fill in certain areas but just switching from the fluorescent to the leds made it 75% better than it was.

I would suggest you do this first. I had a scissors lift to use but a ladder wouldnt have been too much worse I think I have some pictures from before, I will try to post before and after if I have time.

Dang Bill, all that work for nothing.

 

[BillK]

Re: OT

Dang Bill, all that work for nothing.

Not really. It gave me a good idea as to what I needed. I just hated to tear out all of the nice fixtures that I already had. Only took me a day to do what I did so far. Now I just have to play around with adding some more although the LED's made a huge difference as it is.

 

[Platonic Solid]

OT

BillK - OK. For quick and simple install (at additional fixture cost) you could fill in the dark spots with these 13286 Lm UFO fixtures (link). I don't recall what the selected fixture lumen output was for the final layout.

 

[BillK]

Re: OT

BillK - OK. For quick and simple install (at additional fixture cost) you could fill in the dark spots with these 13286 Lm UFO fixtures (link). I don't recall what the selected fixture lumen output was for the final layout.

I am not sure if I like the round lights ? They seem to be more localized. I had two old school High Bay lights and never liked the light from them.

I can get as many of the 8ft 2 tube fixtures like I have now for basically nothing. The LED tubes are 5550 lm each so 11,100 per fixture. That gives me 66,600 lm total right now. I have your diagram somewhere on my computer, just need to find it but I think it was 14 fixtures. Not sure what the lm per fixture was.

 

[BigGarage]

I have not had a chance to get back to looking at anything as I've been busy and now have an injured heel from jumping rope at the gym...

We'll put you on the be-back list.

Dennis

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Dirt,
My business warehouse is 30 x 60 White painted concrete block. It had 6 8ft two bulb fixtures like yours. I have been trying to do with the lighting for a while now. I had Platonic do me a layout and everything. I decided about a month ago to just replace the tubes with LED ballast bypass tubes for starters. I really did not see any sense is tearing out all of the present fixtures which are all run with conduit.


I bought 12 of these bulbs:

https://www.rexelusa.com/usr/Root-C...Linear,-96",-43W,-Single-Pin,-5000K/p/1297095

I just finished replacing them last week and what a difference !!!! I paid a little more for them buying them locally ($23) but preferred to do that. The supply house is walking distance from my shop and if I had a problem it will be easy to deal with.

I am still going to run some more fixtures for fill in certain areas but just switching from the fluorescent to the leds made it 75% better than it was.

I would suggest you do this first. I had a scissors lift to use but a ladder wouldnt have been too much worse I think I have some pictures from before, I will try to post before and after if I have time.

UPDATE:

I'm done screwing around with the fluorescents... Just ordered 24 of the Keystone tubes and new tombstones from Rexal.

@BillK, Thanks for the link! Any pics of your install?

Rod

 

[Platonic Solid]

Not a bad plan - I like that you can rotate the bulb in the Fa8 socket giving some beam direction control. I've heard some comment on the 8ft bulb sagging in the middle. Any comment on that might be helpful to someone.

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Not a bad plan - I like that you can rotate the bulb in the Fa8 socket giving some beam direction control. I've heard some comment on the 8ft bulb sagging in the middle. Any comment on that might be helpful to someone.

@Platonic Solid, The cutsheet for these lamps state that they come with 2 C-Clips to be installed with the lamps into the fixture ballast cover to prevent any potential un-desired lamp twisting or sagging.

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Thanks again to everyone that gave me input. I'm done with my conversion and it turned out great. The attached pics show the difference between the Florescent tubes on the left and the LED's on the right but frankly the pics don't do it justice; the difference his HUGE!!!

As I posted in my other thread regarding the tombstone wiring. I salvaged the 18 gauge wires from the ballasts and cut them into 6" sections. The R17d tombstones require two wires to each tombstone, those were then connected to the supply on one end and neutral on the opposite end. Since the lights are mounted at about 14' and I was working off an extension ladder instead of scaffolding, I did all the wiring on my bench including drilling the bridge bracket in the center of the fixture to attach the support C-Clamps. While it took a little longer to replace all the tombstones, I was having intermittent issues and wanted to eliminate any possible problem areas. There were a couple glitches along the way, it was nothing I couldn't figure out on my own.

 

[BigGarage]

I'm glad the new lighting worked out for you.

Dennis

 

[Dirtmerchant]

Not a bad plan - I like that you can rotate the bulb in the Fa8 socket giving some beam direction control. I've heard some comment on the 8ft bulb sagging in the middle. Any comment on that might be helpful to someone.

Follow Up:

I didn't notice any appreciable sag when I installed the 8'ers but I did install the C-Clips to be on the safe side.

 

[Dirtmerchant]

UPDATE:

It has been 30-days since I finished the install of the new Keystone bulbs and replacement tombstones. All bulbs are running perfectly and I have not experienced any of the intermittent lighting issues that I was initially dealing with.