MN Electrical Panel Upgrade - Is this to code?

[Kaoskido]

So I hired an Electrician to remove my old maxed out service panel and not-to-code sub-panel and replace it with a new 42 slot panel.

The guy doing the work for the Electrician said they would need to change the main lines that come in from the meter to the new panel since the old lines were not long enough to reach.

The best I can describe how they come in is --- the electric is underground, comes up to the house up the wall into a meter box and there is another meter box that then goes down the wall through elbows into the basement and then into the service panel.

They spliced the main line coming as shown in these photos.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So he used polaris connectors to splice new wire?

Is there a disconnect below the meter before this panel?

Damn that panel is a mess for being new.

 

[Kaoskido]

So he used polaris connectors to splice new wire?

Is there a disconnect below the meter before this panel?

Damn that panel is a mess for being new.

I don't know what those connectors are called - I have no electrical background. I don't believe there is a disconnect as you mention but maybe you'll know that after looking at the photos.

Shouldn't have even taken the panel off but I am getting a bit frustrated when I am told one thing and then the story changes, etc.

 

[Kaoskido]

I should have caveted this thread since it seems to have nothing to do with "garage" -- it started out on this thread - https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432447

I hired the Electrician to get rid of the old maxed out panel and not-to-code sub-panel a prior owner installed, put in the new 42 slot panel and then run the needed feed into my garage and install a sub-panel in the garage to feed a few more 110v outlets, 240v outlet for an electric heater and then also install a line to the north side of my garage for a 240v line/ A/C disconnect for a heat pump I was going to hire to have installed into the garage.

 

[rlitman]

That makes more sense now. So he wanted to change the lines from the meter pan, but gave up, because you deck is blocking the LB cover, so instead, he used Polaris connectors to make up for the few inches in length missing, and accidentally left the LB open.

The deck is the problem, and really should be cut back to give proper access to the LB.

 

[Kaoskido]

You can look at it however you want. I personally don't see the deck as "the problem" because it needs to be replaced and when he was checking the LB I specifically told him I would trim the corner off for access.

I should note that I am working with two people from this company - the main guy who runs the business and then one of his workers. The worker said so and so "he's OCD and I will need to change the main lines".... then we went out and looked at the LB, etc.

This was all under the premise that it was going to be completed on Tuesday this past week. However, after the panel was done I guess the worker left in a hurry at 3pm. The main guy said we will move our Wednesday work and come back.

No show on Wednesday
No show on Thursday
This morning get an email (no phone call) asking to come back on the 8th.

When I replied back I had made the decision I just want the work completed (forget the garage work after how unreliable they are) and said that I was of the understanding they only needed to come back to run the new main lines and then document each circuit.

His reply back was no the main lines are "good" we can come on Tuesday the 5th to mark the circuits.

He didn't once question why now I don't want the garage work done..... the electrical work I wanted in the garage is how it all started.

 

[Jim greengo]

Pretty sloppy looking work overall from what I see,but splicing service wires inside of panel is legal.

 

[BD1]

I hope you didn’t pay him. That looks like a non union half *** contractor for sure. Call local building zoning electrical inspector and ask him to come out. Good luck


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[Bert_]

Panel swaps are almost always going to look a little sloppy. Wires are never as long as we would like.

The polaris connectors aren't a violation but for that run replacing the wire would have been easy... except for the deck blocking the LB. You said you are willing to cut back the corner on the deck but why didn't you do it?

 

[awdblazer]

that deck wouldnt be legal here , that jb needs to be accessible

 

[Kaoskido]

I didn't cut back the deck because he bailed on me and has never came back.

Deck was there when I bought the house I wouldn't have known it's a violation.

I am not asking anyone to agree with me or justify how it was left. I was merely asking about the splices in the box and if they are legal or not.

I have contacted the inspector and he will have the final say on it I guess.

Thanks for the feedback - I am just venting as yet again I can never count on a local contractor to do what they say..... in my experience.

 

[Bert_]

Why does the contractor need to be there for you to cut the deck. Get it done ahead of time or tell the guy to do it himself and he can charge accordingly.

 

[Kaoskido]

@bert_

The discussion about the LB and the run of the new lines didn't happen prior to hiring otherwise I would have - I am not some lazy sack of s@@t. It was the day of the job at the time the guy was leaving without finishing the job.

 

[Bert_]

Okay so maybe I was a bit harsh. It's easy to do this time of year. Sounds like communication was the real issue.

Either way the NEC does not prohibit splices in the service meaning it's ok. Doesn't mean we like it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I hope you didn’t pay him. That looks like a non union half *** contractor for sure. Call local building zoning electrical inspector and ask him to come out. Good luck


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Lol union means nothing

I am union and have seen some bad work done by union guys.

 

[Jim greengo]

I hope you didn’t pay him. That looks like a non union half *** contractor for sure. Call local building zoning electrical inspector and ask him to come out. Good luck


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Now ,now no need to throw the non union card in there.

 

[BD1]

Now ,now no need to throw the non union card in there.

Union are trained PROFFESIONALS . Anyone can get get a license when to know the right people.
I've done plenty of redo work when customers think they're getting a deal with non union .
There are poor union people too but many more non union.


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[Norcal]

Union are trained PROFFESIONALS . Anyone can get get a license when to know the right people.
I've done plenty of redo work when customers think they're getting a deal with non union .
There are poor union people too but many more non union.


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Being union is no guarantee of good workmanship, lets leave the union ******* match out of it, there is only one professional electrical forum that even allows union topics or politics, all others shut it down because of the discord it sows. As to the numbers of people doing poor work, organized labor/..... is only a small part of the labor force.

 

[Jim greengo]

Union are trained PROFFESIONALS . Anyone can get get a license when to know the right people.
I've done plenty of redo work when customers think they're getting a deal with non union .
There are poor union people too but many more non union.


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Well I started out in the electricians union around 40 years ago.
We spent more time standing around drinking coffee than actually working most days it seemed.
Ran like hell 1st chance I got.
Around here all the union shops wanted was heavy commercial and industrial jobs,no residential work back in them days.
I learned a lot more at the non union shops I worked at back in the day.
When I opened my own shop I tried the union route to make it easier to get help.
They had too many rules and tried telling me I couldn't do any of the work myself.
Nobody was going to tell me what work I could do at my own shop,so after a couple years I went back to running as an open shop.
As far as anybody being able to get a license that's comedy central material there.
Sure theres plenty of licensed idiots I wouldn't trust to trust tools,but non union shops have no monopoly on idiots by any stretch of the inagination.

 

[BD1]

You guys most have some real yoyos in your area and unqualified inspectors too.



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[alfredeneuman]

there is only one professional electrical forum that even allows union topics or politics.

.....and the one that does has rules against any remarks pro or con .

They have a whole section of the Forum for Union Members to discuss union issues.

 

[Terry D]

Union are trained PROFFESIONALS . Anyone can get get a license when to know the right people.
I've done plenty of redo work when customers think they're getting a deal with non union .
There are poor union people too but many more non union.


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I have worked union and have worked non union, both have good electricians and bad electricians. I have work for myself as a electrical contractor for the last 17 years, and I am non union and take much pride in my work. As far as your thinking about its easy to get a license if you know the right people, you are full of ****. It might have been like that in the old days, but not anymore. I worked very hard to get my license, and respect them very much

 

[BD1]

I can't see a qualified Electrican working nonunion. Why would you when you can make big $$, full pension, health and wealth, and 401K.
Your location may vary.
Currently the employer pays $8.00 into the 401 K. Yep an hour and we can add to meet maximum.



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[Jim greengo]

I still make a lot more even being semi retired ,just doing small service calls than union scale .

 

[BD1]

I still make a lot more even being semi retired ,just doing small service calls than union scale .

Sure you can. What about pension, 401K, and full health care.


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[Bert_]

I have no interest in working for a union. If I hire a contractor I will always choose an independent over a union.

Many union employees seem like they don't really care about the customer. Just want to justify their own job. Making projects take longer than necessary, standing around while someone else is working hard because "that's not my job description". I know a guy who was a union supervisor for a while. He got chewed out for unboxing some fixtures when he was in between rounds. They claimed he was "taking someone else's job".

I just cannot understand that mentality.

Sorry to anyone here that is union. I'm sure like anything there are good employees and bod ones. What I have seen has left me with a bad opinion.

 

[Jim greengo]

Sure you can. What about pension, 401K, and full health care.


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I've got my own pension handled,didnt need a union bigshot getting rich off of me.

 

[Jim greengo]

I have no interest in working for a union. If I hire a contractor I will always choose an independent over a union.

Many union employees seem like they don't really care about the customer. Just want to justify their own job. Making projects take longer than necessary, standing around while someone else is working hard because "that's not my job description". I know a guy who was a union supervisor for a while. He got chewed out for unboxing some fixtures when he was in between rounds. They claimed he was "taking someone else's job".

I just cannot understand that mentality.

Sorry to anyone here that is union. I'm sure like anything there are good employees and bod ones. What I have seen has left me with a bad opinion.

Exactly.

 

[BD1]

I've got my own pension handled,didnt need a union bigshot getting rich off of me.

No Union bigshot getting rich. A independent mutal fund handles everything.
Real union USA wide. Not some little hole in the wall in a hick town.


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[wyliesdiesels]

Your pro union propaganda doesnt hold water. You logic is flawed! And before you discount my experience, I am a member of my local IBEW and Ive worked on union and non union crews...

Save the union ******* match for somewhere else...

Union are trained PROFFESIONALS. Anyone can get get a license when to know the right people.
I've done plenty of redo work when customers think they're getting a deal with non union .
There are poor union people too but many more non union.


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Union workers are not the only trained PROFESSIONALS...

Anyone CANNOT get a license especially if the process is anything like california's process. Employment records, W2 tax filings, and supervisor references are all checked. If they dont pan out then the applicant is not eligible to sit for the trade and law tests. You clearly have no clue what youre talking about.

You guys most have some real yoyos in your area and unqualified inspectors too.

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Theres yoyos in every trade in every area- both union and non union alike. Theres also lots of unqualified inspectors in most every area. Tell me something i dont know.

I can't see a qualified Electrician working nonunion. Why would you when you can make big $$, full pension, health and wealth, and 401K.
Your location may vary.
Currently the employer pays $8.00 into the 401 K. Yep an hour and we can add to meet maximum.

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Ive seen lots of qualified electrician working non-union. A union does not make someone qualified. Ive also seen plenty of unqualified union yahoos working on union jobs.

Sorry but my experience working in the union and what Ive seen trumps your verbal diarrhea...

 

[rburke65]

I worked 11+ years for a nonunion contractor. In 11+ years if your was slow, he would have us work on his rental units.....never laid off. That meant a lot to us.

 

[Jim greengo]

No Union bigshot getting rich. A independent mutal fund handles everything.
Real union USA wide. Not some little hole in the wall in a hick town.


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What kind of money are the big shots at the union hall pulling in?
Where does their money come from?
The dues you and everybody else pays in,and kick backs from companies they put the screws to.

 

[Jim greengo]

I worked 11+ years for a nonunion contractor. In 11+ years if your was slow, he would have us work on his rental units.....never laid off. That meant a lot to us.

 

[ard]

S

They spliced the main line coming as shown in these photos.

Am I nuts? Or did someone delete the pictures?!?

 

[Norcal]

Am I nuts? Or did someone delete the pictures?!?

The OP did edit the posts.

 

[yatg]

The OP did edit the posts.

Maybe he got tired of the union whizzing match and went elsewhere.

 

[Kaoskido]

Yeah the union stuff I didn't follow... this guy is not a union guy ....

The MN State Electrical Inspector is coming today ... says those connections per the photos I sent him are to code.

I'm just frustrated with the electrician I hired. His worker said the main lines needed to be replaced and the splices were temporary.

However, since they never finished the full job and just disappeared last Wednesday I reached out to the inspector after getting an email from the main guy of the electrical company saying now that the splices can stay, etc.

His worker shouldn't say one thing and he says something entirely different, etc.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well the wire they used looks smaller than the original service entrance wire so i would verify the gauges of both.

 

[Kaoskido]

I guess we will see what the state guy has to say.

I understand he is going to be a neutral party to my complaint with the electrician I hired and he's only concerned with the work being to code and there are no safety or fire hazards, etc.

He asked if the work was complete and I said no, so I am not sure why he's even coming today but whatever.

 

[rlitman]

Well the wire they used looks smaller than the original service entrance wire so i would verify the gauges of both.

Modern THHN insulation is much thinner than what's on that old wire, and I'm betting that's where the difference is. But I agree that it is worth verifying.