Cat6 and RG6 to Detached Pole Barn - Need help

[GRivera]

My pole barn is about 180' from house and although it has a 100 amp subpanel that gets power from a breaker in main house panel, the power-line network option did not work for me - no connection established at all.

So I'm gonna run a 1 inch conduit with RG6 and Cat6 (future proof). At the main house, I have Verizon FIOS Internet/Cable/Phone. The wireless modem is on main level of house. The FIOS utility box (ONT) comes into main house via attached garage in area where main fuse panel is.

I plan to run the RG6 to the area where the FIOS comes into main house garage and use splitter for connection. However, because the only ethernet connection I have is at the modem, I'm not sure where I should connect the Cat6. The FIOS ONT Box converts Fiber optic to the Coaxial running throughout my house for cable TV service. It's my understanding one doesn't have a choice to also have a cat6 connection/ethernet from the ONT when subscribing to cable service. Instead, one gets ethernet from the modem which has a coaxial port and ethernet ports.

Should I use a patch panel like this in the attached garage: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UVQI8B6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Then use a swithplate like this on wall where modem is and run a line to the patch panel - and then a line from patch panel to the pole barn? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KWOBCD2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Am I overthinking this?

 

[Augus7us]

Patch panels are typically used for terminating your cat5/6 drops. From there you would connect them to a switch which would go to your router.

Here is how I'm doing it. I don't have fios, only a cable modem. I use all my own gear and scrapped the junk spectrum provides customers.

Cable from the pole -> my modem in the house -> my switch/router in the house -from here I have a line in conduit to my shop -> this will go to another router setup as a wifi AP and switch -> my patch panel like you listed -> to ports in the wall and ceiling (rj45) -> laptop/camera's/etc

I'm not clear on what you have. Do you have a modem that is converting the coax from the ONT to ethernet at the modem and then to your PC or whatever?

 

[GRivera]

My house was built in 94 and coaxial run throughout.

FIOS comes up to the house and the Optical Network Terminal (ONT) outside of house converts the optical signal into separate data/voice/TV signal and into the coaxial. My modem, which has a coaxial input and output ports, as well as ethernet input and output ports, is connected to one of the coaxial switch plates in my house. The ethernet ports on the modem are active. The modem also provides a Wifi internet signal.

The ONT also has an ethernet port option but if one chooses it, the cable won't work. Further, in order to use the ethernet option from the ONT, a FIOS tech has to come out to enable it. Hope this makes sense...

 

[sld961]

Have you looked into a wireless point to point system? Probably cheaper than hard line and conduit?

Also, did you try the powerline adapter on receptacles right next to the panel? Did you try switching one of the circuits to a different leg of the 220v? If they're on different legs, or if there's too much resistance/length, it won't work.

I used a power line adapter for my barn and it took a couple trys to get it to work.



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[GRivera]

Have you looked into a wireless point to point system? Probably cheaper than hard line and conduit?

Also, did you try the powerline adapter on receptacles right next to the panel? Did you try switching one of the circuits to a different leg of the 220v? If they're on different legs, or if there's too much resistance/length, it won't work.

I used a power line adapter for my barn and it took a couple trys to get it to work.


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I thought about the wireless point to point but don't want to put the box outside the house. Also, I already bought the RG6 and the CAT6 and will run it myself so only price of trencher and materials.

I tried the powerline adapter on several different outlets directly by the panel in the barn and the other in the next room over from the main panel - didn't even get a slight signal. I tried both in the house and they worked great.

 

[ltusler]

Are you certain that the powerline adaptors were on the same leg of the power?

 

[crazybrit]

Yes. Use that rj45 punchdown block (Amazon link). Mount it wherever you intend to mount the ethernet switch (that you'll also need to buy). Run ethernet from the ONT to the switch and from the punchdown(s) to the switch. Consider a switch with a couple of poe ports if you also want to power wifi access points.

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[GRivera]

Are you certain that the powerline adaptors were on the same leg of the power?

That I don't know as I didn't realize the receiver will only see one leg?

Yes. Use that rj45 punchdown block (Amazon link). Mount it wherever you intend to mount the ethernet switch (that you'll also need to buy). Run ethernet from the ONT to the switch and from the punchdown(s) to the switch. Consider a switch with a couple of poe ports if you also want to power wifi access points.

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If I use ethernet from the ONT I will lose the cable in the house.

 

[crazybrit]

If I use ethernet from the ONT I will lose the cable in the house.

I thought you said you could have provider enable both. Else there must be some external coax to ethernet adaptor available. Else that's an incredibly impractical system.

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[GRivera]

I thought you said you could have provider enable both. Else there must be some external coax to ethernet adaptor available. Else that's an incredibly impractical system.

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From all the research I've done, it's one or the other from FIOS. That being said, I plan on calling them in next couple of days to get direct answer.

 

[crazybrit]

From all the research I've done, it's one or the other from FIOS. That being said, I plan on calling them in next couple of days to get direct answer.

so the wireless modem is coax input and wifi only? No ethernet?

 

[GRivera]

so the wireless modem is coax input and wifi only? No ethernet?

The modem has ethernet capability.

Here is my original inquiry -

I plan to run the RG6 to the area where the FIOS comes into main house garage and use splitter for connection. However, because the only ethernet connection I have is at the modem, I'm not sure where I should connect the Cat6. The FIOS ONT Box converts Fiber optic to the Coaxial running throughout my house for cable TV service. It's my understanding one doesn't have a choice to also have a cat6 connection/ethernet from the ONT when subscribing to cable service. Instead, one gets ethernet from the modem which has a coaxial port and ethernet ports.

Should I use a patch panel like this in the attached garage: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...tronics&sr=1-4

Then use a swicthplate like this on wall where modem is and run a line to the patch panel - and then a line from patch panel to the pole barn? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SCWN3EIY&psc=1

Am I overthinking this?

 

[drsung]

For just a single additional drop I wouldn't worry about a patch panel. I would just put a plate like in the link below and run a single Cat6 out to the barn with no extra connections at the wall plates.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00193U3O0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[crazybrit]

The modem has ethernet capability.

If you cannot get ethernet over power cable to work and you cannot get them to enable coax and rj45 on the ONT then ...

Move the modem next to the ONT.

Run the cat6 (garage via conduit) to this location.

If the garage/conduit drop is only ethernet drop you need, crimp an rj45 connector onto cat6 and plug into modem.

If you need more drops than there are rj45 connectors on the modem get the patch panel and a switch. And install both at same location as ONT.

If wireless signal isn't good with the modem moved next to ONT, run new cat6 run(s) to your desired location for external wifi access point(s). Consider a switch with a couple of poe ports to power them.


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[crazybrit]

Mispost

 

[sweetk30]

i got a 150ft pre made cat6 or 6a cable ? ? i forget exact . . pulled it thew the cable/phone 1" conduit and plugged it in my router and then to shop computer . doing great now almost 4 years .

 

[GRivera]

If you cannot get ethernet over power cable to work and you cannot get them to enable coax and rj45 on the ONT then ...

Move the modem next to the ONT.

Run the cat6 (garage via conduit) to this location.

If the garage/conduit drop is only ethernet drop you need, crimp an rj45 connector onto cat6 and plug into modem.

If you need more drops than there are rj45 connectors on the modem get the patch panel and a switch. And install both at same location as ONT.

If wireless signal isn't good with the modem moved next to ONT, run new cat6 run(s) to your desired location for external wifi access point(s). Consider a switch with a couple of poe ports to power them.


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Letting this sink in as it sounds like a good option.

 

[jptbay]

I ran internet out to the shop about 200 feet away.

Cat 6 direct burial cable ran from main internet router in house, to a wireless access point in the shop. Done.

 

[GRivera]

I ran internet out to the shop about 200 feet away.

Cat 6 direct burial cable ran from main internet router in house, to a wireless access point in the shop. Done.

Did you connect the ethernet cable from router to a switch-plate in the wall and from that switch-plate to your garage?

 

[jptbay]

Did you connect the ethernet cable from router to a switch-plate in the wall and from that switch-plate to your garage?

No. Ran the cable directly from the router through the floor, then out an exterior wall into trench I had open to run natural gas, out to shop.

 

[Bashlin]

I ran internet out to the shop about 200 feet away.

Cat 6 direct burial cable ran from main internet router in house, to a wireless access point in the shop. Done.

I did the same except hooked up to a router in the Barn. Works great and I have a wireless camera system and multiple wi-fi devices running out there, no issues.

 

[ArcticGabe]

If you cannot get ethernet over power cable to work and you cannot get them to enable coax and rj45 on the ONT then ...

Move the modem next to the ONT.

Run the cat6 (garage via conduit) to this location.

If the garage/conduit drop is only ethernet drop you need, crimp an rj45 connector onto cat6 and plug into modem.

If you need more drops than there are rj45 connectors on the modem get the patch panel and a switch. And install both at same location as ONT.

If wireless signal isn't good with the modem moved next to ONT, run new cat6 run(s) to your desired location for external wifi access point(s). Consider a switch with a couple of poe ports to power them.


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I completely agree. This is the gold star answer.

Basically, if you are running the whole main house off WiFi, then you will just need to plug the single new ethernet cable directly into the modem. If you have a bunch of ethernet connections in the house already, then they must be already connected to a router or a switch, which is where you'd plug the new ethernet wire into, also.

 

[pmiranda]

One thing to keep in mind: at high speed the fewer the connections and junctions, the better. Data centers run 10Gbit (and home theater installs run 4K HDMI) over twisted pair by running an unbroken cable from one piece of equipment to another, so leave extra cable on each end to reach up or down to a cabinet or shelf in a useful location near a power outlet.
Having said that, in my house every phone jack was home-run with CAT5 to one closet, and I was able to replace all the wall plates and install a punchdown panel in that closet above a shelf and with patch cables I can connect every room to either a Gb switch on that shelf or the plain old telephone service we no longer use

 

[dcg9381]

I thought about the wireless point to point but don't want to put the box outside the house. Also, I already bought the RG6 and the CAT6 and will run it myself so only price of trencher and materials.

I tried the powerline adapter on several different outlets directly by the panel in the barn and the other in the next room over from the main panel - didn't even get a slight signal. I tried both in the house and they worked great.

Not knocking since you've bought materials, but I installed an ubiquiti nanostation INSIDE my house (attic) and it worked just fine to another one installed at a gate. It'll never be as fast as hardwire, but two of these things work great. If you're just doing basic internet or moderate bandwidth stuff (non-HD netflix) works great...

New place, I use a single ubiquiti nanostation, pointed at my neighbors house and uplink to her internet (nice neighbor)... But long term, I'm doing the same as you - conduit and hard-wire.

Like you, powerline adapters didn't work for me.

 

[GRivera]

So I called Verizon and the tech suggested I run coaxial and CAT6 from area of the ONT box to the barn. I will connect the coaxial via a splitter where the ONT output/coaxial for house is. The tech said I could then connect the coaxial at the barn end to a Verizon net extender that has a coaxial connection. The tech said the main router at house will communicate with the net extender and create a wifi spot. To feed a TV in the barn I would have to split the coaxial between TV and the barn net extender. https://www.verizon.com/home/MLP/extend.html

As far as the CAT6 - just leave it disconnected for future use- such as updating my service to 100+ Mbps - vs my current 75 Mbps.

Does this make sense?

 

[ard]

OP-

Id upsize to 1.5" conduit, minimum. To future proof. If you ever want fiber you can pull terminated cables through. Not saying you will, or that you should.

I ran 300ft of telco and Cat 5 years ago. In 3/4" wish I put in 1.5 now.....

 

[NUTTSGT]

So I called Verizon and the tech suggested I run coaxial and CAT6 from area of the ONT box to the barn. I will connect the coaxial via a splitter where the ONT output/coaxial for house is. The tech said I could then connect the coaxial at the barn end to a Verizon net extender that has a coaxial connection. The tech said the main router at house will communicate with the net extender and create a wifi spot. To feed a TV in the barn I would have to split the coaxial between TV and the barn net extender. https://www.verizon.com/home/MLP/extend.html

As far as the CAT6 - just leave it disconnected for future use- such as updating my service to 100+ Mbps - vs my current 75 Mbps.

Does this make sense?

Does it make sense, yes. In my book, they want to rent, sell or lease you equipment . They want to make the most they can off you and have you tied to them.

Like mentioned above (post #22) I would connect into the modem if there is a free spot or the back of the router.

If you're using one of there modem/router units, I'd take it back, trade for a modem only. Then buy your own wifi router.

 

[penright]

Why do you need the RG6?

I ran 300ft of telco and Cat 5 years ago. In 3/4" wish I put in 1.5 now.....

I agree, if you are taking the time to trench for conduit then go big. I actually ran 2", but I pulled 6 cat 6 cables. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7891502&postcount=34 The reason was for not only network reasons but also hardwire alarm sensors. Turned out to be a little overkill. All the alarm sensors connect to a keypad that is in the shop, then the keypad connects back to the alarm panel via 4 wires. Kind of cool. I have not finished it all yet. The other wires were so that I could put the cameras on their own lan. Then a couple of spares. Since then I have decided to use a smart switch (layer 3 or managed switch) to create VLANs. Our network administrator is helping me set up. I was waiting for the Ubiquiti Dream Machinehttps://store.ui.com/products/unifi-dream-machine I want my cameras not to have any access to the internet. Supposedly this can all be configured with the UniFi. We will see.

How do you see you using the lan connection? If all you want is IP connections (internet and intranet), spend a little money, and are willing to learn some networking skills then @jptbay suggestion of direct burial is not a bad option. With that one wire and two managed switches, you can build more than one VLAN. It might be a way to get started then if you outgrow it or need more low voltage wires for some other reason then do the conduit later. Also, you could add another direct burial cable.

For me the conduit was a no brainer, I threw it in the same trench for the power conduit. That why I am always telling posters who are laying power conduit to throw in a low voltage conduit also.

 

[ksarauer]

I had this same issue a few months back, and I went with the NanoStation 5AC Loco, they were cheap enough to try out (less than $100 for the pair), and they were small, not much bigger than a deck of cards. Setup was a breeze and they work great! We do a lot of media sharing throughout the house, and most the media is streamed between the house and pole barn. Pole barn has cameras too, and never have I had a hicup. Capacity is around 300 Mbps.

I'm a everything besides phones and laptops gets hardwired kinda person too. These ended up working so good, I don't think I'll run hardwires, unless I end up digging trenches for something else.

Just wanted to share my experience

 

[homelessdespot]

Your modem sounds like it is a combo unit that is the modem and wireless router combined. You should be able to plug into one of the output ethernet ports of the modem/router with the cat6 and have internet access with no setup. Do you have a laptop that you can turn wifi off and just connect to the modem/router with ethernet to check if it gives you internet access. This would be the easiest solution, you wouldn't need a patch panel, jack or anything. Just the cat6 running to the garage with a wireless access point on that end.

 

[StRacerDuke]

Here's what I did. This works great.

2 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTQB137/?tag=atomicindus08-20

1 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NXLG0W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I run the data converter off one of my network switches in the basement (my fios goes into my 24 cisco switch, then feeds the hard lines to all the rooms in the house). I tee off one of these open ports to the data converter, fiber line through conduit and into the garage, then data converter. From there I tee into another network switch (8 port POI), and run it to another wireless router, 4 - 4K POI cameras, and 3 hard line internet outlets in the garage (one for TV).

Works flawlessly. 4 cameras are part of my 8 camera system.

 

[GRivera]

Why do you need the RG6?



I agree, if you are taking the time to trench for conduit then go big. I actually ran 2", but I pulled 6 cat 6 cables. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7891502&postcount=34 The reason was for not only network reasons but also hardwire alarm sensors. Turned out to be a little overkill. All the alarm sensors connect to a keypad that is in the shop, then the keypad connects back to the alarm panel via 4 wires. Kind of cool. I have not finished it all yet. The other wires were so that I could put the cameras on their own lan. Then a couple of spares. Since then I have decided to use a smart switch (layer 3 or managed switch) to create VLANs. Our network administrator is helping me set up. I was waiting for the Ubiquiti Dream Machinehttps://store.ui.com/products/unifi-dream-machine I want my cameras not to have any access to the internet. Supposedly this can all be configured with the UniFi. We will see.

How do you see you using the lan connection? If all you want is IP connections (internet and intranet), spend a little money, and are willing to learn some networking skills then @jptbay suggestion of direct burial is not a bad option. With that one wire and two managed switches, you can build more than one VLAN. It might be a way to get started then if you outgrow it or need more low voltage wires for some other reason then do the conduit later. Also, you could add another direct burial cable.

For me the conduit was a no brainer, I threw it in the same trench for the power conduit. That why I am always telling posters who are laying power conduit to throw in a low voltage conduit also.

I may end up running a 1" conduit instead. I want RG6 in the pole barn for a television with FIOS TV service. The CAT6 is for any future needs.

I had this same issue a few months back, and I went with the NanoStation 5AC Loco, they were cheap enough to try out (less than $100 for the pair), and they were small, not much bigger than a deck of cards. Setup was a breeze and they work great! We do a lot of media sharing throughout the house, and most the media is streamed between the house and pole barn. Pole barn has cameras too, and never have I had a hicup. Capacity is around 300 Mbps.

I'm a everything besides phones and laptops gets hardwired kinda person too. These ended up working so good, I don't think I'll run hardwires, unless I end up digging trenches for something else.

Just wanted to share my experience

How far is your pole barn from the house?

Your modem sounds like it is a combo unit that is the modem and wireless router combined. You should be able to plug into one of the output ethernet ports of the modem/router with the cat6 and have internet access with no setup. Do you have a laptop that you can turn wifi off and just connect to the modem/router with ethernet to check if it gives you internet access. This would be the easiest solution, you wouldn't need a patch panel, jack or anything. Just the cat6 running to the garage with a wireless access point on that end.

I'm not against that idea. The only limitation is if I ever move the modem/router.

Here's what I did. This works great.

2 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTQB137/?tag=atomicindus08-20

1 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NXLG0W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I run the data converter off one of my network switches in the basement (my fios goes into my 24 cisco switch, then feeds the hard lines to all the rooms in the house). I tee off one of these open ports to the data converter, fiber line through conduit and into the garage, then data converter. From there I tee into another network switch (8 port POI), and run it to another wireless router, 4 - 4K POI cameras, and 3 hard line internet outlets in the garage (one for TV).

Works flawlessly. 4 cameras are part of my 8 camera system.

This is above my head!

 

[StRacerDuke]

This is above my head!

No programming or setup required. It's simple, just plug it in and it works. It's about as complicated as plugging in an electrical plug. Buy the stuff, plug it in, you have internet.

If you use Cat6, know that you are typically limited to about 300 ft in total before you run into trouble with the line being too long.

 

[ishiboo]

One thing to keep in mind: at high speed the fewer the connections and junctions, the better. Data centers run 10Gbit (and home theater installs run 4K HDMI) over twisted pair by running an unbroken cable from one piece of equipment to another, so leave extra cable on each end to reach up or down to a cabinet or shelf in a useful location near a power outlet.
Having said that, in my house every phone jack was home-run with CAT5 to one closet, and I was able to replace all the wall plates and install a punchdown panel in that closet above a shelf and with patch cables I can connect every room to either a Gb switch on that shelf or the plain old telephone service we no longer use

Data centers run 10g using patch panels, switches and routers like everybody else, it's not at all unbroken. Same with their 40gb and 100gb connections and beyond. All of that is accounted for in the Ethernet standard and is not a problem. In addition most 10 gigabit in data centers is going to be over fiber.

 

[CharlieM]

So I called Verizon and the tech suggested I run coaxial and CAT6 from area of the ONT box to the barn. I will connect the coaxial via a splitter where the ONT output/coaxial for house is. The tech said I could then connect the coaxial at the barn end to a Verizon net extender that has a coaxial connection. The tech said the main router at house will communicate with the net extender and create a wifi spot. To feed a TV in the barn I would have to split the coaxial between TV and the barn net extender. https://www.verizon.com/home/MLP/extend.html

As far as the CAT6 - just leave it disconnected for future use- such as updating my service to 100+ Mbps - vs my current 75 Mbps.

Does this make sense?

Thats how my fellow techs install it here when they can. Much easier to use the existing coax connection at the ONT then running cat6 to a router that might be non accessible. I actually have it wired in my own house like this also.

This way you will have the coax for TV when you want it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

It's my understanding one doesn't have a choice to also have a cat6 connection/ethernet from the ONT when subscribing to cable service. Instead, one gets ethernet from the modem which has a coaxial port and ethernet ports.

Without getting exotic, this is life.

Not sure what make and model modem you have, but a lot of them come with 4 ports (RJ45) on them. Use one to run your CAT6 to the garage. Think of that as a miniature patch panel.

 

[Jameseric]

My barn is also 200 feet from my house and I use power line adapters for my WiFi. I started by tapping directly into the power line serving the barn. It assured me that I had a direct connection. The adapter in the house is plugged into my router. The adapter in the barn is also plugged into a router/access point. This setup allows me to have WiFi, desktop computer and my cable channels by using a Roku stick on Xfinity. I put a 42” tv on a rolling stand so I can watch tv anyplace I want in the building. Here is a picture of my setup from the house. I added a smart switch just in case I need to reset the adapters. For me, the power line adapter was the cheapest and easiest way to go. I labeled the outlet as ungrounded. I hope this helps.